| Author | Message | ||
| the_mule
Junior Username: the_mule Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2004 |
I've been looking around, using the search function, but I haven't been able to find any clear photographs that sufficiently show the difference between 'maple ghost frets' & 'maple side lines' on fretless basses. I can imagine how it more or less should be looking, but I'd really like to see some close up pictures of both. Another question: aren't there any problems with those two very different woods, ebony and maple, maybe reacting differently to changes in temperature/humidity? Thanks alot! | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1267 Registered: 9-2002 |
Broeder Wilfred ...hoe ist-ie??? Look at http://www.alembic.com/info/FC_tiger.html IMHO It's one of the mosy beautiful fretless sixstrings ever made (pity of the pointed headstock). There are the maple "Side-lines". It was once an idea of mine to use the side lines + a short front line on the fretboard .So that the side line went through in a short front line that just stayed ABOVE the lowest (upper) string. Paul TBO | ||
| the_mule
Junior Username: the_mule Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2004 |
Broeder Paul, met mij zeer goed, en met u hopelijk hetzelfde? Wow, that example looks really nice! I think I prefer this instead of maple ghost frets. Just one big ebony surface without inlays or fretlines sure looks great! Hmm, my idea of a Blonde 'budget' Stanley Clarke (Dreaming, for now...) becomes more and more attractive every hour! I might even send EvH an informative e-mail soon... | ||
| goatfoot
Junior Username: goatfoot Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've been wondering about the possiblity of LED-side lines, instead of maple. I think that would be functional and cool. Mica, would this be possible? One question about side-lines or ghost frets though. Wouldn't the intonation change if the bass was set up differently? I've been wondering about this since I'm about to change strings on my BB-fretless and I thought that the pitch might change ever-so-slightly from the LED/silver circle markers I have at the 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc. "fret." Kevin | ||
| adriaan
Intermediate Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kevin, I don't know what kind of group you play in, but if there are any horns in it, and they're serious about what they're doing, from time to time they'll try out some stuff to get the harmonies right - not so much the notes they're supposed to play but the intonation of those notes. You can do this on a fretless as well: you go just a bit flat or sharp to get the best sounding overall harmonies - this works over the whole range of tones, so it's worthwhile checking what you can do at the low end. Make sure you don't clash with the trombones (two ways). Position markers are just that, they're not fret replacements. | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 328 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've heard it mentioned that the tone might be affected by "Ghost lines" as they produce an inconsistent surface over the board and the Bass may be more difficult to intonate. Speaking only from my own experience, I have never heard any difference between a lined or unlined fretless Bass. Whether the lines are inlaid, gooved, or painted on. I think it's simply due to the fact that the lines are so narrow with respect to the string surface over them to have any effect on the tone. I personally prefer the look of the unlined fretless fingerboard, but I do appreciate the usefulness of "Ghost lines". I have a lined fretless Essence that I absolutely love and play often. But I do prefer the look of the unlined boards of my other Alembics. It's a matter of personal taste and what you feel most comfortable playing. Rami | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 408 Registered: 7-2002 |
On my 2 fretless Alembics I have side leds at the usual marker locations, then I have aluminum dots at every other position. I love the way it looks even with the leds off. I 'll see about posting a picture of it sometime next week. If I had to go with no leds , then I 'd probably get aluminum dots in the usual spots and bronze markers at the other positions. Valentino | ||
| wideload
Junior Username: wideload Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2003 |
I have a lined fretless Yamaha that I play only now and then, and I regret the lines. For me, I would have been better off with only position markers on the side. Since it is a sometimes instrument, I have a tendency to play with my eyes first instead of my ears! | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 210 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have to agree with Wideload here - I bought (new) a Westone Thunder 1A Fretless years ago (1986 I think it was). I bought that particular instrument because I wasn't sure I would take to fretless bass and it didn't cost too much money. Basically - I could afford to write the cost off if fretless wasn't for me. It has the position markers down the side of the neck and nothing else. I wouldn't have it any other way - I learnt to play it - no ghost frets or side lines. From my own point of view, there is no way I would want a fretless that had some sort of fret markers on it. Surely part of the challenge is learning to play the instrument for what it is without having ghost frets or whatever to help? Just my opinion folks! Cheers, Roger | ||
| bracheen
Advanced Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 377 Registered: 11-2003 |
