| Author | Message | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 104 Registered: 4-2005 |
This is hard to write, hard to admit. I see why some victims have a difficult time coming forward. I do not want the same thing to happen to any of y'all, so here goes... I was the winning bidder on the 1976 Series I on ebay about two months ago. My local postmaster sold me U.S. Money Orders. The Canadian Seller kept saying she could not cash them in Candada, and was sending them back. They never arrived. Finally another postmaster told me how to track them out. Yes, they had been cashed. It looks like I am out the $2,175 I paid for the bass on ebay (plus shipping). Serial number is "76 569" If anyone sees this again please avoid. The seller was blue6knight and is now no longer a registered ebay user. The thread posting is here on the "Seen On Ebay and other sites" and is archived through July 24, 2005. My gut told me to avoid this, but the deal was enticing, and, alas, too good to be true. This has been a total nightmare. The ebay number is #7337578013. I have opened a claim with ebay, but it looks like I'll only get back about $200 from them, if I am found to be in the right. Apparently there is no way to directly talk with anyone on ebay about this. If anyone has a direct email site to communicate with a human at ebay, I would appreciate it. I waited before posting this because I am working with local law enforcement and we are working to involve the FBI and U.S. Postal Service in prosecuting this matter. Since it is a Candadian seller, this will be more difficult. The seller is claiming that someone else besides her cashed the money orders. If anyone has any ideas, please share them with me. Also, beware....any high end purchaser of any item on ebay is pretty much in peril, it seems. Thanks......as a side note, I had hoped to add a four string Alembic bass to the 5 string MK and 6 string Epic that I own. Guess that will wait as it is tough for me to overcome this type of financial loss. However, my situation does seem petty as compared to what some other folks are going through. If you shop on ebay....Buyer Beware! Please help me spread this message. | ||
| smichaels
Member Username: smichaels Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2002 |
This is one of the problems with ebay (and paypal)...the vulnerability of the buyer. Sellers get ripped off too, but it is usually the buyer. I read somewhere that in the future, ebay is going to provide a service (for a fee, I am sure) that would essentially be "fraud insurance". Is the seller helping out on the Canadian side of this? or is she obviously not shooting straight? I hope things turn out good for you! Sean | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2005 |
At this point, she is not helping. To make matters more complicated, I just swapped job assignments with my company to another nearby city. | ||
| tubeperson
New Username: tubeperson Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2005 |
I'd like to offer some suggestions that may reduce your future risk in these types of transactions. I was the lucky one who got the opportunity to purchase the Roman Conqueror. Believe it or not, some scummy criminal sent me a second chance offer, after I had received the bass! Since I was contacted originally by a second chance offer, through E-bay "My Message", this is what I did, to confirm that the seller was legitimate. Again it's not perfect, but at least some prudent steps may ward off a crook: I first confirmed with the seller that the second chance offer was legitimate. Since he was using a service to sell his instrument, I contacted the service directly as well. The seller did confirm that the second chance offer was legitimate, and we have struck up a cordial e-mail friendship. After buzzing with the seller, I then contacted the vendor, and asked for a phone number. I confirmed that the phone number was legitimate, and the vendor's address for the seller was also legitimate. I spoke with them directly, and again have developed a good relationship with them. It should be mentioned that E-bay sends legitimate second chance offers only through your "My E-Bay" section. I also researched the vendor independently to confirm his address and phone number, to further assure myself that these people seemd to be legit, which they are to this day. If you receive a second chance offer directly with you regular e-mail and not via the "My message" in E-bay, the chances are that it would be a bogus offer. My heartfelt wishes for justice go out to this fellow club member, it is here that I feel E-bay is shielded because of the industry they are in. If the auto or Pharmeceutical industry got away with what e-commerce and software vendors did, we'd have to walk everywhere and eat natual products to heal (love tha voodoo an aloe vera). We need to somehow come up with a mechanism to better protect the innocent well-intentioned members of the on-line community. Maybe E-bay needs to take a case on the chin via the courts because if they did, you can rest assured they would spend more resources cleaning up the crap. I have been the intended victim of credit card fraud, but thank my lucky stars and the higher power that the credit card company checked on whether I was purchasing a large amount of jewelry in another city from where I lived. I even had my credit card with me at home at the time of purchase/fraud, but somehow the criminals got access to my number! Bottom line, know your vendor, and if they do not give you a verifiable address, phone and fax, I would be very wary. If is sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Just thought I'd offer some thoughts to try to protect us. Now let's get back to Feral fenders and Scary Alembics! And good luck/condolences to Mica. I hope she finds peace, as we all learn to deal with the cycle of life. | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2005 |
