| Author | Message | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2008 |
Some time ago I joined my current Band. We plaied in night clubs and I started to use my - then - recent acquired 6 string Washburn Bass. I never considered using my precious Alembic as it was a tiny Gig (and I really wanted to get used to the 6 string bass possibilities). It quickly grew and we started to play more nights, opening to major acts and recording a couple of CDs, but I was unhappy with this Gig. My fellow band mates always complained on everything I did. They seemed to dislike any line I tried, nothing was enough groovy or punchy. I thought it was because they hate the idea of a 6 string bass (one time the percussionist said if I wanted to do Chords I should play Guitar!). So I simplified all my lines and stopped the chord work I was trying, but they kept complaining... One week I had to leave my Washburn at the repair shop and took the Rogue to the Gigs and - guess what? They all got crazy saying how I was really great that night. Suddenly I was THE Cat. They asked me why I didn't tried these inventive groovy Lines before and I just could say that I was doing these same lines for months. They simply were complaining without even having listened me good! The fact is (despite their narrow mind and rudeness) that using my Alembic enabled me to get heard. Alembic's open and clear tone helped me to be finally understood (and be fairlly appreciated). Thanks Alembic! I knew my value, but you helped me to show it to them too. Can you believe it???? | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2008 |
Incredible is that I'm doing all the stuffs they always complained about (including all the Chords and Double Stops) and they're loving it. Holly Jackson! If I knew that 2 strings more could twist perceptions like this, I would never think about using 6 of them. Next time I'll try to use a 2 string bass... *[joking] | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2017 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mario. I love the tunes on your website. Were they recorded with the rogue? I'm also impressed with the way you have a movie of the band as the website 'wallpaper'. I'll have to have words with the Big Tuna web master and try to get that look on ours. graeme. p.s. Thanks for your comments on my rogue thread in the showcase. When will we see photos of yours? | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 594 Registered: 8-2005 |
Graeme Your Rogue is just amazing!! Can't wait to get my hands on her again!! G | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2008 |
Thanks Jacko, I'll ask our web master how he did it. I'll also send some photos to the Showcase... Ops, you can see mine Rogue on the History Request. Its serial number (and thread name) is "Rogue 97Q10502 USA". | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 647 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well I may get a few enemies here but I have never seen the need for multi string basses, Messrs Wooton, Miller, Clarke, Pastorius, King and many others have got away quite well with four strings and played chords, double stops etc. Sometimes less is more... | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2025 Registered: 10-2002 |
Each to their own Terry. I love my 5 strings and will probably never go back to a 4. There are plenty 'famous' players using 5's and 6's too and for the most part all the bass players I've seen interviews with (carol kaye excepted) are happy to live and let live. It all boils down to personal preference. However, you've mentioned Victor above. When he needs to, he uses a joe compito 5 string fretless and on the Master of all trades DVD (as well as the jazz legends live in montreux dvd), Marcus plays a very tasteful looking 5 string fretless. Graeme | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2026 Registered: 10-2002 |
took a while navigating Marcus' website but here's a nice pic of his fretless...  Graeme (Message edited by jacko on December 10, 2008) | ||
| jbybj
Intermediate Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2006 |
"Well I may get a few enemies here but I have never seen the need for multi string basses" I have always felt my one string bass was just too limited for my expansive musical expression, I need at least two, strings that is....... JBY | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I have always felt my one string bass was just too limited for my expansive musical expression" You just need to pull the broomstick harder against the washtub, James. Peter | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2008 |
