| Author | Message | ||
| andrewknight
Member Username: andrewknight Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have been comparing tube amps using my Tribute as the test instrument. I have tried the Mesa Mark IV, Rectifier Single and Triple, and a used DC-10. Of Fender, I have tried the Reverb Pro, King, Blues Jr, and Vibro King custom. With Marshal, I don't remember what I tried, but it was higher end and I didn't jive with it too much. To my surprise, based on what I've read here, I simply liked the sound of the Fenders better than the Mesa equipment. The sounds I was looking for were basically summed up by three sounds: 1) Clean jazzy tone 2) Garcia Althea tone 3) Reggae tone akin to say Black Uhuru Chill Out era. Perhaps it's the style of music that I like to play, or the sound that I am used to as we have a Fender amp in the house already, but I found the Fenders to have a better punch, better clean and less processed tone to my ear. My ears may be no good, and I guess all this is very subjective, but I'm wondering if other Alembic guitar players have a clear preference (I know Bill likes Mesa Mark III's). Perhaps I just didn't know enough about how to shape the tones on the Mesa. What I did really like about the Mesa is the ability to set up 5 separate tones activated by footswitch. That was really handy. I'm going to go back and try the Mesa vs. Fender stuff again and will spend more time at this comparison before I make the purchase. I spent about 45 minutes with the Mark IV so far and I think I will go with a combo. Andrew | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 582 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hi Andrew, What a wonderful dilemma to have… I have an old Fender Twin that I keep in my bedroom as a practice amp. I liked it when I bought it in 1970, and I still like it. It’s kind of like an old friend…. It requires very little thought on my part. My main amp is a Mesa DC-5 basically the same as that DC-10 with 50 watts instead of 100, 1X12 instead of 2X12. I’ve been supplementing its sound with an SF-2 lately. I also use a ¾ Mesa cab with Celestions. If I need more, I’ll slave into the Twin. If I need more than that, I’ll go see my therapist…… Sound is such a subjective thing, I think it’s more like; whatever you like is the right gear for you. | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 247 Registered: 7-2004 |
Andrew: I also have a blackface Pro Reverb (late '60s) that I bought from a friend many years ago. I played it for a number of years until I got my Mark III. (Other Fender amps I own: Princeton Reverb; '50s Champ; a Frontman 25 (solid state practice amp), and even a mini tone master (9v battery, size of a couple a cigarete packs). So, obviously, I like Fenders too. In any of these amps the speakers make a difference. I have JBLs in the Pro - extremely clean, present tone, but forget about any dirt or grit. I find the Boogie far more flexible. I can make it sound a lot like a Fender, but there is no way to make the Fender do what the Boogie can do. In many ways the Boogie is similar to an Alembic - the controls take a litle time to really master, but once you do there are almost no limits. Also, you might want to check out a Mark III or even a Mark II. The controls on the Mark IV can really be overwhelming. Don't get me wrong - any of the amps you mention are great. I just have found that the Boogie is incredibly versatile. The other advantage of the Boogie is size. It fits in sports cars where Fenders and Marshalls fear to go. (Of course there is not a similar weight advantage. Boogies are heavy mothers. Especially the hardwood ones, like mine. But the hardwood is SOOOOO beautiful - matches my Electrum. Problem? get a collapsing handtruck!) Either way, I think you'll be happier than running through the P.A. Bill, tgo | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1182 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've been playing with this guitar player recently who has a Vox Valvetronix. He's getting a very nice tone. It's the first time I've played with someone using this amp. | ||
| tom_z
Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2004 |
I play through a Vox Valvetronix at home. The variety of tone is pretty impressive and makes use of actual valve in the power amp section. The amps that it models are: Fender (Blackface 2x12, Tweed 1x12, Tweed 4x10) Marshall (JTM 45, Plexy 100, JCM800, JCM900, JCM2000 (DSL) ) Mesa (Dual rectifier) Soldano (SLO 100) Dumble Overdrive special (Clean chan & Lead chan) Vox AC15, AC15TB, AC30, AC30TB (The power amp switch in class A) I especially like the Dumble models, but the Fender models sound great too and I'm able to dial in appropriate settings for my acoustic guitar as well as my Skylark. I tried one out at the suggestions of Valentino and Susan and I was very impressed. Like my Alembic, the more I tinker with it the more tone I discover. Tom | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1195 Registered: 5-2002 |
Tom; the built-in effects seem to be real nice too. I bet it sounds great with your Skylark. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1206 Registered: 5-2002 |
Tom; I thought you might enjoy hearing this. It's a clip from a CD the guitar player I'm playing with made before I met him. The Vox was used on it and the other songs on the CD (samples of which are at the site). I think the tone on this clip is really nice. http://www.alienmusicclub.com/upload/songs/trashmanSample.mp3 | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2004 |
