| Author | Message | ||
| phobucket
New Username: phobucket Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2010 |
I want to rip them out and install a passive PJ setup. I know this will take a little bit work with the chisel ;) Actually, I'm working on restoring my 76 Series 1, and one of the areas that needs the most cosmetic work is the pickups. A previous owner attempted to pry out the humcanceller and ended up digging chunks out of the cover. I am planning on making thin ebony veneers to cover the damage. So I've heard references to the electronics being modular and that the wires don't need to be snipped. Has anybody here removed their electronics before? Have any tips? Mica mentioned using a mallet to pound out the humcancellor from behind...yikes! | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2457 Registered: 6-2002 |
Careful with that axe, Eugene (as Pink Floyd used to say). I think a rubber mallet would be your weapon of choice for getting the humcanceller out. (And I've always assumed it would be striking against the back of the instrument.) On older Series instruments, different connectors may be used, so perhaps best if you could post some snapshots of the wiring. (Message edited by adriaan on April 09, 2010) | ||
| phobucket
Junior Username: phobucket Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2010 |
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat? Yes..I would assume rubber mallet on the backside, maybe protected by towel and book to even the blow across the back. Good idea on the pics. Haven't opened the bass up yet, but I'll try and post them in the next week or so. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 582 Registered: 5-2002 |
I would call the factory and talk to someone there. I know it can be done (my '78 bass was refinished and thus had all the pickups removed), but I bet there's a simpler way that doesn't require the application of so much force. The electronics back then weren't quite so modular, but each pickup did terminate in a sleeve connector that makes it pretty easy to remove. It should be pretty obvious when you open it up. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 6695 Registered: 6-2000 |
It's not always possible to save the humcanceller. As a 1976 bass, we hadn't settled on the adhesive so there could be anything under there. The strike is actually directly on the front of the huncanceller, directly to it. If it works, it works. If it doesn't you'll have to remove it without care for its future with something aggressive, like a router. Maybe in your case you can just buildup the space around the pickup with it in place, and put an Ebony veneer over the whole thing, pickup and all. Just a thought! | ||
| phobucket
Junior Username: phobucket Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2010 |
Thanks for the info. That actually gives me an idea to build a ramp between the pickups a la Gary Willis. The humcanceller is not sensing the strings as much as the other pickups, right? (Message edited by phobucket on April 10, 2010) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 831 Registered: 5-2009 |
@ phobucket Please excuse me if this inquiry seems out of line, have you considered restoring this instrument to original functional and cosmetic condition? In your opinion what are the pros and cons of restoring this Alembic Series 1 to original condition ? I am very interested in your response . Sonic Regards ! | ||
| phobucket
Junior Username: phobucket Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2010 |
@sonicus Great question. This instrument has had a prior repair at the neck/headstock joint. According to the prior owner, the repair was prior to 2002 and is very stable, but it is not so pretty. If I were only concerned about sound, I'd leave it as is except for maybe a fret job. That said, I think there are some things I could do to make it prettier for not much money (clean up the hardware, prettify the humcanceller, replace the 12th fret inlay). On the other hand, it could be completely restored to like new condition. It would be beautiful, but I don't think it would sound any better. Also, then I'd have to worry about bumps and bruises more than I do now. Not to mention I'd be without the instrument for a while (my only Alembic) and there is the added cost of a total restoration, although I am sure it would increase the value of the instrument. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 833 Registered: 5-2009 |
Besides the humcanceller cosmetic issue what else is wrong with the electronics and pickups ? One of the very important attributes of the Alembic Bass that makes it TRUELY an Alembic are the Alembic electronics and pickups . I am posting this in your best interest in mind. How will the Alembic Bass feel with out it's Alembic electronics and pickups ? OH NO ! lol_________ As always _ Sonic Regards ! | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1166 Registered: 11-2004 |
Wolf- I don't think he's planning on replacing the Series I electronics, from what I understand, he's just trying to find a way to pretty up some of the damage a previous owner did to the bass. My understanding is that he just wants to create a veneer to cover the damaged Alembic pickup/humcanceller casing. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 583 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't get the idea from phobucket that the idea is to replace the Alembic electronics with third party gear, but to be able to remove them so that they can be restored to a better cosmetic condition. I think the first sentence of his first post was in jest, although that doesn't always come across on the net. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 584 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh yeah, one more thing. Any pictures? (Message edited by edwin on April 10, 2010) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 834 Registered: 5-2009 |
As always , my intentions are positive , please excuse any misunderstanding that has been perceived. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 585 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know, you might have missed an opportunity to get some Series electronics cheap! Heck, I'd even throw in the P and J pickups and the chisel! :-) | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1035 Registered: 6-2002 |
Spooky...Toby and Edwin posted very similar posts at the same time. ...yes...pictures would be swell ! Phobucket, to your previous question,as I understand it, the humcanceller picks up the environmental noise and doesn't have to be in close proximity to the strings like the pickups. You can see the humcanceller in #12 is hidden in the upper part of the control cavity:  | ||
| garth4664
