| Author | Message | ||
| mpisanek
Member Username: mpisanek Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2005 |
I know this has probably been discussed here before but I can't seem to find the thread, so here goes. I love the tone of my Alembic and am thinking about using some effects along with it. The question that I have is this. Does anyone make an effect of a very high audio quality that will not completely discolour the sound of my instrument? The likes of Boss make both pedals and a multi-FX unit. Are these of the same audio quality? Are they even good audio quality? Are there any "botique" effects manufacturers around? If I do decide to use effects, I would stick to very straight forward effects and apply them very sparingly, but I was just wondering which effects are known for their high audio quality. Thanks. | ||
| drz
Junior Username: drz Post Number: 46 Registered: 2-2003 |
I use a Bass POD XT Live as part of my rig, Ampeg SVT 4 Pro/Classic 810 and 215 enclosures. The amp modeling, compression, a touch of reverb, and a little chorus make my Alembic really shine. Rule of thumb, a little goes a long way. I have tried almost all the others and this one seems to work best for me. | ||
| gare
Advanced Member Username: gare Post Number: 263 Registered: 11-2003 |
Michael What type of effects are you after ? Chorus, reverb, delay, pitchshift, etc. ? I stay away from pedals, to my ear they're noisey, most rack mount efx processors are quieter. Checkout units from Lexicon, TC Electronics, Alesis, Boss, Line. etc. About the only thing you wont get from an effects processor is distortion (on most units). I have both TC Elec and Alesis units, the TC is quieter and more versatile (IE:more effects), but its also double the price of the Alesis. And if you have a bunch more to spend theres always Eventide. Good luck on your hunt. | ||
| jazzyvee
Advanced Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 251 Registered: 6-2002 |
I' m more of a puritan. don't use any effects on my bass. I do with guitars but only when absolutely neccesssary. When I do, I prefer the analogue stomp boxes as the bypass sound is more natural. Digital multiFX box's don't seem to have a hardwired bypass. Even in off mode the input ( bass, guitar or whatever) always goes through the analogue to digital converters. I dislike the way they remove your sound. I use an SF-2 as a tone control and i can keep my natural sound and add as much of the SF-2 as I like. Thats about it. Personal thing really. | ||
| edwin
Member Username: edwin Post Number: 89 Registered: 5-2002 |
I use a Lexicon G2. It has a hardwired bypass, so when you are bypassed there are no a/d or d/a conversions happening (although there is still a buffer amp in the circuit. This has bothered some guitarist purists, but I don't have a problem with it as the Alembic and pretty much every other bass I play is preamped to begin with). It's very versatile and should have everything you need in it. Only bummer is that it is discontinued. Edwin | ||
| beelee
Member Username: beelee Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2004 |
I prefer a rack unit over pedals, I have them in my Amps fx loop. ( never have to worry about dead batteries) As others have said, used sparingly...less is more Rig #1 is a SWR SM-900 with an ART SGX Nitro and X-15 or X-12 foot controller. Rig #2 is a SWR SM-500 with a Lexicon MPX G2 and MPX R1 foot controller Rig #3 is a SWR Super Redhead with a ART SGX Nitro and the above controllers. I do use 3 pedals on occasion: Crybaby 105Q bass Waa, Digitech Bass Whammy and Tubeworks Blue Tube. I use Chorus the most out of all the FX, and have created presets for Flanger, Phaser, Octaver ( -12), Delay (slapback and long) , Reverb, Overdrive/Distortion, some harmony ( 4ths & 5ths) which I 've not really used yet. The Lexicon G2 is real nice, I'd say its on the same level as a POD, I just got another one and might be swapping the ART out of Rig #2, It is discontinued and can only be found on the used market. Michael Manring was using Lexicon, and Steve Lawson uses a G2 I believe. The ART SGX Nitro is similar to a G2 or a POD, but is also discontinued. They made some nice gear, I believe ART was started by former MXR employees. I have 2 ART Nightbass pre-amps/fx units as well, Stu Hamm was using them and on Chris Squire's website he has one in his rack. ART is a good company, they still support all their old gear, offer upgrades and great service, all the times I have dealt with them. although I have no experience with them, I've heard good things about TC Electronics and Line 6 gear. I don't always play my Alembics, but have been using the above for many years with all my different basses, its all been reliable and I can get any sound I need/want to. enough of my blabbing on........lol different things work for different people, it depends on what you want to do and personal preference. Bruce | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 233 Registered: 12-2003 |