Seller gave me a valid phone number, address, and email. We communicated through all three. We also communicated via ebay. The second chance offer I accepted was through ebay. My real problem was in trusting the ebay process. I don't know if the person is running, or has been suspended by ebay because I cannot now leave a negative feedback because she is not a registered user. It should not be this easy to steal someones' money. | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2005 |
Again....this second chance offer was through EBAY. and is documented as such....Ebay has opened a claim that it is investigating as one of its transacitons......It was not one of the dozens and dozens of scam second chance offers I've received via regular email that say EBAY..... | ||
| tubeperson
New Username: tubeperson Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2005 |
And that is exactly why E-bay has some culpability in this. Here the buyer does whatever he can do protect himself through the E-bay process, and still gets screwed. No other legitimate business could get away with this. I'm on the buyer's side based on the information presented here. I've said in a previous post that E-bay gets to hide it's head in the sand and Dave Houch "chastised" me for making that statement. What is one supposed to say now? Caveat Emptor! | ||
| effclef
Advanced Member Username: effclef Post Number: 353 Registered: 1-2004 |
David, you may have to wait 3 months until you can ask for it, but the USPS can give you a copy of the Money Orders, front and back, which should at least show someone's signature. EffClef | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2005 |
We are already that far. I have one of the three copies of cashed money order with others coming from USPS. I do have some good contacts in law enforcement beyond the local level. We are documenting, but the process takes time. Once I have the other two money order copies, I then file a request to have USPS look at the signatures and check their info to see where they were cashed, what post office. If they were cashed in the US by a CAnadian citizen, someone had to use a passport. As you can see, there are numerous potential criminal acts. This will not go away easily for this ebay seller, who had a 97 percent favorable rating. | ||
| lothartu
Intermediate Member Username: lothartu Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2003 |
"who had a 97 percent favorable rating" I would bet that the seller's other "favorable" trasactions were with alter-egos of himself/herself on other accounts. If you can still get into the ebay member history you might see if the other accounts that had trasactions with the "seller" account are maybe still open. This scammer may not have been smart enough to clean up behind themselves. As a side note, I only have a little experience with Ebay from both a buying and selling standpoint and I know paypal isn't perfect but I've never bought or sold an item though ebay where a money order or cash was ever an acceptable payment option. It always made me too nervous when I was the buyer and I never liked how it looked when I was the seller. If and when I ever purchase an item in excess of $500 I think I'll bite the bullet and pay for an escrow service to handle the transaction. Not because I think an escrow service is a perfect solution but because anyone that's trying to scam isn't going to go through all the trouble of agreeing to an escrow service intermediary. It's too much trouble and hassle for the scammer. Anyone who is legit should be happy to agree to the process as long as the buyer foots the escrow bill. - Jim | ||
| drjenney
Junior Username: drjenney Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 |
Jim, Just a cautionary note about escrow services: they are not all created equal. We had a situation during this last year [on this list, I believe] where the seller listed some unknown escrow service in Romania. It was bogus! Personally, I would fly to pick up my bass with cash in hand. BassGear.com has some real horror stories to tell. Failing the cash, face-to-face transaction, be sure to use PayPal, a US escrow company listed with the BBB or some other really secure method. I've had over 100 transactions on eBay with only 1 problem, but I always use PayPal. Dr. J | ||
| phys49
Junior Username: phys49 Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2005 |
