| Author | Message | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2004 |
I was wondering what a fretboard other than ebony would look like on an Alembic. You have the pau ferro on the Excels, and I've seen the coco bolo ones. These seem to be the only options in the Custom Quote Generator now but I could have sworn there were others available in the past. However, I found the following pictures!   Looks like it could be bubinga, or maybe rosewood. I wonder what an Alembic with a maple fingerboard (perhaps with contrasting dark oval inlays) would look and sound like? EffClef | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1092 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Andy, the new EVH "The Fish" will hae a 33" Rosewood neck. Alembic and maple necks?? I know some guys who asked it and I once got the answer that they would consider to do it iff I REALLY insisted but ...the Alembicians don't like it! Paul the bad one | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hmm...interesting that the Factory would discourage it. There must be a good reason. Perhaps an ebony fretboard could be put on, slightly thinner, and a thin veneer of some other wood laid on top, to give a different color yet retain the sound of the ebony. I can see why the ebony neck laminates are so expensive an option - they have to run that much longer. As for EVH - does he have any CDs where I could hear him play? Available in the US? Mark King and Stanley Clarke are much easier to find! EffClef | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1094 Registered: 9-2002 |
Andy take a look at http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/7481.html There is a bit of story behind EVH. He is not a solo artist but most of German, Dutch, Belgian and even French bass-players remember him from demo-ing for ALembic in Europe on different Music exhibitions. Paul the bad one | ||
| kenbass4
Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andy, I believe Mica's explanation was that the maple begins to look dirty due to the strings (and fingers!) contacting the fretboard constantly. Ken (TEO) | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 349 Registered: 7-2002 |
The reason we don't like maple fretboards is that over time they pick up a lot of dirt & sweat, and end up looking very crappy. We don't want to see that on our instruments. Ebony lasts much longer too. Having said that, you can always ask if you have any particular wood in mind for the fretboard. Mica says that, soundwise, on a fretted Alembic you do not notice the difference in fretboard woods very much. On a fretless, of course, you do. On Alembics in general, the woods used in the neck are still what dominates the sound. Valentino | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2004 |
Ah, dirty fingerboards. OK, that is a sensible reason to avoid them. I hadn't thought of that, perhaps because I don't play enough. Or maybe I don't sweat enough! ;-) EffClef | ||
| rogertvr
Intermediate Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 195 Registered: 1-2003 |
On the subject of different fingerboard woods, Rickenbacker of course lacquered theirs. I think my 4001 is rosewood - or is it walnut (I stand to be corrected on that). Can't remember exactly...anyway, the point I am trying to make is.......... .........Is it possible for Alembic customers to choose any fingerboard wood they like and if they want to protect it from dirt and grime, have it lacquered? Rog (Message edited by rogertvr on February 25, 2004) | ||
| kenbass4
Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2003 |
Roger, (was surprised to see your post in the alt.rickenbacker group, btw) The 4001 is rosewood and lacquered. Interesting enough, according to Valentino, Coco Bolo is a rosewood variation. (hmmmm...maybe that coco bolo fingerboard is a good choice...) Ken (TEO) | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 351 Registered: 7-2002 |
Roger, Sorry, but Susan says...no. To quote her "I see many problems and no benefits." I've seen many lacquered fingerboards where the lacquer cracked and looked pretty bad. Plus you'd likely have to re-lacquer the fingerboard whenever the instrument was up for a re-fret. The best way to keep the dirt & grime off the fretboard is to play with clean hands and wiping it off with a clean cloth every time after playing, plus, of course using lemon oil periodically for a more thorough cleaning. Valentino | ||
| poor_nigel
Junior Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 45 Registered: 7-2003 |
I actually appreciate this answer. I live in northern Maine. Everyone here is a handy man, no one is a crafts man (Crafts person - sorry ladies). I took a couple of aluminum rack panels into a machine shop in this area. I wanted some precision holes cut for fans. They used a cutting torch - I kid you not! I said cut, and that is what they did. I got real stupid looks when I told em to keep the panels I just paid $60 a piece for and put them where they would be most useful. I wanted a thin brass plate made to fit under the new bridge I bought for my Tobias to get it up to the right height. I spent close to $100 getting it milled by a machinist in Chicago, simply because there is no one in this 'neck of the woods' who is a proper machinist. Piece came in milled to .005" of specs sent, gauranteed. Ridiculously expensive for a simple brass plate, but worth every penny spent. A real crafts person will tell you no when you want something made that should not be. They will do it right, or not at all, as they take a lot of pride in their work. As time goes on, there are fewer and fewer crafts persons around, and lots more handy persons. So I sincerely appreciate the no quoted above. Please excuse me. I have to get back to building the solar-powered sun lamps I promised the locals I would make for em. I don't want to lose integrity by not getting them whacked out in time . . . . | ||
