| Author | Message | ||
| olieoliver
New Username: olieoliver Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2006 |
I just purchases this bass and I notice that it is not as hot as my other basses whem played through my amp. I have a Dave Eden Combo that usaully kicks major butt (I haven't tried through my SWR rig yet). I have several Warwick's, some 9 volt and some 18 volt preamps, that are much fatter and are quit a bit hotter through this amp. I'm sure I just need to make some adjustments but am not to familiar with the controls. I also read that there is a trim adj. for the preamps on Rogue basses and I believe this bass has them too. Thought I'd ask before I pull the back cover off. Any and all advice is welcome. You guys know these basses better than I. Thanks. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3362 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here is the section on trim pots in the FAQ section of the board. There are two trim pots, one for each pickup. Turn clockwise to increase the gain. The FAQ should answer your questions on trim pots, but if you have further questions, let us know. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks. I went ahead and pulled the back cover off and adjusted the trim pots. The previous owner had the neck PU @ full position and the bridge PU alomst all the way down. Seemed kind of odd to me. I have them both about 3/4. I adjusted the PU heigths too, the bridge PU was bottomed out and uneven. I've played with the settings on the amp too and have it sounding much better. Not sure what kind of strings are on it now but I will put a set of Elixirs on it tomorrow. I've pretty good luck with them. I noticed the B string rest in the bridge saddle by the core not the wrapping. Is this Alembics recomendation for sting? Have other questions too but I'll research the info section see if I can answer them there. Thanks again. | ||
| kungfusheriff
Senior Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 490 Registered: 8-2003 |
You're halfway there...Alembic markets their own strings, which are pretty nice as you'd expect, but a few of us here swear by DR rounds or Thomastik flats. My experience with Elixirs wasn't great, but that was when they first came out. That is a really weird setup...who did you get the bass from, what kind of music did they play? | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 135 Registered: 5-2002 |
That low B string is a taper core. Since the string is thinner over the bridge piece it should be less stiff and vibrate more purely. I usually like taper core low Bs, but one consideration for you will be that if you switch to a regular B string with full wraps, it will sit much higher than the current string. You can't individually adjust bridge heights on the Alembic bridge without changing the bridge piece so this might be a consideration. Of course, you can lower that side of the bridge and most of the effect will be on the low B, but it will affect the other strings as well. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2313 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi David, how are you? Long time no see! With the risk that people start to call me "picky" I have some remarks here! In the string vocabulary one talks about "taperwound" or "naked core" and some talk about "tapercore". "Taperwound" means that the wrapping around the core is diminishing to the ball end of the string. So there IS still some wounding but thinner. "Naked core" means that the diminishing of the wounings ends before the ball end of the string leaving the core "naked" to go over the bridge. Some people call this "taper (to) core". Indeed the sustain is higher and I remember scientific tests somewhere with graphics that tried to prove that. As David said: the stifness of the string is lower. More -what I remebered of the graphics- because you obviously have to raise the bridge to get the wanted distant between strings and fingerboard the downpressure of the string in the bridge (and the guitar) is higher. Also the vibration of the bridge (minuscule rcking back and forward) is higher because of the higher positioning. Tak ein account that the "mass" of the string is more or less identical between a "naked core" and a "standard" (it is "only" the core at the ball end that is "naked"). All these charcteristics are considered as giving a better sustain. Years ago my "Dame" (MK four string who is living in Italy now)was equipped with Rotosounds "naked core" strings called "Superwounds". I remember a time that as well Mark King as Boon -both from Level 42- were endorsing them. My 2cts. Paul TBO I hope this is understandable ...it IS hard sometiems to find the appropriate words! | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2006 |
