| Author |
Message |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 612
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 3:03 pm: |  |
Masterofmanystrings, I am curious why you feel the need to lay down such a detailed screed to a place which you state is in your rear view mirror. If you are not here, why should we incorporate the standards you seek? It's one thing to have a moderator who's active in the experience of the participants (which is a thankless job at times, no matter how objective and fair you try to be. I have been a moderator from the most contentious times at The Bottom Line, so I know what that's like), but to try to live up to the standards of someone who doesn't even want to be a part of the community just seems silly. Blasting out the last word and then telling everyone that you won't even discuss it isn't really all that helpful. If you feel that you really have the perfect formula for running a board like this, I would love to be a member. However, I do hope you decide to stick around here in the long run.
In fact, the whole thing seems a little blown out of proportion in that we're creating more heat around the idea of conflict instead just dealing with the small amount of conflict that we sometimes have. All in all, this is one of the best behaved boards I've seen (go check out the political sections at Gearslutz or Talkbass, if you want to see how that might play out here).
At the end of the day, this place does belong to the Wickersham's and it's awfully nice that we get to discuss what the protocol might be but it's not a democracy. The best path seems to me is for us to all behave like adults and try to keep our inflammatory political statements to ourselves (we all have them, I can be one of the worst). Sometimes they do get posted, but if we see something inflammatory, let it go. So someone takes a gratuitous swipe at Fox News. Everyone knows it's a gratuitous swipe, no matter which side of the issue you are on, so it doesn't need to be pointed out in the thread, just move on. If no one responds to gratuitous swipes, the threads stay cooler and the swiper will probably quit swiping, either out of realization that it might not have been the best thing to say, or, if they are a troll, which I don't think was the case here, they will quit trolling because all a troll seeks is reaction. If you really have to say something, take it offlist. I've done that and it always works out fine. I'm with Slawie, I'd like no changes. This board is a big house with many rooms, if you don't like the conversation in one, go to another and chances are the conversation you don't like will peter out or maybe morph to something more interesting. It's like music, some of us might not tolerate metal while others might find jazz pretentious, but it all can be played on an Alembic. If a post really bothers you, call security and move on. |
masterofmanystrings
New
Username: masterofmanystrings
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 3:41 pm: | |
... I find the first 2 of 3 posts before Toby's 2 back-to-back posts to (apparently) be a perfect illustration of the ridiculous "uptightness" here... and, at the same time, how current policy discourages many people who are NOT so uptight from being here.
"Thanks for the gratuitous swipe at "Faux News". You've just concisely demonstrated why politics have no place here."
As I read this it's hard for me to really integrate and grasp the notion that this is a serious comment... that someone actually did (and/or actually COULD)... be offended by this. I'm still not actually sure. I'm actually not sure if pas is serious or joking... though I'm interpreting the former to be the case.
If so, this is *in my opinion, from my perspective* ridiculous beyond measure. But whatever.
What I find possibly even more remarkable is Toby's quote "It is my opinion that Alembic will be by sponsoring such a subsection of the forum."
Wow. What a remarkable statement. So... allowing a section (... and JUST one section)where people can speak frankly and freely on matters of any/all importance might "hurting their corporate image." Wow. How?
I assert that assertion is preposterous. I further assert that NOT allowing AT LEAST one section in which people can speak freely without censorship speaks much more, and much more negatively.
Whatever. "You" can do whatever "you" want. "You" -as individuals, and collectively- can reason, or you can rationalize... or you can attempt to do both. Those are your options, and your only options.
You can support the one paradigm -in which case you're logically obligated to support its preconditions and requirements- or the other paradigm... or you can try and combine them and see what results you get.
In fact, it's all been done before and the results are consistent and predictible.
"You" can choose to do whatever "you" want. You have the "right" to do so. This is not in question.
But, for your own benefit and sake, KNOW what you do... and be honest about it.
Be honest about what you're debating/discussing/considering.
There are PLENTY of people who DO have the skills to engage in civil and ration discussion about the many extremely important things in the world OTHER THAN the commonality of Alembic instruments that likely initially drew most of us here. This is plain fact that can not be rationally denied.
It is also plain fact that A LOT of people -who DO/HAVE/MIGHT/WOULD/WOULD STILL come here... do so at least partially for this UNIVERSE of richness... for the fact that we can, in our communications, discuss... well, in theory, anything and everything. Why not?
For me, the notion of censoring anything anywhere is preposterous, and moreover, just plain alien. Why? You see, I don't have anything to fear. There isn't anything anyone can say that can have power over me... I learned an old rhyme about "sticks and stones" quite some time ago, and it's true.
But okay, I get that some people haven't developed or aren't willing to exercise the skills that myself and others DO have. Experience has taught me frankly that most if not such individuals are in actuality choosing to be self-limiting... but, if so, or not... that is their choice.
However, they shouldn't be limiting me.
AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. Yeah.
To be blunt, from my perspective, anyone who confesses that they are unable or unwilling to deal with open, honest, and offensive communication is confessing a profoundly disturbing and problematic condition that I can not regard in any way other than like a physical and/or mental disease, or addiction, or serious negative condition.
In such cases, I sympathize with such individuals, and hope they will choose to make the best choices to change their conditions, and I will tend to help them to the extent they're willing.
But I will never accept and will always resent the notion of them putting chains or limitations on me and others because of the negative choices they make.
If you're not up for open communication... don't engage in it. If you don't like reading something... don't. If you don't like listening to something... don't.
Censorship is about the worst in/of us... about the lowest common denominator... calling the shots and restricting the best in us.
This is a profound and important truth that can either be recognized or evaded. The consequences can also be recognized or evaded. In either case, they exist, and, though subtle, are far-reaching.
Censorship doesn't, and can't protect "us" from anything; but it can and does divide us, and subject us to different and inconsistent treatment. That's a fact, and you only need consider it to see that it is so.
I would go so far as to argue that free speech and survival go hand and hand, and advocating censorship is advocating that which is contrary to our survival and well-being.
