| Author | Message | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2006 |
I just got a Series II and I'm psyched. The looks, the feel, and the sound all exceeded my expectations, which, considering the price, were pretty damn high! Since you can't fly on one wing, I have to upgrade my rig situation. I want to do an Alembic pre-amp, QSC PLX2 power amp of some sort, and a couple of Ampeg 4x10 cabs. I've never gone preamp/power amp route before, so I have some questions: 1) F1X or F2B with a Series II? 2) SF2? I think I want one. Where does it go in the chain? 3) Sometimes I use lots of effects. Does it make sense to keep the neck pickup dry and send the bridge pickup through the effects? How best to do that? I'm pretty much sold on QSC amp and Ampeg cabs cause A) my friend can get deals from both; and B) I love Ampeg, have an old SVT that I can't be bothered lugging around anymore. Any advice appreciated cheers Pete | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1604 Registered: 3-2004 |
One of us ought to write a checklist for this kind of question and stick it in the FAQ. Things like: What's the makeup of the band? For home use, live, or studio? Stereo or mono? Does weight matter? How many cabs do you want to carry? Do you need a DI? Are you a tweaker? What sort of tone are you looking for? One tone that is "you" or duplication of original tones in a covers environment? In answer to the couple questions you asked above: 1. Either, based on some of the answers to questions I asked above. 2. If you're a tweaker, yes. An SII already has a lot of tone control. Too much tweaking tends to be counterproductive if you already have "the tone" coming out of the bass. 3. That's an alternative and it gives you an on/off for effects at your fingertips - simply switch pickups. Could be odd if you run stereo depending on cab positions. Another alternative is a crossover to send only higher frequencies to effects. Each will sound different. Splitting the pickups will obviously require some stereo signal handling, though you could amplify in stereo or mono. Choice of effects matters too. Some are better between the bass and pre (usually pedals) while others are better in a loop (many rack units). Sorry - I'm in a hurry at the moment. Will check in again later and see how you're doing on this. -bob | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2006 |
Hey Bob, thanks for posting. I looked around a bit, but there's so many threads that I gave up looking for the "Series II rig" stuff. Makeup of band: varies, usually 1 or 2 guitars, drums, singer, maybe a horn. SOmetimes I do electronic experimental stuff, loops and weirdness. Live and home studio use. Stereo. I've been running the DS5R two ouptuts into my Saffire or B-15, sounds much bigger in stereo mode. Weight matters, flights of steps. QSC stuff is light. I will deal with 2 cabs max. Apt. room issues, stairs... I tweak depending on the circumstance. In a rock setting, I just tend to play. In a funk or electronic deal, I mess around more. I generally want a brutal, huge tone. I'm not into the highs so much, more big mids with plenty of bottom. I have no specific tone. I've been using various basses setup differently to get what I want, like flatwounds with a piece of foam under the strings or lighter strings/active electronics for slap, or just your basic Jazz/Rotosound/SVT deal. I don't have any rackmount effects. I use Electroharmonix Micro Synth, Mooger Fooger, Q-Tron, Bass Wah, Analog Delay, Digital Delay, generally. When I use effects I notice the bottom end can fall out. If possible or practical I'd like to keep the neck PU dry to keep the fatness without getting volume drops from switching off the bridge PU. Since I use foot pedals there's no real need to activate/deactivate an effect line by turning on/off a PU. Thanks for your help! cheers Pete | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5054 Registered: 5-2002 |
I use the F-2B. The F-1X has a "cleaner" tone; the F-2B has more of a "tube" tone. I run the neck pickup into one channel and the bridge pickup into the other channel. That way I can individually EQ each pickup. For me, it makes a difference. I then come mono out of the preamp. Based on your "brutal" description, my guess would be that the tone of the F-2B would be better suited than the F-1X. Since you want to keep the neck pickup dry, my guess would be that you would run the neck pickup from the DS-5 to one channel of the F-2B. Then the bridge pickup from the DS-5 to your chain of pedals, and from there to the second channel of the F-2B. Then I would go mono out to the SF-2, which I run in parallel mono mode, and from there to the PLX. As to whether it makes sense to keep the neck pickup dry, I have no idea; I've never tried it. But it's an interesting idea. | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1527 Registered: 4-2004 |
check out the acme cabs www.acmebass.com i just ordered the lowb-2 w qsc 1602 and fx-1 del in 2-3 weeks on the cab | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2006 |
For some reason I didn't see these responses until today. Anyway, thanks for the advice! Well, since I didn't see the response I just ordered an F1X. We'll see how that works out. I may have overstated things when I said "brutal". I play funk and hard rock, some motown stuff, not headbanging death metal. I can unload it and pick up an F2B if need be, or get another F1X I suppose if I really have to split the signal. Why not spend as much money as possible? I'm going to get some sort of QSC plx2 amp. My friend is pushing the 3602, which has huge power. I'm not playing the Garden any time soon, so that may be over doing it. I'm looking at Acme cabs, trying to figure out what to do there. Maybe a 2x10 and a 4x10, or two 4x10s or two 2x10s. I've got flights of stairs to deal with... Thanks for the help! Pete | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1639 Registered: 3-2004 |