After experiemnting with loads of different effects and a couple of different amps, I've come to a painful conclusion...I don't know s**t about either! Despite my own trial and error, plus several articles, I'm still convinced I don't have my pedals in the correct order. The active electronics in my Alembics behave clearly differently than my passive guitars. Despite playing at low volumes, I seem to get a lot of noise, neccesitating an MXR Smart Gate. I still don't quite understand the difference between overdrive and distortion. Nor have I found anyone who can explain it. And I don't even want to get into the subject of effects loops. So, after much soul searching, I decided to enlist the services of master tone guru, Pete Cornish. I spoke with him about a fairly basic custom pedalboard (Wah, overdrive/distortion, delay, chorus, flanger, phase). Basically everything I'll pretty much need. Unfortunately, David Gilmour has him tied up for the rest of the year, so it'll be quite a wait. What a gentleman, though. He spent about an hour on the phone with me discussing amps, tone, his work with Brian May, Yes, David Gilmour, etc... It was a lot like speaking with the folks at Alembic. Here you have a guy whose client list reads like a who's who of rock legends and yet he takes the time to talk with an absolute nobody. He'll be able to design separate inputs to account for the varying outputs of active/passive guitars and will have everything wired so that the true sound of each effect comes through...not the sonic muddy water I've got sitting on my floor. I'm very excited. Gotta start saving now! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 696 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jonathan: You might want to check out a book called "Getting Great Guitar Sounds" by Michael Ross, published by Hal Leonard. A wonderful and very useful overview of the different types of effects, suggestions on order of placement, how to get certain sounds, etc. It's probably only about $10 or $15. Well worth it if you track it down. Bill, tgo | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1073 Registered: 9-2003 |
Ah Jonathan! You beat me to it. I was about to suggest Mr. Cornish myself. I've been hemming and hawing for a year or so about a custom Cornish pedalboard, but I neither know what I want nor do I have the money ($10k or so) to spare to spend on it. I guess I'll have to live vicariously through guys like yourself for now. Once you decide exactly what you wanna do, I'd love to see you start a thread here to document the process. From what I understand, Pete will send you progress pix and dialogue during the entire process just like Alembic. Good luck in your quest for TONE! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 234 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bill...thanks for the tip. I found the book on the Hal Leonard website. Kevin...I'll keep you posted, though it'll be awhile before things get going. I am a bit nervous though. As it is now, if I want to add or remove an effect from the pedalboard, it's as easy as 1,2 3. Once Mr. Cornish builds me one of his masterpieces, those effects are set in stone. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1075 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, Jonathan. Don't sweat it, though...lean heavily on Pete's vast knowledge and experience to guide you. He can also make sure that you can add additional stuff later via buffered loops, if desired. You are only limited by your imagination and your wallet, LOL! I would also recommend that you contact Messrs. John Roscoe (jroscoe@comcast.net) and Ray Johnson (drjohnson2@msn.com) as they both have $10k-plus custom '04 Cornish pedal boards. Both have also posted reviews of same on http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/ I have corresponded with John in the past with regards to his Cornish board and find him to be very approachable and just a plain nice guy. His website (dedicated to David Gilmour)is also very good and gives lots of info on his board and Pete himself (including Gilmour's custom TUBE pedalboard). http://www.tonefromheaven.com/ Enjoy, Kevin BTW, did you ever get a Reeves UK amp rig? I ck'ed them out on their site and am quite impressed. They're quite a deal for anyone that wants that classic Hiwatt sound/look and are hand-made/hardwired with all premium components just like the old Dave Reeves/Sound City-era amps. They even have the Dave Gilmour custom 100W signature head (without Dave's name, of course). http://www.reevesamps.com/ http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Reeves_Amplification/ (Message edited by kmh364 on September 29, 2005) | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 246 Registered: 12-2003 |