I bought the bass on eBay/musicexchange so I am not sure who had it before me. I think part of the problem is that these strings are probably just old and dead. Before I retired I changed my strings EVERY week. I love the growl of new strings. I have just recentley tried the Elixir's and they seem to be alright but I am not 100% happy with them. I've tried several brands but ahve found nothing that really excites me. The brand I used years ago where John Pearse and they where awsome, but I can't find them any longer. I'll try the Alembics. I have a few questions though. Are all Alembic 5 string sets open core, do they make differant gauge strings,(I have like 45,65,85,105,125(128) and I wonder if they will give me a break on the price if I buy in quantity they are pretty expensive. I have one more question about the electronics. but will ask in my next letter. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2315 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hy Olie, no ...the ALmbic strings are not naked core but "standard" wrapped. Well ...nothing with Alembic is really standard (not even their T-shirts as I have heard) so the strings too: they are in fact "flattened". Beware: every winding is round but the rounding is ellips. So they feel smoother. They loose some crispyness but as Mica pointed out somewhere in these happy-pages: "a neck through Alembic is very crispy sounding in nature". I never use them because they are not available ovehee and budgetwise out of my league. Paul TBO | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2006 |
Please excuse my ignorance on some of these questions but this is my first Alembic. I believe I read in here that some models have a stereo output jack on them that is switchable. I assume that is not the case with this MK with rouge controls, if I am wrong please let know. I was wondering though about the low impedance PU's. I know most low impedance signals need a balanced chord to connect to an amp or board. I assume the preamp eliminates the need for this. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3365 Registered: 5-2002 |
Your jack is not stereo. And a regular instrument cable is all that is needed, though you will probably want to use a fairly good quality cable. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2006 |
I use Monster Cables, bass instrument cable. I think is insane when I see someone spend thousands of dollars on an amp and instrument and then through a 9.95 cable in between them. When I was still playing live I always went wireless and always played my Kubickis'. I was a very animated player to say the least and my Kubickis' are very easy to maneuver since they have no head on the neck. Anyway I never liked the way my rig sounds with a wireless you just lose too much verses a good cable. | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 136 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul - I *LOVED* those old Superwounds, although I think I only had them on an Alembic once. They were a truly rare treat which hasn't been around for quite a long time. Perhaps more clarification on the differences is appropriate. Bass strings have a straight gauge steel core wire that is wrapped with the winding wire that you feel. Because there are practical limits to how heavy the core can be before it becomes a stiff rod instead of a string (!), each manufacturer picks a different mix of core wire and wraps to get to a particular size. A roundwound low B string often requires two sets of wraps to get to the big diameter and that's part of why they often sound bad. I think even heavy low E strings may have two wrap layers. Flatwounds have multiple wraps as well. On a regular string, the wrap wires extend virtually all the way to the loop around the ball end and the full diameter of the string passes over the bridge. By contrast, the Superwound strings were "exposed core". In this design, the outer wraps stop before the bridge and only the center core wire passes over the bridge. When you do this, the string is obviously much freer to have pure vibration. This is how the lower strings in a piano are made and, in fact, Superwound referred to them as "piano-string design" (PSD). All four strings in the set had this bare core design. The sounded great, but were expensive to make and, worst of all, every different kind of bass has a different length between the bridge and the ball end stop, so many different sets had to be manufactured (Fender, Musicman, Rickenbacker, etc.). They also had a "variable length set" which had no ball end on the bare end and included a set of adjustable ball ends which you moved to the position you needed, then tightened with a setscrew! The Superwounds were the original factory equipment for the early Steinberger L-2 bass. I played Steinberger for many years and still have three L basses. In addition to double ball ends (no headstock!), the witness points on the bridge were knife edges. I still have a few sets of Superwound 707s from that era. When you use modern strings, the wraps pass over the knife edge and it's not as nice to tune as the knife edge bumps the strings up and down as you tune. What you usually see these days are what I would call a "taper core" or "taper wound". On these strings, they stop the outer wrap layer before it passes over the bridge, but the inner wrap layers are still there. Since the string is a little thinner, vibration is improved. Normally you only see the tapers on the low B and possibly E. I'm not sure quite what was going on with the Superwound company. It was always publicized as if it were an independent company, but it had the same address as Rotosound in England and James How, the designer of the Rotosound strings was associated with the company as well. In addition to roundwound PSD strings, they also had a very early pressurewound string called the "Linea" finish which were the nicest strings around. Pressurewounds start out as roundwounds and are squeezed in rollers to have a slightly smoother finish but maintain the sound quality of roundwounds (this sounds like the description of the Alembic strings in your followup post). The current Rotosound Solo Bass strings are this same Linea finish. | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wha! After finishing that long post, I wandered over the Rotosound site and it turns out that they *ARE* producing PSD strings again! These are the sets with the adjustable ball ends. I am SO buying some today! You all need to get a set too. When you try them out, you need to raise the bridge to accomodate the loss of all that string diameter. If these are anything like the old Superwounds, then you won't regret it! | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 617 Registered: 6-2002 |