The F-1X is great for funk and motown, but it won't do stereo or give you a lot of tubiness. Here's a thought: Neck pickup -> F-1X -> QSC channel A -> Schroeder 1212L Bridge pickup -> PodXT Live -> QSC channel B --> Schroeder 1210L The F-1X will give you tight full-range from the neck pickup and the PodXT will let you tailor your tone and a little effect as needed for your various styles. I am partial to the Schroeder cabs and they weigh about 35 pounds a piece in very movable package. Either half of the rig should also be plenty for smaller gigs or rehearsals. I am talking to friends at Bose to try to get a deal on a PackLite power amp for the practice space so I don't have to bring or run the QSC when 250 watts is more than plenty to do the job. For power, I recently got a 2402 and it is way more power than I need for bar gigs and even decent sized outdoor shows. Something between a 1602 and a 2502 should be plenty for most stereo bass setups. I ran one side of the power amp into my Schroeder 21012L with the dial short of a third of the way up for my last bar gig. Good luck! -Bob | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5140 Registered: 5-2002 |
Every once in a while I think about running the neck pickup to the F-1X and the bridge pickup to the F-2B. I guess I would then join the outputs with a Y cable and go mono to the rest of the chain. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2006 |
The Pod XT is an interesting option. I got a Bass Pod years ago, wouldn't go anywhere without it for awhile, but I'm sure it's outdated now. I found it useful when going direct into ProTools and stuff. But with a new rig maybe I should pickup the F-2B and have done with. The Schroeders also look interesting, never heard of them before. I like the light weight, though they are pricey. They seem to give quite a bit of bang for the buck and there's actually a place here in the City where I can try them, which is helpful. Looks like it's time to sell the Ducati. So for the stereo setup, do you place one speaker on each side of the stage? | ||
| jbybj
Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 83 Registered: 6-2006 |
So for the stereo setup, do you place one speaker on each side of the stage? If your main purpose is to keep a clean low end separate from a whacked effect, then I wouldn't separate your speakers like true stereo, but stack them. When I was in college, (late 70's) I played my jazz bass through a little muff fuzz and a small stone phase shifter, and was very unhappy with the loss of low end. I split the pu's and put one each out a stereo jack, keeping the neck pu clean, and sending the bridge to the effects, feeding two separate amps. It was awesome, big bottom and freaky at the same time. Currently, (no stereo basses!) I acheive a similar result with the Radial ABY switcher, one output stays clean, the other feeds my pedal board. Without the clean channel I feel like my bass has been neutered. Peace, JBY | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1643 Registered: 3-2004 |
I wouldn't in this case, Pete. That kind of "stereo" is to create an image where the sound coming from each side is slightly different. Often it is accomplished by using delays and chorus effects that differ between the sides. In the Series bass case, what it seems you're really after is the ability to process the signal from each pickup individually from beginning to end. That doesn't require that you separate the cabinets. Also, the bass source would then change location when you adjust the pickup selector. That isn't to say that you couldn't set up that way, and there's never anything wrong with experimenting when you have the opportunity. As usual, much depends on what sound you're trying to create and how you're going to use the instrument. As far as Schroeders go, yeah, try one if you can. Even better, see if you can take a demo to a gig or rehearsal to see how well they work in the band situation. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2006 |
Yeah, it didn't really seem to make much sense separating the speakers like that. I like the trying out the demo idea for the Schroeders. Once I get my amp situation sorted out, I'll see what I can do. Should have just gotten an F2B I think, but I guess I can get one and pair it up with the F1X and be totally self indulgent and broke! | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 573 Registered: 3-2004 |
Be totally self indulgent in the gear zone. It aint like crack bruddah! I'm currently running a epi ul212, t310, el whappo jr and low b4. f1x,sf2, plx3402 and genz benz gbe1200. Huge does not even describe it. Keep trying out gear and have fun with it. Life is too short to miss out on good clean power happiness. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead! Hope you find your dream rig. (If you do want an Acme b4 mine is available for sale.) | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2006 |