I hold that any and all arguments -and I've heard 'em all- that we need to be protected from "offensive/free" speech are preposterous. And be clear, you can NOT separate "free" speech from "offensive" speech... nor can either of these be separated from "meaning" or "important" speech...
It's quite a thing to advocate restrictions on speech and communications; you can't do so without opening many "cans of worms" and causing many consequences.
In my opinion, only the profoundly clueless and deluded fail to grasp that these consequences and problems are not only MUCH MORE SERIOUS than the alleged "problems" censorship/restrictions on open communcation supposedly prevent... BUT are in fact far greater concerns than anything that COULD result from open communication.
Let us ask, consider, and answer the question, "what's the worst that can happen if free/uncensored speech occurs?" Well the answer, gang, is those individuals that are so self-limited by choice that they feel they must leave any sites where they see things that offend them... will leave.
In fact, this is a given that nothing can change. Including attempting to cater to them.
Again, "you" can do what "you" want. But again, you should be honest about it, and aware of the consequences.
If "you" want to allow the "lowest common demoninator"... or let's just say those that are unable or unwilling to acquire/exercise the adult skills that myself and plenty of others have to engage in open, free, uncensored, and offensive communication... and all the incredible rewards and benefits and "horrors" (I personally don't see any at all, even one) -to keep those who ARE capable of doing do from doing so... be honest about it, and realize that there are a lot of people who aren't going to come here.
Ultimately, censorship, and an environment in which free and open (and therefore "offensive") communication is forbidden... is ultimately more harmful and offensive than any supposed evil or concern it might address.
See, as part of a larger issue, what really needs to happen is that those who have the ability to reason and integrate, and rationally and civilly discuss and argue... let's say "ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING OF IMPORTANCE"... should be able to do so freely and without interference from those who can't or won't... and should be able to help those people get better (to whatever extent they're willing, and for those for which that is "not at all", that is, of course, their (sad) choice.
What should NOT happen in the world, in any way shape or form, in any arena, is for those who can and do have the ability to engage in such discourse to have their ability to do so undermined by those who choose a more limited path.
If you don't want to think, fine, but don't keep me from doing so.
If you're not up for reasoning, fine, but don't try to keep me from doing so.
If you're not up to reading things you disagree with and responding in a rational, civilized, reasoned, and adult-like manner, and communicating in an open fashion, and with all that entails and implies... don't. Your loss.
But if you support restricting others abilities to do so, you're... something bad, shameful, and something which is responsible for the harm and evil in the world.
No kidding.
The choice is up to you. But you can't escape the consequences. So be honest about it. Take the blinders off and try and look at the infinitely bigger picture than the tiny sliver "you" -those of "you" that advocate an other-than-uncensored environment- are seeing.
For my parting comment, I'll add I don't expect my words to register much here. From what I can tell, most who do or would agree with me have already left, and those who've stuck around are a self-selected bunch that does consider such an environment acceptable.
From my perspective, frankly, the place seems to be a lost cause... as far as a place I'd feel welcome and inclined to participate in. And I'm not the only one. And I've taken the time to explain in great, explicit, and clear detail, and in very reasonable terms -why this is so.
Later, folks. I don't expect to be back to post again, after this, but I'll leave the door open. I'll check in in a couple days or weeks and see if I see any indication what I've said actually registered with and meant anything to anyone, or whether it was a waste of time. My expectation that the latter will be the case (along with the expectation/possiblity that my post(s) would just plain be censored) is why I've not made this effort before. |
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy
Post Number: 702
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 3:54 pm: | |
I would not like to see the proposed "feel free to tear each other's throat out" section; I don't believe that it would take long for any acrimony generated therein to make itself felt in the rest of the forum, thus 1) ruining the whole thing and 2) casting a bad light on our gracious hosts & their business.
On the other hand, as I consider the two ugliest words in the English language to be "mandatory" and "forbidden", neither am I in favor of stricter guidelines as to political & religious references. The current guidelines ask that we refrain. For the most part we do, and that really does seem to work well most of the time; as others have pointed out, this about the most civil forum going.
Now, if you want to propose hard-and-fast rules on all-cap posting, repeatedly responding to your own posts when no one else is, making your instrument the subject of every thread, belligerent reaction to any and all disagreement, or general incoherence, that's a different matter  .
Peter |
eligilam
Advanced Member
Username: eligilam
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 4:27 pm: | |
I want to see a cage match between the_eight_string_king and hendrixclarke!
Oh, and our physicians' lounge also shows lots of Fox News...but it's mostly because Martha MacCallum is on during the lunch hour. |
ajdover
Senior Member
Username: ajdover
Post Number: 825
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 4:47 pm: | |
I remember back in the day when there were no TVs in Dr's office - only horrible Muzak. Or worse (again, back in the day) disco. But I've got to say - Fox News has some hotties! ;-) Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion ....
Alan |
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee
Post Number: 2441
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 5:11 pm: | |
I get the feeling that this thread would be better located in the miscellaneous forum. It's only been three and a half days, but it seems like most of what needs saying on this topic has been covered. I think we've come to the part of the program where Susan and Mica consider what has been said, their feelings, and the needs of Alembic. We can keep talking about it, but I don't expect we'll hear any new arguments.
-bob |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 613
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 5:38 pm: | |
My doctor's office has none of the above. Just some magazines. My dentist's office, on the other hand, is very groovy. It's got wonderful large format art books to peruse (and great paintings by my dentist's wife) and a raw food kitchen. While you wait, they bring you exquisite concoctions, sometimes desserts, to enjoy. They also offer massage and other techniques to make it a stress free visit. I've never looked forward to going to the dentist before (although the dentist is a little bit like Dr. House, although mostly with his staff and never with the patients.). |
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck
Post Number: 9291
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 5:44 pm: | |
Wow; what a great dentist office! If it wasn't so hard to get to from here. |
mike1762
Senior Member
Username: mike1762
Post Number: 533
Registered: 1-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 5:59 pm: | |
I just Googled Martha MacCallum... I'll have to start paying more attention to Fox!!! |
hb3
Senior Member
Username: hb3
Post Number: 482
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 9:11 pm: | |
"I want to see a cage match between the_eight_string_king and hendrixclarke!"
