| Author | Message | ||
| dr_z
New Username: dr_z Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2011 |
I am looking to modify a starfire ll reissue to get more tonal variation and punch. I would love to reproduce the "godfather" but I am sure I could not afford it, so does anyone have input on where to begin this project? Where can I get specific info about what was actually done to Phil's bass when it was alebicized> Thanks, Z | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1018 Registered: 5-2002 |
There are several steps along the path. My first step was to put a badass bridge on mine and Bartolini pickups (triple coil GBs. Took them 18 months to finally get them to me) with a Bart preamp. That sounded OK. Very versatile and it became several engineers here in Boulder's favorite bass. Killer slap tone with roundwounds. Step two was a pair of Dark Star pickups. Great sound, but sort of a sideways step, as it gave me more of a Live/Dead sound than a Europe '72 tone. The next step was Alembic style hardware. Mine was a custom one-off that pretty much fell into my lap. This made a huge difference as every note now couples with the body in a much stronger fashion. After that, I moved from the Bart pre to an ACG filter based preamp. It's got a lot of good features to it. It has a deeper reach than Series I or II (down to 70hz) but I don't find myself using it down there much. It doesn't go as high, which is a little frustrating sometimes and the sweep covers a lot more ground which makes it hard to tune in exactly the right frequency on the fly. My Series I is much much easier in this regard. My next step (where I am currently) is with early 70s Series pickups installed. This brought me way way closer to the E72 tone. I have it installed with the ACG preamp (mine is an early version with filters for both pickups) but I haven't installed the humcanceller yet. My next step is to pull the ACG and then install a full Series setup with no filters but stereo out to run through an SF2. I've got almost all the parts together to do it, so I'm hoping to get it done by the end of the week. After this settles in, I intend to put in SII filters. As far as the evolution of Phil's Starfire, it looks like it's been through 2 major steps and several minor steps after that. The first was the installation of additional magnets to the pickups and preamps. The next step was the new hardware, new headstock, and superfilters (essentially). After that, it seems like minor mods were made with a new fingerboard, a different tailpiece, etc. As far as the actual electronics that were installed, I think they are fairly unique. There are state variable filters with each pickup and one of the crucial aspects of this setup, like the SF2, is the ability to blend in the straight signal with the filtered signal. I tried to get this happening with the ACG filters with no luck. Anyway, there's some food for thought. Let me know if you have any more specific questions. Remember, two avenues of mods: 1) physical mods, with a new bridge, tailpiece, etc. and 2) pickups and electronics. They both make a big difference. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1046 Registered: 10-2006 |
Phil's Starfire also got an Alembic quadrophonic p/up in the center position. Peter | ||
| dr_z
New Username: dr_z Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2011 |
Thanks for the info guys. Steve | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1992 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi Steve (dr z) Click on the link and you will see my two Guild Starfires as well . I sold the Maple long ago but I still have the Mahogany. http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/1926.html?1283131832 Sonic Regards __________ | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1995 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hello Steve , here is an explanation for the Maple Starfire that I posted here in the Alembic club ; http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/2792.html?1262960781 The remaining Mahogany is not for sale. Happy Starfiring ! | ||
| pasewark
Intermediate Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2003 |
For what it's worth I have a maple '96 starfire II reissue with Dark Stars installed, I run my SF2 through the effects loop on my Mesa and I can get pretty damn close to an early 70s Phil sound than any other setup I've had in the past. I'm thinking I'd like to put a Alembic Blaster in the bass and replace the circuit with Alembic pots and wiring as the stock pots and wiring is just okay. I run everything on the bass wide open and then adjust the amp. An Alembic bridge would be nice at some point too. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1050 Registered: 5-2002 |
Maybe try a blaster for each pickup and then you'd have active summing. I think that sounds better to my ears. | ||
| pasewark
Intermediate Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes, I think they talk about a similar setup in Phil's EB3, using a Darlington Emitter soldered to each pickup. Here is a list of all the mods I'd like to do to the Starfire: Dark Star Pickups w/ a blaster connected to each pickup - Maybe a bypass switch for the blasters for each pickup? A better wiring harness than what comes stock, so an Alembic Vol & Tone controls for each pickup with a Master Volume. Use a 5 pin connector to power the blasters. Add a brass nut, alembic bridge and tail piece. Am I missing anything? Oh, I have this going into my SF-2. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2098 Registered: 5-2009 |
