| Author | Message | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 226 Registered: 7-2008 |
Put new set extra light strings on MK 5 I resontly aquired. Tweeked the neck just a little to my liking. At last night jam the g string (40) just didnt cut thru. I've used same strings on my Rouge & Essence with no problem. Could this just be a pu adjustment issue, electronics or tonal settings? Steve | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1600 Registered: 5-2009 |
Please elaborate on your descrption " didn't cut through " What was not satisfactory ? | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2008 |
sorry....lower volume. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1601 Registered: 5-2009 |
I would let the neck settle . I like to sometimes loosen all the strings slightly after a truss rod adjustment for about 12 hours Then tune to pitch and wait another 12 hours and then check the bridge and pickup height adjustment. String tension needs to be optimized and stable before string amplitude is best. That has been my experience , others might dispute my suggestions. | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 476 Registered: 5-2002 |
Each bass has different resonant response. First thing to do is follow sonicus' recommendation - let the adjustment settle to make sure that the neck is at equilibrium. When it's settled down, make sure that the string's sitting well at bridge and nut. And check the relief to make sure that there's not a minor buzz that's kiling the string vibration. The easiest way to do this is to fret at the first and last fret and use the string as a straightedge over the frets. You should see the gaps increase in size smoothly to the middle area of the neck and then decrease smoothly. If you see two frets at the same level or out of order, you might need some fret work or you may just want to increase the relief view the truss rod. The other thing to check is to play unplugged and see if the G string sounds dead then too. I think your electronics are unlikely to be the problem since you didn't see a problem before with different strings and action. David Fung | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1606 Registered: 9-2002 |
I generally find that Alembics are slow to respond to neck tweaks via the truss rods. Between the laminations and the 1/4" ebony fingerboard, they're STIFF. On one hand it's a bit aggravating as it really does take a day or two for the eventual 'stopping point' to be reached. On the other hadn, there's nothing worse than a Flexible Flyer neck, you know, one of those necks you can just bear down at the nut end of the fingerboard and you can see it / hear it flex. These can turn into a real handful if you are sensitive to changes in feel. I find on my two fives (a '92 and an '06) that it really takes 24-48 hours for it to finish moving. Can NOT imagine waiting on one with ebony lams ! I could see the relief could be just flat enough with the bridge low enough on the high side to where when it's played, as it vibrates it's just ever-so-barely grazing a fret to damp it in a not very audible fashion. On the other hand, you'd think it would also catch the D, maybe even the A out as well. Or owing to Alembic's adjustable nut (2-piece high- and low-side on a Five), it could be the same thing happening from the other end. But if you follow the steps David outlined above, I'd think you could trouble-shoot that pretty quickly. IF I was betting, I'd think p/u height and/or the occasional brand new, quick-and-the-dead ('but I just bought these!') string. Personally, I'm no fan of XLite strings, because every one of these 'can't hear my G or C' posts I see seem to always involve XLite strings. I'd check my p/u clearances with a ruler. I'd start off getting them even/parallel to the strings (that is, both across and front to back) as a baseline, listening to them carefully through the amp (where I'd run flat if I could to not fool myself into hearing something that may not be there). If they're light or heavy on one side or the other, adjust accordingly, and I'm sure this will go away. Don't even get me started on room anomalies . . . Standing Waves Hate Me. J o e y | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2008 |
I appreciate the suggestions. they are new strings...earnig ball...all live....neck has settled.....fit well in nut & bridge ...No Buzz....Humm but now that I think bout it, it may not have only been the G maybe also the D. May be the xtra lights ? Think I'll try new brand and lights. Steve | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1604 Registered: 5-2009 |
I use a 95/75/55/40 set of Dean Markley 2670 Blue Steel on My Essence and have raised the pickup height and made setup adjustment as per JOEY'S setup page and have no problem with gain/ amplitude/ volume. I love it that way. If I need more it more "phat" I can do it with my EQ. I believe the internal gain adjustment might be another course of action. | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 232 Registered: 7-2008 |
