| Author | Message | ||
| fungke
Junior Username: fungke Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi guys, I really just wanted some advice about set-up. The action on my Elan is set a little to high for me. Should I go to a good guitar tech (London Bass Centre) or is this easy enough to have a crack at? I noticed on another thread that there was a guy who'd posted a step by step guide on setting up your Alembic. However I've been unable to find it. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Best Regards, Andy. | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 526 Registered: 11-2003 |
Andy, I think that was posted by Joey. Try doing a search by user name Bigredbass. Personally I use a tech for mine. He charges about $10 if there's no neck adjustments needed. Sam | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 761 Registered: 5-2002 |
My opinion is that you should learn to do it yourself. It might take some practice, but you may find it rewarding. It seems to me that once you get the hang of it, you can adjust to where you feel it is right better than someone else can. Plus, I quite often will, in the middle of practice, give the bridge a little quarter or eighth of a turn; and from time to time, tweek a truss rod or two just for a different feel. Here are a couple of threads on set up: http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/4623.html http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/7798.html | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 439 Registered: 12-2002 |
Try lowering your bridge,& or the brass nut (if it's adjustable)it's not that difficult to perform,but make sure your strings are loose during this process. | ||
| dannobasso
Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2004 |
Do it yourself! To keep your bass in top form you need to maintain it from time to time. I would start with backing the truss rod nut to finger tighten, lower the bridge, make sure the nut is seated flush and then go from there. I currently have 13 basses and I do all my own adjustments. It saves time and money. Have a set of tools in your case or bag so you are never in a situation where you can't tweek it when it needs it. It comes in real handy in recording sessions. Danno | ||
| fungke
Junior Username: fungke Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi guys, Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try. I know where to come if I have and more questions  Best Regards, Andy. | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 260 Registered: 9-2003 |
My $0.02. Get it set-up properly (and to your likikng) by a pro, and then take measurements so you can do it yourself. My guitar guy writes down the measurements after a set-up so they can be touched-up in between services (and so he doesn't have to re-invent the wheel on each successive service). | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2003 |
Sorry, duplicate post. (Message edited by kmh364 on July 30, 2004) | ||
| fungke
Junior Username: fungke Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wise words. I did try but I can't really get the set-up I want. I'll take it to a pro, get them to write it all down, so next time I'll have a better chance. The main problem was that I changed string gauge from the 45-65-85-105 down to 40-60-80-100. I raised the bridge and nut slightly to try and compensate but now the action is too high, specially for slap. When I try to lower it, I get fret buzz all the way from the 1st to the 5th. I took the opportunity to give her a bit of clean and polish. I'll give it one more try today and if I can't 'get-it' i'll hand her over to a pro. Regards, Andy. | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2004 |
That suggests you should do one of two things. First, since the strings are lighter, they are probably also looser to get in tune. That means less string pressure on the neck, and you might need to add some back-bow with a truss rod adjustment to compensate. Second, if the action is too low at the fifth fret but good at the twelfth, I would raise the nut a bit and leave the bridge alone, or lower it once you get the fifth fret problem cleared up. I would check the truss rods first, though. | ||
| dannobasso
Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2004 |
Take a little time to work with it and see how your bass reacts. The beauty is that Alembics have so many adjustment options. Stick with it and you'll become very comfortable with maintaining your instrument. The nut can really do the trick in some situations. Plus the added bonus of instant gratification when you tweek it and not having to go to the shop and being without your bass. Danno | ||
| bob
Advanced Member Username: bob Post Number: 282 Registered: 11-2002 |
The phrase 'add some back-bow' might be confusing. If the new strings supply less overall tension (maybe, maybe not) then the neck will become straighter, so you need to loosen the truss rod nuts slightly, allowing it to bend more. That would be consistent with buzz mostly in the first five frets. The nut isn't going to help much with this, so I'd put it back about where it was, try loosening the truss rods an 1/8 or 1/4 turn - without changing anything else - and see if that helps. Then you can try lowering the bridge, maybe fine tune the truss rods a bit and repeat. Take it one step at a time. Getting the neck bow right is the most important step, and it would have been better to start with that, rather than raising both the bridge and nut. The nut is the least important, and until you become comfortable with adjusting truss rods and bridge height, it's best to just think of using it to make sure the open strings don't buzz against the first few frets. That should get you close enough to work through the other stuff. (I agree it's a great feature, Danno, but not the best place to start.) | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 260 Registered: 9-2002 |
