| Author | Message | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2003 |
Given my own preference for Alembics: Whatever works... | ||
| pookeymp
Intermediate Member Username: pookeymp Post Number: 187 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Guys, I just experienced a bit of 'Reverse Discrimination.' I just recently finished doing a video shoot with one of the bands I work with @ EKO Productions (some of you East Coast guys might be familiar with the place). Now, I've done quite a few videos there with various bands, but this last time I noticed that I didn't get quite as many close-ups as usual. In past videos, I seemed to be featured often, and my bass was super-imposed over the vocalist in many instances. While I did get a few this last time, it didn't seem to be half as many as usual. So jokingly, I asked one of the cameramen: "What happened this time?" He said: "Well, while the bass you're using now (my Tobias) is quite nice, in the past when you was using that Alembic, I just couldn't take my lens off of it." When I thought about it, I realized the first question he asked he when I pulled out my Tobias was: "Where's the Alembic?" Man, I gotta get my dollars together and get my next Alembic quick. Mikey/ | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here in Philadelphia many bassists use Fenders. any high end bass tha comes out is suspect. many players in this town go for a very very basic tone. Most of the negativity I have encountered comes from bringing an extended range instrument to a gig. I think this stems mainly from bassists not fulfilling the the "bass function" job and simply overplaying on their extended range instruments instead of playing what the job calls for. | ||
| willie
Junior Username: willie Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hey godoze Nice to hear from another Alembic player from Philadelphia. Thats where I'm at. Do you play out around here? I'll come hear how that bass sounds. Saw your post about your rig and I must join the Pauls in saying wheres the pictures? Willie | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2004 |
Willie, Yes, My trio plays around quite a bit but most of my "high profile" gigs come from the belly dancer i play solo with. I think I have heard of your band. | ||
| willie
Junior Username: willie Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2003 |
You get to play solo with a belly dancer COOOOOOl Where & when that would be interesting, hearing an Alembic live & getting to see a belly dancer at the same time. I dont remember metioning the name of my band but I've played with several, ever hear of "Strange Kreek" Whats the name of your trio Willie | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2004 |
I looked at your profile and saw the band name... | ||
| dnburgess
Advanced Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 332 Registered: 1-2003 |
Godoze - I agree 100% on overplaying - nobody wants to hear slapping, tapping and harmonics on "Proud Mary". | ||
| willie
Junior Username: willie Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2003 |
dnburgess Did you ever hear Victor Wooten play Norwegian Wood or Amazing Grace? He does some things there that are definitely different than the original studio versions. Obviously you can overplay a song and turn it into #@%^, but sometimes its nice to hear someone take a song and play it a whole new way as long as they do it Justice. So godoze, when are you playing around Philly again Willie | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2004 |
I played in Doylestown Saturday night... A duo with an accordion player. Hemingway sounded very good with the accordion. I cannot wait to install the filter and Q. | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2004 |
Something else that comes to mind from personal experience is that most engineers have an easy time mixing the Fender tone in recordings while many have difficulty trying to incorporate a high fidelity bass. They are just not sure how to deal with a basses tone that is not "meat and potatoes." I have experienced this with my Smith basses on several occasions. | ||
| wideload
Member Username: wideload Post Number: 67 Registered: 6-2003 |
The last recording I did, the engineer was pleased to see an Alembic (he is old school San Francisco 70's stock).He ran me from a Countryman DI to a Summit tube pre and got a huge sound right out of the box. Much more satisfying than all that Guitar/Vocal interference you hear on recordings today! Yes, it IS all about me. Larry | ||
| alemboid
Intermediate Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2003 |
