| Author | Message | ||
| bassplaynmatt
Junior Username: bassplaynmatt Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2003 |
I just got back from a gig where the sound man basically said I was crazy to be gigging with my Alembic. He ran a line about "theres no point in playing an instrument that costs that much" basically his argument was that at most gigs, I could be playing a 500 dollar bass and the end result "sound wise" would be virtually the same (which doesn't say much for his ability as a sound man.) Obviously, this was a rock gig so he was coming from the perspective that all gigs are smokey, dirty, and loud. I tend to play a large variety of gigs (as most freelance players do) and I think the respect for high quality instruments seems to be more of a standard among other players. And to be quite honest, my bass would look better longer if I didn't put my grimy hands on it every day and sweat all over it at gigs. Basically my question to you guys is this: Do most Alembic owners gig hard and heavy with there Alembics or do they collect them. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers but IMHO a bass that sounds a plays like my Alembic should be the first piece of gear out the door no mater how big or small the gig. I know a lot of classical players and suggesting to a professional clarinetist that playing a plastic horn works just as well will get you laughed at! Anyhow, I just wanted to see what kind of opinions are lurking in this crazy crowd and basically vent in a place where my beloved bass isn't insulted for being what it is, a truly professional level instrument and a work of art. Matt | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 305 Registered: 9-2002 |
When I first started playing in the 70s, I waxed and primped and pampered my basses like they were show horses. I even bought a Peavey T40 (built as if it came from solid oak!) to play the rowdy Texas beer joints so as not to 'mess up' my NICE basses. (Yes, I HAVE played on stages behind chicken wire!). This just got tiring after a while, once it dawned on me that barflies usually pick fights with the guitar player or the front man, and virtually ignored me. I've since learned to approach them the way you'd treat fine tools: I take care of them, but I USE them. I've never been bad about really scratching up an instrument, and the occasional very small dink or dent isn't gonna keep me up nights. And admittedly as I slide off into my 50s I don't do many 'swing from the chandelier' gigs anymore. Haven't shot the bottles off the bar in quite a while . . . Why would you buy a Ducati but ride your Suzuki to work? Get used to pricks like the soundman. To most other musicians, bass is a misunderstood, black art. A band will kill to get a hot guitar player or a terrific front man, then get the first drummer and bassist that can walk and chew gum and drive the van. They NEVER understand that they've got it backwards: ALL great bands roll atop a terrific rhythm section. John and Keith. Bill and Charlie. Al Jackson and Duck Dunn. And on and on. That soundman irks me, but when asked why I never get stage fright, I point out into the house and say, "Well, if they were any good, they'd be up here instead of me." I think that covers him. J o e y | ||
| kungfusheriff
Intermediate Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2003 |
You paid for the instrument, so as long as it sounds good, play it. I paid less than $500 for my PRS, which I've never heard a complaint about from any engineer or musician; haven't run sound with my Series 2 yet. As far as the general public is concerned, bass is bass, but the discerning listener is always a discerning listener. Your sound man is not. Step away from the moron because he's blowing smoke. After all, you're the bass player, and that other guy is the sound man. As long as your bass is healthy he doesn't have a damned thing to worry about. The Wickersham family has spent 30 years worrying about tone, and how long has he been running sound? | ||
| the_mule
Advanced Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 277 Registered: 1-2004 |
For me it's that 'new car first scratch' feeling. My Orion (my first Alembic, bought it brand new) is the one one I'm most careful with while my EVH Sig and Elan had some minor scratches and dents already when I purchased them secondhand. I wouldn't doubt about gigging with those two, but the Orion... (hmmm) Although I'm not a gigging musician (yet) I consider myself a player, and not a collector anymore. I was until I realised it isn't what I really want. My rig now consists of 3 Alembic basses and two amps, and if I want something new, one of them has to make place. Nostalgia is all that remains of my collecting days. IMHO there's nothing wrong about being collector, but I personally couldn't justify the money and space it took anymore. Wilfred | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2004 |
