| Author | Message | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi, I was hoping to get some help in filling in the blanks (question marks) on the two basses spec'd below, any help is greatly appreciated. thanks - Tom Bass 1 Tribute Bass (based on Orion) -------------------------------------- • Orion 4 string 3200 (34 inch scale) • Epic/Orion electronics N/C • Cocobolo upgrade N/C (Aug. Special) • Ash Body 100 (This can go depending on total price) • Custom Body Shape ???? • Crown Headstock 200 • MOP inlays N/C • Brass Backplates 75 • Bird Shape Bridge • Maple Accent Laminate ???? (This can go depending on total price) Bass 2 Stanley Orion --------------------- • Orion 4 string 3200 (30 inch scale) • SC body shape 100 • Crown (Omega) Headstock ???? (This can go depending on total price) (example here: http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/8291.html) • Epic/Orion electronics N/C • Cocobolo upgrade N/C (Aug. Special) • MOP inlays N/C • Bird Shape Bridge | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 289 Registered: 9-2003 |
Tom: I'm not Mica or Val (nor do I work for Alembic) but as a customer of a Custom Orion, maybe I can shed some light on the subject (Mica/Val, correct me if I'm wrong, please). Bass #1 - Ash body should be N/C upgrade. Custom body shapes require a custom template starting @ $350 (non-spoiler/small std./std. point/std. omega) Bird-shaped tailpiece (not bridge) is std./N.C, Contrasting accent laminate is N/C Bass #2 - Omega crown? Val's is a one-off piece...price is TBD by Alembic (how much more can it be $300-$400 versus $200 for the std. crown?) I hope this helps. Just my $0.02 Kevin | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 184 Registered: 3-2004 |
Same discalimers as a non employee here. When I was out there about a month ago, I found that they made a template for Val's headstock because I was interested as well. I can't say what they'll charge, especially since I don't know how much extra work the Omega cut adds. I assume the custom body shape you're looking for is the Tribute shape. The tribute shape requires an extra-thick top because of the carving. There's probably a fair bit of extra work over the standard bass shapes to make a Tribute body. It's a great idea, one that I, too, would consider. Unfortunately, I suspect that it will be pricey. I don't know what the upcharge would be, but consider the East-Meets-West electronics package, too. It will give you some added flexibility that I think will probably be worth the price. Good luck! | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 290 Registered: 9-2003 |
EMW Electronics adds $650 | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi guys.... thanks for the input! As it stands now Im defintely looking harder at the Tribute body 4 string!!! with just a regular crown headstock. So what I need now is the price for the body shape? I can see how the extra carving on the top could make it a bit pricey, But man Im practically dreaming this bass now. I certainly hope kmh364 is right about the N/C on the ash body! The east meets west package would put this bass out of my price range, but I have been considering the upgrade to essence electronics with a Q switch. So this is what I have thus far: • Orion 4 string 3200 (34 inch scale) • Epic/Orion electronics N/C (or) essecnce & Q • Cocobolo upgrade N/C (Aug. Special) • Ash Body 100 (or) N/C??? (This can go depending on total price) • Custom Body Shape ????(the biggest cost factor) • Crown Headstock 200 • MOP inlays N/C • Brass Backplates 75 • Bird Shape Bridge • Maple Accent Laminate N/C thanks again - Tom | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2003 |
Check out phils bass here!!!!  | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2003 |
I knew I had seen Phil play a bass with the same body horn shape as Jerry's!! But it had been a a long while and never saw a picture of it (so, I thought I was dreaming?). Do you know who built this one? It's a 4 string. Phil says he switched to multi in 79 or 80...When's this pic from? Bill | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2003 |
As far as I can tell he had this bass at radio city music hall 1980. I have also seen photos of him playing this bass at one other show during the 80's (but I cant remember where) - Tom | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 291 Registered: 9-2003 |
Tom, I think you're right: I was at one of the '80 Radio City shows and I vaguely remember that bass. He may have played it prior ( I caught them earlier that year at the Garden and Nassau Colisseum) But I don' remember seing him play it afterwards (Rutgers Athletic Center, June '81). I was kinda highed-up also, so there you go, LOL! I don't have my Reckoning or Dead Set "albums" handy, or I'd ck and see if I could find it. While I'm sure you'll pay considerably for that body shape, the swamp ash should be free....it's got to be cheaper than Honduran Mahogany. As far as I know, It didn't cost me a dime on my bass. As far as a free cocobolo top from the monthly special, you'll have to ask because of the double thick top plus a bass body is certainly bigger than a guitar body (a la Tribute). At least you won' t be forced to buy a back lam a la Series. Cheers (Message edited by kmh364 on August 10, 2004) | ||