First of all, not even the string bass started with 4 strings. They just got frequently made with 4 (AND 5) strings after XIXth century. So, this is simply a matter of technological achievement summed up to some musician's desire to expand his voice range. If you listen to lower pitchs in your head you shouldn't be limited to the low E, just this. Altough, despite my claims to fellow band mates that 6 strings are simply a "broader bass", I have to addmit the Instrument has some unique features. Seems that the 6 string is somehow more related to Acoustic Guitar. It's not just the extended range, the Instrument takes you to a more vertical way of thinking with all those strings. The 6 strings begs you to approachs it with an eye on the Bass, shure, but the other on the classical guitar. I know this is just a single way to view it (not original and not for everyone's taste), but I really want to explore it this way. (As a brazilian) I started to study Villa-Lobos classical guitar stuff and I'm trying to apply it to the Bass. I believe you can think about it as an entirely new Instrument, made to express other needs. It just has to create its own space, inviting musicians to explore its singularities and justify its use, as happen to the Eletric when it was born. Back then, people complained about it saying the Instrument was more of a Guitar. Yeah, may be... But what is the problem? Why an new Instrument should be taken as a threat? I always tought the Bass as a function in Music. Althought it will affect your phrasing, it really doesn't matter if is a Tuba or an Organ's Pedal (or a Bass) you'll use to embelish the lower portion of a Chord. Witch one you'll pick is a matter of affection. I also like more the 4 string, but I don't think it really makes all things the 6 does. If the Eletric deserves a space by its own, I don't know how accepting the 6 should be a problem. (Message edited by Mario Farufyno on December 12, 2008) | ||
| pocket8
Junior Username: pocket8 Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2008 |
I agree with Mario: From Jamerson to Jauqo III-X, from old hands to neophytes, there is something that compelled many of us not to solely rely upon and at times to completely avoid the higher registers to play music, instead using something that is not pure melody, pure harmony, or pure percussion, but is universally appealing and intuitive. In my opinion that is the groove and the pocket, where our contribution can be represented by the F-clef. How far above and below you go low D is personal taste, but I think in the low end of the sound spectrum, we are equally capable of taking the spotlight or blending into the backline, but with our other half of the rhythm section, we are always center-stage in the aural center of the audience's subconscious whether they (or their collective frontal lobe) realize it or not. Or so I think! | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2004 |
Okay, multi strings do have a role in our craft but and this is a big but..those famous bass players use them because they CAN because we like to see them play fantastic phrases, licks and grooves. For the majority of us in bands that play covers to entertain the general public..soloing off 'Donna Lee' at 280bpm in the middle of some pop song is going to get some strange looks from the band and maybe 'don't turn up at the next gig thank you' So maybe it is 'horses for courses', I know someone who plays his fender p bass in a motown band and a rock band but plays his Yamaha TRB 6 in his jazz unit. | ||
| benson_murrensun
Member Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2007 |
I usually use a four-string, but I got into using a fiver when I play with my piano-playing buddy with the over-active left hand, so I can get above or below what he is doing on bass. Sometimes I use the fiver when I play Dead covers and need "the bomb." Other times, I stick to the four. "Horses for courses," indeed. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1298 Registered: 6-2002 |
My personal preference is the 4 string bass, however most gigs I get to do on bass session gigs require a low b-string so when those gigs come up I have to grab the 5 stringer. But when I do gigs where I choose the set, I tend to go with tracks where I can play my 4 stringer exclusively. | ||
| oujeebass
Intermediate Member Username: oujeebass Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2002 |
I do remember Stanley Clarke saying he was adverse to anything but 4 strings. I have always thought that a low B was a bit low, and also nauseating at high volume. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 41 Registered: 9-2008 |
I don't think any serious musician could avoid going below 41Hz as some frequencies should be forbidden. I simply love Stevie Wonder's bass lines, and they are mostly writen in E flat... Stanley must have said that HE doesn't feel good using a 5th string (because he is SO used to play on 4 and shurely doesn't want to re-learn how to play - since the low B is hard to keep mutted, we must to change right hand position). He may also (as many of us) feel that the low B rarely sounds tight and clean as we wish, and most tradicional Cabinets simply can't handle efficiently frequencies that low. But I really doubt that he would tell Marcus Miller - or Anthony Jackson - that they shouldn't play the 5th string because it is "wrong", "nauseating" or something worst. I also don't think he could deny his keyboardist going down there (by the way, I'm pretty shure he uses frequencies below 41Hz in his arrangements - not on Bass, but he certainly uses it). If you agree with me on this, means that you agree avoiding using more than 4 strings is just a matter of taste. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2008 |
