| Author | Message | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2628 Registered: 6-2002 |
[This thread was started with postings from the Jimmy "Flim" Johnson Showcase thread, which had evolved into a separate line of discussion.] | ||
| kungfusheriff
Senior Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 939 Registered: 8-2003 |
IME Boomers die almost instantly. The best sounds I've had from an Alembic bass came out of DR strings. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 736 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have to agree with kungfusheriff. I put my Series I away for a while when I was frustrated with the tone. I forget what strings were on it. Then I went through a massive string search and ended up getting an endorsement from DR (yes, I still pay for my strings) and loved them. When I put Sunbeams on the Series I, it was like having a new bass and the bottom end all of a sudden came to life. After that, I couldn't put it down (until it messed up my shoulder). I would have liked to try it with the DR flats. Edwin | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 317 Registered: 5-2002 |
Edwin, recognizing how difficult it is to type about these things, have you ever A/B'ed HiBeams and Sunbeams? I've used HiBeams on my Series bass for years and loved them, but lately I've been wanting to warm up my tone a bit by toning down the high end. Any thoughts? | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 765 Registered: 5-2002 |
I tried some HiBeams briefly a long time ago and decided they weren't for me. The Sunbeams sound smoother and feel better. I guess I just prefer nickel strings! SS feels a little rougher and harsher. I also think the nickel might add some to the very lows, but that might be due to other factors I was facing when switching between the sets. I've got the Alembic strings on my new S1 and am thinking about swapping them out for some Sunbeams to see what that difference is. I am pretty amazed at the amount of tension on the Alembic strings, given that this is a short scale. | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2002 |
I really like Alembic strings on my Series basses. Other than the original R. Cocco strings I don't think I've ever found a string that gets closer to the tone I'm looking for. (I haven't tried the new R.Coccos, btw). Alas, though, for me the Alembics don't seem to last nearly as long as DR's, and since I am lazy DR's are my compromise option. | ||
| jos
Junior Username: jos Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2009 |
Ghs Boomers are great for Alembics they have great mids and great low end, to me they sound massive. Elixir is also great because it’s the same string with coating. Try to record something on tape and then compare to other strings. It’s also good to know that when you buy a set of 45-105 some strings feels really stiff and some other smooth, one of the reasons is that not all 45`s are 45`s some are actually 44 or43 you know it feels smoother and are better for you but actually the thing is that you by thinner strings. Please record with different strings in same gauge and you notice the difference. Strings also sound different depending on the distance between tuners and “string holder” (where the string starts from in the body of the bass, hope you know what I mean) the longer the difference is tighter the string gets, it also usually sounds better or actually its better to say rings longer. (Now we are only talking about 34`basses). I used to use Boomers on my Fender but they did not work too well, but once I did put them on my Alembics it was just perfect. Alembic basses have so much high end that I do not need any more from my strings. Boomers has high end too. …Just what’s needed for my Alembics? All The Best, J-O-S | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2627 Registered: 6-2002 |
I remember putting Boomers on my Epic after the Alembic strings that came on the bass had gone dull (after many, many months). I was used to Boomers on my Yamaha neck-through, but they sounded horrible on the Epic. Hm, perhaps Boomers are for neck-throughs? | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 795 Registered: 10-2006 |
No, the distance from nut to tuner does not effect tension. Tension is a function of the mass, length, and pitch of the speaking part of the string only. Change one of those and you'll have different tension; leave everything nut to saddle the same and tension will be the same. Peter | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1378 Registered: 11-2004 |
I use fence wire, from the large ranch type down to the thin garden type for climbing plants. Knot at the end for the bridge and a securing bolt on the tuning head(sure gnarls up the post) Tension is attained by using a turnbuckle and when they rust I use steel wool and metal polish as boiling them makes them rust more. The neck on my bass has become a little bowed but it certainly makes for an interesting playing technique and really strengthens up the forearm muscles, finger tendons and produced great callouses on the fingertips. The sound is interesting..a lovely low toneless thud that the filters really have to work to get any sort of musical tone from them. The good news is that they last forever! (Message edited by TerryC on October 15, 2010) | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2632 Registered: 6-2002 |
Peter, I'm no physicist, but I can't imagine the tension on the string core can be different along the length of the string. You may measure different directional tensions where the string makes an angle (bridge, nut, tuning peg) but the resulting overall tension should be the same. Terry - how's about the barbed stuff? | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1379 Registered: 11-2004 |