David, Since the fraud involved USPS money orders it should be possible to get USPS postal inspecters involved. They do have some resources not readily available to most law enforcement agencies. I have about 50 Ebay transactions as buyer and seller with no problems. I do insist on using Paypal or have a face to face meeting with the buyer/seller. I hope you are able to recover your money. Best wishes, Perry | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2403 Registered: 5-2002 |
David; I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. Please keep us posted on the progress of your investigation. | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 109 Registered: 4-2005 |
Thanks Guys. The support is great and very comforting. If anyone knows anything about the bass in question, for sure let us know, ie., if it is owned by someone else other than my Canadian 'seller' ...for whom I would supply identification , if needed. I wanted to post this in part to make sure it did not show up again..and I mean EVER EVER show up again I know the folks at this forum would spot it immediately. Thanks! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 695 Registered: 7-2004 |
David: I found your post very sobering as I am about to bid on a guitar where the seller doesn't take paypal. The feedback looks good and I've spoken with the seller by telephone. Based on your experience, I've decided if I win I'm sending the postal money order registered mail, return receipt requested so I'll be able to prove the seller received it sould a problem develop. I hope you wind up getting your bass or $ back. Thanks, Bill, tgo | ||
| zappahead
Intermediate Member Username: zappahead Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2002 |
I wouldnt make a purchase of that magnitude without being able to use paypal, unless I could seal the deal in person. It is really is too bad that ebay doesnt come through for people in these situations. | ||
| malthumb
Advanced Member Username: malthumb Post Number: 355 Registered: 5-2002 |
lbpesq, IF you make and win the bid on the guitar and IF you wind up paying by money order, I would suggest that you make copies of the money order and send them REGISTERED MAIL SIGNATURE REQUIRED. I did that for an amplifier that I was buying off eBay. The mailing address was a P.O. Box in one of these mailbox / P.O. Box storefronts near Atlanta. I know, I know.....WTF was I thinking??? Anyway, long story short....because I sent it SIGNATURE REQUIRED, the fraudulent seller never took delivery on them, since he would have had to show his face and have his ID and residence info recorded. The other benefit is that as soon as I got a sign that this was a fraud, I was able to contact the Post Office and have them place a trace on the REGISTERED MAIL. I got the money order back within about a week and a half. If you must deal with eBay, consider using USPS Money Orders sent REGISTERED MAIL with SIGNATURE REQUIRED. Peace, James | ||
| bassplayer2106
Member Username: bassplayer2106 Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2005 |
Everything I've bought from evilbay I've been and collected in person and paid cash for when I've seen the goods. There's no way that I would pay someone a large amount of cash just like that. I've sold two basses and an amp and the buyers also did the same thing - one drove all of the way from Portsmouth to collect it - that's about a 300 mile round trip. It just seems like an odd way of doing things. If I couldn't collect the goods due to the distance then I wouldn't bother bidding. I really hope that you get your money back. | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hey, I'm a sap. One of the reasons I publicly posted this financial fiasco is so that others -- especially members of this forum -- can benefit from my present difficulty... I guess I thought that EBAY was safer than it apparently is for buyers. Believe me, I sure thought about NOT sharing this info with you guys. I respect the ideas and opinions of this group...........Also, I had wanted to see if anyone had an email contact for an actual HUMAN BEING at ebay.......anyone?.. And...does anyone know anything about the bass in question?????? | ||
| bassplayer2106
Member Username: bassplayer2106 Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2005 |
They don't want to know when things like this happen. The amount of fake 2nd chance offers I received when I bid on a Status bass was unbelievable and they just weren't bothered. Doing what you've done....in my opinion is quite a brave thing to do. A lot of people would probably keep quiet about it and hope that they got their money back. You're not a sap - ebay is a huge international business making a fortune, and the majority of its users are honest. Unfortunately there is a minority who perhaps should do the world a favour and jump under a bus. By doing what you've done you may well have stopped someone else on this forum from making the same mistake, by assuming that all ebay users are trustworthy and that ebay itself is actually aware or bothered about what goes on. Best of luck in you pursuit for justice. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2411 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've never tried it, but here are the address and telephone numbers for the corporate headquarters: EBAY HEADQUARTERS 2145 HAMILTON AVE, SAN JOSE, CA 95125 Phone: (800) 322-9266 Phone: (408) 376-7425 | ||
