| Author | Message | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2014 |
Dreaming is all it is... for now. I haven't a clue how long it might take, but I suppose step one is starting a fund, the size of which to be determined by what appointments are built into the order. I'm not a full-time player anymore, just a working guy with 15 years to go before even considering retirement. I do have a handful of steady, sometimes profitable gigs, including a repair shop where I work on upright basses, so there's at least there is a stream of disposable funds to put toward a bass order. Discounting the possibility that I may find "The One" already built between now and then, this will just be a live fire exercise... just having a little fun... dreaming. If it happens, well, the build sheet can come straight from this thread, and it'll be a cool story. To start with, if I were going to commission a new bass, it would (obviously) be an Alembic, but what would it be? So Far: 1. Five-string 2. Neck-Thru 3. Maple/Purpleheart neck laminates (3) 4. Lined Fretless, Macassar Ebony board Not much to go on... but it's a start. I simply don't have nearly enough experience yet to make good choices, especially on the electronics. Love my Quilted Maple Persuader with PJ/PVF Activators, wired Volume-Pan-Filter & 3-position Q switch, but I'm looking for a fretless contrast to that sound. Traditional soap-bars have a sound that appeals to me. Bass/Treble Boost/Cut works well for about anything I do musically, but the Filter is also a magical tonal experience. We'll see where this goes. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4199 Registered: 6-2002 |
Seems you are making a good start in your dream. Have you put any thought into a body styling? For me Europa/Elan body styles balance incredibly well but you may not be a fan of that style. Here is one of my favourite looking alembic's. http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_smootho.html The Europa electronics package on this bass is really great to use live and with the bass and treble quick change switches you can do a lot with the flick of a switch without even adjusting the filter. From my experience with single filter alembics and dual filter alembics, you will get much more tonal flexibility with a two filter system. It does however take quite a while to grasp what is going on tonally with two filters and the Q-switches but the rewards are immense. Here is another great fretless bass at the higher end of the alembic spectrum. http://www.alembic.com/info/FC_purpleprincess.html I look forward to reading your dream idea's developing as you continue to think them through. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2072 Registered: 2-2005 |
I went with a set neck for my fretless as I wanted the mid-rangy bump similar to what you get with fretless Jazz Bass. Like the first bass JV posted I went with sidelines and dots instead of ghost frets and they have worked out well. Based on your update I agree that the Europa would be good to consider. I'm also of the opinion that it is the most performance friendly of the various electronics packages available. Here is a link to my fretless for some other ideas. Keith | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2014 |
Wow, those are some beauties fellas! I do actually prefer the Europa/Elan body shape of all, but the cone headstock appeals to me a tiny bit more than the Orion.(I have to admit though, that the Smooth Operator's headstock is slowly changing my mind!) Conversely, I'd also given some thought to building an homage to McVie's famous "continuous fretted" omega cut. And I'm fine with the longer (34") scale, having started out on upright. I would actually prefer 35", simply because it's what I'm used to. My two go-to basses are the aforementioned Persuader, and a Turner Electroline 535, a disparate pair to be sure. I'll go ahead and add the long scale to the list. The sidelines are a very nice touch too. And I can't say enough about how much I like the continuous wood options... that's just awesome craftsmanship. For wood selection, I would request the warmest, woodiest tone possible, but with lots of sustain. I'll agonize over the top laminate... my favorites are Quilted Maple, Cocobolo, and Walnut. The electronics... well, I need to make it to a meet-up somewhere within a days' drive of Virginia I guess, and play a couple. I played a Distillate 5-string about 15 years ago that just branded me for life... and may well be the bass that solidified my resolve to own one someday. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2014 |
1. Five-string 2. Neck-Thru 3. Maple/Purpleheart neck laminates (3) 4. Lined Fretless, Macassar Ebony board 5. Extra-Long Scale 35" 6. Europa/Elan body (maybe) (Message edited by edwardofhuncote on September 03, 2014) | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 559 Registered: 9-2009 |
If you're looking for fundamental sustain and a big low end, you definitely might want to consider adding an ebony laminate to the neck recipe. Two purpleheart lams with an ebony stringer between has provided me with a monster low end. As far as the headstock goes, take a look at the following for a sampling of what the mothership has done in the past: http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/82450.html?1281325818 | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3567 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'd go along with earlier comments that the Europa electronics package is one of the easiest to use on stage. if you like the feel of the p bass / jazz body, consider the Rogue. After some thought I went with a lined fingerboard on mine. graeme | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2014 |
Settled on the Europa body last night... it's lines are just so graceful and unforced. I'm leaning toward that electronics package too. Still need to try one somewhere for firsthand experience, but the sheer sensibility of 2 MXY's, Filter/Q-switch, with Boost/Cut switches for Bass/Treble... I don't imagine a way to go wrong there. So... 1. Five-string 2. Neck-Thru 3. Maple/Purpleheart neck laminates (3) 4. Lined Fretless, Macassar Ebony board 5. Extra-Long Scale 35" 6. Europa body 7. Europa/Elan Plus electronics (maybe) Almost time to start thinking about wood. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2014 |
