| Author | Message | ||
| angelboy
Junior Username: angelboy Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2004 |
What does wood sound like? Bit vauge.............what I mean is, can anyone explain the sound characteristics of different woods. I keep playing around with the custom quotes and when I get down the wood section I'm totally lost on what I'd get. Does anyone know of the sound of a combination of wood? Bit of a tricky one I guess?!? | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1091 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Paul the Aaaaaaaaaaaaargh one! How are you? When I was young (on this club -my 24th post) I wrote this: The difference in the applied woods is best audible in neck-throuhg body basses. A high contrast in top woods lies between maple (very bright) and Vermillion (very warm). Mahogany as body by far the most "neutral" wood. Maple body's are getting brighter, the same with Ash and Cherry. Walnut as body gives a more "dark" sound. Maybe the following list (top woods) can be of some guidance: Pappel: deep basses, soft mids. Basswood: idem Mahogany: lots of bass, warm mids, lot of punch. Alder: round and present mid, clear tone. Walnut: round basses, good and pronounced mids. Ash: dry and compressed bass-sound. Soft Maple: Pronounced bass and mids. High Harmonics. Hard Maple: Present bass. Brilliant. Good "pronounciation". Koa - Goncalo Alves: Transparant sound. Pressing bass. Good pronounciation. Mutenye - Ovankol: very pressing bass. transparancy, high harmonics. Padouk: Transparancy, pressing bass, brilliant. Amaranth (purple hearth): Brilliant, clear, direct and hard. Bubinga: Brilliant, clear bas, good pronounciation. Palisander: Brilliant, present bass and mids Wenge: dry, hard and brilliant. Ebony: hard, brilliant, compression. It comes from different sources but the main source was a booklet made by a Belgian builder Ed Collier. For what it's worth. MIca and Susan are wood-authorities (apart from Treebeard of course). Paul the bad one | ||
| 811952
Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 96 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ahh, Treebeard... "I'd like a Series II with some of those elven-ring position markers and "the one eye" laser LEDs, made out of Entwood, bookmatched to center..." I imagine the ents are crushing my house right now just for typing that... John the "moving to the Shire soon" one | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2002 |
The most dramatic sounding Bass I ever played was my "Dark Prince" featured custom Rogue. All Ebony & Purpleheart with a 36" scale. Extremely bright and will sustain to the next day. I don't know how to compare it to anything else because there's never been anything else made like that (to my knowledge). Mica is probably the best authority on wood combinations and can certainly describe it better - She has tried the "Dark Prince" as well. Rami | ||
| 811952
Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rami, Would you say it is brighter and sustains comparably to graphite? How does the 36" scale feel? Quite a bit tighter I would guess.. John | ||
| angelboy
Junior Username: angelboy Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2004 |
Paul TBO: Maybe one day in another 1054 posts I will pass on 'The knowledge of the wood' to some young up-start like myself - and so the circle continues! I wonder what a Jarrah wood bass would sound like........ Paul TAO | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 300 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey John, Designing the "Dark Prince" involved looking for all the ingredients to build the king of sustain. The hardest, heaviest woods, and the super long scale. Actually, the Purpleheart body was Mica's idea after I suggested the Ebony and Purpleheart neck. It actually sustains better than any graphite neck bass I ever tried. Bright, super clear sound with endless sustain. It also has a super heavy fundamental. Those low notes hit you in the gut like a shotgun blast. I call it the ultimate Bass. The next one in the works is a fretless with Series II electronics. Can't wait! Rami | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 350 Registered: 7-2002 |
Paul TAO, we actually have a slab of Jarrah burl in the shop, but we haven't made any basses with it yet, so we don't know what it would sound like. It does look gorgeous; Bob Nelson, Mica's uncle and the man who does the finish(and much more) on all your instruments, is also an amazing wood turner. I got a stunning bowl made of Jarrah burl from him, that is now one of my most treasured possessions. I'm supposed to take some pictures of it for him, so I'll try to post them in the future; that way you can all see how lovely Jarrah looks. Incidentally, in case you are wondering, a Jarrah burl top is 1200$. Valentino | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 352 Registered: 7-2002 |
 | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 353 Registered: 7-2002 |
The picture does not do it justice, & I haven't got around getting a polarizing filter to eliminate reflections, but still, you get an idea... Valentino | ||
| mattheus
Intermediate Member Username: mattheus Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2003 |
Who makes the first bid............ ; ) | ||
| angelboy
Junior Username: angelboy Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2004 |
valvil: I used to be artist coordinator for Brady Drums a few years ago so I've managed to take a stock of a few Jarrah snares. The most noticeable thing about Jarrah, in drums, is the volume. There's plenty of other amazing qualities for Jarrah drums, including the looks. Chris Brady used to have this amazing, and totally Australian philosophy, with regards the wood he used. Basically, he'd go out into the bush for a few days and chop down loads of different trees, then go back to his factory and make some drums out of them. I guess he tried a few woods that were terrible but found loads more that were great. I imagine it's a little harder to make a bass in the same way as this but it would be interesting to try some of the woods Chris uses like, Wandoo, Lemon-scented gum, Gimlet, sheok and loads more I can't remember. I'm sure when the time comes and the finances allow I'll be stretching the envelope of acceptable bass materials! Paul TAO | ||