Yesssssss!!!!! |
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke
Post Number: 721
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 3:29 am: | |
The more I think about it, the more Im surprised this is even being discussed.
I mean seriously, this is first and foremost a MUSIC related forum, why on earth would someone want to bring their possibly controversial views here when there are so many better places to post those things where people go that actually WANT to read stuff like that.
A quick look at some other music related forums reveals that no politcal/social commentary section exists for the ones I saw. Likewise, a quick look at forums that cater to two of my other interests (photography and firearms), reveal that for photography none of the ones I frequent have a politcal/social forum, and for the firearms related websites, revealed that some did and some did not.
As for the issue of moderating, get over it and get used to it. As it has been said before this is a privately owned forum and as such free speech has limits here. There is another website I belong to that performs much more heavy-handed moderating than what goes on here, and I often had posts disappear without any explanation. Eventually I was banned for violation of the forum rules. It was only after that I was banned that I went back and read the rules of that forum, and realized there was a reason for their existence. I was allowed back in eventually, with the promise of complying by the rules of this PRIVATELY owned forum.
My insensitive and heavy-handed advice is that to those who dislike they way that this PRIVATELY run forum is managed, is to either acccept it as one of the many places in life that exist that have rules in place, or to start your own forum.
Peace Out |
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc
Post Number: 1183
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 3:50 am: | |
glocke..I totally agree, I am a member of a motorcycle forum, the only political items we discuss is government restrictions on motorcyclists.
All the other items are on improving your bike, bike meets, events, MotoGP, BSB & WSB race results etc.
No one in the many years I have been a member(longer than I have been a member of this forum) has ever gone down the sensitive road and upset anyone. |
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass
Post Number: 1389
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:03 am: | |
Well, I don't know if I'm a 'you' or a 'we', but I just wanted to talk about Alembics and musical pursuits. I always viewed this as a small escape from politics and religion and so forth.
I've always felt like the little scene from 'Crocodile Dundee': If I have an opinion about such things, who's gonna hear it way out here?
J o e y |
jbybj
Advanced Member
Username: jbybj
Post Number: 289
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:42 am: | |
I played my bass yesterday with other friends/musicians. No one censored a single note. I was free to express myself in any way I chose. It was the perfect forum for my free an unfettered expression. It felt GREAT.
I'll keep coming here as long as I'm allowed. I like it here. |
mario_farufyno
Senior Member
Username: mario_farufyno
Post Number: 440
Registered: 9-2008
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:56 am: | |
Did I missed something? |
malthumb
Senior Member
Username: malthumb
Post Number: 470
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 6:23 pm: | |
I would have posted in this thread sooner, but I got too engaged in a debate on neckthru vs set neck over at wallstreetjournal.com. Can't believe how little those yahoos know about sustain. |
ajdover
Senior Member
Username: ajdover
Post Number: 826
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 6:56 pm: | |
James - awesome! And those over there do indeed know little about sustain! ;-)
Alan
(Message edited by ajdover on May 10, 2010) |
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver
Post Number: 2688
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:01 pm: | |
DUDE! How long was I out?!
OO |
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck
Post Number: 9304
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:25 pm: | |
Not more than a couple hours. |
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck
Post Number: 9305
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:28 pm: | |
LOL!
Hi Olie! |
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver
Post Number: 2693
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:31 pm: | |
Sure seemed longer.
Hi Dave! I missed ya'll!
OO |
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck
Post Number: 9306
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 8:44 pm: | |
We've missed you too! |
serialnumber12
Senior Member
Username: serialnumber12
Post Number: 728
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 4:17 am: | |
Olie???................Malthumb??? |
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq
Post Number: 4413
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 6:56 am: | |
Olie:
I've been wondering where you've been. Welcome back!
Bill, tgo |
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus
Post Number: 926
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 6:59 am: | |
Good to see you Olie! |
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver
Post Number: 2694
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 8:00 am: | |
Thanks guys, I've just been REAL busy!
OO |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 622
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 9:07 am: | |
It's a reunion! That makes all of this worth it.
Welcome back! |
xlrogue6
Intermediate Member
Username: xlrogue6
Post Number: 166
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 9:10 am: | |
The solution to all this is so blindingly obvious! Everyone should just think exactly like I do and then you'd all be right. To achieve this blissful state of enlightenment, just have Paypal transfer your entire life savings into my account (if they haven't done it already) and I'll enlighten you directly, starting with the freedom you'll feel once you're unencumbered by all those excess assets. I'll be right here by my computer... |
malthumb
Senior Member
Username: malthumb
Post Number: 471
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 9:59 am: | |
Oh, I've been around. Just a bit more silent than usual. Have to save my singing voice. |
malthumb
Senior Member
Username: malthumb
Post Number: 472
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 10:04 am: | |
In all seriousness, I have been around, mainly popping in and out of the "Basses & Guitars" forum, the "Showcase" forum, and the "Factory to Customer" forum. Ocassionally I bounce into the "For Sale / Wanted, etc" forum. I stay the heck out of the "Misc" forum for reasons made very evident in this thread. If I want to argue with someone on the net, (argue, not debate) I have more than my share of opportunities to do so elsewhere. |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 623
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 10:35 am: | |
I think Monty Python was prescient about the nature of internet interactions. I'd post it here, but it's way too long:
http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm
Or for those who prefer to view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM |
paulman
Senior Member
Username: paulman
Post Number: 430
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 12:06 pm: | |
 |
oujeebass
Intermediate Member
Username: oujeebass
Post Number: 173
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 9:15 pm: | |
Keep The Alembic Forum West Coast! |
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee
Post Number: 2442
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 9:05 am: | |
So, to reprise every kid on a road trip vacation with the parents, "are we there yet?"