I've gigged with all but one of my 10 Alembics. I've used them since I bought my first in 83. I play hard and beat the daylights out of them. Mica and company did a refinish in black for my first Spoiler that I was beating on ala Mark Mendoza and forgot to take off my watch! Upper horn had dozens of little dings! I now only wear watches on my left hand. I do sound for "club" bands every week in addition to gigging with my own band Doomtree. The guy you spoke to is FOS about their not being a difference. My Alembic sounds killer when I bring them to a gig and let another guy use them while I mix. Most guys are not used to the Alembic sound and eq you like a P bass in the house system. Most won't take the DI out of the F1X. Most hate being there and have to deal with extreme butthead rock star types who in turn infect the soundman with the same attitude virus. I once tried out for a band and their old player had a POS bass and played badly. They were used to that sound . To recreate that sound on a recording, I had to hold a pick sideways and slash at the strings! Passed on that one. I have The collecting bug and I'm asking Mica for another custom Excel to keep Kay company. That will give me 4 Alembic basses for the road when I start touring in earnest in 05. I'm an Alembaholic. I admit my addiction and deal with it one day at a time. No wife and no kids make Danno get more basses (and guitars). Danno | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1676 Registered: 9-2002 |
Bonnie has been with me from 1996. In the beginning there was no band I could play with and the paople from the old-style big-band didn't like the Amembic sound at all (afterwards I discovered they meant: we don't like YOUR sound on the Alembic, on a Series II you can get the sound you want). Since 4 years now playing with Blue Stuff and last 2 years with Drive Bonnie has been on every stage I play. I play the size of bars and stages that 90% of the time I am gratting behind our guitarplayers ears with Bonnies peghead, can sit on the bassdrum or get some beating from our ladysinger when my fingers are plucking the wrong "string". Anyway ....I can imagine that IN EUROPE Bonnie is a 12000$ bass. I know I am taking a risk but I never heard a complain. 1 soundengineer insisted in using a DI box with my old SWR SM 400 (although the line out is very good on that amp). In another situation there was a complain about a constant hum from my bass. In the end it turned out that I stood too close to the light-mixing console and some parblazers and as you know: that IS something Series electronics HATES. Because we play as you understand in small venues we set up our sound as in rehaersal situation with FULL OWN CONTROL of what we want. Last night I had ้ bass-players co,ing up to me and just asking: "how do you do that how do you do that" ... nah ...not the playing ...just how do I get that sound. As you know Series (and ALL Alembics I guess)combined with F1-X, SF-2 and poweramp is a POWERFULL combination ...in every meaning of that word. I cannot afford to collect Alembics so it will just be that only one. I surely will buy more basses in the future when live is more shining on me but even THAN it will not be a collection, just for the sound or the beauty of that peticular instrument. Beware ...I can complete UNDERSTAND that someone collect Alembics -I know a guy who collects Ferrari's- but I conider them as to play on! Some idea's. Paul the bad one | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 261 Registered: 6-2002 |
My father played a 1940s Gibson Large hollowbody as a bar player and sideman for 40 years. What I learned from him is that ultimately, the instrument is a TOOL to be used. I try to avoid dangerous situations (I never had to play behind chicken wire), but my own comfort level on stage is based on having MY instruments up there with me. Mike | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2003 |
I own ten basses of different makes, to include my Spyder and my Europa. I like all of them for different reasons, and I didn't buy them to keep them in a closet. I play them. Am I more careful with my Alembics? Absolutely. Who wouldn't be given the cost? Does this stop me from gigging with them? Nope. I bought them to play them, like I said. Same goes for my other basses (two Fender Jazz Basses, a Rick 4001, a Gibson Thunderbird, a Gibson Ripper, a Musicman Stingray, a Pedulla MVP, and an Ovation Acoustic Electric). If they were dinged or banged up, sure, I'd be upset. But I'd get over it and keep using them. That's what the Wickershams and the good folks at Alembic made these instruments for. They're both a finely crafted tool and work of art - they