| jure_the_second
Junior Username: jure_the_second Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey, Rami. I thought the "long sustain" formula was light wood, not heavy. Example: My friends fender is indeed lighter and has more sustain than mine. Same comparison with my Jazz and Alembic. I guess it's not JUST about how much the bass weiights... Jure | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 301 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Jure, There are alot of factors that contribute to sustain such as neck through construction and the stiffness of the woods. The softer and lighter the wood, the more (I find) it absorbs the string vibrations, hence the less sustain. I've got a few great sounding Jazz Basses too, but there's no comparison to an Alembic. It's just the physics of the construction. Harder woods produce better sustain. Neck through construction is always superior for sustain than bolt-on too. Bolt on necks have less surface contact between the body and neck (not to mention the air gaps), as well a neck through body will never shift. Rami | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2004 |
Valentino, that bowl is BEAUTIFUL. I imagine you don't keep Doritos in it. Jure - the lighter wood may have nothing to do with it. When you think of a bass (or guitar) string vibrating, the best sustain happens when both ends are securely locked in position. With an open string, this means the nut and the bridge. If a bolt-on neck can shift, even slightly, it creates a wobble against the string motion and you dampen the vibrations. A through-neck bass SHOULD have more sustain than a bolt-on, but there are other factors in construction which can influence sustain. For instance - if the nut has slots which are bigger than the strings, and perhaps the slots are not clean, that means the string is riding on dirt and can wobble side-to-side with string vibration. Same for the slots in the bridge. The pull downwards at the bridge (from the tailpiece) and at the nut (from the string tree on a Fender, or better yet, the tilted headstock of an Alembic) makes the string contact at both places firm - but dirt and slop in the shape of the pieces can affect tone and sustain. On a fretted note, the shape and condition of the frets can make a difference also. Get one of the Erlewine guitar repair/setup books. I found it great reading especially where he gives many tips about increasing performance of Fender style bolt on guitars. Armed with his info, I wonder if you could do an expert setup, neck shim, etc. etc. on a cheap Squier and make it play wonderfully. The bridge construction can affect sustain as well. Alembic's bridge seems solid enough (how can you argue with success?) and seems to stop side to side wobble by the bridge saddles being threaded into the intonation adjustment screws and also the tolerance on the slider rod seems very very tight. Short of a lockscrew for the saddle like on some bridges I would think this is about the best Alembic can do. I also wonder if the perceived sustain difference on the Fenders may be because they are using passive pickups and perhaps the input on the amp is turned up higher to compensate? EffClef | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am a layman when it comes to physics, but here goes it as I understand it: Body resonance plays a huge part in sustain as well. Resonant frequency can be manipulated by changing stiffness (neck woods, etcetera) and changing mass (heavy body, bridge block). At the resonant frequency, or one of it's harmonics, the energy of the string is absorbed (by moving the body or neck) very quickly and efficiently. Try playing the 7th fret on nearly any bass (even most Alembics) and you'll hear a faster decay than on the notes above and below. Now clamp a C-clamp on the headstock (not of your Alembic though) and you'll find that the dead spot moves and maybe disappears altogether. It's an old trick to get rid of dead spots on Fenders when recording. I also seem to recall a company marketing brass plates that went on the back of the head under the tuners in lieu of the unfashionable C-clamp. With a stiff neck alone, the energy will be quickly used to vibrate the neck because of the neck's low inertia (it is easier to put into motion because it's relatively light). The big body of the Alembic has a lot of inertia and doesn't soak up the string's energy as quickly. String tension makes a big difference on resonance, with 35 and 36 inch scales (all other things being equal) having better fundamental sustain. They make the neck behave as though it's stiffer because of the increased tautness of the string for a given pitch. It's a lot more critical as the mass of the string increases as well. I believe the deal with very light basses achieving good sustain is that the resonant frequency has been moved outside of the fundamental range in the other direction. Resonance is why bolt-ons and set-necks are more mid-rangy than neck throughs, and why we (the royal we, that is) wish we had purpleheart and ebony neck-throughs like Rami... John | ||
| dnburgess
Intermediate Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2003 |
Paul TAO - thinking I should order an all Australian wood Alembic. David B. | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 302 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wow! John, I couldn't have said it better. Rami | ||
| captain_jan