For all the people who wish to take this particular discussion seriously, I think the tangent of the last series of posts might be viewed as disrespectful. I know that, If I were making such a petition, I wouldn't be entirely amused. I believe we owe those members the respect to consider the request seriously and come to a timely conclusion even if we are opposed to the idea. This tangent also reinforces for me the idea that this thread may have run the course.
I will admit that my mind was pretty much made up before this thread was started. In spite of that, and trying to read with an open mind, I haven't seen any compelling reason to think differently. I suspect that this is true of most participants on both fundamental sides of the issue. This leaves us in the position where we can either stew on it eternally, or we can agree to disagree and be at peace with whatever decision Alembic makes. If it wasn't already obvious, I prefer the latter.
If anyone wishing to engage in political and social discourse is willing to do a little work, I tested the creation of a Yahoo group for such a purpose. It takes about five minutes to set up such a group. It can be configured to be unlisted through Yahoo, and to allow access only to group members for both reading and posting. Whoever creates the group would become the owner and be able to approve members and assign moderator privileges. There is a little overhead, but that's the expected cost of using a third party to host such a facility. There are probably other options for this as well. If someone wants to take this responsibility on and would like a little coaching, let me know. Worst case would be that it wouldn't achieve traction and a little time would be wasted. I believe such a private forum would only need enough moderation to avoid legal issues such as copyright infringement or libel.
-bob
PS - I did find the WSJ comment to be both amusing and directly on point. Thanks, James! |
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck
Post Number: 9308
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 5:49 pm: | |
Thanks to everyone for their ideas and opinions and helpful advice. Weve read all the posts, and as the thread progressed I think we found ourselves going back and forth on which way to go; so many of the points that were presented on both sides were valid, reasonable, and considered.
After reading through the thread, and after much of the discussion among the moderators, Mica stated I think its about balance. For me, this tied everything together; and I had to smile at how beautifully that one word summarized the whole discussion.
Several members mentioned that they had noticed that moderating had perhaps increased a little too much. We agree; were thinking that perhaps with the increase in the numbers of moderators and the learning curve that the new moderators faced, we may have been a little too exuberant in our efforts. We have been reviewing some of our past decisions and reexamining where the line is in different types of situations.
There was something close to an even split among members responding to the thread between those who wanted to loosen up and expand allowable areas of discussion and those who wanted things to stay the same as they are now. Both sides presented good reasons for their positions. There were also a significant number of comments, sometimes from those who didnt express a preference for one side or the other, that stressed the importance of maintaining harmony and of maintaining and enforcing the rules related to sexism, racism, personal attacks, etc. In fact it does seem that pretty much everyone agrees on those points; there was not much in the way of suggestions that such rules be abandoned.
After it was initially suggested, there were several good points both for and against a separate section that would to some degree or other be less restrictive on politics and similar discussions. The moderators had some back and forth on that as well.
The many people that wanted to keep things the way they are now were passionate in their feelings that it was important to do so, and set forth good reasons why we shouldnt change. And the many people that wanted to loosen things up were equally persuasive in their reasoning and in their feelings on the importance of doing so. In my view, neither side on this issue is wrong.
But of course we cant both change the rules and not change the rules; and if we choose one side over the other, a number of people will be, to one degree or another, disappointed.
So heres what Im thinking. First, the moderators will try to be a little less exuberant in their moderating; well try to be a little more mindful of cutting some slack, giving a thread a little more time to calm down, and giving the members a bit more of a chance to self moderate. Second, when an existing thread in the misc. section starts veering off into politics, we will, depending on the topic, try to take more of a wait and see approach. However, in my view, for this to work, given the feelings expressed by so many of our community, when a member ventures off into politics they should only do so after giving due consideration to how others in the community might react. I think it important that, for each of us, respect for all of our fellow club members should be something that we never lose sight of.
The separate section idea was a good one, and the moderators did talk about how we could set it up. But considering the opinions expressed by the group as a whole, Im thinking thats too big of a move from where we are now. Im also a bit wary of new threads being started specifically on political issues, although there I can see where some small amount of leeway on the part of the moderators may be prudent.
I admit where it is difficult for me to see how this will play out, and it does seem to me that there will be many topics that, when we first consider how others in the community will feel to their being broached on our board, should never be introduced.
A few things to keep in mind;
- This is Alembics place of business, and it is an extension of the Wickershams home. What we write here reflects on the company and the family.
- There are politicians, commentators, radio personalities, reporters, news anchors, news networks, political parties, ideologies, grassroots organizations, etc. that some of us may highly respect, the same ones of which others of us may think are completely nuts. Because some of us tend to be passionate about these things, I think it important to keep in mind that if you write that a certain cable commentator is insane, there will be others in our community that will take that as a personal attack.
- This is a global community. In the spirit of treating each other with respect we should be mindful when writing about other countries, other world leaders, other regions, etc. that our fellow members come from countries all over the world.
On the idea of staying out of a thread if you find it offensive, I would offer this. If someone is passionate in their views of say global warming, and that person knows that there is a thread in the misc. section wherein their views are being trashed by some of their fellow members, even if that person elects to stay out of the thread, it still hurts.
Finally, one thing that we noticed when reading through the responses to the thread; we have a really great group here. When reading through this thread, I dont think you can help but come to the conclusion that this is just a great group of people. For the moderators this, unexpectedly, was the big take away from the discussion. And for that, we would like to thank all of you. |
crobbins
Senior Member
Username: crobbins
Post Number: 603
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 6:15 pm: | |
Cheers! |
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky
Post Number: 568
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 6:58 am: | |
The worst thing I have ever seen on this site was a quote by a long time member using teh N-word. I was very upset by such a racist post.
Vann-Di Galloway |
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 7:06 am: | |
Yes it was me..I was quoting it from 'Blazing Saddles'
Sorry for so much upset..I regret it deeply and I am ashamed that I said it in the first place Apologies to everyone and I hope I get forgiveness.