I've just had a fairly radical, or maybe downright crazy idea... based on this:  One of the bands I play in would best be described as a neo-oldtyme ensemble, part classical, part string band, part modern acoustic. Anyway, the principal songwriter sent me a demo of somebody she knows playing one. Although aware of half-fretless banjos, I wasn't aware at the time if anyone had ever tried it on a bass. So, I'm wondering what Alembic's take on this would be? (given McVie's stainless steel fingerboard having sorta' set precedent) We are talking custom here, and I guess this is the place to air out crazy ideas... Nutty? Do-able? I'd go fretless up to #11... (Message edited by edwardofhuncote on September 09, 2014) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2077 Registered: 2-2005 |
If you Google half fretless bass you will see folks have done it. Typically the lower notes are fretted and the upper are fretless but I've also seen some where the lower strings are fretted the full length and higher strings are fretless the whole length. Would Alembic be willing to do something like this? Only way to tell is to ask Susan. Keith | ||
| growlypants
Member Username: growlypants Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2011 |
I don't know for sure, but I'd think buzzing would be a real issue when playing notes around the 9th "fret". Cool idea, though!! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2014 |
Just for clarity - following the model of the fretless banjo, the brass plate would necessarily be the same height as a fret would be, so that when affixed to the fingerboard and spanning from the nut to where fret #11 would be, it could be played fretless in the lower register, and noted in the upper. The frets from 12-24 would necessarily be below the plane of the fretless segment. A little better visualization: I believe the expression on McVie's bass was "continuously fretted"... which would accurately describe this brass fretless section. | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 563 Registered: 9-2009 |
There's a local luthier in my neck of the woods who has been doing this for years (Brown's Guitar Factory). He refers to his basses as frettedless, They are fretted in the lower register and fretless in the upper. I've played some of his creations, (he does custom work as well as having some standard models) and can say that he does excellent work. Check out his website: http://www.brownsguitarfactory.com/ and a YouTube video of John playing one of his more basic creations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-9wY57AZIs I also seem to remember that Ibanez has a fretted/fretless creation of their own. If memory serves me well its a 5-string bass with the D & G strings fretless and B,E, & A fretted | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2014 |
Yeah, I saw that ^ while reading the various google-button results - *very* nice work. Interesting too, how he's a third generation luthier. I learned a lot of what I know about working on instruments from my Dad, who built banjos, the rest from a violinmaker who didn't mind a pesky apprentice, and of course, the Lifetime School of Hard Knocks & Dumb Mistakes. I'm really liking this idea of a half fretless (or continuously fretted lower register, if you will) and I'm reasonably sure it *could be* done, especially once the creative force in Santa Rosa got actively involved. I'm tempted to do a test mod on a fairly cheap bass, simply by de-fretting a neck down to the 12th, and somehow fastening a plate about 3/64th's thick to the fingerboard surface, mostly just to see how usable it will be in the real world. Here's the reasoning behind this scheme... playing a fretless bass is not all that difficult for me, having been primarily an upright player most of my life, but since spending some time on bass guitar the past few years, I've learned to do some chord-type things up the neck, some of which are very difficult to do (read - dang near impossible) on a fretless bass. But if my bass had some frets up there to assist with the multi-string accuracy...? I don't know... it may be all-for-nought, but in the spirit of the "dreaming for now" thread, well... that's what I'm up to here. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 1059 Registered: 9-2008 |
do you know this convertible fretted to fretless bass? http://youtu.be/J2WOOIZXNks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MViWP44Abt8 (Message edited by mario farufyno on September 11, 2014) (Message edited by mario farufyno on September 11, 2014) | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 1060 Registered: 9-2008 |
You'll love this article at NoTreble about BGF basses http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2012/02/02/bass-of-the-week-browns-guitar-factory-frettedless-bass/ | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 566 Registered: 9-2009 |
Interesting take. I wonder how they keep things tight over time to avoid fret buzz. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1560 Registered: 5-2006 |
Mica commented on the convertible fretless here: http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/29615.html | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 1061 Registered: 9-2008 |
I wouldn't trust, Hammer... | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2014 |
I don't know if my idea of a half-fretless is D-O-A just yet... I still believe what I'm imagining would work, since the "fretless" section of the fingerboard would *actually be one long continuous fret* from the nut to the 11&1/2 th, and be fretted from 12th through the 24th. The string action (as in - the distance from top of fret, or continuous fret, to bottom of string) would be the same height as if it were any other bass. It's difficult to describe in such a way that one can visualize. The above picture was best, but it seems to have failed. I'm starting to question whether fretless is the way to go at all... | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2014 |
Let's try the detail picture again...  | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2014 |
Haven't updated in a while, but since a couple sales of idle gear and basses have gone through, my custom fund is trending upward. Still, these are the musings of a dreamer. =) I had been leaning strongly toward Signature electronics, as a sensible, very usable package, but lately I've become fascinated with the East-Meets-West electronics. (hey, you can't get much further East than here, and it's a loooong way Westbound from here to Santa Rosa!) Seriously, most of my basses are wired Volume-Pan-Bass boost/cut-Treble boost/cut, and it's what I am "used to", but playing an Alembic with filters and q-switches has changed my tastes somewhat... I'd love to try this setup with a filter. One of the major concerns while planning my future custom is knowing what body will accommodate which electronics package, and most importantly, which combination will best for me. I still like the Europa body, but also growing fond of the Balance K. There is also an allure to the old-school-cool of the Standard Omega cut. And this half-baked, half-fretless notion hasn't gone away yet either. Hmmm... what to do... what to do??? | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Intermediate Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 130 Registered: 6-2014 |
