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Alembic Club » Swap Shop and Wish Lists » Seen on craigslist, eBay, and elsewhere » Archive through November 26, 2008 » Mr. Sunshine Selling SC on eBay « Previous Next »

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Senior Member
Username: poor_nigel

Post Number: 605
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:15 am:   Edit Post

I asked the seller of this auction some questions about the bass he is selling, because it does not match the description he has listed for it. He has refused to divilge what the serial number is, at first stating that the bass is already packed up and ready for shipping, and in a second e-mail stated that I could take it to the police and make false theft reports and make a lot of trouble for him on eBay. Yes, that is actually acurate, if I found out it was stolen. I certainly would. He answered none of my questions and then stated I was the questionable party to be suspicious of and that I should find some other sucker to victimize. I do not think I want this bass at any price, which is now moot for thought, as he has banned me from all his auctions. I would e-mail him and thank him for the favor, but he said I should quit sending e-mails only to harrass him. Okey dokey.
Username: ralphl

Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:21 am:   Edit Post

Report this guy to Ebay security asap!
Include copies your emails with this guy (including headers). They can use the emails to get this scammer!
Senior Member
Username: poor_nigel

Post Number: 606
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:32 am:   Edit Post

I have no proof of anything, I'm not so sure he is a scammer. I do feel comfortable thinking he is rude, ignorant, probably a bit on the stupid side, and obviously does not know what he is selling. It is possible that someone hijacked an account, but if so, why e-mail possible bidders such hostile replies? I just thought it a prudent idea to warn my Alembic brothers of this seller, in case any were thinking of bidding on the auction. Then they can contact him and see if they want to continue or not.
Username: jimmythesaint

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:33 am:   Edit Post

I have a substantial history dealing personally with Alembic. I last talked to Mica a couple of weeks ago, and then Ron about some custom electronic work for my Tribute. Because of the current economy, I need to sell many of my valuable guitars, including my 1990 Stanley Clarke Standard. I have a spotless reputation as an eBay seller, with over 200 positive seller feedbacks, with no negatives. I listed this auction on Nov. 13, and have received extra requests for photos, which I posted the next day. I have answered many questions on this Alembic Stanley Clarke and other guitars I must auction off. Yesterday, this eBay user poor nigel sent me many aggressive, accusatory questions indicating his concern about fraud. I answered them, but the guitar is now packed for shipment and is well described, as experienced buyers know what they're getting with an Alembic Stanley Clarke Standard. This user then groundlessly accused me of lying, and then threatened to use this Alembic Forum to try to hurt me financially. Sadly, he has followed through with his threats to try to hurt me, and is absolutely not telling the truth about being told to go to the police and make false theft reports. I do not commit crimes, and I do not suggest to people or have ever told anyone to commit a crime or engage in financial fraud. I will contact Mica on Monday to ask that this slander be removed from this forum. I don't think this place should be used as a forum for people to retaliate maliciously against their fellows.
Senior Member
Username: poor_nigel

Post Number: 607
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:45 am:   Edit Post

I have the e-mails you sent me. You have displayed a SC Signature Deluxe bass, yet list it and display the specs of a Signature Standard. Nothing to make anyone suspicous there, eh? No year stated or much of anything in your description. You seem quite ignorant and everything else I have thought about you. And yes, I will post anything I find to be suspicous about a sale of an Alembic instrument on this forum. You are welcome to do anything you please, too.
Username: ralphl

Post Number: 59
Registered: 4-2008
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 5:56 am:   Edit Post

IMHO, I believe all email exchanges should be kind and mannerly, here, on Ebay and in general. I agree that nastiness can bring on more nastiness. All that is totally unnecessary, no matter who started it.
However, as a seller on Ebay you have an obligation to represent your items thoughtfully or suffer the consequences. Banning people is no answer. Everyone wants security but as a seller you must remember that your behavior (including your ad)is judged first and foremost.
Frustrating as it might be, the responsibility of the transaction is yours.
You want money for your bass? Then kindly provide real information without complaint. There is no tyranny or Gestapo here, so you have nothing to fear since you are innocent, right?
And I mean that, I am not being sarcastic. Defensiveness is the primary weapon of a scammer.
As a seller, calmly do the right thing.
Or, if a scammer, run like hell.
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 3378
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 8:58 am:   Edit Post

The serial number is visible on one of the pictures in the auction, except the last two digits have been redacted. It appears to be from 1990.