| ajdover
Junior Username: ajdover Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have a '76 Rickenbacker 4001, and I've never had a problem with the lacquered fingerboard. I think it still looks great after almost 30 years ... no cracks whatsoever. Of course, I take care of it, and the previous owner(s)obviously did as well. And, I must say, there's no bass on the planet that sounds like a Rick, not even an Alembic. This is both a good and bad thing IMHO. I find I can't use it for stuff requiring a more rounded, jazzy tone, but for the rock, high treble type stuff, with a lot of punch, it's awesome. Anyway, I played Ricks in high school, so I keep one around for nostalgia's sake. My '73 Jazz recently went through a re-fret, and had to be re-sprayed. It's one of the black block inlay maple necks, and the only reason I got it re-sprayed was due to the need for a refret. Personally, the "dirt and grime" doesn't bother me much, but I can see where it might bother others. Now, my '74-'75 Ripper is another story. Lots of lacquer checking on that one, but oddly enough, it plays extremely well, and has a unique sound. I'm almost tempted not to have it refinished for fear of ruining it in someway. It's beat, lots of nicks and scratches, but it's just a beast and I love it. My '79 Musicman is in for a refret as well, but only due to some problems with the neck. Apparently, the truss rod can't be adjusted enough to make the upper part of the neck straight where the frets won't buzz. Basically, it's like a ski ramp, with the upper part of the neck bent up a bit, requiring a planing of the neck and a refret. Oddly enough, the finish is still great after 25 years. Of course, none of them is an Alembic. 'Nuff said. Alan | ||
| bob
Intermediate Member Username: bob Post Number: 147 Registered: 11-2002 |
"solar-powered sun lamps" ... Thanks, nigel (aka Thomas), that was easily my chuckle for the day. For those of you who may not have been here long enough, when Susan says "No", you simply don't argue (nor for that matter, when she tells you "this is what would be best..."). As you've undoubtedly seen, Alembic will go to extraordinary lengths to try new things and satisfy each person's tastes, but they absolutely will not compromise on quality, or their reputation for such - and as poor_nigel says, that's a treat these days. -Bob | ||
| 811952
Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alan, Use the neck pickup and play with the filter settings a bit and you've got your Rickenbacker. For that "splat" sound the Rick gets when you play hard and the pickups saturate, run through a tube preamp with the gain on the high side and you can duplicate that as well. The Rickenbacker is an exceptionally even-sounding bass across the neck. You can make an Alembic sound like a Rick that's gone through a wee bit of limiting and compression very easily. Engineers love it. Really. They do. I'm not kidding. Really. John | ||
| cdf
Junior Username: cdf Post Number: 44 Registered: 5-2003 |
poor nigel, Can order some "solar powered sunlamps" from you? Am still smiling at that one. It reminds me of when I was in college and my father you to joke that I was studying underwater fire prevention. | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2004 |
CDF - you can have an underwater fire if there's phosphorus (and probably sodium) involved! Ken - the Ric fingerboards I believe are bubinga. Could have sworn I saw a post to that effect by John Hall on alt.rickenbacker some time back. One reason Ric boards may wear especially well is the frets seem extra jumbo, so the strings don't rub against the lacquer when you fret the notes. I'm really happy to see Ric still in business and still making basses in the USA. Neck-through and good attention to quality, too. I've got a near-mint 2001 midnight blue 4003S/5 which I probably wouldn't mind selling...maybe trade for a fretted Essence +/- cash to make up the difference. Maybe I should post on the swap page here. EffClef | ||
| cdf
Junior Username: cdf Post Number: 45 Registered: 5-2003 |
effclef - Magnesium probably would do the trick too, also any reaction hot enough to break the molecular bonds and liberate the water's oxygen. Well kinda off topic, but interesting. More topically, I have an old kramer guitar (not especially nice) with a lacquered maple board. After several years I wore through the lacquer in many spots ( a couple dings in there too) and while I don't mind the look so much it does feel kinda uneven in places. | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2003 |