| senmen
Advanced Member Username: senmen Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2003 |
Guys, you were asking for another pic of Phil Lesh playing the Tribute style bass. This shot, although not the best, is from a german Rockpalast TV concert dated March 28th 1981. This was the same concert where the legendary WHO also had their great gig. Many greetings Oliver (Spyderman)  | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 293 Registered: 9-2003 |
Oliver, Danke Shoene. 1981 is more than half my life ago (I was eighteen at the time), so it is hard to remember clearly back then (the ganga didn't help either, LOL!). It clearly looks like an Alembic, although I can't see the headstock emblem. If it's indeed an Alembic, and not a Doug Irwin, Mica should still have the template hiding somewhere. Can you find another pic that is clearer? BTW, How is the job search going? Has the economy in Deutschland improved any? | ||
| bkbass
Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2003 |
I believe Irwin made both guitar and bass.I not a dead head per se'but I recall reading an article in guitar player many moons ago.Can someone help here?The years have a way of adding their own distortion.In my conversations with Mica,Alembic can offer the tribute shape without the carved top(flat top) for n/c as the wood is then the regular nominal thickness.The other thing to consider is scale length.Theres some club shots of various instruments in spray and one can see a short scale(SS)next to a tribute.From the camera angle it looks like the (SS)horns(bouts)just about even up with the (poor reference,top bout on the tribute looks like a slightly bent finger to me)finger joint.Now consider that the(SS)strap button is about an inch past the bouts.Look at some the comments about balance on these things and how some have moved the strap button more forward on the neck heel and you can get a fair idea of scale length.I'm thinking a SS will have the best balance at 30" with a 32" medium scale coming in a close second.Mica can send you an overlapping tracing in contrasting colors and show you the exact strap button placement on the SS in relation to upper bout of the tribute and in doing so take somne of the guess work out of the build.I had also considered a rendition of the dragon bass'headstock to continue that finger like design and have it flow visually rather than change styles abruptly.Hope this helps. | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 295 Registered: 9-2003 |
It looks like Susan needs to chime in here. She's very passionate about preserving Alembic history and has little tolerance for others taking credit for Alembic's work (especially Messrs. Irwin and Turner, et al). She's written elsewhere about how the original Jerry Alembics were modded by Irwin and had the Alembic logo removed and Irwin's logo added. Having said that, It is quite possible that Irwin made Lesh's bass as an analogue of Jerry's guitar(s). If Alembic doesn't have the template and has to make it, plus add the carved double-thick top, it may be out of Tom's price range. Barry did hit on something though. If Tom can live without the carving OR go with an OPAQUE finish (See the Blue Steel Tribute w/chromalusions paint that just sold), you can get that shape out of a single wood carving (i.e., all body, no separate carved top laminate). Tom: Send Alembic a private email or call them and discuss your options. The rest of us can conjecture ad nauseum till the cows come home. Alembic is ultimately gonna tell you how much moola it'll cost to make your dream a reality. Good luck, Tom Cheers All, Kevin | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks to all for your help Ultimately it seems like it is going to come down to the price for the carved body (or) whether I can get this shape with a flat top (which I would still do). I dont think I would go with a solid color (although a great idea considering cost) I really have my heart set on a "wood" top. bkbass hit on some thing Ive been thinking about as well...scale length can anyone tell me the real difference in feel and in tone if any between a 32 inch scale compared to the 34? - Tom | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2003 |
also  if the carving with cocobolo is too much perhaps the carved body with a nice dark walnut would bring the price back down? - TOm | ||
| senmen