Intermediate Member Username: garth4664 Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hello Pho, Elwood is right, the hum canceller is an electric coil but unlike pickups does not contain a magnet, it is not sensing the string vibration. Still they look really cool, and I'd personally stick with the veneer idea. Does anyone know where the coil usually sits in a humcanceller? could you take a mm off the top to make the veneer flush with the bass? just a thought... | ||
| phobucket
Junior Username: phobucket Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2010 |
Yes. I was kidding about the PJ setup. Based on the thickness of the gaugemarks, there appears to be room to take a little off the top.  Now to derail my own thread... @elwood I knew Alembic electronics were ahead of there time, but a cell phone?! That's really something. | ||
| keith_h
Moderator Username: keith_h Post Number: 1593 Registered: 2-2005 |
That is Keavin's (serialnumber12) tracking device you see in the body cavity. If I remember correctly he put in the picture when we were having a discussion about the best way to track and recover stolen Alembics. Keith | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 296 Registered: 9-2004 |
Sometimes those humcancelers can be really glued in there. I have custom bent a long screwdriver that will go in from the pickup lead hole via the backplate opening (after removing the electronic guts) and you can then apply some force and leverage to try to lever it out. However, if that does not work pretty quickly, you are better off giving up doing it that way. Good luck, Dave | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 408 Registered: 5-2002 |
What's going on with Series electronics is pretty unusual - there have only been a handful of other guitars that use this sort of noise reduction system (Fender Strat Elite and the original Paul Reed Smith Bass both from the 80s as far as I know). A magnetic pickup is composed of a coil of wire sitting in a magnetic field. The pickup is positioned so the strings are in the magnetic field as well. When a string containing iron moves it disturbs the magnetic field of the pickup, which induces an electric signal in the coil. That tiny signal is the sound of your string vibrating which you can amplify. The coil not only responds to magnetic disturbances from the strings, but will pick up electromagnetic interference (EMI) as well. This is where hum and buzz come from. Single coil pickups are very sensitive to EMI. This led to the development of many kinds of dual-coil pickups to try to fix the problem. A clever guy figured out that with two matched pickups, you can get rid of the hum by connecting the second pickup backwards. The EMI created the same buzz in each pickup, but when you connect them out of phase, the buzz is cancelled. That's great, but the sound from the strings is also out of phase, which means very little bass and a tinny sound. But an even more clever guy noticed that if you flipped the magnets in the pickup over AND wired the pickup backwards, then you could cancel the EM noise, but have the signal from the motion of the strings still in phase. Now that's really good! This is how a Jazz Bass works or the in-between sounds on a Strat are quiet. A Gibson-style humbucker puts two of these coils right next to each other for the same effect. But things are not perfect. The reversed polarity /reverse wind coil combo kills noise, but since each of the coils hears the string in a slightly different position, there's some cancellation of sound as well. This cancellation is why humbuckers don't sound as bright as single coil pickups. Well, people are pretty darn clever, and somebody else figured out that if you wired two coils out of phase and didn't put any magnet in one of the coils, it wouldn't hear the string vibration but would still get rid of the noise - a quiet single coil with traditional single coil sound. This is what a Series bass humcancelling dummy pickup is - it's the coil with no magnet and is performing the noise reduction for both the pickups. Theoretically, are almost perfect now, but one problem you now have is that you have to wind a coil that's precisely matched to the working pickup, but it can't pick up the instrument's sound! This is expensive in the case of the Series bass because there are active electronics. So you're seeing a great example of "cost is no object" perfectionism in the Series basses, which have an extra route for a dedicated dummy coil which even includes it's own dedicated preamp - what other bass has an active circuit which is there only to remove noise! In the case of a Series bass, the two pickups and canceller are carefully wound as a matched set to maximize noise reduction, and the electronics are tweaked to minimize noise without impacting sound (this is the low-noise mod that Ron does personally on the Series basses). As anybody with a Strat or Tele will tell you, EM noise is often directional - you turn your body and the amount of buzz will change. So, you really want the humcanceller to be in the same orientation as the pickups, hence the Series humcanceller position between the pickups. But because the canceller doesn't need to be near the strings, you can put it else where in the body and it should work. The old PRS basses had three regular pickups plus a dummy coil that was exposed on the back of the bass; the Fender Elite had a fourth coil under the pickguard. The Series design is non-compromised and expensive. One other extremely clever variation is an old one - Leo Fender's split coil Precision pickup from the late 50's. He was really clever on this on - there are two pickup sections that each sense two strings. They are matched and have reverse polarity and winding relative to each other. So, the coil under the E and A strings does double duty - it "hears" those two strings, but it also acts as a hum-canceller for the D and G strings - it can't hear the string motion, but does cancel the noise! Very, very clever! This kind of design works pretty well on a bass, but having a split coil pickup on guitar doesn't quite sound the same (some of Leo's G&L guitars had this kind of pickup). David Fung | ||
| eligilam
Advanced Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 245 Registered: 2-2006 |
Mr.Fung, you are a scholar and a gentleman. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 6698 Registered: 6-2000 |
As long as the ramp is non-conductive like wood, you can plop it right atop the humcanceller without any difference in function. | ||
| phobucket
Junior Username: phobucket Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2010 |
David, Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Unfortunately, my furnace just went out so this project may have to wait a bit for funds to flow back in the right direction. And thanks for the confirmation about the ramp, Mica. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 435 Registered: 9-2008 |
Thanks for posting again David Fung, your posts are some of those that made me wish to join this Community... |