Another item to add to the "what if" list... piezo pickups in the bridge saddles. Hat-tip to edwin for bringing this post to my attention: http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/67349.html | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1654 Registered: 11-2004 |
Piezo would be a nice option to have. In terms of the electronics and what will fit in what... pretty much the only electronics that require something extra are series electronics, which require a slightly thicker body. So, if you're building a custom with signature electronics, with the intention of someday upgrading to Series, you'd want to plan in advance and do a 'series prep' build with the extra depth and with the humcanceller routed, etc. Otherwise, I think they can squeeze anything into any of the body shapes. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2014 |
Time for a Dream Thread Update: I had an epiphany about a month ago, regarding what I want to do musically in the next 20 years, and pretty much hit the reset button. This is a priority, (or rather, moved up the list) so I finally had a quote done on a custom bass, and it's at least within reach for this-coming year. Now that the quote is printed out and tucked into my daily planner under "stuff to do", it's getting pretty real now... it's exciting to at least see where the finish line is. The goal here is a fretless bass that I can interchange seamlessly as possible from my Persuader 5-string from a playability standpoint, but also be my ideal vision. Ultimately the primary, go-to instrument... everything the Persuader is, and then some. So... Here's the basic build: 5 string bass, 32" scale, fretless. Standard Omega body shape. 3 purpleheart neck laminates. Classic taper, ebony fingerboard. East-Meets-West electronics. Some other options I went with: Bird tailpiece, polished brass hardware. Brass backplate & truss rod cover. Gold tuners & strap buttons. Sidelined fingerboard, with bronze dots. Bronze logo, maybe with script. Undecided as of yet: Top - birdseye maple, or vermillion. Headstock - Spoiler "Cone" or Orion "3+2". Headstock - front & back veneers. So I left a couple things open-ended, but not things that would significantly affect the bottom line cost. Before getting much further along, I need some educated opinions regarding pickup selection and placement. Of course the Elves already know what works and doesn't, and I'm very much looking forward to that conversation, but I'm wondering what you folks think. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1630 Registered: 5-2006 |
That's gonna be very nice! :-)  | ||
| moongerm
Intermediate Member Username: moongerm Post Number: 127 Registered: 8-2013 |
Like it! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2014 |
Thanks Flip, that's *exactly* the graphic I was trying to imagine... LOL! Dang... it's still hard to decide. | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 3223 Registered: 6-2002 |
Starting to look like a JJ Signature, with the cone headstock that JJ himself prefers! (Message edited by adriaan on March 06, 2015) | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1631 Registered: 5-2006 |
That's definitely going to get the JJ seal of approval I guess :-) Here's the Orion headstock with your preferred 2+3 layout:   (Message edited by fc_spoiler on March 06, 2015) | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2014 |
I printed both out and pinned them up in my shop where I'll be for most of the weekend. First impressions favor the Orion 3+2, which is also nice in reverse. That said, the symmetrical simplicity of the Spoiler "Cone" is hard to turn away from. Small disclosure: John McVie & Jimmy Johnson are two of my heroes and influences, so it's not entirely coincidental I chose the Standard Omega body, and fretless neck. The idea of course, wasn't as much to make a copy, but a respectful hat-tip to the inspirations, while being 100% "my signature" bass, both aesthetically and electronically. *I should also acknowledge, Joey's Big Red Spoiler and Rusty's Blue Orca Series II Europa had a lot to do with me coming to the conclusion that if at all possible, I should build *exactly* what I want. Those two basses are sort of at opposite ends of the Alembic spectrum, but no less than perfect for those guys, and no less amazing in fit and finish. | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 675 Registered: 9-2009 |
Love the body shape and the Orion headstock. I don't know if your'e one of larger brutes that plays an Alembic but being on the small size myself at Mica's suggestion I had a 3/4 body done up for my 32 custom. Both the lighter weight and the smaller body size have worked out wonderfully for me (but then again I'm 5'8" 155 lbs. and you may be 6'4" and 220. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2014 |
I think it's either going to be the Orion or Elan headstock but either in reverse, so that it would be strung 2+3, or at least the hole pattern flipped, placing the post for the B string a little further back from the nut. I actually did think about that 3/4 size Omega body, but mostly for the aesthetic appeal. (IIRC, the J.J. Sig. is a 3/4 body) Being of average build, I'm okay with basses a little on the heavy side, balance being the greater issue for me than total weight, But shoot, I don't notice much of a balance issue with the Persuader 5 where most do. | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1668 Registered: 11-2004 |
There are some fantastic 3/4 sized body basses here on the forum- Olie has a really beautiful spalted maple topped 3/4 bass that I remember having the Omega, but I can't seem to locate it in the showcase section right now.... I vote for the Orion or Elan peghead with that body shape, but I'm not a huge fan of the cone, so I'll admit my bias  EDIT- I found at least a picture of Olie's 3/4 spalted maple bass. Good shot too, because it shows the body size difference compared to the other big bodied basses- [link] (Message edited by tbrannon on March 09, 2015) (Message edited by adriaan on March 09, 2015) | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 300 Registered: 6-2014 |