Just by experience... Many engineers like the "Fender bass" because they have been EQ'ing them for so long they kind of know what to do to get a sound, whereas with Alembics, there is such a robust tonal signal that they are easy to work with. As far as Ken Smith basses, I think they are beautiful and have a unique tone- which is rare when you think of how many other basses sound so much alike (not to include boutique basses, which tend to have unique audio signals, add to this the basic and unique tonal qualities of the P bass, J bass, Ricky basses and Stingrays). Funny thing is I have heard others comment about having to work to get a "sound" in the mix on Ken Smith basses. Why? I don't know. I found a freaky K. Smith that I am totally in love with. It's a BSR7EG- yes 7 string! I don't need 7 strings, but the bass is so beautiful, that I can't get it out of my mind! Don't worry, my intention, should I find the dollars, is to use that bass a platform for solo performance, perhaps accompanied by hand percussion. Just imagine the reaction you'd get for pulling out a 7 string!!!! Talk about discrimination! Tonally, they seem to have a strong midrange presence. maybe that is what troubles engineers, who knows. Again, who's to say what is "right" when they see what we are pulling out of our cases? Alemboid | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2004 |
I guess the "right" ones are either the people that hired us or ouselves... | ||
| beelee
New Username: beelee Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have been playing bass for over 25 + years, my first bass was a copy of a Fender Jazz, and others were Ibanez Musician, Destroyer II, Washburn B-40 EQ, Kramer Ferrington II, Yamaha RBX 5, RBX 765a, Peavey TL-6, they all have been retired/sold as my tastes changed over the years, now I use Alembic, Conklin, Fodera, Pedulla, Tobias (pre Gibson), Hamer, Zeta, Guild Ashbory, Michael Kelly, still have a fretted and fretless Ibanez Musician basses (till my new Alembic comes!! ) then they will be retired and a Ibanez Studio 8 string , as well a a Fender P I got used someone put in EMG's and a Kahler whammybar. No one has ever complained about my bass sound, the only comment was from an studio engineer who thought the Washburn sounded like a Rick ! and when people see my Conklin 7 string, they ask what make it is ans LOOK at the size of the neck..How do you play that ? All my basses were a very personal choice, purchased for what I could afford, the way they look, sound and play, not for brand name, or who uses one, I like unique looking instruments ( I still have one of those Roland GR-77B bass synths ;o)........ bottom line is now days with how far bass building and electronics have come, 5 different people can pick up the same bass, play through the same amp and all sound completely different, it doesn't matter how many strings are on your bass or what brand it is, I bring up to 5 instruments to a gig and switch for different songs, fretted,fretless, but I play for what the song requires.....original or cover, Dream Theater to Jimi Hendrix, stage or studio. | ||
| jure_the_second
Junior Username: jure_the_second Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2002 |
Well, I got the opposite experience. Once I brought my Alembic on rehersal together with a '78 Jazz. Played a bit on Orion and then switched to Fender. After a couple of songs the guitarist said: "This Fender looks nice, but could you switch back to that Alembic, please?" Jure | ||
| alemboid
Intermediate Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 111 Registered: 5-2003 |
Cool! I'd hire that guitarist in a snap! :~) He was really "listening". No doubt, as we bassists play what the song calls for, we blend in well, and glue the whole band together. Note for note, a bass with consistant tone and presence(Alembic) is really appreciated by those who care. Unfortunately for some of us, what we are seen with seems to be more important than how we sound. I bet you those image conscious (sorry) jerks that grump when they see something other than a "Fender" like bass would go nuts if they were told that they should play something other than what they bring to the gig. What would their reaction be if after an audition, they found out they didn't get the gig because they had the "wrong" guitar, drum sticks, sax, etc.? Some of us are lucky in that you can play what you play, and that is cool enough! "I have a dream, that some day a man will be judged, not by the kind of bass he plays, but by the way he plays". -Borrowed and altered from a famous civil rights speaker. | ||
| stab
New Username: stab Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2003 |
About the Fender vs. non-Fender oriented crowd: I was working with a big-band a while ago, always playing my 70's Telecaster Bass. When I first brought my Alembic to a rehearsal, a trumpet player asked "New bass? What kind is it?" I replied "Alembic." "Olympic? Never heard of it. Cool, though." Another guy notices my bass, walks over and says the same thing: "New axe? What kind?" "Alembic." "Olympic? Never seen one. Nice." Band leader shows up. "New instrument? What is it?" "Alembic!" "Olympic? Looks cool." Chick singer arrives. "New bass? Nice! What kind is it?" "...Olympic." | ||
| richbass939
Junior Username: richbass939 Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 |
I just read the posts on this thread. Very interesting. The comments a while back about "Can you make it sound like a Fender?" reminded me of an article in Bass Player a few years ago. It was written by David Hungate, most recently (I guess) a top Nashville session player. The article was about "session-ese". It said what the artist/producer/guitarist/whoever said to the bassist (and a translation into English) and the bassist's response (and translation). One was Singer to bassist: Can you play something more like so-n-so would play? Translation: We really wanted so-n-so for this session. Bassist to singer: Can you sing more like George Jones? Translation: Kiss my ass. Rich | ||