Andy: The heart of what you said was 'should I go to a good G U I T A R tech" . . . First, I know great guitar techs that are at a disadvantage when it comes to basses Second, I can easily imagine that in London there are surely qualified people to handle your ALEMBIC. The links back to the previous posts will tell you all you need to know. If the once-over-lightly works for you every couple of years, great. Get it dialed in for your usual strings and have at it. But believe me, ALEMBICS are the easiest instruments upon which to learn adjustment. The adjustable nut, the bridge, the dual truss rods, coupled with the quality of wood and assembly, make it a breeze to learn yourself. If you have very precise hands and touch, teaching yourself means that every time you try a new brand of strings or different guages, you can dial it right back where you want it. If you can feel these tiny differences, doing it yourself will save you a fortune in trips to the tech. Plus these basses are solid enough NOT to require a lot of touch ups once you get it where you want it. If you dive in, believe me, your first couple of trys you'll make it into a real plank. Then it will begin to come to you as you slowly find your way back, the movements and the interaction of relief, string height, nut height, etc. will crystallise in your head, and, voila!, you've got it. This is the normal progression as you learn this. I have never enjoyed playing more since I learned to perfect 'my' setup myself. Most people who try it have NEVER felt action on a bass this nice. And I'm no longer at the mercy of strangers who I just can't seem to explain just where I want it. Enjoy, but don't say we didn't warn you . . . you will pull your hair out for a while at first! J o e y | ||
| jazzyvee
Intermediate Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 143 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have thought about adjusting my alembic to get the action a bit lower especially on the E-string side of my SC. I have adjusted the bridge and lowered that which has helped. As for adjusting the neck my question is, if i make adjustments to the neck are they immediate or do they happen slowly, how much do i need to de-tune the strings to do these adjustments. | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 440 Registered: 12-2002 |
d-tune your strings alittle-bit & when you get to the desired height(adjustment)tune them back-up and see if thats mark . | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 767 Registered: 5-2002 |
It seems to me that how quickly the neck reacts to your adjustments is variable. I think generally you might want to give it a day to settle in. | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2004 |
From my experience, don't try to adjust your truss rods to get the desired height. At least, don't keep turning them until it gets where you want it to be. Truss rod adjustments are basically bending wood. You really should make small adjustments and give them some time to settle before making further adjustments. On other instruments, that has meant no more than one quarter turn or so. I am not sure what Alembic might recommend. The good news is that you shouldn't have to make big adjustments unless the bass has been badly mistreated to get very far out. Oh, and no one has yet pointed this out, but there's some instruction from the factory right here: http://alembic.com/support/care.html. -Bob | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1849 Registered: 6-2000 |
Truss rods are usually the first thing to look at for adjusting setup, at least on an Alembic. Since James and Jon do such a fine job of setting up to begin with, about the only thing that will change is the neck in concert with changes in humidity. It's my opinion that you should not relax your tuning before adjusting - if you do, you'll only make it harder to find your proper bow. Your goal is to "aim" the strings between the pull of the strings and the pull of the truss rod. After you adjust the bow of the neck with the truss rods, you can evaluate if the overall string height is too high or too low for your tastes. Adjust this only at the bridge. At first, you should only adjust in 1/4 or 1/2 turns and adjust both rods the same amount. Later as you gain experience, you'll know how much you'll need to turn just from playing. Always test by playing, and not on your workbench - even a slight pressure on the back of the peghead will indicate bow falsely. Adjustments are immediate, but one adjustment may require another after you get used to the new settings - it's all about focusing in to your desired set up. Also, humidity can change on a daily basis, so if you're using extremely low action, you'll notice extremely small flexes of the neck and you'll need to adjust more often. What does settle in over time is the neck getting used to being a neck. Adjustments are more necessary in the first 2 years, decline some after that and usually only needed at the extreme shifts in humidity after 10 years. This is stuff you may not "get" overnight, But keep trying. Trust Joey and Dave, it is best to learn to do your own setups, because you're the one playing the bass. Of course, when it's your full time job to play, you get to hire a dedicated tech and teach them what you like. | ||
| bob
Advanced Member Username: bob Post Number: 283 Registered: 11-2002 |