| pmoran
Member Username: pmoran Post Number: 95 Registered: 12-2004 |
i, like the other forum members, are sorry you've been victimized. despite the fact i'm frequently ignorant or wrong about alembics because i'm a relative novice owner, my 25 years of experience as both a prosecutor and criminal defense attorney gives me a pretty good 6th sense for bullshit. i think the suggestions above about making the seller present identification and sign for the payment are excellent. i was chastised in another thread involving another alembic being sold out of canada because i questioned the legitimacy of an identical "no paypal" seller's condition. i love it when i'm right, but not at your expense, 57basstra. paypal provides pretty good protection but there are definite flaws in their process too. let me tell you my experience. i sold my late 60's fender bassman 100 head a few weeks ago. buyer received it and posted a very positive feedback indicating complete satisfaction. buyer's mother, who paid for it thru paypal w/her credit card, then filed a chargeback. i went thru hell for 3 weeks w/paypal pointing out that the chargeback was filed THE DAY AFTER BUYER HAD POSTED A COMPLETELY POSITIVE FEEDBACK! i am absolutely convinced paypal never read any of my lengthy emails, nor did they ever visit ebay to verify what i was telling them and they never acknowledged the legitimacy of my argument. they just screwed around for 3 weeks until i obtained the woman's phone number thru information, called her and confronted her w/all this. only when she instructed her credit card company to rescind her chargeback attempt did paypal close their so-called "investigation". also, i'd like to warn all of you about an ebay/paypal scam i nearly fell for last week. i received an email which appeared to be from ebay w/a link for me to click on and follow. that link took me to a site which brought up the ebay sign-in form. the email said i had failed to pay my seller's statement balance and i was about to be suspended from ebay. i was literally about to enter all of my ebay account info into this form when something made me stop. i logged into my ebay account and saw my balance had been automatically deducted from my bank account. i wasn't in danger of suspension. it dawned on me this email w/the link was a scam to get me to enter my ebay info, including password, along w/my paypal info to pay the supposed "balance due", and i would have been cleaned out. guaranteed! so, beware of other scam attempts like this one. btw, 57basstra, i researched your seller's feedback and she had a number of extremely negative feedbacks posted and her responses were really insulting. i think anytime someone has negative feedbacks, even if their percentage number is high, you still need to scroll thru the positive feedbacks to find the negative ones and read them thoroughly. i'm sure if you had read what i just read about her, you would have run for the hills and avoided the sale. i'll keep my eyes open for this bass and i hope val or someone can do some tracking w/the serial number and help you in that regard. when one of us takes a hit, we are all diminished here in the alembic owner's club/forum. | ||
| poor_nigel
Senior Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 518 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hey Patrick, and anyone else reading this thread, ever heard of phishing? Word of advice. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER open an e-mail from eBay or PayPal in your home account. If either contacts you for any reason, go their sites, log in and check there for the correspondance. Phishing is not new, but I guess it is not widely known by most people. The e-mail that took you to the phony page, might have also installed spyware, a trojan, etc. on your system, which will then transmit those sensitive pieces of info you do not want others to know later, when you go and log in. Many anti-virus protection programs can miss these, so get MS Anti-Spyware, also. Update all anti-virus and anti-spyware programs and run them on full settings right after any time you feel you must check out an e-mail from anyone suspicious. For more on the scary topic of phishing (nope, not going to Phish concerts), do a Goggle on it and it will be worth your time, and maybe scare ya enough to not open those phony e-mails from scammers. I typed all this for members' benefit, not as a criticism of anyone, or even to put down eBay or PayPal. However, I will let myself say that one is the new black market for the world and both only care when a dime is made for themselves. They are only interested in profits, not what is fair for us. I seldom use one, and refuse to ever use the other again. OK, I will shut up now. | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2005 |
Again....this was through EBAY........The offer was through EBAY........EBAY is now investigating the claim. I did not fall for a fake email. This is an EBAY transaction. I bring this to everyone's attention because this thread is titled, "SEEN On EBAY and Elsewhere, etc."...Oh, just received copies of the cashed U.S. Postal money orders. from the postal service.....One was cashed at a New York Post Office and two others at a New York Bank......I am at the next step. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 804 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hope you get 'em (and your money back). Best luck. | ||
