| Author | Message | ||
| janriviere
Member Username: janriviere Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here we go, I am sure a lot of you can give some input on this subject. What do you think is the current market value of Series I or Series II basses ? Does it depend on some parameters like, country, age, installed options, place of selling (online, offline), general condition, original selling price, others? I am starting this thread because I always thought that the 6 string Series II as described in http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/4799.html?1057237669 was a lot above the market rate. It’s still for sale in London at the price of 4990 GBP (= +- 8400 USD). So that’s 52,5% of the new value (16000 USD). My opinion was that it was too high, especially if I often see Series I/II basses for sale on e-bay that sell for 2000 – 3000 USD. So that would be between 20% and 30% of the new value. What is your experience with the second hand values? What do you think should be a reasonable percentage? Of should we just accept the asking prices as they are? Peace Jan | ||
| harald_rost
Junior Username: harald_rost Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Jan, that's a good subject. Of course it'a law of supply and demand as usual. I watched the market for used Alembics Series basses in Europe for some years and they extremely rare. So the prices are high (take a look at: www.station-music.de). It's another situation in USA, where theses basses go mostly for the range you've listed. Of course it depends on age and condition. For my personal experience: I bought my Series 1 from 1976 in an 8/10 condition for 1.825 USD about four years ago. I don't know what was the new price in 1976 so I can't calculate the percentage. Harald | ||
| zappahead
Junior Username: zappahead Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think its also worth noting that if the person bought it from a dealer, they did not pay close to the full price on a series I or II bass (or guitar). Its also worth noting that the prices were increased substantially recently as well and a lot of people selling used Alembics did not pay the newer and higher prices. Just from what Ive seen, 8400 is high for a used Alembic (or any other instrument that wasnt a new custom order). I guess they could have spent a lot on upgrades or it may be just an immaculate example. | ||
| dela217
Advanced Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 211 Registered: 6-2002 |
I guess anything is worth what someone is willing to pay. I have purchased used Series 1 basses for as little as $300.00 all the way up to $4000.00. It just depends on the circumstances and of course the bass. I guess it makes sense to shop around, but that may not apply in other countries where there are so few. Here in New Orleans, there seems to be LOTS of Alembics. In the 70's to early 80's I could walk down Bourbon Street, where the music clubs are, and see different Alembics every night. Back then, it was not uncommon for bassists to trade Alembics back and forth. I did! | ||
| bigbadbill
New Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm afraid here in England the amount being asked for that bass (which I've actually seen and played) is not excessive. A Signature Standard in decent condition, sold through a shop (not necessarily a dealer) will go for around £2200 (around $3500).They are, other than Epics and Orions, by far the most common Alembics here. Used Series 1s are extremely rare and generally very old, but strangely tend to go for a similar price. A used Series 2 4 string, assuming you could find one (I think I've seen about 3 in the UK in 20-odd years) will set you back around £3500-£4000 ($6400)in a shop; I therefore don't think that £4900 ($7800) is excessive by English standards for a 6 string of that calibre. It also appears that in the US dealers of new Alembics tend to offer anything up to 20% off retail(sometimes much more than that); I have only once seen Alembics in the UK sold at a reduction from retail, and that was only for a brief period. It appears that in the UK we pay a significant amount more for new Alembics than in the US. I was recently quoted a price on a Series 1 (with options)in the US that would only just buy me a Signature Standard here. Unlucky for us, unfortunately, but then we're also paying something like 25% import duty on top of the price of the bass (I don't know whether that's the case in the rest of Europe). I recently saw a Series 2 go on E-bay in the US for around £1300; I had e-mailed the seller but got no reply. I was kicking myself afterwards! By the way, anyone in London checkout the Gallery/Bass Gallery (whichever you wish to call it)where this 6 string is; its an awesome shop and the guys there are incredibly friendly and helpful; plus Martin Petersen is a phenomenal luthier. | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 248 Registered: 7-2002 |
Something else to consider is the fact that older series I & II had less standard features than current models. A 70s or 80s series instrument generally will not have side leds, continuous wood backplates, gold or chrome hardware or the inlaid logo and will have less lamination on the bodies. Also those basses'electronics all would have to be upgraded to be brought up to current specs (you may not need the upgrade, depending on where you live, but if you do it generally means 1000$ or more depending on the year of manufacture). I guess what I'm saying is that I'd be willing to pay more for a recent series than an older one. Valentino | ||
| janriviere
Member Username: janriviere Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2002 |
It's becoming more clear now that second hand prices in the USA and abroad, are two different areas. It is a fact that you don't see so many Alembics in Europe for instance. I guess that has a major impact on the second hand prices. Thanks to you all for the input, especially bigbadbill who gave a good view on the UK second hand market. More comments are welcome of course ... Cheers | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 718 Registered: 9-2002 |
And don't forget EU price = US price + transport + VAT + import taxes + the price to pay having a rare (in EU) bass (or being weird, or being exclusive, or having excellent taste ...). Conclusion: "Sweeeeeeeeeee-ty ...wher did you put your nylon stockings ...I have to go earning my new Alembic"!! Paul the bad one | ||
| elzie
Advanced Member Username: elzie Post Number: 232 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm beginning to think there is more to this nylon stocking thing than just a disguise Paul......... Paul The Worried One ;) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 720 Registered: 9-2002 |
bou-hou-hou Dr Paul.... you see...(Snirf-snirf) when I was young ... oh-oh I'm so ashamed Paul the trapped one | ||
| janriviere
Member Username: janriviere Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2002 |
I guess that this auction comfirms Bigbadbill's point of view. Cheers Jan | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 731 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jan ...maar t's een schoooooooooo-on é manneke!!!! Paul de slechte | ||
| captain_jan
New Username: captain_jan Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2003 |
When I bought my -75 short scale Series I in 1989 from Bass Centre in London I paid around 850 GBP as far as I can remember. Already at that time I realized that if I ever was to find such a bass back home in Finland it would be a lot more expensive. So I considered myself very lucky to get her so cheap. In early 90's I recall trying a long scale Series I with a graphite neck for a mere 1000 GBP. Did't buy her because the pick-up selector was badly in the way when playing slap style (funny it doesn't disturb me at all on the short scale!) although she would have been a cool bass to have. Getting the -87 long scale Series II was a different thing since the previous owner via Bass Centre asked 7000 GBP for her. I ended paying a bit less, though... Just out of comparison I saw two Alembics in Hong Kong, one short scale Series II and a long scale Series I, both were made -94 and apparently unused. They were in the shop for many years, seemed to me that no-one wanted to buy them but I enjoyed playing the heck out of them every time I was in the shop! The price tags were 8000 USD for SII and 7000 USD for SI. I managed to bargain the price of the latter down to 4000 USD but didn't have the extra cash then so no deal. The SI has since then been sold but the SII might still be there... Excluding the item of "out-dated" electronics in an older bass I like to think Alembics as instruments of higher value even if thery're older. In acoustic instruments the older ones are considered better and more expensive. I guess that has something to do with the "sound becoming more mature" in time? I don't mean those Italian violins made by Stradivarius some 300 years ago, even ordinary acoustic instruments like violins etc. made today are more valuable after 30 years time depending of the crafmanship of the luthier, of course. But anyway I reckon custom Alembics are real collectors items and even normal Alembics should have a better retail value than any other bass. (hopefully no bass shopkeeper reads this!) But I'd still love to do some serious bass shopping in the US market one day... All the bass Jan | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 749 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jan, if I were you ...I'd go by boat. If you go on shopping like that ... Paul the bad one |