(Message edited by TerryC on May 13, 2010) |
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko
Post Number: 2606
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 7:30 am: | |
In Terry's defence, Blazing saddles is an immensely funny movie which attempts to highlight the stupidity of racism. The quote he posted, while offensive when taken out of context is part of one of the funnier scenes in the movie. Taking comments out of context and missing the body language that goes with them is always going to be one of the problems with an online forum and as many people have already said, it's worth reading what you've written then thinking really hard about whether or not to post it.
Graeme |
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky
Post Number: 569
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 9:46 am: | |
Apology accepted. Not pointing fingers, simply showing an example of how an off topic thread led to something totaly unintended.
Vann-Di |
masterofmanystrings
New
Username: masterofmanystrings
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 1:11 pm: | |
Well, as I pretty much expected, most of my comments don't seem to have registered at all... at least with most of the posters at the site here.
On the other hand, I received several private emails from others who explicitly agreed with what I wrote. I am choosing to post just the most recent, and from an individual I've not corresponded with before, and who I won't name.
"Right on the money! I quit hanging at the club for many of the reasons you mentioned, and I am quite grateful that you took the time to post your (our) thoughts there. Let's hope that someday it goes back to being the place we used to enjoy so much. I seriously doubt it will, but it will not change unless little pushes are made on those who seems unable to move themselves. Thanks!"
I could post plenty of others, but there wouldn't be any point, and this one illustrates the point just fine.
Isn't the POINT of whatever policies the PTB choose to have to promote harmony and coziness... and NOT JUST to a small self-selected sub-group...? Because THAT'S what the policies here have done. Perhaps those that've stuck around find it cozy and harmonious... but myself and others find it exactly the opposite, and don't come here because of it. From OUR perspective, it's at the least "less" cozy and harmonious that it used to be, and certainly neither cozy nor harmonious in general.
... Again, my prior comments just don't seem to have registered AT ALL, as, to the extent there have been responses, they indicate a consistent failure to grasp and respond to my primary points -which were quite clear.
Let me try a different approach. The processes we go through to communicate in this forum and in this medium are basically the same as if we were all sitting at a table. Sure there are differences; if we're all actually there we can't speak at once and must give and take, alternate between speaking and listening, and so forth.
But the processes of "listening"... of evaluating and integrating what others "say" and of responding, including making efforts to think and choose, and communicate in a natural way and with integrity... there's no difference. At least not for me.
The majority of those I choose to hang with in situations other than work are really cool people who are free of malice, and who speak their minds honestly as I do, and WE do not have any problems with this... ever.
Free speech, and allowing free speech doesn't cause problems... ever. No fooling. What causes problems is people -meaning individuals (meaning specific individuals)- choosing to be malicious, irrational, or both.
In such cases, catering to the malicious and/or irrational by limiting free speech, and depriving everyone (including, most especially and importantly, those who ARE capable of fully utilizing, enjoying, and benefitting from the open/uncensored environment) of the benefits of open/integrity-assured communication... is a SERIOUS logical and tactical error (assuming the objective is to foster an inviting and positive forum).
That it is the "right" of the PTB to do whatever they want isn't in question.
What I am attempting to point out is that their policies have in fact achieved the opposite of what I'm certain the PURPOSE of the policies almost certainly is: to promote an inviting and positive environment.
Once I or others here have to, to any degree, try and take into account the infinite arbitrary ways in which any views we have may be "offensive", and have to assume responsibility for those who may choose to respond irrationally to others stating their thoughts/opinions... such "communication" becomes a FUNDAMENTALLY different proposition.
Personally I won't deal with such an environment because I reject the whole paradigm as antithetical to integrity. It's my responsibility to speak my mind as I see it and to rationally respond to others doing the same. It's not my responsibility to pre-emptively self-censor myself in ANY way (in what can ONLY be an ultimately futile effort to placate the infinite and arbitrary irrational responses that can/might occur). To do so is undermine ALL communication, whether you realize or not. (And whether you do or don't is a crucial element/characteristic of "enlightenment".)
A couple of posts especially illustrate how my points here just don't seem to have registered with some here: in his post #612 edwin says/asks
"Masterofmanystrings, I am curious why you feel the need to lay down such a detailed screed to a place which you state is in your rear view mirror. If you are not here, why should we incorporate the standards you seek?"
As I thought I made perfectly clear from my first post here, the whole point is WHY myself and others aren't here... and the point being that what I have to say -that myself and others don't come here as often or at all is because of PRECISELY the topic of this thread. The answer to your question has been discussed in considerable and explicit detail, to such an extent that it actually boggles my mind that you ask the question. But it does underscore my point in an explicit and extreme degree.
I also simply can't agree with the whole sympathizing for the "moderator" thing. First of all, to use a more honest word... "censor"... myself and others of similar mindset find a "censor" about as useful and desirable as a diaper-changer. Now if some feel they need such a service, and sypathize with how "thankless" the job is, I respect their right to that opinion, but for me it's beyond silly.
Moving on, I also found glockes' post #721 to illustrate the evasion of my points: He begins with:
"The more I think about it, the more Im surprised this is even being discussed.
I mean seriously, this is first and foremost a MUSIC related forum, why on earth would someone want to bring their possibly controversial views here when there are so many better places to post those things where people go that actually WANT to read stuff like that."
... You're "surprised" this is being discussed? Wow. I guess it should presumably be assumed that an open/uncensored atmosphere wouldn't/should't even be a consideration. Remarkable. Interestingly -but for COMPLETELY opposite reasons- I agree with the implication that it "shouldn't" be discussed... though I don't find it surprising that it is being "discussed".
Glocke askes "why on earth would someone want to bring their possibly controversial views"...
Take a good look at this, because it perfectly illustrates something profound which at least glocke apparently doesn't get at all. ALL of EVERYONES views are "possibly contraversial"... "possibly contraversial" is conceptual nonsense, absolutely and completely useless and not rationally integratable... unless one takes it absolutely literally, in which case it's still useless.
ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING can be "possibly contraversial" and/or "potentially offensive". ANYTHING. And EVERYTHING.