Advanced Member Username: senmen Post Number: 341 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kevin, many thanks for your mail. Unfortunately no news regarding a new job. Hard times in Germany at the moment. So anybody out there wanna offer me a job in the music industry? :-) I am willing to move...... I will take a look to find more photos.... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 538 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi Tom: First, to the extent you are considering anything about Phil's sounds, the Godfather was a short scale. I'm not certain, but I believe his solid body Alembics were short or medium as well. Even his current Modulus 6 is a 34" - not a 35" like the standard - something I learned they will not build for just anybody (I asked). In a 4 string, the 32 inch scale is just about a stubby-fingered guy's dream from an ease of play standpoint. The strings are definitely looser, but not to the point of affecting technique - other than making bends very easy and particularly controlable (due to the lesser distance you push the string and the lighter string tension). Some of our long and extra-long scale afficionatos should definitely weigh in on sound (I'd value Val's input particularly, since he has a definite opinion). If you were going the flatwound route, I've always characterized the short scale (30.75") and "true" short scale (like the Guilds and Gibsons - 30" even) as a bit "hooty" on the highs and mids and more like a longer scale on the low end. The medium (32") scale represents a sonic compromise that I particularly like - stringier like the long scales, but a bit punchier like the shorts. My new bass is a medium and I've had it set up with TI flats, so I could tell you more when it arrives. But prior to this, I had a 32" Spoiler and loved the feel and the sound. Given the number of Spoilers and Distillates out there among members who also have long and longer scale Alembics. All that said, I've found it's very hard to get a real feeling of comfort and understanding about scale length without trying it yourself. Do you have access to any short or medium scale basses (preferably Alembics)? Bill | ||
| senmen
Advanced Member Username: senmen Post Number: 342 Registered: 7-2003 |
Guys, here is another shot of Phil Lesh with the particular bass. What makes me a bit wondering are the white P-bass style pickups (early DiMarzios?) Oliver (Spyderman)  | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Bassman, Ive owned a Brown bass before and did definitely like the 30 inch scale, but... what I found to be a bit of a problem was with spacing of the frets as I played higher up the neck, (it was a bit tight for me) I dont really have stubby fingers. I currently have a 78 fender J and a 35 inch scale Roscoe SKB3006 and like I said Im not exactly a tall person but my hands are very comfy on the Roscoes wide neck. I have never played a 32 inch scale before but as long as the spacing of the frets are not as tight as a 30 in scale I think this would be a happy medium. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 539 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kevin K (of July's Monthly Custom) said he ordered his new bass in a 34" because his previous Alembic (a 32") made him feel crowded in the upper registers. You might ask him for his perspective. Bill | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks Bassman10096, maybe Ill drop him an email as I get closer to ordering. Just to update in case anyone else has any comments: Tribute Bass ------------------------ • Orion 4 string 3200 (32 inch or 34 inch scale????) • Epic/Orion electronics N/C (or) essecnce & Q Woods for carved top, depending on price: 1st choice: Cocobolo upgrade (Aug. Special) OR 2nd choice: (Dark) California Walnut both with ash body Flat top: 1st choice: Walnut top with walnut body & Maple accent outline around body shape 2nd choice: Cocobolo N/C Aug. Special, with an ash body & maple accents -------------------------------------------------------------------------- • Custom Body Shape???? • Ash Body 100 (or) N/C? • Walnut Body 200 • Crown Headstock 200 • MOP inlays N/C • Brass Backplates 75 • Bird Shape Bridge • Maple Accent Laminate N/C - Tom | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2003 |
one other thing... would anyone know what a walnut top and walnut body would sound like? Im supposing there is a reason why this seems not to be a very popular option. thanks for everyones help!!!! | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 185 Registered: 3-2004 |
Well, first important thing you need to reconsider is your wood choices. Since you're choosing a set-neck model, your body/top woods are going to have more impact on your tone than they wouldd in a through-neck bass. If you go with the ash body, I think that means less deep bass and more midrange. Your cocobolo top would be really helpful on this bass. The most "Alembic" sounding wood combination will probably be cocobolo over mahogany or vermillion. Moving to the Essence model will probably cost you about a $400 upgrade charge to get the through neck, and then it won't matter quite so much. This all comes back to your priorities. The key factors seem to be price, feel, tone, and appearance, in whatever order they matter to you. Then you have to consider that these are all subjective concepts, so my preferences won't necessarily match yours. I think you know what yo uwant the bass to look like and what you want to pay. I don't think you have represented as well your preference for feel or tone. You seem to be a Dead fan, so I would think the more traditional Alembic tone would please you more than a Fender Jazz. While an Alembic in ash wouldn't sound like a Fender, it would be more in that direction than I would want to go for myself. With regard to scale length and body size, I doubt the Tribute body is any smaller than a small standard body, and it's probably a bit larger. It's certainly thicker. You may be able to use the regular Tribute body size with a medium scale bass neck, especially in four string with Jazz-bass spacing. They could tell you better, but I think that might balance out pretty well. Who knows, maybe I am nuts. Thin kabout all this stuff, validate what seems important to you, and make your own decisions. It's your money and it will be your instrument. Best of luck! | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2003 |
