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gare
Advanced Member
Username: gare

Post Number: 219
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post

A quote from Dave Houck in a previous thread:

'a healthy rehashing of the subject is good from time to time so that new members can be aware of the pros and cons of the different methods.'

Ok, I'll bite. What are the pros and cons of straplocks ?
I myself have very limited experience since I never used them before getting my Alembic last fall. (ok I've lead a sheltered life)
They seem to be a better mechanical connection than just the 'button', had my share of mishaps with that system.

Gary
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1914
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post

Here's a previous discussion. A number of members voiced opinions in that thread.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1915
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post

Here are some pros and cons off the top of my head.

Standard button.

Pros - No mechanical lock to fail.

Cons - Generally, seems to be the least secure method. Straps can more easily slip off a standard button. The button hole in the strap gets more pliant and less secure over time depending on the material used. Some straps apparently come with strings and other methods for making the connection to the button more secure.

Dunlop recessed strap locks.

Pros - Visually appealing. For a collector instrument that's not played often, the recessed locks do not detract from the visual lines of the body the way strap buttons do.

Cons - From what I've read here in the forum, there seem to be a greater number of reports of mechanical failures of the locking mechanism than with Schallers; and given the numbers of Dunlops and Schallers, the Dunlops seem to fail at a far greater rate. Installing recessed locks on an existing instrument is not the simple operation that replacing a standard button with a Schaller button is. If you have several instruments, unless they all happen to have recessed locks, you will not be able to use the same strap on all of them.

Schaller strap locks.

Pros - The button is an easy replacement of the standard button; thus putting them on all your instruments is an easy task. And if you want to put the original button back on when you sell the instrument, it's not a problem. The connection between the lock and the button feels secure; it seems to be a much more secure connection that a standard button.

Cons - There have been some reports of failures; though it seems that, as a percentage, the number of failures is small. This seems to be by far the most popular method. The nut holding the lock to the strap tends to get loose and needs to be tightened immediately when it does. (I've been meaning to try some small lock washers, but haven't yet.) The threaded section, over which the strap's button hole is placed and secured with the nut, seems generally to not be long enough (which means there may not be room for lock washers).

Direct connection.

Pros - Screwing the strap directly to the body is the most secure method. There are no mechanical locks to fail.

Cons Ė When you are ready to play, or when finished, you have to raise the instrument up and slip the strap over your head. Obviously, if your playing position has the instrument at your chest, it's more of a problem than if your playing position is at your belt; you have to raise the instrument higher and the available room to slip your head through the strap is less. This can really be a problem when playing on a stage with a low ceiling. (I used to play a lot at a popular blues venue where the ceiling was only a few inches above my head.) Also, if your case is form fitted for your instrument, having a permanently attached strap may be a bit of a problem.

There are some other methods as well; and there are more pros and cons. But this is all I can come up with at the moment off the top of my head.

Personally, I use Schallers on all my basses and straps. Iíve never had a lock failure. The nuts do get loose from time to time; and that is worrisome. I always take the strap off before putting the bass in the guitar stand. (I canít remember why I started doing that, but it does seem safer.) (I also always remove the cable before removing the strap and never put the bass in the stand with the cable still attached.) And I also donít put the strap in the case with the bass. And when I put the strap on, I always check that both buttons are locked into place. My playing position is fairly high up on my chest; thus my strap length if fairly short. I donít think I would feel comfortable having to raise the bass up and slip my head through the strap every time I pick up or put down the bass. For me, it seems the chances of hitting something with the headstock, like a par can hanging from the ceiling, are greater than the chances of a lock failure.

But thatís just me. Other membersí preferences can be as reasonable for their situations as mine seems to be for my situation.
alanbass1
Member
Username: alanbass1

Post Number: 88
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post

I have used schaller locks for years with no failures. Regarding the thread issue: First of all I put the thread through the holein the strap and use a Stanley knife to cut of any of the leather that has been pushed up as a result, leaving a flat area for the washer. I then use 'thread lock' adhesive and a pair of pliers when tightening the nut and this works well.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1916
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post

The thread lock adhesive sounds like an idea I should check out. Thanks.
bassplayer2106
Junior
Username: bassplayer2106

Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:14 pm:   Edit Post

Hi I use schallers and put them in the next hole down so that the strap is too long.I then put the strap on to the bass through the normal hole and then put the strap lock over that on to the button.If the strap lock does fail the strap is still attached to the bass.Also you have a piece of leather between the straplock and the guitar body to prevent it from getting marked.