adriaan..I tried the barbed type but it tends to wear the fretboard prematurely so I stuck with the standard smooth stuff | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 773 Registered: 5-2002 |
Peter, I totally agree with you on a theoretical level, but if my Starfire and my shorty Series I are the same scale why does the tension feel different with the same make and model strings on them? Maybe there's some other thing going on that feels like a tension difference but might be some other factor. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9730 Registered: 5-2002 |
Edwin; do you notice that difference with your left hand, right hand, or both? | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 798 Registered: 10-2006 |
Adriaan; I'm not saying that you'll find different tension outside the nut-saddle length, I'm saying that to achieve a given pitch on a given string at a given scale, there will only be one tension that will work. It will be same over the whole string, but changing the length outside the speaking part will not vary it. Edwin; that's interesting. Maybe the differences other than scale (profile, radius, etc.) causes it? Dave; good question! Peter | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2506 Registered: 3-2004 |
I've been enjoying chromes on the short scale for years. I would like to try something in the coated string category, but I don't see any made in shorter scale lengths. Sunbeams might be worth a try - does anyone know if the "short scale" versions fit an SC bass? I liked the Fat Beams on my old Persuader 5. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 851 Registered: 3-2004 |
Speaking of coated strings, has anyone tried these http://www.cleartonestrings.com/? | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1531 Registered: 9-2002 |
In thirty years, I've never found a string I couldn't live without. I've never used tape wounds, but that's about it. They all go dead too fast, it's just that simple. After a week, the all sound alike to me. Tension-wise, I've never had a problem, never thought about it until I began playing a five-string in the 80's till now. There is no good answer for making the B feel like the other four in conventional scale lengths. I was never willing to go to 35- or 36-inch scale instruments for one string. I've gotten quite used to the way it feels, and really never think about it. At one time in the four-string days, I preferred a bigger D and G, opting for a 50-70-85-105 set from individual Boomers. I worked in a store and could experiment with different guages as we stocked individual Bass Boomers in that big wooden box that GHS used then for their assortments. Looking back, I'm really not sure I really heard or felt any difference: I'm not compelled to do that today. I've really decided I' rather change cheaper strings faster (D'Aquistos are GREAT cheap strings) than shell out more money for a DR Marcus Miller or Thomastik set and ride them longer. J o e y | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 778 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dave, I notice the tension difference with both hands. After playing for a while on the new bass, I think it might be a psychological effect from the fact that the Alembic is a neck through with the typical Alembic construction while the Starfire is a set neck with all mahogany construction. The Starfire absorbs a lot of the string's sound while the Alembic reflects it back into the string, giving a livelier tone that makes me think there is more tension. I can't really think of any better reason for it. I wonder if there is a way to measure it objectively. All I know is that they both sound very nice indeed! Edwin | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9746 Registered: 5-2002 |
Interesting observation Edwin. Since the neck-through keeps more of the strings' energy in the strings, as opposed to a set-neck or bolt-on, there should be a difference in the physical vibration of the strings; and if so, then perhaps that difference can be felt by the fingers. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1353 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin & Dave ; Having had a Starfire for many decades as well as solid body bass's both neck throughs and bolt on neck Bass's as well as a Double Bass I am very sensitive to string tension as well. I have observed a Pyscho-Acoustic phenomenon with flat wound strings on my Starfire and my Double Bass. On my Starfire I like the Snap that I get with Pyramid Gold flat wounds and on my Double Bass I liked Thomastik Spirocore. ( i say liked because I sold it ) I think there is a correlation with flat-wound strings and the mechanical response that one experiences with a hollow body Bass. What are your thoughts on this . does it make sense to you ? Edwin , what kind of strings do you like on your Starfire ? (Message edited by sonicus on October 20, 2010) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9747 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wolf; you may have read this thread before, but just in case I thought I would link to it. The thread doesn't address your question about hollow bodies, but it does talk about how body woods absorb energy. I don't know the answer but my guess would be that if you had two set-neck instruments that were the same except that one was a hollow body and one was a solid body, the solid body would absorb more of the strings' energy. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1354 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes Dave I agree, and I would speculate as well that because of the difference in mass between the hollow body and any solid body would account for a difference in the transient attack that is encountered that would account for the perceived response time correlating in variations of string tension even of the same gauge and string length. Thanks for the link Dave . I will read it. | ||