Andrew~ Like you said, it's very subjective. But, what I find funny is that everyone who swears by a Mesa, also owns or has owned several Fenders (myself included)..... When they came out w/ the Dual & Triple Rectifier's they won over some Marshall devotee's as well. Let your ears make the final desicion.... With your guitar (with it's filters and effect-loop cababilities) I would look for a very "clean" & "true" amp, and put together a nice effects rack to take care of the tone shaping... -Mike | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 588 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree with Mike. A good quality tube amp with an effects loop(combo if you're more comfortable with it). Rack up whatever effects you like and just let your Tribute sing! I've found that there's a great deal of value in the discovery process.... Enjoy | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 590 Registered: 11-2003 |
Also, being as it is a Tribute, it's a fair thought to utilize its loop (as Mike said). I've never owned a guitar with an on board effects loop, so it's a little hard for me to wrap my brain around it. Maybe one day I'll have that pleasure..... | ||
| tom_z
Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks Dave - the guitar tone in the mp3 is, indeed, really nice. I've found that I can get very familiar classic tones from the Valvetronix (which would be great for guitarists in bands that cover a variety of music) as well as dialing in interesting combinations of amp models and effects that are pretty unique sounding (to me, anyway). I spend most of my time playing through the very clean models with few if any effects, and let my Skylark's voice ring through. I do love to push the boundaries though, and see how far away I can get from the ordinary. Tom | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 253 Registered: 7-2004 |
Mike: The perceived Fender/Mesa connection is really not surprising when you consider that Boogie started out by hot-rodding Fender Princetons. In fact, the name was bestowed by Carlos Santana who played an early hot-rodded Princeton and said "Man, this little amp really boogies". The rest is history. I certainly relate to my Mark III as a Fender on steroids. Hey, a new song inspiration: The Balco Blues! LOL Bill, tgo | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 687 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is probably a dumb question but I can't remember ever hearing a guitar player mention using a pre-amp and power amp. Does this exsist in the guitar world? Sam | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1216 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sam; Our fellow club member Mike, whose nic is Pace and who posted previously to this very thread, uses a Mesa Studio preamp and Mesa 90/90 power amp. (Message edited by davehouck on January 13, 2005) | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2004 |
Yeah Sam, we do exist, believe it or not  A modular setup seemed ideal & it was the next logical step for me. Lately I've been doing showcase gigs where we're playing one 45-90 minute set and its more practical to bring a combo. My cabinets are small (1x12"s) but its kind of a hassle to keep an eye on 4 pieces of equipment vs. 2 when your loading in and out of a club, ya know?!? Bill~ As far as Mesa's birth and evloution, it's also interesting to look at how long it has taken for Fender to play catch up. Aside from master volume combos in the 70's, I think the first Fenders to have features like "pull bright" or vol/gain/master gain stages that were the Twin II & Deluxe II's in the early 80's (still no funky 5-band eq!!). -Mike (my last name is) Pace .... lol.... | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 688 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dave/Mike Thanks, I was just curious. Seperate amp/preamp seems pretty common in bass racks but I've not heard of it mentioned in guitar racks and was wondering if component systems were available. Sam | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 257 Registered: 7-2004 |
Actually, Jerry Garcia used essentially a pre-amp/power amp set up for years. He used the pre-amp section of a Fender Twin Reverb and put it into a MacIntosh 2300 power amp I believe. Bill, tgo | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 311 Registered: 6-2002 |
So did Bobby Weir. I believe that was during the days of Alembics direct invovlement with the Deads live sound. Mike | ||
| andrewknight
Member Username: andrewknight Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2004 |
Was it the earlier, or later years that Jerry used the Fender preamp? | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 294 Registered: 7-2004 |
Andrew: I copied the following from the dozin.com web site (a GREAT site for info about the Dead and their equipment) "72- ... By this point, his silverface Fender Twin amp was already a central part of his sound. He continued to use the preamp from the Fender amp through 1993. From the late '70's to about 1993 he didn't use the power amp & speakers of the Fender, instead using three JBL D120/E120 speakers in a vertical box powered by a McIntosh solid state amp (note that this probably made the power amp Class A, which is not the Class AB power amp that the Fender normally has). It was miked with a Sennheiser 421 mic." The site also has the rig that Jerry went to in the 90's. Bill, tgo | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2004 |