EffClef, I remember seeing that somewhere, about the bubinga fingerboard. I used to have a 4001, and that is certainly what it looked like... I had a MusicMan (pre EB) stingray fretless with a maple fingerboard for awhile. That's right, a fretless with a finished maple fingerboard (unlined). I wore holes through the laquer and into the maple pretty quickly, then into the wood. It must have been the same soft sugar maple the neck was made from. It was ugly and didn't work out so well. I should have had a new fingerboard put on it, but instead I sold it for cheap... I've recently given away a 5-string jazz bass I had built for me in '86 with a maple board. I couldn't stand playing on it either. Literally gave it to the neighbor kid who has shown an interest in bass... I'm with Susan... John | ||
| kenbass4
Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andy and John, The 4004 (and variations thereof) have a bubinga fingerboard. The 4001 (and now 4003) have a Rosewood fingerboard. They may have had some variations of the 4001 that had bubinga, but mine is definately rosewood. Ken (TEO) | ||
| zappahead
Member Username: zappahead Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ive seen plenty of places that use Bubinga, Coco Bolo, Macassar Ebony, Snake Wood,Purpleheart and Pink Ivory and a few others Im forgetting Im sure. Id imagine most or all of those could be had on an Alembic. I would say that a maple fretboard does indeed look dirty over time, but Id have to say that maybe its a difference between guitar players and bass players because most guitar players I meet with maple fretboards actually like the "dirty" look. Fender makes a small fortune off of creating that dirty look on the custom shop instruments. The one place I saw that had amazing fretboards for guitars is timtone's website. He uses bookmatched Coco Bolo and I think they look very nice. Never played one, but they are visually striking. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1099 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother John, I have this great idea. I'll move over as the new neighbor-kid. I'm -obviously interested in bass- so the next bass you throw out of the window ...yeah right!!! Paul the bad one | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 105 Registered: 10-2003 |
Paul TBO, You're welcome to move in. Better yet, I'll move over there! I don't think you'll like the junk I pass out to the neighborhood kids though. I mean, this bass is, well... it's got a maple fingerboard! His family is great. They will give me a hand with anything, so it was the least I could do. Anyway, I'd love to live in Belgium. I spent one night there in '77 drinking with a Dutch friend of mine. The cobblestone streets nearly did me in! The Beer was awesome... As for this thread, I've played a bunch of basses with Pau Ferro boards and seem to recall that they all had a throaty midrange growl. I've owned two basses with purpleheart fingerboards which had a nice full range sound with lots of fundamental and crisp harmonics. I imagine cocobolo would be similar to purpleheart and maybe even a tad brighter.. John | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1100 Registered: 9-2002 |
Damn John ...you trapped me! I LOVE maple fingerboards. My first decent bass was a Tele with maple fingerboard. I loved the Curlees ...remember?? My secret-project-of-which-I-can't-say-much-yet-because-it's-too-early has to do with maple. The point is that I have a kind of hand-palm disorder/disease: they are DRY ...too dry to be healthy in fact. The positive side on this is that my hands don't leave dirt on strings or neck. As for string worn: the project will have 'd Addario half-wounds! So I can live with maple-neck junk, especially as they come falling out of the window! LOL Paul the bad one | ||
| dnburgess
Intermediate Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 186 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have really enjoyed playing my demo Excel with Pau Ferro fingerboard. It does indeed have a nice "throaty midrange growl" as John says - I attributed that to the set neck construction, but maybe the fingerboard has something to do with it too. | ||
| dnburgess
Intermediate Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 187 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have really enjoyed playing my demo Excel with Pau Ferro fingerboard. It does indeed have a nice "throaty midrange growl" as John says - I attributed that to the set neck construction, but maybe the fingerboard has something to do with it too. David B. | ||
| effclef
Junior Username: effclef Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2004 |
Ken - looks like you are right! Ric's site lists it as rosewood. I know I have a 2001 catalog in the case so I will have to check it - I could have sworn my 4003S/5 fingerboard has that Bubinga shimmer to it. Must be the lacquer on rosewood doing it. Just proves that Alembic's WOOD CARD is priceless, too - sure beats one's memory! EffClef | ||
| rogertvr
Intermediate Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 196 Registered: 1-2003 |