I guess it's silly to start worrying about being self indulgent after I've had a Series II made for me! I think I'll pick up the F2B and run like this Neck pickup -> F-1X -> QSC channel A -> Schroeder 1212L Bridge pickup -> F2B -> QSC channel B --> Schroeder 1210L Provided of course I like the Schroders. At 45 pounds or so and 800 watts, they'd really have to sound like crap for me not to get them. | ||
| benson_murrensun
New Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 |
Flaxattack mentioned the ACME cabinets. I bought one and loved it so much that I bought a second. These things are outstanding! Very hi-fi, with lots of bottom, a 3-way cabinet so the woofers can deal with only the low frequencies. They are light and competitively priced. Keep in mind that you need lots of amp power to make them sound good. My rig is an Avalon U5 into a QSC RMX2450 into the 2 Acme cabs. My Alembic sounds so good that I can switch the Avalon's tone circuit off, so I use no EQ other than what's on the bass itself. | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 516 Registered: 1-2003 |
In my experience the Acmes sound good at all volume levels - so they don't need a lot of power to sound good. They are, however, relatively inefficient so they do need a bit of power to sound loud. | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm running two Ampeg BXT series cabs (4X10 and 1X15) with my F1-X and SF-2. My poweramp is a QSC PLX 1804, which has plenty of headroom for the cabs I use, and is more than loud enough for me. In any event, you can't go wrong with an SF-2 in the signal chain regardless of what pre you use, poweramp, etc. To me, an SF-2 makes any bass sound better. It does wonders for non-Alembics in my experience. My two cents, Alan | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1680 Registered: 3-2004 |
It seems that a quality Fender-tone-stack tube preamp and a QSC power amp of 1800+ are common among several of us. These components give you very natural tone shaping and plenty of clean power and headroom. That leaves speaker cabs as the place where we really diverge. There are enough differences there in size, tone and portability to give us all what we need. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks for all the responses! I'm gonna give this a whirl: Neck pickup -> F-1X -> QSC 1804 channel A -> Schroeder 1212R Bridge pickup -> F2B -> QSC 1804 channel B --> Schroeder 1210R I was curious about the Acmes but I couldn't find any to try. The Schroeders I tried knocked stuff off of shelves in the store, so we'll see how that works with the setup. They also win because I can handle carrying 50 lbs up 4 flights of stairs, but 80 is pushing it. Jorg Schroeder is also very hands on, so that's nice. I may eventually get an SF2 but I think I've spent enough money for now. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1681 Registered: 3-2004 |
Pete, I'll tell you that the L versions of the Schroeders sound a little cleaner and tighter. The R versions sound a little rounder to my ears. If you're looking for rock and roll, the R is great. The L just does a little better with definition. | ||
| rockbassist
Intermediate Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 105 Registered: 8-2005 |
A few years ago, I used Ampeg for a short time because I had a deal with them. I dropped the deal because I always had trouble hearing myself no matter how much I turned up the volume and I didn't like the tone. I switched to Gallien Krueger and have been pretty happy. Their service has been great but I am still missing something in my tone. I have been considering switching to Eden but I recently came across some videos of my old band that were shot in a club in the early 1980's. I was playing a 1978 Fender Jazz through a 1970 SVT head with an Ampeg 4 x 10. I couldn't believe how great my tone was. Now I'm wondering how my Alembic would sound through that old rig. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2006 |
I got the Schroeders, the regulars, sound good and very portable. I didn't like having one pre-amp per P/U, so I'm keeping the F2B and selling the F1X. I suppose I will shoot for the SF2 after that works itself out. Power amp is the QSC 1804, sounds great. I think I may also dig out my old SVT and get it re-tubed and re-capped (by my buddy, save money)and leave it at a friends house. I love that amp but it's too hard to drag around. With the F2B, how do you guys run a line to the soundman? Last guy was baffled. | ||
| crgaston
Senior Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 420 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm running the neck p/u on channel 1, the bridge p/u on channel two, then out the mono output, into a DI -> SF2 -> PLX2402. That way I get individual level and eq for each pickup, but the sound guy only has to deal with one line. Make sure it's one that's got some decent padding capabilities on it, as that signal is pretty hot. I use the input gain control of the SF2 to moderate the signal some before sending it to my power amp. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2006 |
What kind of DI do you like? Just a regular old basic DI, Sans Amp Bass Driver, Ampeg SVT DI, stereo DI like the StereoLine? I guess you're talking about an active vs. passive DI? Does the SF2 have two outputs or do you run that into just one channel of the PLX2402? thanks | ||
| crgaston
Senior Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 421 Registered: 11-2005 |
