| Author | Message | ||
| indigo
Junior Username: indigo Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi, Due to the recent rain/humidity here in Las Vegas, the neck of my 4 string Orion flattened out a bit. This afternoon I adjusted the truss rods to get the action back to where I like it. I also took the time to intonate the strings (I'm getting much better at that). After getting everything all tuned up and intonated I noticed that while my open E and its octave (12th fret) were in tune, the notes in between were flat. Noticeably flat on the F, F#, and G and getting more in tune until I hit the E on the 12th fret. This is the same across all of the strings. Any ideas?? This one has me puzzled. But then again, I'm kind of new to all of this. Thanks for any help you gurus can provide and forgive me if this has been discussed before. I have no idea what to search for. :-) Thanks, Troy (Message edited by indigo on October 23, 2005) | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 517 Registered: 11-2002 |
If the lowest fretted notes are flat, then your strings are too long (hope I don't have this backward...). Forget about the 12th fret for a moment, and just move the saddle on one of the strings towards the neck (shorten the string). Does that help the low fretted notes? And assuming it does, how does the 12th sound to you now? Moving the saddle will make more difference for the lower notes, so hopefully you'll find that the 12th still works out pretty well. My guess would be that you may use different finger pressure (more) when intonating at the 12th, or perhaps you tend to generally use more as you move up the neck. It might also help if you describe your procedure for intonating, e.g. do you use the 12th fret and harmonic, by ear or with a tuner, etc. Good luck, and let us know what you find. -Bob | ||
| indigo
Junior Username: indigo Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2005 |
Thanks Bob. I'll see check it out when I get home this evening. When I intonate I use a Peterson strobostomp. I haven't had this problem in the past when doing this so perhaps I had a heavy finger yesterday. Thanks again and I'll post my results. Troy | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 643 Registered: 4-2004 |
sounds like the neck is not set correctly i would contact val from experience if the open and 12th are good and the harmonic and the first 3 frets are off- its the neck- the neck should not be dead flat- there should be a slight bow inwood. very slight.... call alembic...... good luck | ||
| indigo
Junior Username: indigo Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2005 |
Thanks Flax. This bass is barely a month old! I just fiddled with it again tonight and noticed that it really only happens on the E string. The other three appear fine. It is strange. The open E is in tune and the 12 fret is in tune. But the 1st fret F is pretty flat but each note get a bit better until I hit the 12th fret (which is in tune). Unless anyone else has any ideas, I'll call Alembic tomorrow. Thanks again, Troy | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 519 Registered: 11-2002 |
One other odd thing to check: when the open E is in tune, how does the harmonic at the 12th measure? If they are different, and you tune the string to the harmonic instead of the open, how do the low fretted notes sound? What strings are you using, and how does the position of your E saddle compare to the others? | ||
| ed_r
Junior Username: ed_r Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2005 |
My med-scale spoiler has the saddle under the narrower part of the string, which makes little methematical sense to me but it seems to intonate fone so I'm not messing with it. | ||
| indigo
Junior Username: indigo Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2005 |
Ok...one last odd thing then I'll put this to sleep...as well as myself. I'm beginning to wonder if it is the East Meets West electronics fooling the tuners (I've also hooked up a Boss TU-2 to make sure the strobostomp wasn't going on the fritz). I play an A on the E string (tuner shows it flat) and an open A. My ears (by no means dog-like) hear the two notes as in tune. Odd... Thanks again to everyone for their input. I am honored to be a small piece of this fine group. Troy | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 644 Registered: 4-2004 |
you probably need to adjust one of the truss rods nearer to the e string. small adjustments and recheck- like 1/8inch in turns keep the bass in a hard case and get yourself a dehumidifier cannister easily found on ebay its the size of a glass case and might help you out | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1149 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hey Troy, I didn't know you got your bass already! Post some pix, huh? FWIW, Alembic sets the action as low as possible "just to show you it can be done". Unless you have perfect climate/humidity control, the neck can't help but move. Try the truss rod adjustment. After you get enough relief, bring the action up a little and do the intonation. You might wanna try new strings as sometimes you get a "kink" in the string if you lengthen the string via the intonation screws. Use a strobe with the bass in playing position before adjsting anything. Use light pressure on the strings when intonating to avoid pulling the fretted octave sharp. See Joey's thread for adjusting in the Must See's. Cheers, Kevin BTW, What is your take on the bass? Owners of the other EMW Orions haven't appeared here so far? | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 481 Registered: 9-2002 |
Remember that tuning is tension . . . that is, a given string tuned to a certain pitch on a given scale length cold be expressed in lbs./ft. to get that pitch. More tension is sharp. Less tension if flat, referenced to the original tuned pitch. This is REAL important in the piano business, as the total tension on your average 9-foot concert grand is around 60,000 lbs: No wonder the harps are all X-Rayed to check the metallurgy. In the old days, these would occasionally experience sudden deformation, could really ruin your day ! So, for a fretted note to go flat on a string that strobes open 'in pitch' would make me look for one of two things: First, never trust your strings. Bad winding in the string itself. Incorrect winding around the post. Wrong scale strings. If I understand you recently bought this bass, are these the same strings that have been on it who knows how long in the store? If they are, throw them out. Use your string-du-jour, then see what happens. Second, the bass would have to be letting it go flat. Unique to Alembics: Are the adjustable nut screws snug, especially on the E side? Is the E just enough to big for the nut slot to go flat once you begin to play after you play, is their good clearance? Is the saddle/bridge assembly snug, all the screws? For my own two cents, until you install new strings in your preferred brand of the right scale length and gauges for your bass, there are LOTS of blind alleys to get lost in using old strings to diagnose this. J o e y | ||
| indigo
Junior Username: indigo Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2005 |
Thanks for the info Joey. Good stuff. The bass is just less than a month old (direct from Alembic) and has the stock Alembic strings. I guess it wouldn't hut to go ahead and swap them out for some new ones (I have some Alembics and Thomostiks of the same scale) and see what happens. The big brain bender is that it is in tune open and at the 12th....but flat in between...and only on the E string. Weird! I'll changes the strings either today or tomorrow and post the results. Thanks again for your insight. I really appreciate it. |