| nnek
Junior Username: nnek Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2009 |
Is the Starfire really a set neck? Mine has the same stringers behind the pickups as are in the neck. When I was young and stupid I routed out fer a 2nd &3rd pickup as well as a very early badass... I saw those stringers neck to strap pin. Nnek | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2635 Registered: 6-2002 |
Peter - to return to your last post, "I'm not saying that you'll find different tension outside the nut-saddle length, I'm saying that to achieve a given pitch on a given string at a given scale, there will only be one tension that will work. It will be same over the whole string, but changing the length outside the speaking part will not vary it." Well, try and imagine you can slide the tailpiece of your Alembic back and forth. If you slide it back, you're stretching the string, so this will increase the tension, and therefore increase the pitch. To get the same pitch with the longer distance between bridge and tailpiece, you would actually have to tune down (decrease the tension). Think of a tremolo bridge, you're making pretty minimal changes in the speaking length, with already noticeable effects on pitch, as well as on tension and stiffness - especially if you go dive-bombing EVH style. So I'm not surprised that there is a difference in both tension and stiffness, between a one-piece bridge and a two-piece set. Or for through-body stringing, for that matter. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9748 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adriaan; but when you tune back down to pitch won't you be back at the same tension you started with? I tend to agree with Peter, changing the distance from the bridge saddle to the tailpiece doesn't change the tension when the string is tuned to pitch. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 805 Registered: 10-2006 |
A Strat-type tremelo tailpiece changes 2 of the 3 determinants of pitch; tension & (minimally) scale. A Bigsby-type changes only the tension. All these changes are within the speaking length, and are directly intended to change pitch by changing tension (a properly set-up Strat-type would ideally pivot at the saddle-to-string contact, thus leaving scale alone, but it's not a perfect design). At no time does the distance from saddle to anchor point change. Your tailpiece-sliding argument actually makes my point nicely. If you move the tailpiece with the string attached (without changing scale or string mass), thus stretching the string, you're changing the tension of the whole string, including the speaking length. You then would have to adjust the tuner to the original tension within the speaking length to get the original pitch. Peter | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2636 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hm, good point, Dave - let me be the first to admit that I do not have all the answers. My thoughts start to run wild - that we're not factoring in the mass - longer piece of string, more mass - and what about stiffness - the string may well feel loose, even at the same tension? | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2637 Registered: 6-2002 |
Peter - in your last sentence, the bit about the tension "within the speaking length" makes no sense, if e accept that the tension is the same over the entire length of the string. Other than that, you've convinced me.  | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 806 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes, the tension is the same across the whole string - but only the speaking length matters. And you're right, it would probably have been clearer without that. I'd strike it out, but I'm too late to edit that one. Peter | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 479 Registered: 12-2004 |
"IME Boomers die almost instantly. The best sounds I've had from an Alembic bass came out of DR strings." I've had very similar experience. My preference is DR Lowriders. I wind up using Elixer nanoweb strings because they last me several months. Lowriders last me a week - sometimes two. I play quite a bit. In my experience Boomers, Ernie Ball, and Rotosounds all sound good for about a gig. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9749 Registered: 5-2002 |
Peter and Adriaan; here's a blast from the past. In the linked thread, Bob Novy has a great piece on the subject. I'm sure you guys will remember this one once you start reading; you both were part of the thread. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 807 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah, Dave, I was remembering that one as I was typing this one. Peter | ||
| cosmic
Member Username: cosmic Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2005 |
I've found medium gauge Dadarrio Half Rounds sound real nice on my Modulus basses and Alembic Spoilers. They are bright, but not too bright and seem to maintain good tone as they age. Additonally, the half round is a nice compromise when I switch on the fly between a pick and my fingers. |
