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jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 148
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 1:50 am:   Edit Post

The first time I operate the Q-switch on my bass after plugging the jack lead in it makes an electric click sound which comes through the speaker like a discharging capacitance.

Then If i don't use the switch for a long period then switch it again, it makes the same click.

If i am playing pieces where i need to make regular changes to the position of the switches then this doesn't happen.

Is there somehow a charge building up in a capacitor somewhere that is causing this?
Any adjustments I can make to stop this as the longer the delay between using the switches means the eventual click will become louder.

Up till now I have got used to switching on and off to discharge any charges building up. It's become more noticeable lately as I've been playing music that needs far more tonal variation than usual.


Vince
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 244
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 6:30 am:   Edit Post

Vince, I can fully relate to this. The Dragon's Wing does this too - it is based on an MK Deluxe. However, because I use a compressor with an expander on it, I only notice it if I move a Q switch in mid song, or the compressor is turned off.

Do you have a problem with the volume of the instrument increasing if you rotate the pan control either way from the centre postition?

Rog
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 1905
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post

If you've got clicking on Q switches Vince, check the switch to see if there is a cap soldered to it. This was added sometime in the last couple of years, it's not the sort of thing we are obsessive about recording. Since we made them for over twenty years without, once in a while a new one slips through without the added cap.

I'll dig up a picture and post it on this thread in a little while so you can compare and then see where to add the part.

What Roger is referring to with the pan control is typical of all Signature electronics. This is an open engineering item on Ron's schedule and when the revision instructions are available, they will be readily shared.
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 1907
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post

Of course, everywhere I refer to "cap" above should be "1Meg resistor" Here's how you hook it up:

1 Meg
senmen
Advanced Member
Username: senmen

Post Number: 355
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post

Vince,
I had the same problem with my Spyder4.
The problem is caused, as Mica told you, by the
missing capacitors on the q-switches.
So check like Mica told you and ask for a replacement.

Many greetings
Oliver (Spyderman)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 245
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post

I've just removed the back plate from the DW - that has a capacitor as shown here on both Q switches. I should stress that the click I get is not a massive thud, but I can hear the fact that the switch has been switched through my amplifier, even at a fairly low volume and it is enough to force the level LEDs on my mixer to light up (all this applies only if I have my compressor turned off or I switch the switch in a quiet passage of music).

Rog
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 1909
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post

It's actually the resistor you need to confirm that you have - it's the stripey part across the terminals of the switch.

Roger, if you could reply to your open request email on the pan pot and add this additional information about the the click, that may help us resolve your pan pot issue knowing all the details. Thanks.
senmen
Advanced Member
Username: senmen

Post Number: 357
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post

Rog,
exactly the same with my Spyder4.
I had changed the parts and have now the capacitors on the Qs but you still can notice
a slight clicking sound when switching.
It is not as strong as before without the capacitors, but still noticeable....

Oliver (Spyderman)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 246
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post

The resistors I have are the same as the one shown in the picture above (blue background, brown/yellow/blue (black?) rings) and soldered as shown above.

I have just been trying the DW through headphones using my mixer, to see if I can replicate the problem to demand. The neck pick-up is the main culprit by the sounds of it and clicks on virtually every switching use, but the bridge one will only do it occasionally.

Rog
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 247
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post

P.S.

Can I add that the reason that I haven't really noticed the clicking so much when my compressor is turned off is probably due to the fact that I don't use the neck pick-up Q switch that much.

Rog
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 149
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 3:39 am:   Edit Post

Thanks for the info Mica, I will have a look at the weekend when the gigs are out of the way :-).

Rogertvr, yes I do have the volume increase as you move away from the centre indent on the pan control. But like most things you learn to automatically adjust the volume just after you move the pan so that the level increase is minimised. However it would be nice if it didn't do that.

Another thing that comes to mind. Ive just had yet another string break on me, fortunately during my practice at home and not on a gig.

This is about the 4th set of strings in about a year or so that have broken just at the point where the string goes over the bridge and is either the D or G string. Well previously it's always been the D' string but yesterday the G-string went.... ( no smutty comments about breaking G-strings please ;-)... )

Could it be something to do with the saddles?
I do play heavy sometimes but not all.
Jazzyvee
son_of_magni
Member
Username: son_of_magni

Post Number: 96
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 4:58 am:   Edit Post

My custom also clicks the first time I use the switches after starting to play, and I think the 1 meg resistors are installed. Tonight I'll try to measure them to make sure they're good. In fact maybe I'll swap them out with a 500k to see how much that helps.
dela217
Senior Member
Username: dela217

Post Number: 444
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 5:47 am:   Edit Post

I am going to put this resistor on my custom too. This is one of the reasons that I stopped using it. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
davehouck
Senior Member
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 799
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 7:22 am:   Edit Post

I used to break a lot of strings too, mainly the A string, at the bridge. I tried lightly sanding the saddles. Eventually, the problem went away. I don't know whether it was the sanding of the saddles, or gradual change in playing style, or even a change in string type. I just can't remember. I'm thinking the problem went away before I changed string type; and I'm inclined to believe that sanding the saddles did fix the problem.
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 152
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 1:56 am:   Edit Post

Mica, I opened the back on my bass yesterday to change the battery and had a look at the switches and those 1meg resistors are not there so I'll have a look for some in the electronic shop an solder them into place.