| thebass
Intermediate Member Username: thebass Post Number: 172 Registered: 3-2003 |
I had a gig two months ago in a less than ideal acoustic environment. The soundman and me were tweaking the bass sound while I was playing my beloved MK. The soundman had quite some experience but he didn't know much of bass brands. After some minutes of tweaking the sound was ok but not breathtaking. I told the soundman "ok, but let me also try my MM Sterling". He knewed Musicman and said "oh yeah, I love Musicman for their clear sound. Let's go !". It was only 30secs of playing when he told me "Forget the Sterling, it's nowhere near your other I-dont-know-what bass". Last year another soundman I was gigging with asked me when I was doing soundcheck with my MK "Nice bass, but can you make it sounding like a PB ?". I said "Sure I could, but I don't want to go that low in quality". Translates to: see last post ;-) | ||
| richbass939
Junior Username: richbass939 Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 |
After my last post I really started thinking about the different bass makers. I am not exactly a Fender fan. I have never owned one. But I don't think anyone can deny Fender's place in music history. Before the Fender we had to play uprights or tubas. Can you imagine trying to match volume with a big band with an upright. I own one and it is hard to play loud for long. It is exhausting. Granted I don't practice it much but I can imagine how those gigging bassists felt when the Fender came along. The way I've heard the story, Fender was the only one around at that time, thus the name "Fender bass". Then move ahead to Motown, etc. Many of those songs were recorded with Fenders. It is reasonable that it has many devotees. Carol Kaye made quite a career during that time. An earlier post stated that engineers like the Fender because they know the instrument and can get the sound they want quickly. Time is money in studios. Just because it was the only one around in the really early days doesn't mean that we have to stick with it now. We have better. Why not take advantage of advancements that have come along? Why use a slide rule rather than a calculator just because "by God, that's all we had in the old days and it's still good enough for me." Better technology and people like Ron W. have given us the opportunity to play better instruments. However, that doesn't mean that Fenders are necessarily crap. I guess a lot of people like the sound. That's okay with me. I don't think they are the best but if someone likes it, okay. Again, I've never owned one. I have owned maybe a dozen basses. Most of them had a pretty good sound. I didn't try to use any one of them for all types of music. I am very pleased with my Epic. It has, by far, the best sound of any bass I've had. As far as I know Alembic makes the best. But, please, let's not think that Alembic is the only instrument maker out there and ours are the only opinions that should count. It really does not bother me that not very many people have heard of Alembic or even Olympic for that matter. After all, the serial numbers are only up to 14,000 or 15,000. If they don't think they like the sound because they don't recognize the logo, it's their loss. There are plenty of professional musicians, engineers, and producers who know what Alembic stands for. Alembic has nothing to prove. Respectfully, Rich | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 536 Registered: 3-2004 |
Rich- I played a maple-boarded '71 Jazz for a couple years. It had a fabulous tone that was hard for most boutique basses to match, but it didn't have the versatility. If all someone is looking for is a flatwound all-bottom sound, then there are a lot of basses that can provide that. One thing is for sure, every Alembic I have played has been much more responsive to playing nuances than most of the basses of yesteryear. It puts a lot of tonal control in the hands of the player, both via technique and via the settings of the filters and other controls. That means a good player can sound better and a mediocre or poor player can sound that much worse. I always wonder when I see one of these posts why it should be up to the "engineer" to decide what the bass should sound like? I don't do pro recording gigs and rarely play with a soundman, but I have done sound for some sizable acts. I have always tried to give them what they want, not force them to sound the way I want. Can some of you session-regulars splain this one for me? | ||
| palomorado
New Username: palomorado Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 |
in my main band i play my Alembic, Chapman Stick, and my passive/fretless Fender Jazz with flats. very different sounds between the two but it really gives me a full tonal pallate to choose from. i used to play a fretted jazz as well but when i brought the Alembic to practice the first time EVERYONE in the band (including the SINGER!!!) was amazed and said that the Alembic is the bass for the band. with the Stick, the fretless, and the Alembic i have many unique sounds and none of them can be replaced. | ||
| alemboid
Intermediate Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2003 |