Haven't updated in a while, but I have been nose-to-th'-grindstone on making this dream thread actually happen... was just talking to Mica the other day, about something unrelated, and afterward realized this could happen sooner rather than later. I sure don't wanna' be the guy that changed his mind after the Mothership's band-saw was done. =) So I left off with headstock patterns and wood selections... Thanks in part to Flip's skills, I have been able to visualize what each looks like with the Standard Omega body, and I am very drawn to the Orion 3+2. Not settled yet, but it's ahead of the Spoiler Cone if only by a nose. Honestly, neither would be a regrettable choice. On top wood, <sigh>... I'm just gonna' have to toss a coin. I love the simple beauty of walnut or maple, but despite the inclination to go with a choice of native wood... dang, that vermilion is nice, and ages even nicer. One of those three for sure though. Here's another consideration - accent wood. (or not, depending) I like contrast... a darker top really stands out against the mahogany body with a lighter accent. Likewise, for a lighter top and darker accent. I must have spent 20 hours looking at various combinations... purpleheart accent under maple, maple accent under vermilion... I'm inclined to just choose a top wood and turn the Elves loose with the rest. They all look so incredible that again, you couldn't go wrong either way. I've had an idea for one single inlay at the very end of the sidelined fretless fingerboard... it would be the one small personalizing touch I would add to an otherwise simple bass. Since it would be a defining feature, I'm going to let the idea percolate a while longer. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 360 Registered: 6-2014 |
Another edit to the "Dream" thread is about due... I've been giving some thought to weight and balance, and a couple suggestions on the 3/4 body. After some more reading and a survey thread, I'm thinking a good compromise might be the Anniversary Model Omega. It's scaled down some from the full-size Standard, but larger than 3/4. The idea came from another Club member who has AM-008 for sale in the Swap Shop... (might be the only five-string AM) I loved the proportions, even on the long scale. The day that one came up was one of the weakest moments... had it been fretless or 32" scale this thread might've been moot! And I've decided to go pre-1980 style with the body laminates... top and back, but no accents or pinstripes. Possibly with a different top and back laminate. I also favor the earlier (?) Omega cut over the full cup-holder - kind of a half Omega. No resolve on headstock pattern, but still leaning towards 3+2 Orion. I'm inclined towards a cocobolo or rosewood laminate on both outer faces, regardless of top wood choice. The inlay idea I had is a pretty sure thing, though it may end up in the back of the headstock rather than the fingerboard end. Either way, it's very small, won't be a make-or-break thing. I'm about 70% of the goal now I guess... this may actually be harder than the wait that I hope is coming. For now there's a steady stream of gigs, and an alarming size pile-up of work in my shop that should put me over soon. | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1687 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think you're doing it right in terms of waiting and thinking long and hard about details. I did the same thing with my custom build I had done and was so glad I did it the way I did it. I went through a thousand ideas before I settled and then I just let it sit for awhile to make sure it was really what I wanted. I'd also suggest talking to Mica or Susan or even giving an educated dealer a call to discuss. If you haven't decided already, I'd recommend giving Will Gunn a call. He had some fantastic insight and ideas when I was in the planning stages. Also- the no accent laminations is a great look. I had it done on the Elan I built.  | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 361 Registered: 6-2014 |
Thanks Toby, and you're 100% right... in addition to lengthy exchanges with several of the folks in here, I have talked (briefly) with both Mica & Susan, as well as an educated dealer. I just didn't want to take up much of their time until it's time to pony up deposit and give the go-ahead. At that point, I'll be driving them all crazy! =) | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 705 Registered: 9-2009 |
I'd second Toby with respect to giving Will a call. He's always ready to discuss Alembic basses and after having several lengthily discussions with him prior to putting in my orders for a custom Signature and a Further (through Will of course) I changed a wide number of characteristics of my orders. It's sound like you know what you want, but Will will be able to help you explore other possibilities you might not have considered as well as let you know how the choices you have made are going to impact the sound and playability of your custom creation. For the bass I ended up ordering I made the following changes based on my discussions with Will: reduced to a 3/4 body size; made changes to the neck recipe (adding some ebony); adjusted the neck shape; added a Fatboy in the bridge position; and switched from a short to medium scale. I don;t regret making any of the changes Will suggested nor listening to his advice as to what not to add since it wouldn't influence playability or sound. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3668 Registered: 10-2002 |
don't forget, once you've made up your mind you'll have to rearrange your choices once you see the monthly special :-) Graeme. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 362 Registered: 6-2014 |
Ha! We're in mind-meld, Graeme and I... =) Yeah, I keep a close check on that page. This month's special: http://www.alembic.com/info/special.html Two-for-one specials, (well, they're all pretty sweet!) but of all custom options I don't care for, LED's just don't do it for me. I like seeing them on you guys' basses, <sigh> they're just not for me. (not even free ones) FWIW, I spec'd sidelines, and brass side dots. It's just what I'm used to I guess. p.s. - Will Gunn is indeed encyclopedic. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1659 Registered: 2-2011 |
Gregory, I used to think the side LED's were just bling until I got mine & now I can't live without them! My Europa has silver rings around the LED's so I can see the markers with or without the LED's turned on. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2028 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rusty is right, side LEDs are indeed very cool. I miss them from my SI that I sold to Pierre-Yves. The front LEDs are just bling, although they were fun, but the side LEDs are very useful and I wish my Starfire had them. | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 490 Registered: 11-2011 |