| natrab
New Username: natrab Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 |
From what I've dealt with, Paypal covers you for up to $1000. I've collected on this when someone sold me a counterfeit item. If I'm going much further above that on an ebay transaction, it's all about escrow.com It's a legit company, and it is safe. Don't follow any link from the seller for some other escrow service. Use one that you know. It's the only safe way. I'm sorry for your loss 57basstra. It's a tough lesson learned. P.S. If you're interested in a 4 string spoiler, I may be willing to give you a super good deal on the one I'm selling (I try to do good deeds once in a while). | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 112 Registered: 4-2005 |
The lesson I learned is not to deal with EBAY (I will amend this and sing their praises if they come through. Also, if you can just cash U.S. Postal Money Orders and say somebody stole them with no repurcussions, then I'd say that needs to be addressed also. Jury is still out on this matter.) If an EBAY seller can just steal your money and tough crap for the buyer, I'd say anyone doing business with EBAY could be in the situation I've found myself in. Again, this was an EBAY transaction. I did not fall for a fraud, other than to say I fell for a legitimate EBAY transaction. On the Spoiler, How much? email me. I have a 5-string MK Standard, a 6-string Epic and a Guild Burnside "The Lance" with Alembic pickups. I bought this ax at a pawn shop and that's what actually brought me back to my desire to own an Alembic. (I also have several American Fenders, American Gibsons, a 1977 Ric 4001, Dean Pace, Dean 8-string, Aria SB, Linus 6 string, Engelhardt upright and others. As you can see, I have been well blessed by the Good Lord to have the hard-earned means to purchase instruments. By way of all this, I've not really wanted to even play my basses recently and am making remarkable progress on the old Martin 6-string. I'm rambling, but I've also been reluctant to visit this forum since I feel like the resident sucker. I know everyone feels my pain, and I indeed am looking at this as you said, a bought lesson. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 709 Registered: 7-2004 |
David: Resident sucker? I think not. Honestly, you didn't do anything different than I, or many members of this forum have done. You just were unlucky enough to get the fraudulent seller. It's something they did, not you. Now back to music stuff. What kind of old Martin? Last Sunday I discovered an amazing guitar store in San Rafael called E*Guitars. Incredible collection of used/vintage. I played two old Martins, a '49 and a '61. Both were 00s - small bodies, but both had unbelieveable tone! It's amazing how much sound comes out of those old small bodied Martins! I may just have to get one. Bill, tgo | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 208 Registered: 1-2004 |
It's important to remember that you are not doing business with ebay. You are doing business with someone else not associated with ebay except that they posted an ad there. Like everywhere else you need to be sure that the seller is legit. I don't understand why people think ebay can police all the sellers, just a wild guess but there's probably 10 million sellers? I got burned on ebay once but after arbitration luckily is was only out $50 shipping. But after that experience I usually stick to high volume sellers with 98% or above ratings. And paypal or CC only. (Message edited by son_of_magni on October 08, 2005) | ||
| 57basstra
Intermediate Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2005 |
If EBAY has enough firepower to do all they do they can police themselves better. If not, then some of us who have been badly burned will alert others and so on and the buyers will BEWARE. (More on this later). ...Actually, my Old Martin isn't as old as I may have suggested. It's a 1996 model DR. Yes, this is a lower end Martin, but believe me..well worth the price. I've played it with D-18s, D-28s and it sounds, in its own way, just as good and plays like butter! I had an under saddle pickup installed. 1996 I believe is the first year for this model, so in a way it is an old one. Also, "DR" are (is?) my initials, so I feel as if it's my custom Martin guitar. ......I also recently found an Alvarez Yari , with electronics, at a local pawn shop and have placed a down payment on it and will bring it out at Christmas.........Good comes from Bad...I have had a good number of Alembic Club members email me and personally speak with me about my 'EBAY situation" and this has really been cool....and comforting. Hey, it's only money. And like Son above says, Ebay can't be responsible for letting its process rip you off once in a while, hey, EBAY's way too big to be concerned about little old bass playing me.... Alas, I ramble on....God Bless us every one. (Play in church. You will love it!) |