Wade, I can't imagine you vomiting just because heard an organist using his bass pedals (that can go to a low A!)... (;-P) | ||
| oujeebass
Intermediate Member Username: oujeebass Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ha, Ha, The nausea isn't a matter of taste. It would be a physical reaction. I actually like the facility that a low B provides. I am sure Stanley was speaking in the terms of the time in which more and more low Bs were flopping when he said that. The frequency is only half the equation. The waveform is the other. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2008 |
Nauseating isn't the wavelenght... In fact, I'm shure that is some players that could makes Stanley sick! (like myself... Ha, Ha, Ha) | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 662 Registered: 11-2004 |
What about an octave pedal or dropping the E to D (as per Hipshot). I transposed 'I Wish' to F# for that reason, Stevie does like his E flat keys. | ||
| bassman68
Member Username: bassman68 Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2007 |
Stevie Wonder, Jackson 5/Michael jackson etc all seem to favour E flat, I've sometimes wondered if it had to do with the brass sections & B flat horns? | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2008 |
I'm pretty shure this is the main reason for choosing so odd keys for the rest of us that play a instrument tuned in C. (Message edited by mario farufyno on December 29, 2008) | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1142 Registered: 12-2004 |
I might offer an alternate explanation: Many of the bands listed got their start in church, and a lot of gospel songs are in "flat keys" (F / Bb / Eb / Ab) (aka 1 flat/2/3/4 flats). So much so, that I've met a bunch of organists/ pianists in church that couldn't play in D at all. I go to a Pentecostal church, maybe it's different elsewhere. | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 977 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've heard that the much of life on Earth is in Dflat (songs of whales for instance). see Common Ground by Paul Winter Consort, from the mid 70's Mike | ||
| lmiwa
Intermediate Member Username: lmiwa Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2008 |
Yes, most Gospel music (no matter the denomination) is played in flats. And most players will play songs written in sharps down a half step in the equivalent flat key (e.g. D is played in Db). Since I play almost exclusively in such situations, I long ago got used to tuning my basses 1/2 step down. Open strings thus become Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb which works out very nicely for playing exclusively in flats! | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 48 Registered: 9-2008 |
Wow, that's deep Mike! I'll put my Humpback Whale record on CD player right now... | ||
| mario_farufyno
Junior Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 49 Registered: 9-2008 |
Guys, this doesn't exactly explain why someone chooses Flat keys. I still think the reason to pick flat keys on church is the use of Brass Sections on gospel music, doesn't it? Is this way because God (as whales) "talks" flat? Or is this a "usage" to facilitate writing to Horns? Because I've just met people who favored using Flat Keys in Bands that ostensively used Horn Sections (even if they just used that way in the past)... | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1964 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi guys, I ask ask my cousin (our pianist at our church)this very question once, why she most of her music in Bb or Eb. She said it was easier to play on piano than say maybe E, A or B. I check out your website Mario, very nice and I like the music a lot. OO | ||
| mario_farufyno
Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2008 |
Oh, thanks Olie. You're kind... You're right, certain "digiting paterns" makes playing easier, specially to keys and horns. And seems that if it is good for them, it'll prevail. It is a matter of who is easier to change. One time I complained about that because it made harder to us on Strings to play, but when I saw Sax Player's difficult to do it fast and clean, I decided to change myself. Nowadays, I also tend to avoid using open strings to no get used to do it in ways that will makes me difficult to change keys if needed. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2046 Registered: 10-2002 |
There's a nice photo of Paul McCartney using a 5 string Wal in Christopher Sandford's Biography. From what i've read, it was a present from Linda and he used it extensively for recording and touring during the 90's. Now, if a 5 is good enough for one of the worlds greatest musicians, it must surely be good enough for me ;-) Graeme. | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 625 Registered: 8-2005 |
Great stuff Mario!!! I used to have a Washburn 6 like your one. It was a cherry red colour which I bought in Paris when I lived there George |