Lazy narrow minded soundmen are the ones that whine when something other than a Fender is used in sessions. Overall, the reaction is good when I use my Sadowsky in the studio, but I can't remember ever plugging in my Alembics and not getting a "Wow! What kind of bass is that?" or "Cool, we got a sound" (moments after plugging in). The whole "Vintage is cool" market is still going wild. So, to be "in", playing a 70's or earlier Fender gives you cool points in some occasions, regardless of your ability, again, in some cases. A friend of mine plays a Sadowsky on a late night show here in New York. What's kind of funny is he has several Sadowskys, but only one really delivers the sound that the audio tech really likes, and for that matter, is noticeably better sounding than his others. Nothing against Sadowsky, but Alembics seem to be a bit more consistant, even though the woods can alter the tone. Like Susan says- a lot of bassists record with Alembics and play the stage with the "in" bass or their endorsement piece. There is more to life than Alembics, but in life, it's hard to beat an Alembic! Alemboid | ||
| willie
Junior Username: willie Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2003 |
Alemboid It sounds like you might be friends with Will Lee, is that who you are referring to? Willie | ||
| willie
Junior Username: willie Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow after posting that I realized our names sound alike, Will Lee or Willie, probably more so than our basses sound Willie | ||
| richbass939
Junior Username: richbass939 Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2004 |
Alemboid, Assuming you're talking about Will, have you seen or maybe even played THE BEATLE BASS? It's kind of a surprise that only one of his Sadowskys sounds that good. I'm sure he's one of their best (at least most visible) customers. They're just right across the bridge from Manhattan, so they're not inconvenient for him. Rich | ||
| alemboid
Intermediate Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 114 Registered: 5-2003 |
Yes, I am referring to Will Lee. Willie, you could pass for him, at least in the pronounciation! lol! I first met Will when Roger Sadowsky, asked me to tech/liason for him. At the time we were at 1600 Broadway, a 5 minute walk from the Ed Sullivan Theater. I've seen the Beatle bass, and it finds its way up on stage occasionally. Will has a few Sadowskys that float around: his sunburst standard 4 that sounds terrific (by the way, it has 1978 Fender Jazz pickups in it), a black standard 4 (that is used as a spare), a 24 fret 5 that is always on stage, his new P Bass with jazz pickups in Warwick Thumb Bass positioning (personally, not as nice sounding as his sunburst 4) a lake placid blue vintage 4, a sunburst vintage 4, a sunburst vintage 5, and several Yamahas, Musicmans, Hofner, Peavey, Carvin, Ricky etc. Don't get me wrong, the other basses don't sound bad, it's just that his main bass is his main bass because it really sounds so good. The same way Marcus Miller's 77 Jazz sounds so good. Did every 1977 Fender Jazz come out sounding like Marcus' bass? Will's main "around town" gigging bass is a custom Yamaha 4 with Jazz pickups. Funny, Ibanez built a Verdine White signature model, but Verdine always played his Yamaha TRB-4p. These guys could play anything, and they choose what they choose. Marcus Miller is Sadowsky's first spotlighted bassist, as Roger did the mods on the 77 Jazz. Will I'd say is the next, as his exposure on the Letterman Show showcases the Sadowsky. Will doesn't make it over to the new Brooklyn factory much at all, and since I left Sadowsky, a friend named Mike is taking great care of Will. I see Will and his wife here and there, and occasionaly go to check out local acts. He is a true professional and a monster player. He's been at it in New York since 1972, and ripening well at 53. He vows to always play "the bass for the gig". So he'll show up with whatever is appropriate- Fender like, or not. Alemboid | ||
| richbass939
Junior Username: richbass939 Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks, Alemboid. It is always interesting to hear about what these guys are actually playing and how the basses are set up. I read a while back that Will has played the Beatle bass on The Late Show. Did he leave it as a lefty and learn to play left. I suppose he could have it set up as a righty in such a way that it could be changed back with no permanent changes. How cool to play the Beatle bass on the stage where Paul first played it in the US. Rich | ||
| s_wood
Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2002 |
Great thread! Like some of the earlier posters (Godoze and Willie), I live near Philadelphia, and play there frequently. There is absolutely a bias against multi-string basses, particularly six strings..."six will get you fired" is what my bass buddies and I often say. There's no doubt that engineers and many band leaders prefer Fenders, and I am convinced it's because they are a known commodity. Every engineer with a couple of months on the job knows how to get a tone from a P-bass or a J-bass, whereas with other basses, including Alembics, they might have to work a bit. That said, whenever I have had a project leader bitch about my Alembic and I have been able to convince him or her to let me give it a try, they have always been happy with my tone. |