HI Donald, In a" nut shell " I think that would work. Of course there will be specific circuit design details such as a power attenuation supplying the blasters via your 5 pin connector concept as I believe the blaster requires 9 volts DC as apposed to the +/- 15 to 22 Volts DC from an Alembic DS5 type of power source. As well there might be tone control/ capacitance issues & potentiometer issues and choices specific to your design. I believe the stock blaster circuit already has a bypass switch . I would wire it stereo out and then to an Alembic SF-2 or F-2B or 2 Furman PQ-3's or a combination of all the above. I think connection of the Blaster circuit directly to each pickup before any secondary circuit might prove quite satisfactory for the playing experience you might desire . Alembic Bridge & tail piece and nut are the way to go. My your thunder be joyous !______ Wolf | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1052 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wouldn't bother with the bypass. I like the making the leap and deciding that an instrument is what it is (I made that decision for Nick aka afrobeat_fool when I had the mothership carve an omega into a Series I that necessitated the removal of the battery box. I think the plug they made looked great!). My Starfire with Series guts has no battery option. It's fine. I always bring a backup bass, so if there's a problem, just swap it out. But, primarily, make the electronics bulletproof, which is pretty easy with Alembic circuits. Im not sure, though, that I would go with an outboard power supply with the blasters. They don't draw a ton of juice, so a battery would power them for quite some time. If you do want to power them externally, it wouldn't be hard to built an appropriate power supply, although you'd only need 4 pins (Series electronics require + and - voltage, the blasters only need +9). You could probably even get away with adapting a wall wart or one of the commercially available supplies designed to power pedals and then just have a 4 or 5 pin cable to a breakout box on the other end for voltage and the stereo (switchable to mono, of course) outs. I would definitely put a good size door in the back. It makes working on the electronics much easier and then you can also have access to the interior to shield it. Good pots and wire will definitely make a difference. Get some of the mogami shielded wire designed for this kind of thing. You'll love it! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2100 Registered: 5-2009 |
Blasters have a stock bypass and gain adjustment, right ? . Access doors come in many flavors, I prefer a front plate , wood or brass or what ever you like. I agree that adapting a wall wart is practical .LEMO connectors are also a choice to decide upon . But stereo wiring I think is KING. | ||
| moonliner
Junior Username: moonliner Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2004 |
So, if I may join in the discussion.... I am finally moving forward on my own starfire/alembic project. I acquired a starfire that has already been stripped and made into a fretless. I'll be having the good folks at Alembic put on a new fingerboard (ebony with LED's) and a new headstock, bridge and tail piece. The bass will need to be built in stages as funds allow. I don't think I'll be able to do onboard super filter, but feel ok getting an SF 2 and running through that. I may start with anniversary electronics with the option to go series later. I should know this, but what are these blasters you talk about adding to pickups? Europe 72 is my goal.. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1296 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nice! The blaster is a preamp that was developed for the strat that you can see at the Alembic store on the main website. If you are going to go series at some point (I highly recommend it, mine sounds great as a SII) and have a SF2 available, perhaps you might experiment with a passive stereo output for now straight into the SF2 with a channel for each pickup. My personal approach is to the SF2 as overall tonal shaping while the onboard SII electronics adjust the pick attack. It's a pretty good combination. I'd love to see pictures, especially some before pictures now so we can see how it progresses! | ||
| pasewark
Intermediate Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have something to add - My '96 Starfire has the Darkstars installed. I have an SF-2 in the effects loop of my amp (mesa carbine 6). With this setup I can pretty much dial an early 70s Phil tone. Recently I aquired one of the early Alembic active cables. I've been using that without the SF-2 in the loop. I have to say this cable is fantastic. Basically it's a cable with a blaster built in. It sounds amazing with the darkstar pickups and I'm sure it would be awesome on any instrument. On my Guild it really pulls out that extra something that makes the pickups really sing. So I have a blaster in the signal chain without having to do any invasive work to the instrument - great! So far I haven't been able to get a great tone using the Cable and the SF-2 together and that's only because I haven't worked with it that much yet. Once I get it the way I want it, I'll report back. But the point I wanted to make is that active cable is awesome and worth the cost. | ||