Labella make some called Super Steps. But on an Alembic you have to have the tailpiece really close to the bridge. I had such an Alembic once and those strings were GREAT on that bass. I will check out the Roto's again too. Michael | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2316 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey ...good idea! ABout pressurewounds: I didn't heard that one yet! I heard "halfwounds", "groundwounds" and SIT talks about silencers. The "Silencers" from SIT are on my 4 string with the mandoline frets. Thanks for explaining this BTW! Paul TBO PS ...oh what were we talking about 98MK11736???? | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2006 |
OK, I’ve restrung it with the Elixirs adjusted the nut and bridge accordingly and the Elixirs’ still didn’t impress me. In fact I pulled them off and put the old Alembics back on. I’ll pick up some new Alembics tomorrow. I’ll try the DR’s that someone suggested too. Anyway I do notice that I get a high end buzz when I flip the Q switch down and adjust the knob above it clockwise, (sounds just like the old Fenders when you got too close to a Neon sign). This does give me a crisp sound that I like. It does go away when I move away from the amp. I had this problem with one of my Thumb basses and it turned out to be the bridge PU was bad. And I still don’t have it sounding the way I want but I’m getting there. I’ll try it tomorrow at church on my big rig. (A SWR 750X head, a 2x10 cab and 1x15 cab both SWR). Any ideas guys? ( It does have the ferret tube, I believe that’s what you call it) The feel of the bass is great. Fits me like a glove. The custom dimensions of the neck remind me of my old Jazz that I started on…mumble mummemm years ago. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3376 Registered: 5-2002 |
1) Here is the FAQ on the ferrite bead (recently edited). Check to see if the pickup leads are looped back through the bead. If you have enough slack, loop them through again. 2) Make sure all the knobs and switches are tightly secured to the body. The controls are grounded to the shielding paint when the nuts securing them to the body are tightened. If one of the nuts because loose, you can get some noise. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2006 |
Well I just tightened all the switches and knobs, a couple were loose, and I still have the noise. It's only in the high freq. though. If I trun the the knob above the Q switch counter clockwise the noise goes away, but then my sound is toooooo boomy and muffled sounding. I've played with the eq some and can get the buzz/hum mostly out especially if move away from the amp. It may be from me trying to counter the old dead strings with boosting the high 'z. I just can't believe its a bad PU because the bass has very little if any wear from playing. Neck is like new, frets have no wear. Looks like its been hiding in the closet for its 8 years. I'll know more tomorrow when I play it through my other rig and put some new Alembic or DR's on it. I check out your bands web site Dave, I like the sound your have on Lenny. What setup did you use on the recording? | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3377 Registered: 5-2002 |
Olie; I doubt it's the pickup, but if you want to investigate further, you can pull the pickups out and switch them around. If the noise moves with the pickup, it's the pickup; if the noise stays with the same filter, then it wasn't the pickup. Another thing to try is a different 1/4" cable. On the Lenny recording, that's the Maple S1 tuned down a half step (I don't think I had the Walnut bass when we made the recording). I don't remember the tone settings on the bass. The preamp is an F-1X; the reverb a TC Electronic M-One; and then an SF-2 and an Ashly SC-50 compressor/limiter. A Bag End D10X-D and an Acme Low B-2 were both run full range; the Acme was on the floor (carpet), the Bag End on top. A single mic was place a few feet away; I don't remember what kind of mic it was. The SF-2 was setup in the mono parallel mode with one side being low-pass and the other high-pass. The cut-off frequencies were probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 and 600Hz respectively; and there was probably little if any Q. The F-1X was probably 5-5-5 or very close to it, with no deep or bright boost. On the bass, I usually have the neck filter closed with the Q off, and the bridge filter open with the Q on high; but on that song I doubt that was the setting, but maybe something close to it. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2006 |
I played it today at church through my other rig and it sounded great. Still didn't get the other strings on it yet am about to do that. I still don't a full understanding of the controls yet. I believe (please let me know if I am right about these)the switch closest to the PU's is for bass (low z) (cut, flat and boost), the middle switch is for high z(cut, flat, boost. The front knob/pot is volume, the middle is pan, the rear switch and knob I don't have a full grasp of yet. I read they are,Q switch and filter but ?????? I'm sorry guys, give me the pointy cap and sit me on the stool! | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 357 Registered: 2-2005 |