(Message edited by davehouck on June 15, 2005)
jlpicard
Advanced Member
Username: jlpicard

Post Number: 207
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:35 pm:   Edit Post

The downside of Schaller strap locks is that whenever I take my bass off for a break, I usually undo the body end strap lock and as I put the bass in the stand I often forget about that little piece of metal hanging from the end of my strap and just let go,where upon it promptly swings right into the body! In fact, every ding that I have on my Europa is because of my forgetting about that stupid straplock! ARRRGH! Damn my feeble memory!
keith_h
Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 97
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:38 pm:   Edit Post

I used a little of the non-permanent Locktite on my threads. I finally replaced a 30 year old Schaller set since the button wall was almost worn through. Other than that never had a problem.

I do like Kevins idea of the double attachment though.

Keith
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1918
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:43 pm:   Edit Post

Agreed; Kevin's idea is pretty neat!

Michael; poor memory is an issue with me too!!
howierd
Junior
Username: howierd

Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:50 pm:   Edit Post

I've been using this straplock for over 20 years and have never had a problem. Sorry for the crappy pics.
Howierd
straplock

sorry I don't remember where I got it.
gare
Advanced Member
Username: gare

Post Number: 220
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 2:21 pm:   Edit Post

Great repsonses..tenks !

So far I like the Locktite idea and Kevins 'double up' solution.

Dave..removing the strap and cord before putting bass on a stand is a good idea, think maybe some of us are just forgetful or lazy to do it. Well, I am anyway. I've always used a strap per instrument.
How many times have we put bass on stand then hooked your foot in the strap or tripped on the cord ?

Are the straplocks on Alembic's Schallers ?

G
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 499
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 6:16 pm:   Edit Post

This thread got me thinking. I have never used straplocks and, (knock on wood), have never had a problem. Sometime in the forseeable future I will be receiving my custom Further which will be, by an obscenely huge increment, the most expensive guitar I have ever purchased. I would hate to have my first "strap failure" with this instrument. I looked around and found what appears to be an ingenuous, non-invasive, and el cheapo ($3.95) solution. The Ergo Strap Lock by Dunlop. It basically appears to be a pick-shaped piece of plastic with a hole in the middle that opens enough to place over the standard strap button, (after the strap is connected), and then locks down to prevent the strap from slipping off the button. Here is a link to a picture and description at zzounds:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DNP7007SI

Anybody ever tried these? I just ordered two pair.

Bill, tgo
jacko
Advanced Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 7:44 am:   Edit Post

Bill.
These look like an advance on a very old method I used to use which was to take the clip you used to find on plastic sliced bread packs and slide it over the button after the strap was put on. Fairly heath-robinson and I doubt if it can be done now as I've not seen one for years - all the bread manufacturers seem to use tape to close their bags now.
The only issue I have with the Schallers is that the screw holdin the button to the body can loosen, presumably with the vibration generated playing. I dipped the screws in 'no-nails' before putting them back in and haven't had a problem since. I do make a point of checking everything's tight before a gig though. Imagine dropping your Alembic! doesn't bear thinking about.

graeme
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 503
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 7:55 am:   Edit Post

Graeme:

I have no idea what "heath-robinson" refers to, but if they came up with the bread clip idea, I'm impressed. We still get bread (& bagels - yum) packaged that way around here. I'm going to try it tonight at rehearsal. If you want some bread clips let me know and I can send you some.