is the Dean Markleys Blue Steel a round wound? I am going to try new strings....turn internal gain some and raise pu some....It really plays like a dream so I dont want to mess with the set up. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1609 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes , the Blue Steel 2670 Are round wound. In fact I just put a New set on my Series I today. The strings that I had on that Bass before were Pyramid Gold Flatwound strings. I use Pyramid Gold Flatwound strings as my flat wound sound. I was really impressed AGAIN by the sound that the Dean Markleys gave me . WOW , it was really impressive . That E string is only a 95 but it gave me that growl that I love from the bridge pickup. The G string gave ME plenty of sound as well. They work well with Bass chords and the intonation is better then many others that I have tried. The big WOW for me with these strings that I perceive is that I am impressed with that even though they are extra light the sound output is substantial. | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 326 Registered: 5-2002 |
Interesting that the problem cropped up after you tweaked the set-up. FWIW, I have found that treble-side strings, like a "G" string, will lose "power" or what I would prefer to call a full frequency response if the action of the bass is just a tad too low on the treble side. In fact, that happened to me last week. If your action is a bit too low, the string won't audibly buzz (like the B, E or A strings will), but its ability to vibrate freely will be affected if it's bouncing off the fret tops after you strike it. (Of course, if the action is waaay too low the D and G strings will buzz, too.) Anyway, try raising the treble side action no more than a 1/4 or 1/2 of a bridge wrench turn and see if that clears up the problem. Bet it does :-) NOTE TO MODERATORS: This thread, and my post, is duplicated in the "Alembic Basses and Guitars" section. Seems more appropriate here.... | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 477 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey's post reminded me about one other thing that's worth looking at... When you go to a lighter gauge of string, the nut slots may be a little too large. That can be another place where you can get a tiny buzz that kills sustain. Of course, I think that only audibly affects the open strings. But (at the risk of upsetting the action at the nut, you can loosen the string, lift it out of the nut, put a piece of paper over the slot and tune the string up and see if it has an effect. I also think that starting up with the pickup height parallel to the string is an excellent starting point from which you can season to taste. David Fung | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1613 Registered: 5-2009 |
Complications with the nut slots being too large makes sense to me as well ; good call. | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2008 |
Wow..... Yes it did crop up after only a 1/8 turn tweak! And different brand strings and from light to extra lights. A small change with big effect. I will check everything noted,string height,possible slight vibration..not set up super low but I will check...pu height, nut slots, consider going back to lights. It'll be this week end before I can report back. Steve Note: I originally posted this in basses/guitars w/o much responce.... then posted here and got responces sorry for the dbl post. (Message edited by thumbsup on February 09, 2011) | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 249 Registered: 7-2008 |
Played last night. Didnt have time to make any adjustments but had no problems at all. All is good! Hum....maybe just needed a litle more time for neck to settle | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 261 Registered: 7-2008 |
Holly $!!!, Pull the MK out at a jam last night and it was unplayable! Now I'm thinking bout putting a little bow back in the neck and raising string slightly! I keep it in its case. The room temp has been a little cooler the last couple of weeks. My Rouge sits right beside the MK and the Rouge is always dependable. I'm wondering since the MK neck is so much smaller and not like the Rouge 1/2 log neck, if that just makes the MK more sensitive? | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 327 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thumbsup: There are a number of very good posts about truss rod tweaking and the effects of environmental conditions on neck stability scattered throughout the Club. Try starting with the FAQs in the "troubleshooting section." Here's a helpful website http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html A couple of observations: I have found that it is necessary to tweak the truss rods as a function of seasonal humidity changes. Humidity changes that are far more of a problem than temperature changes. If you live in a house with forced air heat and you keep your bass in the house (like you should!) the beginning and end of the heating season will result in huge changes in ambient humidity, and your neck will move a bit. The lower your action and the less relief you use in your setup the more likely you are to see the effects of seasonal humidity swings. Another point: changing string gauges, as you recently did, will have the same effect as tweaking the truss rods. In most cases, changing to a lighter gauge string will reduce the tension on the neck, just like loosening the truss rods a tad...but you know that...the point is if you change string gauges around the same time as a seasonal humidity swing the neck will move. My guess is that the MK is moving because you changed to a lighter string gauge, but the neck will quickly settle down. Remember, when adjusting the truss rods 1/2 turn is a HUGE change and 1/4 turn is a lot. The bass will take at least 6 hours to fully respond to what you do, so don't turn the rods more than 1/4 turn at any one time or you will keep chasing your tail. Make an adjustment and then wait and see if you like the results before you make a second one. Good luck! | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2008 |