So far I've used an Whirlwind IMP2 and a Behringer. They've both worked fine, but I liked the IMP2 better because it's smaller. Whirlwind makes a Jensen passive DI box that I might try. I'm also considering having a Jensen transformer installed in my DS5R, with in and out jacks on the rear and an XLR on the front, just so everything is self-contained. The SF2 can be run mono or stereo. I'm running it mono, so it's more of a system eq. The 2402 has a parallel input mode, which means it can take one signal from the channel 1 input and send it to both channels of the amp. One side runs 1 or 2 Eden 12's, and the other runs 1 or 2 Bergantino 12's, depending on the size rig I need. That's one of the reasons I haven't tried one of the new 1804's...they don't have the parallel input feature (or the clip limiting, or the hipass filters). I could just make a cable, though. Hosa (among others) makes a Y-cable that would work, too, if you'd rather just buy one. They're less than 10 bucks. You need a 1/4" mono male to 2 1/4" mono males. That way you can use both cabinets all the time instead of dedicating one to each pickup. Should give you substantially more headroom if you ever solo a pickup. If you run them both pretty close to full all the time, it won't make nearly as much difference. Try this: Neck to channel 1 of F2B Bridge to channel 2 of F2B Mono out to DI Single end of Y cable out of DI Each of the other ends into it's own channel of the amp. If you're not using a DI, you can just use the Y cable to go from the mono F2B out into each channel of the 1804. Also, each side of the amp will still get it's own speaker, but since each side is also getting the same signal, they'll have the same output regardless of your pickup volume settings. Hope this helps, Charles | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5489 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have an ART DI to go to the board as the last thing in my chain before the ELF. We usually play small venues, so I've only used it once, at an outdoor gig earlier this summer. The soundperson seemed happy with the signal. | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 156 Registered: 11-2003 |
Assuming you have the power supply,how about this, run each pickup into seperate F2B channels come out in stereo to the two amp channels,to the two speakers(a strereo rig) Use the 1/4" jack directly from the bass into a active DI box. In doing this way, on large venues, your rig becomes a stereo stage monitor giving you complete control over your tone while still being at the mercy of the sound man for the mains.Some A's are stereo output on the 1/4' others are mono, So depending onthe setup you may need two DI's. Can anybody comment on whether or not the pickup loading will change with this suggestion? Good luck,God bless. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1626 Registered: 6-2002 |
Not sure if it's the low-impedance nature of the pickups, the presence of pre-amps, or both, but as far as I know the whole problem of pickup loading is non-existent with active electronics. | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2003 |
Assuming you have the power supply, come out of that and into your F2B in stereo, out of that and into your power amps two channels, into your separate speakers, In other words run everything in stereo. Since the F2B no effects loops or DI, use the 1/4" output jack on the bass into an active DI. In this way your rig will act as a stereo stage monitor giving you complete control over your sound. Your still at the mercy of the soundman so buy him a beer or two, Some Series have a mono 1/4" some stereo so you may need two DI's for stereo in the mains. There may be pickup loading problems so perhaps those more knowledgable can answer that for you. Good luck and God Bless,B. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1401 Registered: 10-2002 |
Does the jack output still work if the 5 pin plug is used on a series bass? Graeme | ||
| kevin_k
Intermediate Member Username: kevin_k Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2003 |
If you can, why not go with 2 F-1X? Not sure if that has been suggested. One for the neck pu & one for the bridge pu. (Message edited by kevin_k on October 05, 2007) | ||
| rockbassist
Intermediate Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 128 Registered: 8-2005 |
About 25 years ago, I had an early 70's era SVT that I loved. 5 years ago, I had a deal with Ampeg and to be honest, I hated the sound. I tried 4x10's, 1x15's, 8x10's pretty much every combination of cab you can imagine with the SVT 4Pro head and the SVT Classic head. Both heads seemed under powered compared to their ratings. I usually had to turn the volume up at least 3/4 in order to hear myself with the band. The cabs didn't project well and I could never get the tone that I wanted. I have since switched to GK and have never had the volume past 1/3. My tone is better, much more clarity and punch. | ||
| petehnek
Junior Username: petehnek Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2006 |
I guess horses for courses. I've tried all sorts of setups and nothing to me beats my old SVT head. It's just huge sounding, breaks up at around 10 or 11 o'clock with the right amount of grit. My current setup is too clean, not badass enough. I got my SVT up and running after it being out of commission for awhile and now my main Fender Jazz going through my SVT/Ampeg 4x10 is blowing away my Alembic Series II/fancy rig. I think the Alembic will sound awesome through the SVT once I get the pots at the right output level | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 514 Registered: 11-2005 |
here it is neck pick up-F1-X bi-amped bridge pick up-F1-X bi amped This would require four cabs and two power amps but DAMN!!!!!! |