should be treated and played as such. I don't consider myself a collector, even given what I own. They're all basses I've always wanted, but couldn't afford until now. Some I got fairly cheaply (the Ripper and Ovation), others not (the Alembics, the MVP), and the rest somewhere in the middle (Thunderbird, Jazz basses, Musicman, Rick). All of them were meant to be played, and that's what I do with them. The days of the bass guitar being nothing more than a backing instrument are long gone. It started with guys like Chris Squire, John Paul Jones, Stanley Clarke, Jaco, etc., and now we have guys like Stu Hamm, Les Claypool, and Flea carrying the torch. Those who don't understand that are, IMHO, missing the boat. Back when I first started playing in the mid 70's, slapping and popping wasn't something most guys did. Now it's a required technique for many players. Same goes for sound. The "P-Bass and SVT" sound isn't the only one out there anymore. The soundman you refer to needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Anyway, my two cents. Regards, Alan | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 917 Registered: 5-2002 |
Matt; I can certainly understand why there are those who are collectors of Alembics, just as I can understand why people collect other works of art. For me personally, my Alembics are for playing. I want the quality of my sound to be as good as I can get it; just as I want the other players I play with to care about their sound as well. I tend to think that having a quality sound heightens the overall experience of the listeners as well as the players. But that's just me. Everyone has different situations, different bands, different styles, etc. I can certainly understand why someone would not want to take a custom one-of-a-kind instrument on the type of tour where wear and tear are unavoidable; and I can understand why someone would not want to take their beloved instrument into a room full of drunks. As for the soundman; yes, there are going to be times where your wonderful tone will not make it past the board. Unfortunately, that happens to even the best players. I've heard Victor Wooten's sound mangled when he was fronting his own band. I guess we can feel compassion for the soundman as he is being a soundman at his level of ability just we are being players at our own level of ability. So perhaps treating the soundman with respect and patience is the best course of action. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 918 Registered: 5-2002 |
Alan; as to your comment about the soundman needing to wake up. I used to frequent this rather famous blues club to see the many touring bands that came through. Of all the bands I saw there, I only saw one Alembic. I think it could be somewhat difficult to smell the coffee when night after night the soundman is primarily only getting to hear P-basses. | ||
| smokin_dave
Intermediate Member Username: smokin_dave Post Number: 199 Registered: 10-2002 |
"ALL great bands roll atop a terrific rhythm section." Hear,hear.You got it right Joey.I've told people for years that you have to have a great drummer to make a great band.It will make or break your band.Plus the bass player too.You can take so-so players and make them sound like a million bucks with a great rhythm section. As far as collecting/playing is concerned,I've never had a bunch of basses laying around since I've always wanted them to be played.My two Alembics are the most basses I've owned at one time.I'll never part with them.I've always wanted to see intruments played and not stored.Thats why I don't have all of the basses I have purchased over the span of my life which would have been pretty numerous by now. | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dave (houck), Yeah, I can see your point. If that's all they hear, then anything new that is introduced might throw them for a loop. But it also goes along with what I said - P Bass and SVT isn't the only thing out there, but too many folks (IMHO) have come to believe that's what a bass should sound like. And it's unfortunate. Don't get me wrong - there are times that I like that P-Bass type sound. But it isn't the only one. That's why I love my Alembics - I can make them sound like just about anything, P-Bass included. Where I live, there is a very large blues scene. They (meaning guitar players, mostly) want the P Bass, stay in the background kind of sound and style. This is one of the reasons I'm not really gigging with anyone right now. Nothing against that way of thinking, but it's not what I like to do. That and the fact that I-IV-V progressions, over and over, 4 sets a night, and endless guitar solos bore the snot out of me. But different strokes and all that. Doesn't make it bad, just makes it not for me. Blues, to most folks I guess, calls for that P-Bass style sound (think Duck Dunn, James Jamerson, etc.), so it doesn't surprise me in that idiom that soundmen like that - it's safe, traditional. Anything that isn't probably doesn't appeal to most folks. That being said, I'd still play my Alembics in that situation since they're so versatile, soundman be damned! Best Regards, Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2004 |