Not the same as an original install, but if your Bass doesn't have installed lights these have worked pretty well on my Distillate. https://fretfx.com | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 369 Registered: 6-2014 |
Thanks for the advice and comments fellas. I will keep an open mind... the LED's are cool, just aren't much of a priority. To the good side - I just had a few much-needed days off work. I had gigs lined up on Saturday & Sunday, but the bookends of the Holiday weekend I was able to spend some un-interupted time in my shop and managed to clear out three set-ups on upright basses I had been putting off for the past month. Also knocked out a wall-hanger banjo project for an old friend. About a month ago, I bought 8 cellos in various states of repair offa' the local Craigslist, so I went through all them scavenging hardware and parts from the poor-conditioned ones, and triaged the ones to be fixed for resale... I'll be fixing two, maybe three of them, the rest will end up as decor/artwork. I'm hoping to sell all the ebony and rosewood parts/hardware to another repair shop to cover my initial investment. All of which = $$$ towards the Custom Build. =) I dreamed up what might seem a(nother) nutty idea the other night... purely in the spirit of vintage/retro vibe, I thought about asking if the battery box could be located for front access, under the strings and right between the pickups, like the earliest Series' were. Brass cover of course. I don't recall seeing on these pages anyone doing that... in a practical sense, it might free up a little room in the control cavity for a front-mounted jack, plus all the EMW wiring. (isn't EMW usually side-jacked?) I dunno... maybe it's too far-fetched. | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1689 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think that would be a cool retro look to have the brass battery cover. When I was planning my Elan, I got a quote for getting a hammered brass pickguard built (something similar to what Keavin has on #12). I ended up scrapping the plan in the long run- I got the ebony stringer instead of the brass pickguard. Anyhow- I think it'd be a cool idea and depending on how retro or decorative you want to make it, I'm sure Alembic could come up with some cool treatment for the brass (hammered, textured/cast, etc) | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1736 Registered: 5-2006 |
EMW + front mounted jack would be no problem, here's my Orion's cavity: (layout has been changed slightly since this pic and the yellow wires are re-attached) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 8533 Registered: 6-2000 |
Note that front-mounted jacks take up WAY less real estate that side-mounted ones. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 393 Registered: 6-2014 |
Just got my revised quote last night... save a couple small details that may change, this is pretty much how it will go: Medium-scale (32") 5-string. Classic taper neck w/3 purpleheart laminates, possibly slimmed a bit a the nut. Fretless w/sidelines & bronze dots. East-Meets-West electronics w/3-position Q-switch, AXY pickup in neck position, and Fatboy at bridge. (location TBD) Jack on front rather than side. Anniversary Model Omega Body. More of a "U" Omega-cut. Mahogany core, with Birdseye Maple top & back laminates. No accents or pinstripes. Polished brass Bird tailpiece, no bridge block. Brass truss-rod cover & backplate. *Truss rod cover may be surface mounted. 3+2 Elan headstock pattern, slimmed for weight and aligned for straight-pull. Also w/Rosewood or Cocobolo veneers. Bronze logo (& script?) surface mounted. Battery access on top, between pickups, w/brass cover, surface mounted. Custom inlay at 25th fret position (TBD later) Having met the preset goal of banking 75% of the cost before placing the order, the "Dream" is now within reach. Barring tragedy, I hope to roll with it in the next couple weeks. As this thread draws to a close, I just want to thank all you guys (and girls!) again for the helpful advice and guidance. Thanks also for putting up with my rambling (often goofy, stream-of-conscious-thought-style) posts... you folks are the best! | ||
| mtjam
Advanced Member Username: mtjam Post Number: 314 Registered: 11-2011 |
Sounds like a winner! You guys really fuel my craving for a custom build! | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1686 Registered: 2-2011 |
Gregory, I'm sure you have already thought of this, but with the battery access under the strings, if the battery dies at a gig having to remove the strings to change the battery will take much longer. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Advanced Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 395 Registered: 6-2014 |
I did think of that Rusty, so I did a little experiment on my Persuader to see how practical (or impractical) it would be to change out a weak battery on the fly. (keeping in mind, my bass would only have one 9v battery) If the cavity for the battery tray is positioned so that the battery is installed laying on it's flatest side rather than vertically, it should work very well. To better visualize, here's a picture of my experiment - note how the battery would almost slide under the B-string without even loosening it.   All told, it might actually be faster to change out a battery this way than by removing the backplate, simply because there's only two screws involved here. The motivation of course, wasn't really based on just making it easier to change batteries... it's a hat-tip to the earliest models. (take a look at Wolf's #73-32 in the showcase... that's what I was aiming for) Ironically, back then batteries used to be mainly for backup power, and only lasted a short time. But you Series guys knew that already. =) I put it in the quote first of all, just to see if it was possible, (from a builder's standpoint) and secondly, to see if it would be a prohibitively expensive option. Certainly I could do without it just fine... wouldn't be a deal-breaker. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1687 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hopefully it will never die at a gig so you won't have to change it on the fly. I'm sure you are like the rest of us & change your batteries on a schedule, so you can just change the battery when you change strings one time. I played my Europa on the batteries today for the 1st time since I picked it up from Guitar Rez. I was pressed for time & didn't have my DS-5 set up, so I just used the 1/4" jack. Probably a good idea for me to use it from time to time to keep the corrosion down. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 11795 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sounds great Greg! It will be a unique instrument; and I've seen some really nice Birdseye come out of the shop recently. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 402 Registered: 6-2014 |