As a relative newby, or at least a rare visitor to these parts, you may not be aware of the shocking number of ebay frauds using Alembics. I'd estimate we find at least a couple every month. The result is that we are admittedly a suspicious bunch, but, unfortunately, experience has shown our suspicions to be well founded. E-mail is not the most efficient form of communication and misunderstandings do happen. Tom, (Poor Nigel) is a long-standing member of this forum. I'm sure he meant no disrespect. If I had requested a serial number, and been told "sorry, it's already boxed up", I would have suspected a fraud too. This is a common response to serial number requests on what have turned out to be fraudulent auctions. I hope everyone can kiss and make up, and good luck with the auction.

Bill, the guitar one
Username: ptm1diver

Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 3:50 am:   Edit Post

Good Morning all,

Or, should I say good moaning?

Its prudent of any potential purchaser of an Alembic to request a serial number. I have no dog in this fight, but I was prepared to buy a Stanley on another auction, when I noticed the add was almost identical to one found elsewhere that turned out to be a scam.

Jimmy, in hindsight, you could have responded to Nigel that the bass was packed up, but you would call Mica on Monday to get the serial number for him.

Jimmy, like you said above, you "have a substantial history dealing personally with Alembic." It should be a simple matter to get the serial number from Alembic.

I gave up dealing with owners of Stanleys to acquire a used one and purchased a new one. Its not worth all the trouble.

Best of luck to you Jimmy and to you Nigel and happy holidays.

Username: maximum_guitars

Post Number: 16
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 5:35 am:   Edit Post

Now, ladies. . .
Having been the object of this forum's scorn, I can only say that it is no fun to be in your sights, regardless of how innocent a seller may be. Self-appointed brats try to justify their accusatory tone and aggressive behavior because there have been frauds, but your style is ready, FIRE, aim. Just because a guy doesn't know the specs or the model of a guitar, you start stacking the wood for the witch burning? Think I exaggerate? Check how many of these e-bay and for sale posts begin with suspicion of a seller. It's epidemic. Methinks you guys enjoy this aspect of your alembic ownership too much. You stare down from your hippie sandwich Olympus and accuse the poor of trying to steal all your sacred copper.
I have had a couple alembics recently that I thought about keeping, but whenever I looked at them, I thought of how ugly the forum members can be, and I decided that I really didn't want anyone to think I belonged to that club, even by association.
There are two schools of thought on serial numbers, in case you astute ebay members haven't noticed. There is the school that offers full disclosure and the school that does not release the serial number. Both claim to be concerned with security. And that's THEIR choice, not yours. They paid for their auction. If you don't like it, click your mouse and move on--but it doesn't indicate a thief. Of course when a scammer does list an item, he either has to give the SN or hide it, so this is the old eating carrots causes car wrecks argument. And, btw, I have had a bass packed when I was asked a question and I too refused to unpack it.
I see hundreds of hijacked identity auctions for gibsons, fenders and rickenbackers every week, but nobody has ever accused me of selling a fake fender or gibson because of someone else's auctions.
Isn't this a forum for adults who can take care of themselves, by themselves? I mean, really, is this what gentlemen do after they buy a nice guitar? Preen and coo and accuse? You should be ahsamed of yourselves.
Intermediate Member
Username: drjenney

Post Number: 115
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 5:54 am:   Edit Post


I move we delete this thread--or at least close it down. Everybody's had their say. No one is going to change their position. I'm weary of the accusations and name-calling.