This whole notion that just because something falls into a category of "politics", "religion" "sex" or "death" or... "philosophy"... that it shouldn't be discussed and/or that limiting such topics "protects us... is absurd.
Glocke says a few other points I want to respond to:
"A quick look at some other music related forums reveals that no politcal/social commentary section exists for the ones I saw."
... Clearly the implication is that "what 'other forums' have/allow on/in their sites is of some potential meaning or relevance. This implication is so arbitrary, defenseless, and (self-edited) that no other observation is appropriate.
terryc posted:
"glocke..I totally agree, I am a member of a motorcycle forum, the only political items we discuss is government restrictions on motorcyclists."
Wow. If you look a little bit deeper... just a little... you may see that the idea of "governmental restrictions on motorcycles" can't be rationally separated from the underlying issue of what our rights are and what "governments" legitimate authority is and isn't. In fact, attempting to discuss the application of principles in such a forum where "government restrictions on motorcyles" "may" be discussed, but the underlying and related issues "may not" be discussed leads to an epistemologically haphazard environement which acts to undermine its own goals as much as promote them. If it isn't self-evident how absurd this notion is... you're missing a pretty significant logical point with a universe of implications.
Those of "you" that view this as "why are we even considering whether or not to allow open/uncensored/offensive speech to occur here are fooling yourselves... because (A) you AREN'T ELIMINATING (and CAN'T eliminate) "offensive" communication... you're just artificially limiting to and catering to some arbitrary standard (even if it's ultimate the will of the PTB), and (B) what you ARE doing is promoting an environment that's the reverse of what you seem to want.
The censorship policies of this forum have actively discouraged and chased away at least several members, and from what I can gather, a "lot".
Most will not take the time to post as I have -although a double-digit number of people have sent me emails such as the one I posted above expressing agreement with my sentiments.
"You" have chased "us" away with your policies. Those of you that need mommy-censor and daddy censor and going crying to mommy and daddy when you see things that offend you rather than exercising the adult skills that you could acquire and exercise if you chose to do so. Instead, you seek an environment that's a reversion to preschool and which forfeits the crucial essence and consequence riches of the uncensored/adult environment.
I'm out of here, gang, and I won't be back. Not unless things change big time, and become a fundamentally and radically different place from how it is now -which I don't see happening.
You know, this is going to sound really harsh, but it's really not a cheap shot. It's just the best way I can think of to express an impression. There's 2 houses I've gone to in my lifetime where the residents had cats that weren't fixed... male I think... where, as soon as you walk in the house, the odor of catpiss in the furniture, everywhere is so overpowering it's allmost impossible to stay in the house. I remember these times clearly, and being stunned that the residents weren't embarrassed to tears (and their homes were otherwise actually orderly) over how atrocious their homes were. But indeed, they actually simply didn't realize it. They were used to the smell, and I'm sure they likely focused on the love and good things they did have in their homes. I never went back to either of them after the first time.
And that's actually kind of how it is here. The dogma and restrictiveness of the environment here has a similar quality.
I do wish you all the best -though I'll frankly add that I also do both miss (most of) you, but also am still angry at those who led to my not wanting to come around, and at their mentality and the harm it causes.
Take care, all.
PS I was planning to delete my member info but will leave it up for a while so others can email me. |
darkstar01
Advanced Member
Username: darkstar01
Post Number: 216
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 1:51 pm: | |
(yawn)
is my bass done yet? |
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc
Post Number: 1194
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 2:13 pm: | |
Hmm.if anyone has noticed I have kept my posts to things Alembic and technical. |
groovelines
Senior Member
Username: groovelines
Post Number: 587
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 2:17 pm: | |
Mark,
I suspect your comments were taken into account - with all the others - including those that disagreed with you. Perhaps, by themselves, your arguments just weren't persuasive.
I support free speech and it's many benefits, however this is not a free speech zone. Never has been to the extent that you and your supporters believe it should be. This site was not created with that intent in mind and as I see it, it shouldn't be coerced into becoming one. The site is an extension of a business. And as such, developing standards for this forum is well within Alembic's purview and frankly it would be irresponsible of Alembic to not have guidelines in place. Alembic does not need my/yours/our input, or agreement on any policy it decides best reflects their intent, community, sense of propriety. Instead, it is I that must agree to abide by their judgment in order to participate. I don't think it's unreasonable and I'm okay with that.
If Alembic were to start clamping down on, or eliminating posts that detracted from their craftsmanship, products, business practices, etc, then you could make that case that censorship was in effect. I don't see that. In fact I've read several posts over the years where people have complained, sometimes bitterly, about Alembic. Yet, the posts remained on line.
Regarding the rendered decision - I'm bothered that it wasn't really a decision. More of a continuance. But hey, it's not my house, I don't get to make the rules.
Simply put, being here is a privilege not a right.
respectfully,
Mike |
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq
Post Number: 4417
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 8:42 pm: | |
Hey guys, anyone notice how we have expressed many different and conflicting opinions above ... and yet nobody called anyone names, disparaged anyone, or "stepped over the line"? We did that before and I see no reason why we can't keep on "self-policing". We really are just a bunch of intelligent, respectful musically inclined people with a varied spectrum of interests. I'd hate to see big brother looking over our shoulders giving thumbs up or thumbs down to each post. We have conversations here, and conversations naturally veer off in different directions as they proceed. Not everyone is going to find everything interesting. I don't wait for the motorcycle posts with baited breath, but they don't bother me either, and I certainly wouldn't want one of the mods deleting them just because they aren't about Alembic. Let's just all chill out and enjoy our little corner of cyberspace.
Bill, tgo |
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee
Post Number: 2443
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 10:49 pm: | |
I sort of agree with Mike here. Dave wrote a lengthy post that really doesn't say much, and doesn't really set down any well-defined policy. I find it troubling in that both sides of this question can view it as a loss.
For those who wanted complete freedom to discuss any topic, that hasn't happened. For those who want a club free of political, religious, or other delicate subjects unrelated to Alembic and music, that restriction seems to have been relaxed.