I hear Mica has quite an eye for the birdseye. =) Seriously, I'm just going to let the Elves surprise me on the wood selections. It may be the only random thing about this bass. (from my perspective that is) I'm hoping to deposit the last check in the music account tomorrow or Friday... then it's time to make the call | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 515 Registered: 11-2011 |
Curious Greg, why no sustain (bridge) block? The East West electronics do look intriguing. Pete | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 403 Registered: 6-2014 |
Ummm... I don't have the firsthand experience to know for sure, but in thinking about it, it just seemed like adding a bridge block to the 3-purpleheart neck lams, and neck thru construction on a fretless bass might be overkill. If you have thoughts otherwise, I'd be all ears. =) On E-M-W, (with added 3-position Q-switch) for what I'm going to be doing, it's the most logical thing I can think of... reasonably easy to dial in what I need. Someone posted on another thread East-Meets-West is very much like Distillate controls, but with rotary Bass & Treble boost/cut. Being very much a rudimentary player, I do very little soloing, zero slapping, and I'm not much of a twiddler, just set my amp pretty much flat, a touch louder than I need to be, and do the rest with with my controls or by adjusting right-hand attack, in short, I'm just keeping time and trying to play something interesting while disappearing into the rhythm section of whatever is being played. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3676 Registered: 10-2002 |
my fretless rogue has 3 P/h neck lams and a bridge block and it sounds superb. Sustains forever but also gives each note a definite presence. 'Mwah' is also great so long as I don't raise the bridge too far. Graeme | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 516 Registered: 11-2011 |
Greg, The sustain block is a curiosity to me as well. On one hand if you ever seen or held one you will be instantly impressed. Basically you have a precisely fitted chunk of solid brass that fits perfectly in the bass under a brilliant solid brass bridge! All that weight has to be doing something. It has to be isolating the string vibrations in some form of physics. Others with more knowledge will chime in on this I hope. Funny of the 3 Alembics (Series 1 short scale, Distillate and Persuader) I've owned, the Persuader I felt had the longest sustain, without a block. Go figure? The Distillate and the Persuader were the closest in build makeup of woods, scale the Distillate having the block. Anyway I was asking because you specifically leaving it out? As a Distillate owner I can say they are beautiful sounding Basses and I cant say enough how I appreciate the ease of use and the incredible variations of tone that can be had. Looking forward in the evolution of your build journey! Pete | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 404 Registered: 6-2014 |
Really, the best info I had to go on was my Persuader five-string with 3 purpleheart laminates... that was a key feature I was trying to replicate in this build in hopes of a similar result. I'm comfortable with the amount of sustain, sans bridge block, which is significantly more than other basses I have with bolt-in or set necks. That said, a couple more ounces of brass located at that end of the bass may be advantageous from a balance perspective. On the other hand, it's only a couple ounces... might be better served by lightening the other end. | ||
| moongerm
Advanced Member Username: moongerm Post Number: 217 Registered: 8-2013 |
Having a sustain block I believe is more desired generally speaking. I prefer having it over my Spoiler 5 which does not have it. I don't believe it will have any effect on balance as the thickness, width of the neck profile (along with adding ultralight tuners) will affect overall balance along with the upper horn style. Then again there are advantages to having a bass that sits more towards three o'clock that is if the high register is more your voice. This is where Alembicitis comes into play, can never have more than one ha! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 405 Registered: 6-2014 |
I'm open to it. One of the things I took away from the last extended conversation with Mica on this bass... there's a LOT of things to think about when you're doing this. This might be a subject of one last call. I really appreciate the input guys! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 11804 Registered: 5-2002 |
When Bob did his custom build a few years back, he had blocks of different materials, one of which I think was Ebony. His intent was to experiment with the different blocks, but I don't recall that he ever posted any results from the experiment. But if you're going to be talking to Mica about whether to go with a block or not, you might want to ask her about alternative block materials. Of course, at some point it can be a bit difficult to keep track of all the variables you're considering in your head. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 407 Registered: 6-2014 |
The wheels are in motion folks... I sent the deposit today. There may be some tweaks along the way, (for instance bridge block added or neck carve) but for the most part, it's down to the waiting part now. I'll keep this thread active until the FTC thread starts up, so keep the advice coming. Once again, thanks so much guys! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 408 Registered: 6-2014 |
Funny story... like I was saying - those of you who have done this know, there's a lot of tiny details to think about when planning a custom build. Seriously, you lay awake nights thinking about it. (at least I have) So, I was in the middle of a set last night, setting up for my one gratuitous solo in Robert Johnson's "Last Fair Deal Gone Down", I reached down to tap the Q-switch and twist the Filter a little on my Persuader... and suddenly realized, in all this process and thought on vintage features, it never once occurred to me to specify classic "hat" knobs. So I gotta fix that. =) Just the first of what I'm sure will be many things I forgot about. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 11809 Registered: 5-2002 |