I've been a little busy over the last few days...but to quote Valentino's post... "Roger, Sorry, but Susan says...no. To quote her "I see many problems and no benefits." I've seen many lacquered fingerboards where the lacquer cracked and looked pretty bad. Plus you'd likely have to re-lacquer the fingerboard whenever the instrument was up for a re-fret. The best way to keep the dirt & grime off the fretboard is to play with clean hands and wiping it off with a clean cloth every time after playing, plus, of course using lemon oil periodically for a more thorough cleaning. Valentino" I've owned my 4001 since August 1981. It was built in October 1980 and I was the first owner. Obviously instruments take a little time to traverse The Pond! I have never ever had any trouble with either the neck, the frets or anything else on my 4001. Years ago I remember reading horror stories about string gauges etc etc. I settled down to 35-55-75-95 roundwound (Elites Stadium Stainless Steel) around 1990 (after many frustrated sets of Rotosound strings - they were rubbish) and I've stuck with Elites ever since. My 4001 is played regularly and whilst it has some fret wear, there is nothing serious. I don't understand these postings I see on the net where people are saying that they owned a 4001 and after 6 months the neck went all out of shape or the frets wore down to the fingerboard. The main point of my post here is that Rickenbacker, in my own case, have created a very beautiful instrument that I would run into a burning building to save. This isn't the first time I've said this in this club. That same instrument has a lacquered fingerboard that is still intact and shows no signs of age, damage or wear. It does not need re-fretting and from what I can see, it never will. Not in my lifetime anyway... I remember playing a Gibson Grabber (?) many many years ago - it was a nice blonde maple colour but I thought that over time the whole instrument would tarnish. Nice bass, just not the sound for me and I was worried it would dis-colour in time anyway. Surely it should be possible for a customer to order whatever they want regarding fingerboard wood, lacquered or not? Rickenbacker can manage it - I'm sure Alembic could do it too and ensure that it stays clean and the lacquer stays intact? Best regards as always folks! Roger the Dragon one! | ||
| ajdover
Junior Username: ajdover Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2003 |
I've got to agree with Roger here. Like I noted in a previous post, I've had no problems whatsoever with my 4001, and it's nearly 30 years old. I previously owned two other 4001s (black, natural) in the 70's and early '80s, and I never had a problem with those basses either. Now, I don't play my Rick as much as I do my other basses, but still, I don't see a problem with lacquered fingerboards. On the other hand, I can understand why Susan and others don't want to do it - if it's not taken care of, or done right, it can wear badly and look horrible. This being said, I think Rickenbacker does it right - that's why their instruments look like they do after years of use. For my part, I like both unlacquered and lacquered fingerboards, so it's not a big deal to me. Alan (Message edited by ajdover on February 27, 2004) | ||
| rockandroller
Member Username: rockandroller Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2002 |
didn't Alembic do a bass with a 'special request' finish once? (dragged behind a harley for a couple of miles!) or is that just a myth? | ||
| rogertvr
Intermediate Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 198 Registered: 1-2003 |
Good to see you Michael - did you know the e-mail address listed in your profile bounces? I've tried to write to you a couple of times but it just gets returned. Hope to hear from you soon! Cheers, Rog | ||
| the_mule
Junior Username: the_mule Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2004 |
I've got a fretted full maple necked 1977 Fender Precision that's still in a great condition. But I believe there's definitely some truth in the difference in quality that's been produced by Fender and other companies over the years. I've surely seen some dirty necks in the past! | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2003 |
I recall reading in a Guitar Player interview with John Paul Jones back in the late '70s that he had worked with Alembic on removable fingerboards made out of aluminum, but that they weren't viable for reasons he didn't elaborate. It was the same article where he described the 30-inch speaker Multivox (I think) built for him, that sounded like crap... | ||
| effclef
Member Username: effclef Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2004 |
A couple of years ago, I saw a Series bass on eBay which had removable fingerboards. I wasn't sure if it was an aftermarket job or something - wonder if it was legit? He had a fretless stainless steel one if I remember right. I am still curious about the wood in the fingerboard in the picture here. EffClef | ||
| susan
Moderator Username: susan Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2002 |