Olie, The last control would be the filter. Here is the link to the Europa/Rogue controls FAQ. http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/16370.html?1107721317 Keith | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2006 |
I assume that filter means instead of boosting highs or lows it filters out certain freqs. And the Q switch I noitce that if I flip it down I tend to get more high z's. This site has been very helpful. The more I read in here the more I understand. I appreciate everyones help and patience with me. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2006 |
on another note I mentioned here about the Elixirs strings. I just realized they have what they call a "Nano" coating on them. Makes them feel great but they just don't have that brightness or growl. My ideal sound would be a cross between Chris Squire & John Patitucci...... I guess that would be a "Squatitucci" sound, or just a good fat bottom with a crisp clear high to give definition while maintaining a stong funky growl. Not too much to ask from a $25 dollar set of strings. Do I hear an Amen anyone. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3385 Registered: 5-2002 |
The filter control is a low pass filter; as you roll it back it lowers the point at which it passes low frequency signals and blocks high frequency signals. To quote Mica, "the range is from 350Hz-6KHz. Wherever you set the filter, only frequencies below that cutoff point are passed." The Q switch works in concert with the filter and provides an 8db boost at the cut off frequency you've set with the filter. When the switch is off you get a flat response up to the filter setting. Again to quote Mica, "the Q affects mainly the attack portion of the note". | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think I've got it! So if I were to set the filter contol full clockwise it will allow everything from 6KHz down pass through. And if I were to flip the Q switch down while the control as at this position it would boost the 6KHz 8db. This would explain the following, I was in facing my Eden combo about 2 feet away and was playing with the settings, I had turned the filter full clockwise and then flipped th Q switch down and lit up my speakers like blue LED's. Furtunately I did no damage to my amp. Thanks Dave your are the man! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3389 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yes, you've got it! If I remember correctly, Eden speaker cabs have a light bulb that acts as a fuse protecting the horn tweeter. If your speakers lit up, that was probably the light bulb that lit up; and I'm guessing you may need to replace it. I believe it's a standard automobile bulb and that you should be able to find a replacement at an auto parts store. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2006 |
You are right about the bulb/ fuse Dave. I already checked it, I must have flipped the Q switch back before it blew the bulb because the horn works fine. I have an idea about the high buzz/hum/ noise through the Eden combo that was not present with my SWR. I had forgotten the Eden has an attenuator on the rear that adjusts the tweeter. It can cut or boost the tweeter. I had it at 1/2 boost position. Tonight I am going to cut the tweeter completely, adjust the amp to get the best sound possible and then increase the tweeter just enough to give it a good crisp sound. I knew it just couldn’t be the Bass. The problem was with my lack of experience with Alembics. It’s like driving a horse drawn carriage all your life then jumping into a Ferrari; you’d better ask questions before you start the car. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2006 |
You are right about the bulb/ fuse Dave. I already checked and flipped the Q switch back before it blew the bulb. I have an idea about the high buzz/hum/ noise through the Eden combo that was not present with my SWR. I had forgotten the Eden has an attenuator on the rear that adjusts the tweeter. It can cut or boost the tweeter. I had it at 1/2 boost position. Tonight I am going to cut the tweeter completely, adjust the amp to get the best sound possible and then increase the tweeter just enough to give it a good crisp sound. I knew it just couldn’t be the Bass. The problem was with my lack of experience with Alembics. It’s like driving a horse drawn carriage all your life then jumping into a Ferrari; you’d better ask questions before you start the car. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2006 |
OK, now that I'm familiar with the controls I have the bass capital "T.H.U.M.P.I.N'" thumpin. I've the sound cleaned up real nice and clear. I will say one thing though. You really have to clean up your playing. I mean everything comes out. My finger style and even pizzicato is fine on it but my slapping technique....I have to play a lot softer than on my other basses. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2006 |
I finally got the new Alembic strings on it. What a difference they made. Great sustain, superb slap sound and every note rings true. I going to see if GC will let me trade the 3 sets of Elixir stings I have for something else. I am still going to try the DR and Rotosounds too. |