Another testament to the enduring legacy of Robert Johnson. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 422 Registered: 6-2014 |
So I've caught both Mica and Susan by phone at opportune moments in the past week, just for brief conversation on final details. Busy girls, they.=) We're getting to the good part now, as Ms. W. herself tells me construction will start up later this month. Mica asked if I'd like to do an FTC thread, to which I say "of course". I've had so much fun and drawn lots of inspiration from watching/reading those threads from you guys here... maybe someone else will read mine sometime. I think the only pages I've spent more time on is the Showcase threads, especially the Series I pages. (which is where a lot of the ideas for this bass came from) Of course I've drawn from the whole experience here, but special hat-tips go out to: Flip - the original Alembic D-I-Y adviser Will - the Alembic encyclopedia guy Rusty's Blue Orca Joey's Big Red Spoiler Keith's Orion Nebula Wayne's Anniversary Model 5-string #008 Wolf's #73-32 Series I SSB Rob's #73-39 Standard Point Jimmy J's long-lost #76-418 5-string J. McVie's "continuously fretted" Series bass Last but not least, my own Persuader 5-string #5559... without the members of this board and the staff at Alembic who helped me put it back "right" last year, I probably wouldn't be here today. Well, I guess that's about it folks... see you all on the Build Thread. Thanks Again for all your help! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4308 Registered: 5-2009 |
Gregory Thanks ! I am intrigued to see what will be ! Wolf | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2456 Registered: 9-2002 |
IF it were me: I'm as old-school Alembic as they come, but I would not want the battery in front. I wanna see wood, and nobody has wood like Alembic. Get gold keys, matches the brass hardware better to my eyes. Put the three on the bass side, it looks dorky with two on top and three on the bottom. Get two FatBoys, and put the bridge one with a little 'breathing room' between it and the bridge, similar to the Jazz Activator in the picture above. You need that spacing for tone, believe me, unless you really want a spike-y, clackety top end, which this thread would not lead me to believe. It's of course going to be bright regardless, but every little bit of distance from the bridge saddles will tend to warm it up a little. I wouldn't stay awake nights about the sustain block, either. Deluxe laminates plus the ebony board is mucho sustain, and I'd hazard a guess that without frets, it'll go even a bit longer still. MUST have Witch Hats. A 'vintage' touch I wish I'd remembered: The little ebony spacer beneath the bird tailpiece. I'd countersink the truss rod plate . . . . You can NOT go wrong with a maple/mahogany/deluxe laminates menu for an all-rounder. Coco and ebony are grand, but they begin to get a little pointy-sounding with those dark heavy woods. On the other hand, I played one, and if I could overlook the weight, it really was the living end, but would really, really require a commensurate amp rig to fully convey it. And for gosh sakes, WHEN you get it, DON'T start a thread about how your driven to a higher plain of existence by how beautifully it 'mwah's ! ! ! I can tell you that Susan is utterly psychic when it comes to transferring what you told her to a finished instrument. You WILL be dumbfounded, she's just the best. That's my 2 cents, and as always, that's about what my opinion is worth. YRMV. Joey | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2014 |
I love your posts Joey! I think we must think a lot alike too. Ditto on the mwaah thread. I've been an upright player for going on 30 years, and I'm over it... I'd actually never heard of mwaah until I started playing (fretless) bass guitar. =) I didn't think about the wood spacer under the bird either... hmmm. I did however insist on old style hat knobs, and ultimately decided to skip the sustain block, mostly for the reasons you've listed. And we spec'd a FatBoy pickup, but for the bridge only. This bass is getting maple top and back lams over a mahogany core (like your Big Red Spoiler has) except I went with birdseye maple, and an Anniversary Omega body, which is in between the Standard and 3/4 sized. We did finally decide on a narrowed/straight-pull 3+2 Elan headstock, with cocobolo front and back veneers. Probably wont talk me down offa' the old school battery box though! According to Will G. they didn't recall having done that before, so in a strange way, my bass will have a feature unique to all but the early PF-5 equipped ones. I take your point on the wood, but oddly, I'm hoping Ms. W. picks out some plainer wood for the top and back. I love the look of those early Alembics, where the figured wood was a little less dramatic. Somewhere in California, they must be wondering about this nut in Virginia who likes plain wood and retro touches to a fault! In the spirit of a patience-building exercise, I haven't actually talked to Mica or her Mom for a couple months now, so I don't really know what progress there is yet, just that this build is in the queue. Maybe I'll give them a call and see... don't want to bug 'em when they're workin'! =) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2457 Registered: 9-2002 |
When I had my Elan built, once we got everything spec'd, I consciously made the decision for no FTC thread, and I never once called them to inquire. I would see all those FTC threads where people were up nights and worrying them to death about little stuff. You and me both know that it's not a continuous, production line operation in a small shop, so I thought I'd leave them the hell alone (I'm always amazed that people wonder why they can't get them on the phone at any time or why it sometimes takes a while to get an EMail returned). So around 11 months later, I got it, it's exactly what I told them, and all that without once talking to anybody there. Mine wasn't their first rodeo, so let 'em do what they do so well. Simple. But, that's just me . . . . I will say, that to this day, after a lifetime of looking at inline, Fender-style heads, it's still the strangest thing to look down the neck and see a bent-like-Gibson-downangle inline headstock ! Joey | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2014 |
Yeah, I'm with you on thou shalt not hassle... I won't be that guy. There were just a couple details we were still working on, and there was a draft of something I was supposed to look at. Minor details all, but eventually critical. I'll catch up with them one afternoon. I sometimes forget about your green Elan... hadn't realized it was a custom too. | ||