Matt: I have been playing guitar for 40 years, electric for 36 years, and in bands for 30+. I long ago figured out that music, for me, was a wonderful hobby from which I derive immense pleasure and cheap therapy. As an occupation, (I played both solo acoustic and in bands), I learned that I hated the business side and didn't want to exist on Mickey D's and pizza. So off to law school I went at the age of 28. Over the years I collected a few guitars, not as art objects or investments, but rather because here and there I'd run into an axe that was fun to play and the $ worked out. Currently I rehearse with my band every week and we play out when we can, usually every couple of months. (I'd like to do that a little more, but everyone has families and jobs and not much time to hunt up places to play). Given that backgound, here is my "2 sense": From an economic standpoint, strictly business, your soundman was right. But is that why you play? I play because it makes me feel good to create simultaneously with four other people who are great friends and accomplished musicians. The better my instrument feels to play, and the better it sounds to me, translates into my playing better and, thus, the band playing better. I have lusted for an Alembic since around '75 when I played in a band, "Cripple Finger", with a rich kid whose parents had suppplied him with one of the first series 1 guitars. Last July my lust was finally satisfied (at least temporarily) when I found an '83 Electrum in excellent shape. It is now my number one guitar. Of course I gig with it (& of course a back up which changes according to whim). If you are a struggling erstwhile pro on the road from dive to dive, I can understand that you might want to "save" the Alembic for future, bigger gigs. (Though I probably wouldn't). But if you are like me, and I suspect like a lot of people in this club, and you have a real job (who else besides Clapton, Santana, Springsteen, Dylan and Simon really makes enough money playing music to afford an Alembic? - alright, admittedly a slight exageration, but you get my point), our Alembics are pleasure giving diversion machines. Play it! Enjoy it! Soundman be damned! And start saving for another - (I know I am). Bill the guitar one. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1679 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Dave, Got drums? People will move! Got a voice (read "melody")? People will sing! Got a bass? People will dance!!!!! what I say alwyas PTBO | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 485 Registered: 12-2002 |
Alembics are the DIAMONDS* of guitars, so when you go out to play, wear your shit man!,,, the only thing one should be collecting is beer cans! | ||
| lbpesq
Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 58 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hey, ever notice how many of these threads, taking many convoluted paths, wind up at "beer"? Bill, the guitar one. | ||
| malthumb
Advanced Member Username: malthumb Post Number: 279 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have 5 basses. Two Alembics and three other very nice small luthier customs. I have gigged with all but my newest custom. And I will gig with that when the situation calls for it. Most gigs I take my Series II 5 string and another bass (usually my fretless). The fact that I have 2 Alembics and 3 other small luthier basses is evidence of a "collector" gene in my DNA, but I play everything that I collect. It may be true that in many of the venues I play, the crowd would not be able to freely discern whether I was playing an Alembic or a P-Bass, as long as they like the sound. But if I switched mid-gig from my Series II to a P-Bass, I think most people WOULD notice a difference. Most people think Wendy's hamburgers are pretty good, but if they took a bite of a Wendy's, then a bite of a Fuddrucker's, they'd recognize a significant shift in quality levels. Most people only deal with the burger that's on their plate at the time. Peace, James | ||
| jlpicard
Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have 12 gigging basses including three Alembics and one or two others in various modes of modification/construction,( I like to build my own when get a little spare time now and then), but I find that unless I'm doing a gig that someone has requested something very specific, I find that I cannot stop myself from using my Alembics ALL THE TIME! My basses all sound great sitting around the living room,but once you get used to the way the Alembics sound and respond live, you begin to realize just how superior these basses really are and that they are worth every penny that you've invested in them. For me, once I've been spoiled, there's no going back! The sound in my head is now in my hands.... What could be better? Mike | ||
| alemboid
Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2003 |
Funny, If the guitar player showed up with a '59 goldtop Les Paul (worth about $60,000), the sound man would say, "cool". If the drummer showed up with Ringo Starr's original Ludwig drumset, the sound man would say, "cool". If the keyboard player came in with... you get the idea. Why is it that bass players are told what's cool to play, let alone prejudged by what we pull out of the case? Play your Alembic, it DOES make a difference, and louts like that sound man are losers that are doing sound because they can't play bass. Alemboid | ||
| bassplaynmatt
Junior Username: bassplaynmatt Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bill, It is possible to make a living playing you just have to deal with the ebb and flow of work. There are times when one or two gigs will bring in enough to pay all the bills and put strings on both my basses (with two 6 strings that's saying something) and then there are times when I make enough to eat until the next good gigs. Of course things like steady weekly gigs and a few students help keep the balance. In fact if you read well and are willing to play many styles of music you can work and save enogh to put an Alembic into your bag of tricks. Granted my first was an Epic and my current Elan/Europe is second hand. But considering my Alembic and my Roscoe cost as much as a decent used car I'm quite proud that playing bass paid for those basses. You do have to make sacrifices to play music and have killer gear. Some players sacrifice and get a real job, others like myself sacrifce and take the gigs your given even if the sound man is an asshole  I am only 25 so no kids yet to support. However, my wife is a classical clarinetist so helping pay for her Masters degree (not to mention a $6000 Bass Clarinet) counts for something. In the end we all do what we can to be happy so I guess I'm just saying that if anybody else out there is trying to do this crazy music thing for a living I solute you! Later, Matt | ||
| bob
Advanced Member Username: bob Post Number: 336 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bass clarinet - cool. The world needs more of them, thanks for helping her out. Your devotion to music is truly admirable, wish you the best. The fact that you found someone who shares your interest is auspicious. | ||
| lbpesq
Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 59 Registered: 7-2004 |
Matt: I wish you luck and truly hope you find your dream, whatever it may be. You are obviously serious and determined, (or very lucky), to have acquired the funds necessary to obtain your equipment at your age. My experience is that most rock musicians are stretched to get $500 together for a decent mid-level Fender. It has always amazed me how relatively cheap guitar players can be. For example, as a clarinet and sax player from long ago (grade school and Jr. High - I gave it up when I discovered electric guitar and girls. My misfortune, I have since come to realize that sax is the sexist instrument there is, but I digress), I suspect that the $6000 you spent was not even a lot for a good Bass Clarinet, yet most guitar players would laugh hysterically at the thought of spending that much on a guitar. We here, of course, know that people sometimes spend a lot more for the best. I am amazed at how many "famous" guitarists continue to play their Strat/Tele/Paul/SG when they can afford any guitar there is. The "daring" ones might play PRS or Parker. I know there is a significant difference between Alembic and these other instruments. Heck, I've been playing a '61 Strat for almost 30 years. I have several other "classic" guitars. They're all great instruments, but the first time I brought my Alembic into rehearsal, even the drummer commented on the great tone. I guess what I'm saying is that whoever you are, professional, weedend warrior, or bedroom rockstar, if you are fortunate enough to have an instrument as fine as an Alembic, and you don't use it, you should have your head examined. Bill, the tired guitar one | ||
| 4u2nv
Junior Username: 4u2nv Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2003 |