Does anyone know which of the old Boss CE-2 pedals is supposed to be superior...the green label or the black label? I know the Japanese is preferred over the Taiwanese. Jonathan | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1104 Registered: 9-2003 |
Jon, Try dropping Pete a line, he probably knows...he knows EVERYTHING, LOL! I'm Not kidding! Cheers, Kevin FWIW, Besides a Cry Baby Wah, an MXR Distortion +, and an Ibanez Chorus (same vintage and style as the classic Tube Screamer), I've owned very few stomp boxes. I do still have an 80's vintage TSR&D Rockman IID and a rack-mount Yamaha multi-effector (SPX-50D) that both sound great. The Rockman is noisy and non-versatile, and the Yammy has great distortion (and it's DIGITAL!!!!!), but doesn't allow for effects chain reconfiguration, however. These days, it's guitar straight thru the amp(s), but I still dream of that custom Cornish PB! | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 248 Registered: 12-2003 |
Actually, it was Pete who told me to get a hold of a CE-2 for the pedalboard. In his opinion, it's the best chorus pedal made. I just didn't want to bother him again with this detail if I didn't have to. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 718 Registered: 7-2004 |
So let me see if I have this right. You search high and low to find your desired effects. Then some guy in England mounts them all in one box and charges $10,000 to do it? There's something I'm missing here. Bill, tgo | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 249 Registered: 12-2003 |
God there'd better be more to it than that! I'm sure if I had the technical know how, I could get everything just right...but I don't and can't. I have 9 pedals on my board. I don't have a band that plays one style of music. I just jam with a couple of guys and we're doing a bit of everything. So I want to have almost any effect I'll ever need. I have quite a bit of noise, so much that even at the low volumes at which I play, I need an MXR noise gate to control it. This monster sucks as much tone as it does my patience. Pete will wire it so that every pedal in the chain will sound as if it's the only one the guitar is going through. He'll design separate inputs to account for the varying outputs of active/passive electronics. The board I want, Pete said, is very straightforward, so I'm hoping we're quite a distance from $10,000. At this point, though, playing is often too frustrating to enjoy entirely. In that respect it's worth it. If we cross the bridge into five figures, maybe I'll rethink things...we haven't discussed price yet. | ||
| tom_z
Intermediate Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 193 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jonathan - until your Cornish board arrives you might try a multi-effects pedal. I feel a bit silly suggesting this as I'm sure you have considered this possibility. A good friend of mine, who plays out 5 days a week, uses a Boss multi-effect board. It sounds fantastic with his Fender Twin, and he has lots of versitility in terms of combining effects and saving them as patches. I believe his unit stores up to 30 presets for the different types of music he plays. Also he can shove it into a pocket in his gig bag. I've never noticed any more than the usual noise one would get with a Strat or Tele and the effects sound very good. There is quite a variety of this kind of board out there for a modest price. Might be worth a try for grins. Tom | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 251 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tom, I tried the POD XT. Found it a little tedious to work with unless I used the presets. Things with manuals more than 100 pages require more patience than I have. Plus, some effects just sounded very sterile and processed. Now I use it with headphones to play at work for a few moments here and there or very very late at night. I've spoken to people who swear by the Boss, Digitech and POD multi effects boards. I may give the new POD XT Live a try, if for no other reason than it will be a bit less cumbersome to drag around than my pedalboard. In the hands of someone like myself, the Cornish board is clearly more of a luxury than anything else. But then...so are my Alembics! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1108 Registered: 9-2003 |
Sorry, duplicate post. (Message edited by kmh364 on October 14, 2005) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1109 Registered: 9-2003 |