| moongerm
Advanced Member Username: moongerm Post Number: 285 Registered: 8-2013 |
Looking forward to seeing what's cooking for you Gregory. All will be right rest assured. -Brian | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2010 |
Cletus wanted me to remind you that even if you don't use a stand or forget your guitar is in the back of your pickup when you haul firewood, you got options you ain't even thought of. He calls this his "stein and burger conversion."  | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2010 |
Greg, I didn't realize that we couldn't edit, or better yet delete, pre-coffee brain farts after an hour, or I would have. It's The weekend and the Foghorn is decidedly Scottish today. I apologize for channeling Cletus in here for a cheap laugh and forgetting to delete it right away. Your bass is a work of sculpture and it's been a privilege to watch you glide through the decision making process from the unique perspective of a fellow bassist and craftsman. I'm continually reminded of a quote from a book called "Does It Matter" by Alan Watts: "Among the hippies, I know makers of musical instruments - lutes and guitars - that, for delicate ivory inlays and excellence of grain and texture, are as lovely as any works of the Italian Renaissance. ..." http://www.beezone.com/alanwatts/moneyversuswealth/moneyvswealth.html We know who he was talking about. Especially given our mutual love for spending evenings with our arms around a warm upright bass, a perspective few of our fellow bassists appreciate. So when I discovered to my horror that I couldn't exorcize Cletus from your beautiful thread, it's like being caught in the glare of monks with torches, taking a crap on the Sistine Chapel floor. And all I have to offer by way of apology is that I'm a married man, and trust it will suffice. I was just trying to make you laugh. Is that a bad thing nowadays? We play such bombastic instruments, y'know. Sometimes when you crash and burn at a volume that could pulverize concrete blocks, it can be pretty damn offensive. I've missed a turnaround and had a whole dance floor full of people stop and flail about like trout, and every scowling drunk in the room turn their bloodshot eyes toward me. Many, many times, I'm afraid. I call those kinds of unexpected extremes "dynamics." They kinda perform the same function as that "DEEP" button on that behemoth Ampeg SVT monolith I sacrificed my lumbar to. I used to look at that thing in the middle of a song and go; "if I push that at this volume, it'll knock the whole front row over. Oh, what the hell. [crash, screams.]" I believe a certain aspect of that thing that makes us bassists is mastery of the DYNAMICS of the damn thing. And it's especially true of this bass, your work of art. Bravo, sir. Godspeed. My favorite thing about this place is that it's about learning excellence. I open my Alembic's road case and instead of taking it out immediately, I always stand back up and pause, just to look at it. I can't help it. Every other guitar I just take out of the case while I'm there. You know what I'm talking about here. In a hurry to spank the plank to make that twine whine. Not with my Alembic. It's that thing that happens when you hook it up to powerful amps that make big speakers pump like bass drums, and add a good drummer. The drummer is essential. With the right one(s), it's the single greatest experience of my life. The thing I like doing more than anything else. I believe the same is true for you. My 7th grade music teacher, Mr. Southworth, said that Beethoven asked potential students one question, for which he would only accept one answer. The most important thing was that the reply must flow from their mouths like water, without hesitation. Beethoven's question was; "why do you want to play music?" The only answer he'd accept was; "because I have to." Ever since Mr. Southworth told me that, I've just doggedly pursued playing bass. Because I have to. I can tell you do, too. I suggest you get Thomastik Spirocore strings for your upright before you retire your left arm. I was absolutely delighted to discover that Stanley Clarke uses them, and he doesn't even know me! The "rope core" is made from a secret Austrian formula - I'd tell you more if I could - wrapped in some kind of indestructible metallic Bavarian ribbon stuff. They're unbelievably flexible and yet ballsy, with a nice, flatulent lower register you can pump like a heartbeat. That was one of the reasons I posted the video of him playing Bach, to hear them for yourself, as well as witnessing a musical high water mark. I bought mine purely by accident, at an old music store that looked like a set for "Hoarders." They could have been anything, but they turned out to be something that made me strive for excellence. Sorry about the floor. I'll get a bucket and mop. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2014 |
No sweat Ed_Zep... this thread was kinda' history until Joey popped in. I just used it to think out loud for the past year trying to figure out what *my* signature Alembic should be. One of Joey's Alembics was a heavy influence on that. Eventually Mica will start an FTC (factory-to-customer) thread on my build. *I used to use TI Spirocores, but got hooked on Pirastro "Obligato" strings about a decade ago. They are just a tad more flexible than the TI's, but still got enough presence to hang in a mix when played pizz. They are also outrageously expensive enough that I don't change them until absolutely necessary. (i.e.- broke or about to break) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2461 Registered: 9-2002 |
A LOT of fiddle players here swear by Pirastro or Savarez. Pirastros are one of the few things on par or better for some than the mighty TI's. I always complain about the cost of strings vs. guitar players. When I think about what a good upright set runs, I shut the hell up. Joey | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2014 |
Well, I got the heads-up email from the Head Elf yesterday evening... sometime tomorrow, we're to iron out the first set of critical details, as they are apparently ready to start the build. Terribly exciting! I guess I've read every build thread on this forum over the past few months, and mine will pale in comparison to some of the unbelievable works they've turned out. The beauty (in the eye of this beholder at least) is in the deliberately simple, classic design. Some might even say spartan by current Alembic standards. Thanks Again to All here. I couldn't, and probably wouldn't have done it without your advice. |