| moonliner
Junior Username: moonliner Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thanks for all the great input! Right now I'm still without an SF2. That's part of the 'as funds allow' portion of the mod :-) I'm thinking of taking the electronics out of my existing Alembic and dropping them into the starfire while it's in the shop for it's neck work. That would give me anniversary electronics with bass boost and cut switch and treble boost and cut switch. Would the blaster be something for a passive setup or would it work with the electronics I'm putting in there? One day it will have the series II gear, but again, it's as funds allow. One of the things that kept me from moving on my dream sooner was the hunt for the perfect starfire donor (as Mica put it). I didn't want to pay premium money for a starfire 2 in great shape, only to strip and hack it up. I finally found the perfect bass last monday, and it was only a few miles from my home, at Emerald City Guitars. It had already been stripped and the fingerboard removed and a fretless one put on, and the headstock was void of any mention of Guild. Just perfect for me! Thanks again for all the help. I'm sure I'll be calling on all your knowledge and friendship as this dream turns into glorious reality!   | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2639 Registered: 5-2009 |
An Alembic bridge with sustain block and Alembic tailpiece might be swell as well . It was done in 1975 on my mahogany Starfire and I like the modification. | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yeah, I'll be doing the bridge and tailpiece thing as well. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1297 Registered: 5-2002 |
Really pretty. Kind of makes me want to strip mine. Here's a pic, in case you haven't seen it.  | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 817 Registered: 9-2008 |
Here's something I've been wondering for a while now, if people dream about owning/making an Alembicized Guild, why hasn't Alembic made a hollow body bass similar to it? I would certainly buy one! Maybe someone should order one :p ~Taylor | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 818 Registered: 9-2008 |
Here's something I've been wondering for a while now, if people dream about owning/making an Alembicized Guild, why hasn't Alembic made a hollow body bass similar to it? I would certainly buy one! Maybe someone should order one :p ~Taylor | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2004 |
That's a great looking bass! I think I remember when you got those pickups a while ago. The bridge and tail piece look old as well. Where did you find those? Is anyone having Alembic do any of the work, or are you guys doing it all yourself? Taylor, when I started talking to Mica about my guild/alembic a few years ago she mentioned something about possibly doing a hollow body but that it was still in the concept stage and quite a ways off or maybe even wouldn't happen at all. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1298 Registered: 5-2002 |
My hardware is a one-off, built by a friend in his basement. He might have made a few, mostly out of curiosity for the process and then he moved on to other things. There are a couple of issues with the bridge, as far as adjustability and stability goes, but it does the job. It's a huge improvement from the stock bridge as you can now feel the strings drive the whole body and the sustain is much improved. The brass nut is just a piece of brass stock from the hardware store, machined into the right shape by one of the wonderful folks at Woodsong's Lutherie, here in Boulder, no big deal. He also built the pickup surrounds, which was a pretty big deal to get to conform with the curvature of the top. I think that was the single most expensive part of the upgrades. The electronics I installed myself, but I do that with all my basses. It was a little more involved than most, as I had to rebuild the filter sections from scratch, but once I got the cap values right, it was pretty easy. At some point I might try to do it again using audiophool caps and components just for giggles. I can't imagine it would be all that much better, but you know the devil finds works for an idle soldering iron! I would have loved for Alembic to do the work, but at the time I didn't get much of positive response, as they have been really busy just doing their own work. I still do have fantasies of getting them to do an ebony board for it and LEDs would be way cool! I would never do this kind of stuff with my Series I. I'm a respectable solderer, but they really do it right. | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 125 Registered: 1-2012 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77-vQJtbFas&feature=related | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2004 |
That's a great clip. I can't help but imagine there are some red eyes under those sunglasses.... just saying... :-) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10903 Registered: 5-2002 |
That is indeed a great clip! | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2004 |