As best I can tell, the outcome is that topics will be controlled at the arbitrary whim of the moderators. The moderators just promise to be kinder and gentler to people who are straddling lines at the expense of those who would rather not see the lines approached. And this is a good thing?
As far as no one crossing any lines in this thread, I disagree. I think there are a few posts that, although polite in selection of words, amount to personal attacks. Even so, it's not like we're actually discussing one of the taboo topics in this thread.
What I suspect we will see going forward is the occasional tangential hot-button discussion that appears polite, but still offends people. Those people may be polite and restrained enough to refrain from posting or escalating, but it won't make them any less uncomfortable at having to see it discussed here. I fear that attempting to appease everyone will satisfy very few in the end.
-bob |
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke
Post Number: 723
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 2:33 am: | |
Masterofmany, cya. If you dont like how things are run here, and cant play by the rules than dont play the game. Im not sure why one would feel compelled to leave because they dont like the way a forum that that they neither, host, manage or pay for is run, but based on your previous post this forum may not be the place for you.
Its not like this is a club that we joined where we pay dues, have the right to vote for board members, or vote on new projects, etc.
Personally, Im grateful that this forum exists, as should others that are critical of how it is managed. It takes time, effort and money to provide a website such as this, and I think everyone who is being critical needs to stop and think about that.
"Glocke askes "why on earth would someone want to bring their possibly controversial views"...
Take a good look at this, because it perfectly illustrates something profound which at least glocke apparently doesn't get at all. ALL of EVERYONES views are "possibly contraversial"... "possibly contraversial" is conceptual nonsense, absolutely and completely useless and not rationally integratable... unless one takes it absolutely literally, in which case it's still useless.
ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING can be "possibly contraversial" and/or "potentially offensive". ANYTHING. And EVERYTHING. "
ummmm....not so, and to be honest I really, really think you are thinking way too hard about this.
A perfectly good example of something that some people (including myself) may find offensive is what occurred after the last election. There were several posts made after the election results were official celebrating the election of one candidate, while taking cheap shots at the previous president. That type of post is just an invitation for things to get ugly. I think THAT is the type of thing, along with personal insults that those in favor of what you call censorship have in mind.
(Message edited by glocke on May 14, 2010)
(Message edited by glocke on May 14, 2010)
multiple edits to correct typos!!!
(Message edited by glocke on May 14, 2010) |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 627
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 2:48 am: | |
double post. My bad.
(Message edited by edwin on May 14, 2010) |
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin
Post Number: 628
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 2:49 am: | |
Mark, despite your seeming all powerful strength of observation, it is you that failed to comprehend my question. I wasn't asking why you left. You made that abundantly clear. What you didn't do was answer my question. Now that you are gone, why should we care what you think? Or, why should you care whether we care what you think? What do you expect will happen as a result of your highly condescending posts? Do you expect everyone to say "Oh, what a superior person! He really knows what reality is for everyone and so with his immensely insightful criticism of us, we should really change to suit his ways, even though he won't be around to enjoy it!"?
Despite your overweening confidence in your ability to make judgments about the appropriateness of topics and posts here, I'd like to point out that it's not always so cut and dry. There are topics here that stir up emotions of which nothing good can come with regards to Alembic and their instruments. A case in point is the Kent State post. A board member asked us to drop it (not a moderator) and at first I thought it was a silly thing to do, but after pondering it and discussing it with the person who requested it, I came to the conclusion that discretion is sometimes the better part of valor. Some people will get insulted by what they perceive as the glorification of anti-Americanism and the other side will be upset about what they perceive as the rise of the police state. Both sides are populated with really good, honest, caring people (and some great players!) and in the internet, it's easy to have things get to the point where people would say things that serve no purpose but to hurt. No one is going to be convinced of the rightness of the other political side on this board, and even if they do, what does that have to do with Alembic instruments?
Mark, as far as I can tell, you got "censored," it pissed you off and now you want to assert your alpha maleness by taking shots at us and then declaring that you are leaving so that you are immune to whatever response you might get. Maybe you are upset because you weren't asked to be a moderator. The question remains, though, what the heck do you want from a group of people that you have so roundly rejected? I think it's pretty cowardly to hit and run like this. That's some pretty weak sauce. It would be nice to have a conversation about this, but the way you are dealing with it pretty much precludes it. You talk a good game about adult behavior, but an adult moderates his own behavior and words in order to be effective instead of creating opponents and calling them names so he can feel better about himself. A real adult persuades someone of their position in such a way that makes them feel good about getting there. You create a lot more heat than light. So, do what you have to do, just don't dash in here, piss on us, tell us it's raining and split.
I apologize to the rest of you, but I really don't like being insulted personally and collectively. |
the_mule
Senior Member
Username: the_mule
Post Number: 774
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 5:27 am: | |
Edwin, couldn't agree with you more, very well said.
BTW: I'm looking forward to seeing your Series I shortscale finished.
Excellent choice. I love mine!
Wilfred |
toma_hawk01
New
Username: toma_hawk01
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 7:10 am: | |
The elephant is in the room...
I left the club because my message was immediately deleted after responding to the "n" word used on a thread, and yet that word remained for weeks before it was removed.
While people were enjoying a good laugh at the "Blazing Saddles" thread, I was in my chair, asking myself: "What the hell does this have anything to do with Alembic basses?"
So sorry, it didn't take the brilliance of a Mel Brooks movie, for become enlighten about the sickness of racism (I wish it would had only took this movie). However, sadly, I have first hand experience in every aspect of my childhood and professional life of this evil. I am sure, if I were to tell you my stories, some of you would probably be laughing as well.
Peace and Love,
Hal- |
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko
Post Number: 2607
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 7:20 am: | |
Hal...
"asking myself: "What the hell does this have anything to do with Alembic basses?" "
The subtitle of the miscellaneous section states..
"Free for all area - talk amongst yourselves"
so topics posted here don't need to have anything to do with Alembic basses.