Bill, tgo
jacko
Advanced Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 228
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 8:11 am:   Edit Post

Bill. William Heath robinson was an illustrator who is mainly remembered for his outlandish inventions hence any contraption considered out of the ordinary is described as 'Heath robinson'. I believe you have a similar artist called Rube Goldberg. Unfortunately Heath robinson's illustrations are so wrapped up in copyright I haven't been able to find any examples. Rube's work can be found here. . http://www.rube-goldberg.com/
I'm using the Schallers on the rogue and I'm going to fit them to the Epic soon aswell so I'll not be needing any bread clips. Sorry, that probably means fewer bagels for you ;-)

Graeme
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 505
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

Graeme:

Rube Goldberg I know. Most people my age who grew up in the U.S. remember a game called "Mousetrap" in which the players go around the board as they build a Rube Goldbergesque mousetrap out of 15 or 20 plastic parts. The game has been reissued and my kid has one. The website looks like fun, I'll have to check it out at home tonight. If you change your mind about the bread clips, you don't have to settle for bagels. I can also get them off of packages of Thomas' English muffins! That might be more appropriate for your side of the pond. LOL

Bill, tgo
jacko
Advanced Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 5:09 am:   Edit Post

Bill.
We had (and still do) Mousetrap. I rarely played the game, prefering to just set it up and watch everything happen. More fun than a video game I suspect.
Enjoy your muffins.

Graeme
cosmic
New
Username: cosmic

Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 1:20 pm:   Edit Post

I follow alanbass's approach when putting on Schallers: trim away excess leather to insure a snug fit.

Also, and I have been playing with Schallers on all my instruments for 20 years -- you just gotta check the nut to make sure it has not worn loose. Just like you chck your amp knobs, instruments knobs, tuning etc -- add this to the warm-up regime: check to make sure the nut has not loosened. Really, though, even without the strap locks, I always check the old knob anyways for I have found that can loosen over time.

So no problems here -- just keep everythign tight and snug and don't worry too much about it.

I'd put Schallers on all my future instruments unless I saw something that was 100% better. Tried and true.
foth
Junior
Username: foth

Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 1:59 pm:   Edit Post

What we need is a new model: a Schaller style straplock with a Dunlop style spring clip retainer...best of both worlds. Short of that, Kevin's double up idea is genius.
natrab
New
Username: natrab

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 12:58 am:   Edit Post

I use Schallers on all of my basses except for one (my Rick Turner). This is because I need one bass that doesn't squeek when everything is dead silent. I do the occasional theater gig, and the one thing I notice is that if I am sitting down with my bass and it has Schaller straplocks, they rotate and squeek with every movement. That's the only downside I see with the Schallers. On most gigs it doesn't really matter though.
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 449
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 7:40 pm:   Edit Post

I use Schallers on the BigRedBass, an I never have a problem with the strap ends: Tighten that nut with a wrench REEALLL snug and it's going nowhere.

Strangely enough, I have to redo the screw in the buttons on the bass every so often. Never even close to backing out, but just loose enough to aggravate me every so often.

J o e y
kmh364
Senior Member
Username: kmh364

Post Number: 978
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 2:46 pm:   Edit Post

I'm with you, Joey. I use Schallers, as supplied by Alembic as OEM. I tightened the h*ll out of em. I bought extra ends for all my Alembic/Moody straps, and I'll change out the receiver on the Orion bass every so often as they wear.

For years I used the leather screw-in type for years on my guitars. It was very secure, but looked like crapola.
jacko
Advanced Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 4:32 am:   Edit Post

Finally fitted schallers to my Epic yesterday. I'm much happier knowing it's not going to crash to the floor anymore. (check the nuts and screws every gig!)

graeme
dadabass2001
Senior Member
Username: dadabass2001

Post Number: 442
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:37 am:   Edit Post

Okay, I've succumbed to the logic also. I bought one set of Schallers last Saturday, put them on my fretless Epic, and now I'm waiting to get back to GC and buy two more sets for both my other beauties.
Mike
bassman10096
Senior Member
Username: bassman10096

Post Number: 780
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post

I've got Dunlops on my EBO, but only to avoid stabbing myself in the gut with the sharp end of a Schaller at the neck knob (LOL, but true). They're not bad, but the Schallers on my Alembic and Jazz are rock solid. Just have to keep tightening that nut...

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