I am going to try and keep this as simple as possible, Im just trying to isolate what I really want, But I can see Im already starting to overthink it. I am a Dead fan but Im not nesseceraly going for that tone. for myself Im playing Jazz/Rock and Electronica. - Tom | ||
| zappahead
Member Username: zappahead Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2002 |
That headstock with the eagle is the Irwin logo. Id say he built that bass, whether he did it while working for Alembic(with others) or not would not be something Id know, but thats his logo. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 541 Registered: 7-2003 |
I suspected it was the eagle, but didn't look carefully at the pix that were posted later. That would make sense chronologically in relation to the Irwin guitar Garcia is playing. I think Phil also appeared with the Dead on Saturday Night Live playing this bass in 79 or 80. Bill | ||
| rraymond
Member Username: rraymond Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Tom, I don't know what walnut-on-walnut would sound like, but walnut front and back laminates on mahogany sound great! Check out Jimmy Johnson's Series II on either of James Taylor's DVDs, "Live at Beacon Theatre," or "Pull Over." More low end than you can shake a stick at! Reid | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hey Thanks rraymond! Im sure alot of that has to do with the series II electronics but I will check it out. | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 508 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hello Tom, an Orion does not come standard with Mother Of Pearl inlays, they are an extra 200$; the bird tailpiece is also an extra 200$; the orion normally features a half moon tailpiece. Custom body shapes start at 600$, and a Tribute style bass shape would be 1200$. The ash body is no charge. Upgrading an Orion to Essence electronics is 250$. On a tribute shaped bass the top would have to be double the thickness; on a custom instrument the special takes care of only one standard laminate of Coco Bolo; so, on this instrument, instead of 2000$, this month a Coco Bolo top would come to a 1000$. A California walnut double-thick top would be 400$. A case for this instrument would have to be custom ordered, and unfotunately we get charged double for custom cases, which means that our customers do too; in this instance the charge would be 450$. Valentino | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 46 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Valvil, Thanks for setting things straight. Alas this beauty is not ready to be born (at least to me, at this point) back to the drawing board. - Tom | ||
| hollis
Advanced Member Username: hollis Post Number: 296 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hi Valentino, I think that the bird tailpiece is standard on the Orion..... At least that's the way I read the price list. BTW, how's your bass coming along? BTW#2 What's it like working in a fish bowl? | ||
| echo008
Junior Username: echo008 Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi... I thought the bird tail was standard as well... I have never seen an orion without a bird tailpiece. Valvil, can you please tell me the price to upgrade from the standard crown to the crown omega headstock?, like the one you have on your new bass. which by the way is absolutely amazing!!! - TOm | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 509 Registered: 7-2002 |
There are several Orions with half moon tailpieces, one of them on the catalog as well. My price list says that the Bird tailpiece is an extra 200 on an Orion; however after reading the posts from Hollis and Tom, I went and checked our products page on the site, and sure enough we list the Orion as having the bird tailpiece; I guess we need to correct one or the other. Hollis, my bass is waiting for the hardware to come back from the plater; after that it can be set up and I can take it home; a little later I'll bring it back when it's my turn on Ron's bench for the upgrade. Working in a Fish bowl...never thought about it that way... but it's cool...lots of little details to remember; the only real shortcoming is that I drive 2 hours everyday (total) to get here and go back home. Tom, I don't know how much the omega headstock is, since Susan hasn't told me what she's gonna charge me for it. I will let you know as soon as I find out. Valentino | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 300 Registered: 9-2003 |
I was gonna say: I know I didn't pay extra for my bird tailpiece and I don't think I had to spec it because it was standard (at least on the Orion 4). |