The poster of that comment has made an unreserved apology for any offence he may unintentionally have caused and I'm sure you are man enough to accept such an apology in the spirit it was made.
Graeme.
p.s. as an englishman living in Central Scotland, I also come in for the occasional spate of racial abuse and I don't suppose I'm the only one so I very much doubt if anyone on this forum would laugh at any of your stories. |
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum
Post Number: 794
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 7:31 am: | |
With all due respect Hal, I think you created more than a few threads that had absolutely nothing to do with Alembic. I'm not complaining, and I'm not saying that particular quote was in good taste (as has been admitted by the author), but I think it would have been better to stay and make clear how that particular quote made you feel, rather than leave and let silence rule.
By the way, I'm still hoping for some clips of the Toma hawk!
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on May 14, 2010) |
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus
Post Number: 930
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 7:46 am: | |
Jack Nicholson in " Mars Attacks !" as the President said _____
"Why can't we all just get along ?"________________ |
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus
Post Number: 931
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 7:48 am: | |
Hi Hal ! |
toma_hawk01
New
Username: toma_hawk01
Post Number: 4
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 8:10 am: | |
I didn't post my message to get into any debates. I am done with these issues, and I put all this stuff behind me. Life is too short enough, but I believe if this site is to become better, censorship is evil.
So in fear of my words being stripped from readings, I'll go back to my silence world.
Hi Wolf!
PS... That was Rodney King who originally made the quote: "... can't we all, just get alone?"
But if it takes more bang from Jack Nicholson in a fictional movie before the phase get valid, then go with movie man Jack.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on May 14, 2010) |
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum
Post Number: 795
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 9:38 am: | |
For what it's worth, I'm not interested in debating either. I would just prefer people try to work out their problems, rather than leave. I would prefer a forum where everyone feels welcome.
/I'm serious about those sound clips, by the way. |
afrobeat_fool
Advanced Member
Username: afrobeat_fool
Post Number: 203
Registered: 7-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 9:47 am: | |
Which one is it, Hal? Censorship is evil? In that case the N word is ok. Or, Censorship is good, in that case the N word and anything the moderators think is too much for the site, goes. I don't wish you to be silent, but to add your color to conversations in a balanced viewpoint.
I have slept on the bus for over a week, and any misunderstanding is not intentional. I also hope this is not taken as an attack. As it is not ment as one.
Nick |
toma_hawk01
New
Username: toma_hawk01
Post Number: 5
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 10:59 am: | |
Good point, Nick.
I believe Censorship is evil.
If someone says something derogatory, and or repugnant, I believe there's enough wisdom here to correct it by the citizens, and the moderators. Threads are self correcting in most cases.
I don't believe anyone dealt with more criticism than my hendixclarke/Toma_Hawk threads.
"I got hammered, as a new kid" and yet, I didn't cry censorship.
In the end, I have the baddest bass Alembic ever made!
I owe the Wickershams a huge level of respect for making my dreams come true, and beyond the bass, I can honestly say, I love the Wickersham family from the bottom of my heart.
As for the members here, I deal with you on a one by one bases.
Peace and Love,
Hal- |
pace
Senior Member
Username: pace
Post Number: 534
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 1:02 pm: | |
The more time y'all spend dickin' around on this thread, the less time Dave, Adrian, and Keith have to jam....
In order for me to express my political views to members of this forum w/out explicitly posting them, I did you all a favor and signed you up for the Limbaugh Letter!!!! |
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum
Post Number: 796
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 1:39 pm: | |
Good one Mike! |
byoung
Senior Member
Username: byoung
Post Number: 1259
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 10:22 pm: | |
I think I can summarize my views on politico-religious discussion on the Alembic Club as a reductio ad absurdium:
Your views are dumb and wrong.
When we talk about politics or religion on this forum, it inevitably goes there, or at least tries to.
I do not see how that is productive or beneficial.
As long as we're airing dirty laundry: I don't come here much anymore, precisely because of the lunatick behavior of two people who actually commented in this thread. 'nuff said.
Bradley |
darkstar01
Advanced Member
Username: darkstar01
Post Number: 217
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2010 - 12:21 am: | |
hey.. if we're adding to the forum, why don't we just add a sports section? and you might as well throw in a place to talk about movies.. you know, the latest releases. and hey, we all love alembics, but can we get a fender section? that'd be nice. hell, might as well have separate sections for beer, pizza, and motorcycles.
you know, it's the weirdest thing.. when i see a thread that i don't agree with/have no interest in, i just don't read it. i know! crazy! must be something wrong with me.
oh, and is my bass done yet? |
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler
Post Number: 1120
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2010 - 1:12 am: | |
Yeah, pizza!
I'm for keeping this 100% Alembic, that's what this board stands for to me.
There are some good examples mentioned above why it should (imho) be that way, there's no need for possible negative vibes here that has nothing to do with Alembic.
In the misc. section there's place for some non Alembic related topics, the guidelines gave a clear and (to me) logical/acceptable set of rules to keep things civil here.
Nothing wrong with that, imho it should stay that way.
Now I'll have to think about my next order from Alembic, a custom Pizza :-) |
mike1762
Senior Member
Username: mike1762
Post Number: 541
Registered: 1-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2010 - 3:59 am: | |
An Alembic pizza!!! I bet that would be good.
Homemade crust, sauce from Heirloom Tomatoes (you could choose the variety of course), Caciocavallo Podolico Cheese, Black Périgord Truffle, Wagyu Sausage.... Uuuummmmmmm Gooooood.
(Message edited by mike1762 on May 16, 2010) |
the_mule
Senior Member
Username: the_mule
Post Number: 775
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2010 - 4:31 am: | |
Make mine an enormous seven layer hippie sandwich...
and nobody is allowed to talk with their mouths full!
Wilfred |
mario_farufyno
Senior Member
Username: mario_farufyno
Post Number: 445
Registered: 9-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - 1:44 pm: | |
Uh, Mushrooms in mine Hippie Sandwich, please... ha ha ha |
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