Thanks Steve Well we are now getting into spring time mode but in the lower central south of USA it may freeze at any time. And my home is forced central heat/air.And since the weather is so crazy right now one day the heater is on..the next day the air is on! I will start out by loosening the rods only a 1/8 turn and hope for the best! I sure hope it works out cause when the MK is on it is simply a joy to play! | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2008 |
I checked out the link you posted. very cool. I believe I made a mistake by adjusting the neck too straight and lowering the strings at the same time. I really like the "Ramp" ideal. Never seen that one before. I wouldn't mind trying a ramp out on my Alembic. Simple install and if you dont like it, easy to remove! Wonder if Alembic would make one or might could get local luthier. It also talked about attack and soft touch technique. PU height adjustment...good view (Message edited by thumbsup on March 02, 2011) | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2008 |
Oh forgot to mention! The fret buzz was only on frets 5 - 8 on the D & G strings. Maybe a reverse bow? And the wierd thing was a buzz on the low B only on the 2 fret. Now given the strings are set to low but makes me wonder if the frets need dressing where buzzing? | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2002 |
The fact that the fret buzz was only on certain frets in the middle of the neck would be consistent with frets that need dressing, but it would also be consistent with strings that are set too low over a neck with no relief. All things be equal (and I know that they never really are) a vibrating string will have the greatest amount of vertical movement towards the middle of the string. I would suggest loosening the truss rod maybe 1/8 of a turn to add just a touch of relief to the neck. If you still have a buzz, you might want to have a tech check the frets. By way the way, when I check the relief on my basses I use a capo to hold the strings down at the first fret, and I also use a set of feeler gauges to measure the relief at the 9th fret. My preference is to have just a touch of relief...about .012" to.013" measured at the 9th fret. Here's a cool website with a picture of somebody check relief with a set of feeler gauges. http://www.pittmanguitarrepair.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=8d7ec035-d610-a6a8-6849f496817a9522 | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 605 Registered: 9-2008 |
I could bet that some frets need to be leveled. | ||
| thumbsup
Advanced Member Username: thumbsup Post Number: 270 Registered: 7-2008 |
Took it to local luthier and he said it needed a litttle relief. Lossened the rods 1/8 turn and raised strings just a bit. Plays like butter now but I still like strings a little lower. I asked if the middle frets needed a shave and he said he doubted since it was a fairly new bass. I know I am looking for perfection but I would like to see how low I can get the MK withoult buzz. Does anyone know how low in measurements that I should be able to get on a MK with out buzz? | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2002 |
My experience has been that Alembics are capable of insanely low action...so low that most of us play harder than can be accommodated by such low action. FWIW, I set up my basses with just a touch of relief...012"-.013" measured at the 9th fret, with the strings at 2/32" - 3/32" on the, measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the 24th fret. I rarely play basses with action lower than mine, so I guess you would have to subjectively call that low, but not insanely low, action. YMMV, of course. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1622 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thumbs, mine are set at around the same numbers that Steve Wood quoted above. Like most things in life, the first 95% of anything is easy, that last 5% takes a lot of work. Your guy was right, my frets are perfect and IF I get it dead straight and too low, you can get that buzz on a few frets. I've screwed around with this for years now, and I'd offer a few observations from my experience. For years I played with a HIGH action and heavy picks, just frammed 'em to death. Over time I began to wonder why a bass couldn't play as easily as a really slinky feeling guitar, say like a LP or a Strat. So I set out after a lower action. I play fingerstyle, a little pick, no slap. Low action will change your playing, as you just can't dig in without a lot of noise, which I hate. Once you're after very low action, it's important to remember you're dealing in movements of a thousandth of an inch. THIS is the hard 5%. If you're really trying to go very low, very small adjustments can feel WAY big. All strings are different from set to set and brand to brand. IF you are settled on one particular set, you can steadily refine this. On the