Dropped off my Starfire at Alembic yesterday and had such a lovely visit. I've been to the mothership a couple of times, but it's always exciting to see what's going on, and this time my girlfriend was with me and she was fascinated and enthralled by the whole experience. Mica was such a generous host. It was really lovely how sweet they all were and how they make you feel like family. I really felt like they wanted to help my dream come true, any way possible.. It was just a beautiful visit, and a grand start to an adventure years in the dreaming. I feel I'm in very good and caring hands. Thanks! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1387 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wonderful! What's first on the list of mods? You are definitely going to be very happy when it comes together. It is a wonderful trip. My wife has accompanied me as well to Santa Rosa and as a perfume designer, she was very interested in the smells of all the woods. Alembic is truly a multi-sensory experience! Eyes, ears, and nose! | ||
| artswork99
Moderator Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1820 Registered: 7-2007 |
Glad to hear the visit went well Keith. Have fun with the mod process. Regards, Art | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10982 Registered: 5-2002 |
Congrats on getting started Keith; and yes, a visit to the shop is wonderful. | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thanks everyone! It's going to take a few stages, and there's really no rhyme or reason to it, besides knowing what I want aside from 'need'. :-) New headstock with ebony laminate, logo with shell behind it. The logo won't be flush, as it's an oil type of finish. New ebony fingerboard with LED side markers in either green or red. Can't make up my mind just yet! The violet ones are W I L D, but for my eyes they are kind of distracting.... and trippy! Bridge with sustain block, and a plain tail piece. Electronics will come a bit later.... Smaller pickups to fit the very narrow neck were talked about and seem to be doable. So, I think that's it for the first stage.... I'd love to get it all done at once, but I have to gather lots of nuts and berries first! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2747 Registered: 5-2009 |
Excellent ! The bridge with sustain block and tail piece are a good start. I noticed a huge difference on mine when that was done back in 1975. I am both excited and delighted that Alembic has decided to do this transformation . I will most certainly be watching. Wolf | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1391 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sounds like a great start! A new headstock and fingerboard would be a great addition to my SF. As far as LEDs go, I would probably do something like red with amber at the 12th fret. I love the LEDs on my (actually now Pierre-Yves) SI. I'm going to miss that. Are you thinking series electronics and pickups? | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2004 |
I'll probably start with something a little more basic (no pun intended). Volume, filter, Q switch... maybe bass/treble boost and cut. Ultimately I would love to have S2 electronics, but that will have to wait. Red LED's are nice... I have them on my SC. I was toying with green for the earthy factor. Oh dear... option anxiety! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5310 Registered: 7-2004 |
Red doesn't degrade night vision. Other colors like green do. Something to think about. Bill, tgo | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1408 Registered: 12-2004 |
Red degrades night vision, but it's the least energetic part of the light spectrum, so it affects you less. There's always the dimmer option, too. Bradley | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yes, I think I'll go with red. The dimmer idea is one I've been thinking of. I like to have the light fairly low. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5311 Registered: 7-2004 |
On my custom Further I had the dimmer switch placed inside the control cavity. I tend to find an adjustment I like and leave it there, so rather than drilling another hole in the guitar and having another knob, I adjusted the brightness of my LEDs with the dimmer and then screwed the control cavity cover back on. Bill, tgo | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2004 |
That's exactly what I have on my SC but for this project I may be in the market for more knobs! | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 844 Registered: 9-2008 |
more knobs you say? you could always get an SF-2 installed like on this bass http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/16123.html?1316024798 ;) ~Taylor | ||
| sparechaynge
Intermediate Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 105 Registered: 6-2010 |
Been following this since the beginning. Moonliner, be sure to keep this thread well updated! I too am pursuing a superfilter in a bass. For me, Bass + Tons o'Knobs = http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/4179.jpg !!! | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2004 |
Taylor, thanks for the link to that bass. Very cool! I hadn't seen Alembic install a superfilter since the old days. That's kinda what I'd love to have done! And yes Sparechaynge, that's exactly what I'm going for! | ||
| sparechaynge
Intermediate Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2010 |
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... I hope Phil appreciates all the work that gets done here! | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2004 |