Interesting to note~ there's a part in the GD movie where there's what appears to be a F2-B sitting on top of his cab.... A lot of the late 70's - early 80's JGB shows he used a Mesa combo. Eventually the guts of the silverface got paired with the guts of a blackface & you'd see those together in a custom cabinet fliped on it's side next to his cab.. | ||
| edwin
Junior Username: edwin Post Number: 50 Registered: 5-2002 |
On top of his cab? That would be 35 feet in the air! :-) In the GD movie, each instrument is running through its own PA with no intervening amps, mics or mixing boards. The blackface and silverface were setup as a primary amp and a backup. The silverface got the most use. What I always wondered was, why 3 JBLs? How was it run off the channels of the 2300? Why not 4? or 2? Weird. Edwin | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 614 Registered: 11-2003 |
I run my guitar through 3 12's. Why? I have no idea..... It just worked out that way... Weird? Sure, why not? It sounds good to me... Oh yeah, the sound must have something to do with it. Or mayhaps; The three bears fit in somewhere; 2 12's? Not enough umph.... 4 12's? Too heavy... 3 12's?.... Just right!...... Who's that blonde girl? Yeah.... Weird..... LOL! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 763 Registered: 9-2003 |
Andrew: Just my two cents, but have you tried some of the "boutique" amps? For the price of some of the mass-market stuff (or sometimes for less), you can get hand-made hard-wired stuff that'll blow the more common stuff away quality and tone-wise. For instance if you're into the vintage Fender vibe, Victoria, Dumble, Koch, Straub, etc. make a super nice amps. For a Marshall sound, Germino, TopHat, Straub, Splawn, etc. are hard to beat. My point here is that it is ultimately your money and your choice. Play the hell out of EVERYTHING before you spend. I've spent over 25 years trying to find the right tone myself, and I think I'm finally there. I've settled on a modded silverface '79 Fender Twin Reverb 2x12 combo (in a Sultone custom mahogany/maple oversize cab with Weber VST JBL D-120 clones) for clean stuff and a Custom Straub Cantus 50W Marshall "plexi"-style head and custom 2X12 cab for the dirty stuff. See my thread in the "Misc." section of the club for pix and info if interested. Whatever you go with, good luck and enjoy! (Message edited by kmh364 on February 11, 2005) | ||
| andrewknight
Member Username: andrewknight Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2004 |
I still haven't made the purchase. I have decided to simply play through a Fender Blues Jr. that provides an adequate sound until I can convert my garage into a sound studio. Then I'll get serious about sound system and amp selections. I figure I might as well listen to what I am going to purchase in the place I'll play the most before I buy the stuff. Thanks for all the input everyone! I do have to say that I really like the sound through the little Fender...it is a tube amp combo and the Tribute really makes it sound good! | ||
| tom_z
Intermediate Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 136 Registered: 7-2004 |
Andrew - you might look into Two Rock amplifiers http://www.two-rock.com/ Check out some of the sound clips on their site. Tom | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 862 Registered: 9-2003 |
Have you considered a relatively cheap, mass-market Fender-style combo amp that is available everywhere and has great tone? Peavey's Classic 30! Tweed cab, mostly tube, spring reverb and awesome sound! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 864 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bill Boekhoff over at Sultone.com did an awesome wood cab for a Classic 30 that needs to be seen to be believed. Either way, that little amp has vintage tone for days, and is about as portable as it gets for an amp that can gig out. | ||
| alanbass1
Member Username: alanbass1 Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2005 |
Being a guitarist of many years I have gone through so many amps it's unreal. Many of these were Boogies and the only one's I would recommend are the Mk 1, Mk3 Simul Class and the Blue Angel. I have two amps now, a Badcat Cub II for small gigs and a Victoria Low Powered Twin for bigger venues and these just blow away the mass market manufacturers for clear clean tone with depth, and break up ever so nicely. They also take to pedals extremely well. I would agree with kmh 364, try some of the Boutique makers before plunging for a Boogie as they are not that much more expensive. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 459 Registered: 7-2004 |
Mark III Simul Class YEAH!!! I use it at the studio (reheasal) set at 15 watts (I suspect it would be hard to find a louder 15 watts anywhere) and at 75 watts for gigs. Two amps in one! Or more like six amps in one - 3 channels, 15/75 watts. The main complaint with the Mark III is the shared gain control for the clean rhythm (Fender) and crunch rhytm (Marshall) channels. Solution? I had Boogie take out the direct out pot in the back (I never used it) and replaced it with a gain control for the crunch rhythm channel. Problem solved. Great amp. But I don't think you'd go wrong with the others mentioned above either. Bill, tgo |