Cheers
Jazzyvee
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 1921
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 9:58 am:   Edit Post

I suspected your bass was old enough that they wouldn't be included. It's only been a couple of years that we've been adding them. Let me know how it works wonce you get them installed.
jlpicard
Member
Username: jlpicard

Post Number: 84
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 9:16 pm:   Edit Post

Does this also apply to Q switches on basses with Europa type electronics?
echo008
Member
Username: echo008

Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 8:13 am:   Edit Post

Hi All,
I am currently having this same problem with my neck Q and I just wanted to know
Should I get 1/2 Watt or 1/4 Watt 1 Meg resistors?
Does it matter?
thanks
- Tom
xlrogue6
Member
Username: xlrogue6

Post Number: 80
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 8:47 am:   Edit Post

Either one will work fine.
echo008
Member
Username: echo008

Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 8:53 am:   Edit Post

thanks ...
- Tom
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 1969
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post

For the Europa, here's the placement for the 1Meg resistor:

1 Meg Europa
son_of_magni
Intermediate Member
Username: son_of_magni

Post Number: 120
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 6:39 am:   Edit Post

I finally took the backplate off my Custom and sure enough, no resistors. I installed two 1 meggers and sure enough, no more pops.
Thanks Mica!
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 157
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 6:58 am:   Edit Post

Well I took my soldering iron to the Alembic this morning and installed the 1 meg resistors as you said Mica and sure enough no more clicking from the switches.

Thanks for that.

Jazzyvee.
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 173
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 4:29 pm:   Edit Post

Hi Mica, I've just started playing the bass again after a run of guitar playing gigs.
I notice that the modification for fixing the clicking sound has stopped the clicking but also it has stopped the function of the Q-switches.....

When I operate the Q switches there is no change in the sound at all?

Any advice?

Jazzyvee...
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 2179
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post

The difference in sound is not evident by simply flicking the switch, it affects the attack portion of the note only. Compare a passage you are good at repeating with the switch on and off and listen to the attack of the note.

There won't really be any difference from just flicking the switch across a sustained note.

Perphaps you can post a picture of the modification you made? Thanks.
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 175
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post

Ok, I will try that and see if I can hear any difference. If not I hope santa gets me a digital camera for christmas so I can send you the picture to check my soldering :-)

Jazzyvee
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 581
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 2:30 pm:   Edit Post

You hear it better by spinning the filter knob across a sustained note than by flicking the Q switch.
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 176
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 3:39 am:   Edit Post

There is no difference in the attack of the notes when using the switch. There is a difference in the tones available when sustaining a note and spinning the knob.

I'm gonna remove the resistors and check the sound again.
son_of_magni
Intermediate Member
Username: son_of_magni

Post Number: 149
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 8:03 am:   Edit Post

It sounds like you may have installed the wrong value resistors. If they were 1 ohm for instance, instead of 1 meg, it would be as if the switch was always in the on position.
- SoM
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 180
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:31 am:   Edit Post

Well that did cross my mind although I did go to a respectable electronics store and ask them for the resistor rather than try to remember the colour coding system.

But I will check it asap as I have a gig next Thursday with it.

Jazzyvee
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 181
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:32 am:   Edit Post

Well that did cross my mind although I did go to a respectable electronics store and ask them for the resistor rather than try to remember the colour coding system.

Quick question.... is the resistor colour coding the same in the UK as in the USA?

But I will check it asap as I have a gig next Thursday with it.

Jazzyvee
son_of_magni
Intermediate Member
Username: son_of_magni

Post Number: 150
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 7:59 am:   Edit Post

bad boys rape our young girls but violet gave willingly
black brown red orange yellow green blue violet gray white
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Of course the best way is to use an ohm meter...
- SoM
jazzyvee
Intermediate Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 183
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 7:15 am:   Edit Post

Well I took the resistor out yesterday evening before rehearsal and the sound is back to normal but with the clicking. So it must be something to do with the resistor.

Once the main shops are open after Christmas I'll go to another electronic spares place and get another two 1-Meg resistors and put them in.

I don't have an Ohm meter so I'll get the shop them to prior to purchase and get them to check the ones i've just taken out.

Cheers

Jazzyvee
terryc
Junior
Username: terryc

Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 7:57 am:   Edit Post

This owner of 1993 MK standard is going to take the rear cover off and look tonight although I cannot recall the audible click when using the switches.
1Meg resistor..ooh massive cost of about 5p(UK currency)approx 2 cents in US money and about a pin prick of resin core solder.
Will have to listen to volume change on the panpot though..can it be measured with a meter on the output jack and if so what are the readings in milliVolts(if any??)

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