Dr. J
Username: maximum_guitars

Post Number: 17
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 6:37 am:   Edit Post

Right, yes, moderators, please, it's no fun when the accused fight back.

The only name calling I saw is in the initial posting. The rest is truth.
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 507
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 8:15 am:   Edit Post

As one that has been stuck in the middle of a very strange Alembic situation I can sympathize with everyone involved. It is good that we look out for one another if we are truly good people and I mean this in general and not just here at the Alembic forum. The accusations and name-calling shared on this thread may have been unnecessary but as we all know tempers flare and a forum is a place to sound off. Why does our moderator have to get pulled into such a situation. All parties here should be adult enough to handle their own mouth piece and wallet if someone wants to "bid". I believe the forum cares most that the Alembic pictured gets a good home and played often. All the other semantics going on here have no need to be argued. Sorry to see that the auction has ended early and I hope that the bass finds a good home where it will be greatly enjoyed - life is too short! Art
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 412
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

I can certainly recall a number of occasions where someone was watching an fraudulent auction, and were saved from a scam by the members of this forum. Simply put, the time to be suspicious is before you buy an instrument, not after. Alembic has been kind enough to host this forum, sometimes at their own peril. Despite however you might feel about the members of this forum (and I certainly don't always agree 100% of the time), it is in my opinion unfair transfer these negative feelings to the company itself. They certainly can't control what people post, but I think they do an exceptional job at keeping a friendly community (if you know of a better one, please let me know, I am always up for a good gear page). I am sure that both disaffected parties will find themselves welcome at this forum in the future. On the other hand, if you don't like the folks here, and you personally don't want any associations with them, well there are lots of other sites on the internet.
Senior Member
Username: dannobasso

Post Number: 905
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 9:48 am:   Edit Post

I would rather sell to someone on the forum than put things on ebay. I know that if I post something, there are enough good folk who are knowledgeable and above board who might be interested or help out those who are. If the good folk here have doubts about an instrument, they share that with others and more often than not, spare someone from a costly mistake. I always look at what is on offer and read virtually every thread. This place is my first choice when I fire up the computer each day. I would prefer if individual parties work out their issues off board so as to preserve the positive atmosphere of the club. But that is merely my preference. And to those who have been kind and positive to me and my gear over the years, I heartily and sincerely thank you.
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 3381
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post

It strikes me that it really is a testament to this site and the people who populate it that posts that reek of negativity, (see a few posts above, maybe?), are so unusual that they really do stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Bill, tgo
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 7166
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post

As Bill stated, communication via email and forum postings is much more haphazard than speaking in person, and speaking in person can be fraught with miscommunication. Despite our best intentions, people will misunderstand what we have written. It happens. And that's ok. We learn from experience. We need not blame ourselves or others. Miscommunication happens. We need not be angry with ourselves or others. We learn from our experiences, we grow, we communicate better.

Each of us has traveled a unique lifetime journey to get to this point, this place at this time. We can not know the journey that anyone else has traveled; and we understand little of our own journey. We, or the person we are communicating with, may be rushed this morning, we may have just had an altercation with an employer, or customer, or a driver on our way to work. Health problems, family problems, financial problems, etc, all play a role in where we are at any given moment, and in how we thus communicate with others at any given moment. Our past experiences in a particular milieu will color the way we communicate on that topic. Ebay is an example. Our past experiences, feelings and emotional responses based on those experiences, will subconsciously influence our communication on that topic, just as it does countless other topics, and just as it does for those with whom we are communicating.

Despite our best intentions, miscommunication happens. It's ok. We need not blame others or ourselves. We learn; we grow. We evolve as individuals, and as a community.
Advanced Member
Username: lowlife

Post Number: 354
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post

A-Ho! Well said Dave.

Ellery (Lowlife)
Intermediate Member
Username: new2alembic

Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:45 am:   Edit Post

Wow Dave. I understand even more fully why Mica asked you to be a moderator. You are a man of peace and wisdom. Your words are truly inspiring. Thank you.


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