Junior Username: captain_jan Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hello all, I had been planning maybe in an year or so to order a new 5 string fretless from Alembic with the Excel body, and I was wondering if it would be made of teak? Has anyone ever done a bass of it? Teak is a beautiful wood and with a very high density so I suppose it could sound nice? The only instruments some of which are made of teak are Chapmans Sticks. So Mica and Val, would You do a teakwood bass if You had the wood or is it a bad idea? Thanks & all the Bass Jan | ||
| bob
Intermediate Member Username: bob Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2002 |
Captain, Great question. I happen to be a sailor, most of the furniture in my home is teak, and it's a pretty amazing wood. I agree that the density is an important factor for us bassists, although I also understand it's incredibly difficult to work with. Seems like it should have an oiled finish (or maybe varnish...). -Bob | ||
| captain_jan
Junior Username: captain_jan Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hi Bob, yes, either oiled or varnished. Both look good. And for us sailors it would be cool to have such a bass! On this cruise ship where I now work on I just finished building a new teak deck (instead of the old Oregon Pine one) and as usual deck planks are not varnished, only kept clean by washing. The railings are also teak but are varnished 8 to 10 times and look very nice as well. All the Bass Jan | ||
| dela217
Advanced Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 303 Registered: 6-2002 |
In the brochures from the early to mid 70's Alembic listed teak as a wood option. So they must have made basses and guitars of this wood before. I think teak is really pretty too! | ||
| rogertvr
Intermediate Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm catching up here...going back to John's post, part of which says "It's a lot more critical as the mass of the string increases as well". How do various string gauges compare against each other in the sustain stakes then when fitted to any given bass? Rog | ||
| rogertvr
Intermediate Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2003 |
I've re-read John's post about Fenders and C-clamps. I remember many many years ago (I can't remember when this was) when Squire Fenders were brand new out of the box, so to speak (early 80's?). I was playing a Fender Precision in the local music shop and the thing I noticed was that it had a sort of "dead" sound to it. Also, there were at least two or three dead spots at various places on the neck. It was pretty horrible to play really but not the only Fender Precision I've played that exhibited the same symptoms. I'm not writing to crucify Fenders, I learnt to play on a Jazz. But the store owner came to me and handed me a Fender Squire Precision (about 2/5th of the price of the Fender) and it was fantastic to play for the money and lots better than the Fender! Fender aren't the only basses that suffer dead spots though and they're neither the least nor most expensive from my experience. I'm pleased to say - no dead spots on my 4001 and none on my Westone Thunder 1A Fretless cheapie bass that I've had for nearly 20 years now either! Rog | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 201 Registered: 1-2003 |
Remove double post (Message edited by rogertvr on March 03, 2004) | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 202 Registered: 1-2003 |
Remove triple post - system having a bad day is it? (Message edited by rogertvr on March 03, 2004) | ||
| henri_lopes
New Username: henri_lopes Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2004 |
Brother Paul the bad one, Thanks for the post about the different woods. Now I know why my Epic has a different sound ( wich I love ). It has a mahogany body, maple accent, flame walnut top, maple neck and ebony fretboard. I love it. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1124 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Roger, piece of advice? Stop playing those R&R CD's when your posting. Tapping trhe beat with your finger iis a bad idea when on the keyboard! LOL! Brother Henri: you're welcome! As I said: for what it's worth!!! Beware: the Belgian luthier I got the information from was NOT sandwiching wood as the Alembicians do. Also: ALL his basses have graphite set necks with ebony fingerboards. It's why I think he really could compare between woods. What the Alembicians do is ...oh ...huh ...well ...more "alchemy" and elfish things ...they kinda "breed" basses out of woods, electronics, knowledge and craftmanship (see the explanation of the logo on the main page). Paul the bad | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am of the opinion that heavier gauge strings will give you more bottom and more sustain. I know that moving from a .120 on my first 5-string to a .130 made a world of difference. | ||
| bkbass
New Username: bkbass Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2003 |
Please allow me to further add to the confusion...Back in the early 90's I had Mica build me a 32"scale 5 string fretless spoiler made entirely out of purple heart with paduk stringers and accent laminates.The bass is a heavy one weighing in at around 13lbs and change.The thing will make your leg fall asleep after 20 minutes of playing without a strap!Now,I'm in complete agreement with everyones comments on more mass equals more sustain but here's the kicker,the bass is strung with extra light gauge strings a .30 on the G and a .105 on the B AND when playing the B one does not have to change or slightly pamper the B string.The sustain is at least equal to my 34" with a .128 on the B and my 35 1/4" .130 on the B.Except cleaner and quicker sounding but still with sinister sounding lows.So,I offer that unless your stuck with existing conditions I would offer having a more dense bass made.Just another choice in the mass equals sustain arena. |