I feel bad I kind of hijacked this thread. Should I start a new one someplace else? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7889 Registered: 6-2000 |
I'll start an FTC thread for this project. | ||
| speicky
Senior Member Username: speicky Post Number: 470 Registered: 3-2005 |
Alembic is capable to do ANYTHING... speaking of knobs you could even control the drummer tempo ;) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1422 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't need a knob to control the drummer tempo. With the drummer that I play with now (Christian Teele, who we're all very proud of out here in Colorado because he just got back from the Grammies where he jammed with Al Jarreau and DeeDee Bridgewater as the CD he made with them was up for a Children's Grammy. You can also hear him on E-Town, but I digress), I don't even have to look in his direction. By the end of a note with a tempo adjustment, he's locked in. If you have drummer tempo issues, the only knob that will work would be on the end of a big stick, with which to whack him to wake him up and remind him that listening is more important than playing. By the way, all this tempo/drummer stuff works great with my Alembicized Starfire! | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4032 Registered: 6-2002 |
What about this for a custom starfire? Jazzyvee | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4033 Registered: 6-2002 |
What about this for a custom starfire?  Jazzyvee | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3390 Registered: 5-2009 |
I like that Jazzyvee. Where did you find that one ? I like the position of the tailpiece to accommodate long scale strings. It would be interesting to know what the details of the electronics and wiring are . I wonder who owns this one ? Nice ! | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4034 Registered: 6-2002 |
It was on the UK Basschat web site but no further information on it that I could see quickly. I just happened to find it during a picture search for J-type activator pickups. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/12155-short-scales/page__st__20 Jazzyvee | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3393 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks Jazzyvee , I find UK Basschat to be an interesting site . | ||
| pasewark
Advanced Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 238 Registered: 4-2003 |
I acquired this 68 Guild Starfire a few months ago. I had the neck pleked and refretted (it needed it!) The electronics are passive, but the cavity has been prepped by closing it up, silver paint, etc. Ron thinks the work was done by Stars Guitars back in the day. I'm deciding what I should do with it. I'd like to get upgraded electronics and may be a new bridge and bring it back to a short scale string length. This hand made bridge is interesting, but it is off slightly. Looks like it's been around. With the neck fixed it plays really well.  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3395 Registered: 5-2009 |
HI Don , very interesting. In my opinion I think that an Alembic bridge would be a good idea with a brass block . Why do you want to move up the tail piece ? How do those pickups sound ? I think that I may have seen this bass @ Stars Guitars back in the day as well . | ||
| pasewark
Advanced Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 239 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Wolf, The pickups are defintiely "thin". My other Starfire has Darkstars in them and it sounds great, its also a passive instrument. Not sure about the short scale thing. Just thinking out loud. If I go forward with this project, I'll replace the pickups with Alembic or Bi-Sonics. There's a guy building the Bi-Sonics now and he'll wind them for Hi-Z or Low-Z. I wonder how the low-z would sound with series electronics. I'll also replace the bridge. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4035 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Wolf, I find the Basschat UK site a bit tired now. I went there hoping to increase my general bass knowledge but kind of felt I was one of the defenders of the alembic faith as there is a strong anti-highend bass /alembic contingent there. Alembics receive a regular price vs value for money bashing and now I don't post there much but still read some of the more interesting threads. i've now started reading participating on talk bass hoping to get some more open minded bass knowledge. Jazzyvee | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3396 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jazzyvee, I respect your words regarding this . I have not had much experience there except that I once read an interesting thread there regarding keyboard players with a strong left hand playing in the bass players range and stepping on their chops and the how various bass players have approached problems resulting from such keyboardist. I remember that being quite entertaining . | ||
| count
Intermediate Member Username: count Post Number: 159 Registered: 10-2003 |
Old thread, but Pasewark: If your interested in parting with your "moustache" tailpiece I would be VERY VERY interested. | ||
| pasewark
Advanced Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 276 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi, Yes, the tail piece and brass nut are something I would keep on the bass! |