Do you take your wife or girlfriend to a really bad place ???, i think the same way of my basses, i love to play them, but sometimes you have to pass in certain gigs where your axe is in danger. Also about soundmans, ...damn!!!!, where we can find one ???, of 80% of the gigs i played, all the "soundmens" are friends of the dj's , or just people who doens't know how to handle a mixer, and never had read a book about mixing; so also that's a turn off, beacuse you take your beloved bass to the gig and this guy doesn't do justice to your sound; so i figure it out in this cases: "The more we drink, the better we sound" lol. More beer!!! | ||
| lbpesq
Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2004 |
Back to beer, again!!!! Bill, the guitar one. | ||
| kayo
Member Username: kayo Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2002 |
Matt I have struggled with the issue you have raised - I do not have accumulated wealth, and can't afford an arsenal of Alembics so that I can have the luxury of having a set of "elite" gig axes, as well as a set of "workingman" axes on an Alembic scale.... I only have one - and it took me so long to save for (notwithstanding the negotiating with my wife that a $4K+ expenditure on a bass was not a stupid thing to do) - that I don't have a choice but to use my one and only bass for all gigs. Over time my outlook has changed - initially I would never have used my Rogue for most gigs - now I that I have had it for 5 almost 5 years, I would never settle for less. I suppose that if I had a larger budget, and a sufficient number of instruments - there may be those that I use more sparingly (along the lines that if I had a sedan, a sports car and a station wagon, the sports car would be used the least)... Having been spoiled by the robust and ouststanding craftsmanship of Alembic I could not really go back to playing $1,000 instruments... they don't have the action, the quality, the beauty nor the sound to maintain my now ultra high standard for playability. If you can live with the reality of perhaps getting a few more nicks on it than you would get if it never left home..... then I would suggest that as long as you are happy playing it and are not too paranoid leaving the house with it - that you indulge yourself liberally with playing your Alembic to your heart's content. | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Alembic goes to every gig. Period. Even if I don't play it because I'm playing my cheap Dean 12-string or Lakland or whatever. If it's safe enough for me, then it's safe enough for the Alembic. I've got a lovely wife, 2 kids, 4 cats, 1 dog, 2 goats, 1 pony and a mortgage, and I want to live to see them all another day, so I don't spend time in places where I might get stabbed or shot anymore. I took the Alembic to those scary gigs as well. I think folks would be more inclined to steal a Fender bass, though, because they know what it is. And as for beer, I try to only play bars that serve something dark and heavy on tap (like Black Toad or Champagne Velvet Bock), because they tend to have the happiest clientele... Just out of curiosity, how many of you guys have seen someone get stabbed, shot or murdered at a gig? It gives you a whole new perspective on booking gigs... John | ||
| bassplaynmatt
Junior Username: bassplaynmatt Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wow...... I'm glad to say that I've never seen anyone killed on a gig. Although, I have wanted to kill a few people I've played with before (mostly singers for starting songs in different keys and neglecting to inform the rhythm section) Matt | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2003 |
Matt, We used to have a bar in Terre Haute called "The Spinning Wheel," but which was lovingly referred to as "The Stabbing Wheel." When the local economy goes steadily down the tubes for 50-plus years, people tend to become violent, especially when plied with cheap alcohol. I haven't played many bars in Indy, but used to play in Bloomington a bit back in the day.. John | ||
| bassplaynmatt
Junior Username: bassplaynmatt Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2003 |
Well, as long as the Bluebird has been around here in Bloomington I'm sure someone's been stabbed and/or shot. As far as Indy is concerned I play more jazz clubs then rock clubs up there so most of my experiences have been mild to say the least. Aside from drunk yuppies at The Chatter Box things are usually pretty calm. Hey, you didn't happen to catch the most resent Indy Battle of the bands on the local Fox news channel? Me and my Alembic were playing with a local song writer named Jenn Cristy. She toured as part of John Mellencamp's band and now she's doing her stuff. Matt | ||
| stoney
Advanced Member Username: stoney Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2002 |
One stabbing in a bar in 1979...a counrty bar, in fact. The victim was a patron, not a band member. My 62 jazz bass and I were out the door in a flash. Didn't own an Alembic until the late 80's. I'm a player. |