If your instrument has been in a stable environment for a while, and you are making a minor adjustment to the truss rods - 1/8 to 1/4 turn - then you should feel/hear most of it immediately. You can also help it along by applying some gentle pressure with your hands to bend the neck in the direction you are trying to move it. Just hold it in normal playing position, brace one arm against the body, and push or pull the neck a little with your fretting hand. For small adjustments like this, you may notice a little settling in over night and decide to tweak it a little more, but you'll see most of the effect right away. Again, that applies if the instrument has been living in the same general heat/humidity environment, you haven't made any major adjustments recently, and you're only changing it slightly. If you switch to a grossly different set of strings or the weather changes, requiring a larger adjustment, then you may need to check and adjust it over the course of a day or two. I also wouldn't be too paranoid about de-tuning. If you're loosening the truss rods a little, I wouldn't bother at all (unless to make it easier to get to the nuts); if I'm tightening, I just bend the neck a little at the same time I'm turning the nuts. I'm more likely to de-tune slightly if I want to raise the bridge 1/4 or 1/2 turn, though maybe not to lower it. Common sense works wonders here - if it feels hard to turn the screw or nut, then maybe you should loosen things so you don't risk stripping the threads, but if not then you're not going to hurt anything. ----- Looks like Mica and I were writing at the same time, and I could have been working or something... I'll just reinforce her comment about checking setup in normal playing position. If you measure stuff while it's laying on a table, even gravity pulling down on an unsupported neck is enough to throw off your measurements! This stuff is neither voodoo, nor rocket science - it just takes a little practice with careful attention. (Message edited by bob on August 02, 2004) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1443 Registered: 9-2002 |
I learned one thing over the years: do it slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-owly. 1/4 at the time. Put the bass away and restart plying some time, than adjust one 1/4 more ...and wait again ...wait ....wait ... Hey buddies, the art of waiting is what it's all about in Alembic ...remember when you order the thing ...Aaaa! Paul the bad one | ||
| fungke
Junior Username: fungke Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi everyone, Wow... look what happens when I go away for couple days. Thanks to everyone who has given advice. I really do appreciate it. Well I gave it another try last night and got the set-up almost there. I need to sort out the pick-ups. When I move the balance fully to the P (it's a P/J configuration) it sounds pretty awful. The pick-ups are set very low so I was going to bring them up to see if that cleared up matters. I'll have another play tonight but I'm now starting to get the hang of it. Are there any golden rule for pick-up set-up? Cheers, Andy. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1447 Registered: 9-2002 |
There are some rules I learend from the time my PJ Alembic PU's were build into a Fender Light of a friend of mine. The P's are louder than the J's. So in theory the P's must be set LOWER than the J's: the closer you get the PU's the louder they sound. Although ...it influences sound too. The lower you set the PU's the "lower" they sound, I Mean, with a tendency to produce more low end. A high placed PU will pick up more high sounds (the fingertouch on the strings, stringnoise in general). I don't know if on the PJ-set-up is a "blend/balance" between P and J. I think (HEY I AM NOT SURE OF THIS) that in that case there must be those tiny blue crews into the cavity were you can pre-set the mastervolume of each PU. So in that case the PU "height" you choose can be isloted only for tone purposes. Paul the bad one ***sigh*** I hope this is clear ...I am not good in explaining this technical stuff. PS: the PJ set-up I own has volume, blend, filter and Q-switch. You will soon hear more of it in my "Frankenstein project" ...come and see by the end of september!!! | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2002 |
Andy: NEVER deTune your bass to adjust your action (or for any other reason I can think of). You must remember that strings are pulled to a certain lbs/ft tension to achieve a given pitch. The total of all the strings' tension induces the relief ('bow') in the neck/fingerboard. So, if you get the action just where you want it in a detuned state, when you inevitably must return to standard tuning (a gig, for instance), you will raise the tension on the neck as you tune up, and your action will change as the neck bends a little more aginst this higher tension. If this sounds like splitting hairs, the real secret of all of this is that the location of the frets, the fret heights, ALL the dimensions involved in building a neck that correctly, are laid out in thousandths of an inch. Bob was pointing in this direction in telling you that 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn is a BIG change. I do my original setups of a new bass with feeler guages, because my brain/eyes aren't good enough to see the difference in .020" and .025". Mica in a previous post mentioned that the P Activator is MUCH louder than the J Activator, and they offer a circuit mod that can cedrease the difference in output. Might want to check into it. And of course the string is vibrating in a much narrower amplitude over the J back at the bridge, which doesn't help, but that's just the way it is. J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 262 Registered: 9-2002 |
Andy: I forgot one other thing: Always do your adjustments with the bass IN PLAYING POSTION. Never lay it flat on its back on a table to do this, as the weight will move the neck (see the ramble above about thousandths of an inch . . .). I usually do it with the bass in my lap, seated. J o e y | ||
| fungke
Junior Username: fungke Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2004 |
Cheers Joey. I appreciate your advice. It's starting to all make a lot of sense now. Typically when the bass arrived it was set-up quite well. The P activator, all be it loud, sounded real nice. Now it just sounds like big fuzzy sound with no definition. A lot of this will have something to do with the lighter strings I guess. Again, I will have another go when I get some free time. Best Regards, Andy. | ||
| effclef
Advanced Member Username: effclef Post Number: 219 Registered: 1-2004 |
Fungke: fuzzy sound? Hmm, I wonder, is your 9V battery fresh? If not, replace it. EffClef |