Greetings All, Here are some comments, updates etc on the various preceeding posts. On special requests by the customer whether it's for a fingerboard, scale length, wood, body change etc., we try to please the customers desire for the instrument he has proably been thinking about for years. The exceptions to this are when we feel that it will not be a servicable modification i.e. be careful what you wish for, someone might give it to you. My policies regarding this position are based on early experiences with giving some people what they wanted against my better judgement only to have them unhappy with the instrument later and somehow forgetting I tried to disuade them from that path. The result was an unhappy customer and an instrument that has our name on it, the absolute antithesis of what we try to acheive. I have had some customers go to other builders after I have declined a request only to come back at a later date having sold the other bass and order the one recommended previously. Bottomline-If I or Mica say it's not a good idea, it probably isn't. Yes we worked w/JPJ on that project at his request, I personally never was very keen ot it or the removable magnetic fingerboard project either. I think multi-tasking is best left for other things not instruments. We have made fingerboards out of other materials all that were mentioned in a previous post. We choose ebony for it sound, durablity and strength. We don't like laquer since it does wear off and looks "crappy" as Val said. We like the oiled fingerboard as on classical instruments, there is less drag when played and if cared for looks great in 50 years or more. We did make a few maple fingerboards. In the early 80's John Lodge wanted a "Blonde" Bass. It was Series II Satinwood top & back, vermilion accent pinstripes, maple core, maple neck with vermilion pinstipes, maple fingerboard, mother of pearl ovals. Yes we did a few strange requests for my Norwewgian distributor Trond Trufte. One of them was a black instrument that was dragged about the parking lot to give it a road rash look. He wanted it to look like a Harley that had skidded on the pavement. Rickenbachers? Love 'em, both basses and guitars especially a Rick 12 string guitar. They were a source of inspiration, afterall we are all products of what has come before us to a degree. We just try to find our own path and voice both in instrument making as well as playing dontcha think? -Susan | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 284 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hi Susan!!! Very well said!!! I'm glad you spoke up and elaborated on this. You know before I do any kind of modification to anything, let's say for instance I'm tearing a wall down in my house, I always ask someone who has many years of experience first so they can tell me what to do and NOT to do. In this case my dad. Good ol pop advised me before I go cutting anything to find ALL of the wiring in the wall because he knew that was a ride to the hospital for me. HAH!!! Like Nigel had said earlier. It takes a true craftsman to say NO to something they feel shouldn't be done. This is why we call on your expertise. Now can I call you and Mica about putting a third story dormer on the house or should we stop at the basses.... HA!!! BTW-I remember that bass for John Lodge. Wasn't that in your catalog at one point? Peace, Dino | ||
| effclef
Member Username: effclef Post Number: 55 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dino - for reference in tearing a wall down there's a particular Fawlty Towers episode where John Cleese fumes over just such a thing done by a contractor... ;-) Susan: can you identify the fingerboard here? Looks like Rosewood to me. EffClef PS "Manuel!!!!!!!" | ||
| susan
Moderator Username: susan Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dino, Yes that particular instrument for John Lodge was featured in an older catalog, nice of you to remember. And as Mica can attest to I have no problem with the word No. BTW- I handle all the remodeling on the homefront and actually I did design a Catherdral Dormer for our 106 year old little farmhouse along with the stairs to acess the remodel of the attic space. The guy doing the remodel said it couldn't be done. He wanted the stairs cutting through the dinng area, no I said, my house is small enough without that. I drew out a double turn stairway with a dormer for the headroom needed at the top, put in a long window with a half circle on top in the stairwells outside wall for additional light, worked well. -Susan | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 286 Registered: 7-2002 |
Susan, I knew I could count on you!!!! Our house was built in 1891. We've had a few contractors and architects come in and tell us that an addition can be done but it wouldn't be worth it. Maybe I should talk to you instead in terms of designing the addition. Sorry to get way off the subject too. Dino | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2003 |
Susan, I'd like to see your stairs. I just built my house mostly by my own (and my lovely wife's) hand, so I can appreciate someone's creativity (I own an Alembic, for Pete's sake!). And I will accept if you say "No." | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1155 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother John ...you have to admit that "Susan , I'd like to see your stairs" is ...well ...huh ...kinda weird statement (iff out of context of course). Paul the bad one | ||
| mdrdvp
Member Username: mdrdvp Post Number: 100 Registered: 7-2002 |
Paul, can you stop doing that. It's too early in the morning to laugh so loud. You are killing me. Manfred | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2003 |
Paul TBO, You are one twisted man... :-) John |