I might as well jump in here. My Fender Jazz has fret lines that are a big help to me. The side position markers are not in the fret position but in between just like on a fretted bass. There are no inlays or markers on the fingerboard. Like Larry's Yamaha this is an occasional instrument. It's main use to me is helping to make my ear better. Without the fret lines I would have been constantly out of tune. Now when I play with my ear and not my eyes I can hear when my fingers drift. I can then get a visual reference to get back on track. Now to agree with the other side. If my skill level were such that the lines weren't needed I would definitely go with the clean, lineless look. Sam | ||
| the_mule
Junior Username: the_mule Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2004 |
http://www3.alembic.com/img/kent_sidelines.jpg Thanks for the useful reactions so far already. BTW: this is the image of the maple side lines brother Paul was referring to in the second post. Personally I think it's a nice, understated way to help me find the right position on the fretboard. The lines are on the same positions as the frets would have been, but the ebony surface is clean and undisturbed. I'm pretty unexperienced when it comes to fretless playing, but I just love the sound and the possibilities it would give me in addition to my current (fretted) Orion. With the side lines the chances of it being a disappointment in the end are very small. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1276 Registered: 9-2002 |
Starting up my bass project for when I'll be 55 ( in 6 years ...I'll need that time to raise the 10000$ I guess) me too I ask me this question several times : Lined or not. Am idea: you don't have to use maple! In my project I'll ask the Alembicians to use a vivid redwood to use on my Coco-bolo fingerboard. It could also be ebony. I once played a bass where the guy putted in ebony and because of the other dircetion of the wood grain the frest were (barely) visible. In normal lighting position you could use them visually as reference point. In dark (stage) situations not but ...hey ...than the maple lines are not much of a help too! Paul the bad one | ||
| the_mule
Junior Username: the_mule Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2004 |
Brother Paul, redwood ghost frets on a coco bolo fretboard? As good as that sounds at first, just like when you're using maple or ebony you'll have the disadvantage (visually) of the coco bolo's beautiful grain being interrupted quite radically, don't you? With a coco bolo fretboard (very nice option actually) I would definitely go for the side lines... | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 329 Registered: 6-2002 |
Guys! Fretlines are purely cosmetic. There shouldn't be any shame in having them. They're not "Training wheels". They can be very useful. Lets not forget that the "World's Greatest Bass Player" - Jaco had them. Playing a Fretless is about tone and intonation, not about how it looks. Believe me, playing my "Evil Twin" fretless is VERY challenging (unlined 36" scale 6 string), but the decision to go unlined was purely an aesthetic one. Also, I rarely look at the fingerboard when I play. Just experience. Rami | ||
| bob
Intermediate Member Username: bob Post Number: 188 Registered: 11-2002 |
Seems like most of the important points have been made already. Especially for an occasional player (who usually plays fretted), fret lines may be helpful, and they probably won't hurt the sound, and sometimes they even look ok. But personally I think the side lines are a better compromise, assuming you want a little extra help, because to me there's something really special about looking at that big expanse of unmarked ebony (or maybe something else, to each his own). My fretless isn't quite as challenging as Rami's - only 5 strings, 35 1/2 inches :-), and I went with just the standard side dots. The pure, clean look was a given from the start, but for a while I was considering LEDs instead of dots. While I was pondering that, I came to realize that my playing was usually best when I wasn't looking at the fingerboard. You really have to listen carefully, and I think that (at least in my case) devoting some fraction of brain capacity to visually aligning fingers to fret lines is too much of a distraction. Even when I do look, I prefer to be focused on the note/scale pattern in general, rather than where exactly I should position a finger. In fact, having played only fretless for over ten years now, I really have a hard time playing fretted, because there's just too much visual distraction. Plus, it always seems like the damn frets are right where I think my fingers should go. But I suppose that's a pretty extreme case... Coming from the other side, I have a friend (guitar player, but he has a fretted bass just for fun) who stops over and sometimes tries to play my fretless. After the first couple minutes, he always asks, "remind me where I'm supposed to put my fingers - just behind the dot, or right on top?", and the best I can tell him is "it depends". In the first few fret positions (on mine) you have to play a little behind the dot, but halfway up the neck it's more like right over it, and by the time you get up around 17 or so, then you really have to do it by ear. Then again, if I'm playing with a lot of pressure and really into it, sometimes I'll look over and notice that I'm way behind the dot - but the extra pressure, or finger angle, whatever, is handling the intonation just fine. Anyway, the point is just that the lines may offer some helpful hints, but it's not enough to really depend on, and for some people they can actually be a distraction. So if I were considering lines at all, I'd just put them on the side. As always, just my opinion. -Bob |