Jonathan, Yup, we're back to the ShopSmith analogy again: anything designed to do multiple tasks doesn't do any one of them particularly well. While I'm not usually a fan of digital, digital multi effectors have been around for a long time. Like my old Yamaha, most of 'em have some decent effects, but not all of the effects are decent or useful. They all usually add a bunch of noise as well. Despite the Yamaha being digital, it has an awesome distortion, but you can't combine it with anything other than what the factory programmed, and it does add a bunch of noise (plus some digital artifacts as well). I won't even talk about the hassles of real-time effects program switching, either with MIDI or a sequential footswitch. Analogue multi-effects are usually just pedals put in a common case and suffer from tone suck-out and noisiness...and you can't necessarily change their order in the chain. Modeling effectors which are all the rage today are just newfangled digital processors with fancy algorithmns that try to approximate the real deal. Some, like the Vox, have a tube or two in the circuit to try and "HiFi' out the sound, but you still have those craptastic digital "approximations" mucking about with the sound. You know, like equal or splenda trying to approximate sugar, LOL! Close (?), but no cigar, LOL! I've found that the only way to truly "approximate" a Marshal stack, for example, is to play thru a Marshall stack. "Just as good as" usually isn't. Pete tries to take the best-sounding effects (usually analogue) and make them as noise-free and least harmful to tone as possible. A noble fight...it works for Gilmour and Co...hopefully, it'll work for you as well without breaking the bank. Good Luck in your quest for the Holy Grail of Tone, I'm envious and, for now, will have to live vicariously thru your efforts. For now, I'll jut have to live with a simple guitar thru a hi-quality cable into a tube amp(s) until I can get my hands on something that sounds good without all the minuses associated with guitar effects. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| ed_r
Junior Username: ed_r Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2005 |
The only thing I know about uising effects- guitar or bass or whatever- is that I don't have any idea how to get a good tone from any of them. I have NO taste when it domes to tha tsorta thing, so I'm a bit more of a stickler on the guitar and pickups than the next guy. If a song needs an effect, I let someone else figure out what , where, when, how, and if I can wangle it, let them do the switching too, because I never did learn to tap-dance, much less tap-dance onto specific switches at specific times. I just don't have the mental capacity. Gotta keep it simple or my head explodes. That's nasty and a real bitch to clean up, not to mention PAINFUL, so I avoid it whenever possible. | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 372 Registered: 1-2003 |
I assume that you don't own any Taurus pedals then Ed? ;-) | ||
| ed_r
Junior Username: ed_r Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2005 |
Well, no, Roger, no Taurus pedals here. I drive a Toyota. ;) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1137 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm with Ed and Jon: I have no patience for tweeking, nor am I particularly good at it. When I was young(er), dumb(er) and "full of it" (LOL!), I used to love to play with knobs. As I've gotten older and lazier, and my patience has waned, I want everything to be plug 'n play. If you need to spend hours twisting knobs and dials, then to me it just isn't worth it. I know, I know: Bass-wise, I bought an Alembic with EMW electronics and an Eden head! They are both blatant violations against my strict policy of KISS! While they do make a great combo, and sound great, the relative complexity of either makes repeatability of sound very difficult. Simple isn't the most versatile, but it is much less aggravation in the long run...the less knobs the better! I'd love to have Gilmour's sound (not to mention his talent, bank account, life, etc. LOL!), but he has the patience of a Saint, an army of techs, and truckloads of money to help him get his sound. Not bloody likely for me in my lifetime. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| jacko
Advanced Member Username: jacko Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2002 |
'but he has the patience of a Saint' Roger Waters might argue with you on that point LOL ;-) Graeme | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1145 Registered: 9-2003 |
I didn't say he had patience for ole' Rog, just for his sound, LOL! Actually, he probably doesn't have patience for that either...but he can afford to pay others to exhaust their patience in persuit of his sonic whims. Obviously, David and the other blokes have enough dosh to never have to worry about touring again. Oh yeah, and Rog and Dave probably decided that even if they'd like to add a little more Sterling to the pile, it's not worth dealing with one another's nonsense again, LOL! Pity for us: I'd love to see them for one big 'farewell' blow-out before one or more of 'em goes to the great gig in the sky. I'm probably not alone on that one. Come on chaps...Ginger, Eric and Jack sucked it up after 37yrs, how's about you guys burying the hatchet (not in each other's back, mind you, LOL!) and give the fans a treat? |