other hand, ANY different set (even different guages of the same string, say going from a 45-125 set to a 50-135 set of Nickel XL's for instance) is going to affect the neck differently, as the tension changes. So if you are in that stage we all go through of a different set of strings every time, and your hands can feel the fine differences, expect to do this a lot until you settle on one particular set. BTW, different brands in exactly the same guages will still affect the neck differently, once you're down to hunting a very low action. I'm always 'behind' the bass, as Alembics take a day or two to finish settling to new adjustments. The strength of the these necks with their laminations topped by a thick ebony fingerboard is a great thing. But you can't adjust it and expect that it's through moving right then. And just like in piloting, your eyes will fool you, and/or most of us don't have the perception to see a difference of a few thousandths of an inch. In other words, I could not do this without feeler guages and rules. I can not tell you how many times it felt perfect right now, only to pick it up tomorrow or the next day and it's just not the same. Pull out the feelers, and then I can see why. You will chase this until you get a sense of your particular bass' wood, how it reacts, how long it takes to settle out completely. Once you settle on a set and get it like you want, the good news is your hands will 'learn' that feel and it will be much easier to keep that setting and tell if something changes. There is a deliciously aggravating interplay of neck relief and string height that was not easily grasped by me. I turned my axes into logs any number of times. I'm certain I haven't mastered it. But Alembics are the perfect laboratory to learn this: The adjustable nut, one-piece bridge, the double truss rods, and their enviable build quality allows a lot of experimentation that's easily reversible. Other basses, you'd be unbolting a neck, or adjusting the bridge saddles separately, or cutting or filling a new nut. We get to skip all that. And it's all very personal. We all play differently, and each bass is different in how low it could go action-wise. I'd easily agree that Alembics probably can adjust for low action easier than most, by design. There is no right answer or 'factory spec' for setup. I always think the best way is to develop YOUR setup and then measure it. Then, you can always adjust YOUR axe to a particular set of numbes (like Steve mentioned above), the you can ALWAYS get your setup, anytime, anywhere, without having to take it to anybody else. J o e y | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2002 |
Great post, Joey! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1659 Registered: 5-2009 |
DITTO ! | ||
| rustyg61
Junior Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2011 |
Joey is the setup Wizard! His posts have inspired me & given me the knowledge & confidence to do the unthinkable.....put a wrench on my brand new Alembic! I just got my SC Signature Deluxe 11 days ago, & right out of the box it had some string buzz. So I made the rookie mistake of just raising the bridge which put the action around what I was used to with my Jazz Bass. Then I read Joey's post on adjusting the truss rods & nut & realized that I didn't have to settle for the status quo of high action that I have been putting up with on my Jazz Bass to get rid of buzz . I have now joined the elite fraternity of Alembic owners where perfection is not only attainable, it is our birthright! So I went out today & bought feeler guages & am following Joey's instructions to get more relief on my neck. It's in the settling period now, so hopefully by tomorrow night I will have the amazing low action that I have read about here! The only thing that rivals the quality of Alembics is the people who play them! Thanks for your help & wisdom Joey! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1624 Registered: 9-2002 |
OK, I promise, Rusty is NOT related to me . . . if he only knew the green-eyed monster I really am. I stole all of it from Dan Erlewine ! J o e y | ||
| rustyg61
Junior Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hey, we're all in the Alembic family, right??! Sorry Joey, I didn't mean to embarrass you, just wanted to give you a shout out for all your help! It is MUCH appreciated! | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2002 |
I hope that everyone is getting the point very few of us who do our own set-ups are professional luthiers, techs or woodworkers. Nearly all of us are self-taught, whether by book (like Joey said, Dan Erlewine's is great) or website. All you need is some tools: a capo, feeler gauges, a ruler that measures 32nds or millimeters, a truss rod wrench and a hex wrench for the bridge...and a little bit of patience. Once you get the hang of it your Alembic will always play like butter. It's really not hard to do at all. Slapping is MUCH harder  | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1629 Registered: 9-2002 |
BELIEVE me . . . if I can learn it and explain it, ANYBODY can . . . . but for God's sake, don't let me anywhere near a soldering iron ! J o e y | ||
| rustyg61
Junior Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2011 |
Joey's advice was spot on! Now my new SC Signature Deluxe feels incredible with no string buzz!! Thanks again Joey! |
