| Author | Message | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1464 Registered: 1-2005 |
A few years ago I picked up this (factory) fretless Guild M-85 II. The M-85 is kind of a confusing model - the earlier ones released in the late-'60s were semi-hollowbody and most had Bi-Sonics, the later ones from 1970+ were solidbodies and had the Guild humbucker. Mine is an early specimen of the latter, I believe from about 1970-1971:  It's a great bass, but the pickups are a bit underwhelming. It sounded alright once I ran it through my SF-2: https://soundcloud.com/stanleylighthead/walk-right-through-your-door But it would be nice to get a nice clear, deep sound right off the bat. Some kind of Bi-Sonic clone would be one option (Dark Stars having vanished it would have to be something like Chi-Sonics), but the Dave Schools Starfire I has me jonesing for Alembic of course! Could Anniversary or Signature electronics fit? Or just go Activator? For the time being I plan on sticking with the bridge assembly as is - it kinds of works with the fretless - though really Alembicizing the instrument is an interesting idea too. Please note, this really is just dreaming, this is kind of low on the priority scale - I just don't play enough fretless to warrant it, plus there are other projects like having my doubleneck brought back to Bass VI territory - but it's fun to imagine! (Message edited by hieronymous on March 15, 2015) | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 940 Registered: 9-2008 |
Guild makes a Bi Sonic pickup now, not sure how they sound but they are ok bestbassgear.com for $99 each so it couldn't hurt to try them. Also Curtis Novak makes a Dark Star pickup but those are $275 each but sound incredible(I have one in a Hollowbody bass I made) ~Taylor | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2172 Registered: 2-2005 |
I guess the place to start would be to determine what the dimensions of the pickup and control cavities are. Also what are the diameter of the pot mounting holes. Just a cursory look at the picture would lead me to believe Anniversary/Signature electronics are worth considering as most of the holes already exist and seem to have a lot of room between them. Can't say on the pickups but Alembic does offer a few options. You might also want to consider EMW with the current 5 hole layout it would only require one more for a Q-switch/control. Keith | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1466 Registered: 1-2005 |
Taylor, I have looked at the Curtis Novak pickups a while back online but couldn't remember the name - thanks! (Haha, in fact, I started a thread on them a few years ago - totally forgot that! http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/166239.html?1372194318) I personally would go for one Curtis Novak pickup - don't know anything about the Guild reissues - are they faithful designs or something totally different under the hood? I don't hang around the Guild forum that I used to so I'm not up on the most current knowledge... :p Keith, you make some great suggestions. I still need to experiment more with my Stanley Clarke bass with Anniversary electronics, but I've really been favoring just the neck pickup. So I am open to the idea of just replacing one pickup and leaving the other alone, maybe even just disconnect it (the bridge pickup). I always plan on stringing this bass with flats so I just don't think I need the brightness that the bridge pickup provides, though of course in conjunction with the neck pickup it does really change the sound... The really important question is - do I want to be able to return it as stock as it was when I got it? It's in very good shape, but was missing the truss rod cover and original pickup selector bat - in fact, I wonder if the whole switch hasn't been replaced, the Guild bat is silver and very distinctive, not sure if it fits on a standard Gibson shaft which is what is on mine. But I think I would go Anniversary since that is what I am most comfortable with. EMW definitely sounds interesting, but I really like to set the bass outside of the instrument - I use a lot of effects, and prefer to tone sculpt the final signal instead of the signal before the effects. Of course, the coolest thing would be to have a project where I can use the bass regardless of what pickups are in it! What I really need to do is sell off stuff that I am not using... | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1941 Registered: 5-2002 |
Alembic pickups and electronics would be the way to go, especially yummy with the fretless! My 02c. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1476 Registered: 1-2005 |
Agreed Edwin, it's a great bass as-is - with Alembic pickups/electronics it would be killer! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3986 Registered: 5-2009 |
A custom Alembic "Activator" kit with two discrete channels perhaps ? Volume / Filter & Volume /Filter ; wired with a stereo/mono switch. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3987 Registered: 5-2009 |
Also ; replacement of the existing pickup selector switch with a rotary Alembic type . As a "cherry on top," replacement of all the knobs with the popular Alembic/ Raytheon old style knobs. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3988 Registered: 5-2009 |
( double post correction ) (Message edited by sonicus on March 20, 2015) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3989 Registered: 5-2009 |
To go the " Whole nine yards " Alembic bridge & tail piece with brass block. If you set the tailpiece back further you will be able to use long scale strings. I have two short scale instruments set up as such . You will hear a difference with the alembic bridge and brass block. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1478 Registered: 1-2005 |
Excellent ideas Wolf! Double Activator sounds pretty intense! I think I would be satisfied with just standard two pickups with single volume/filter. Not sure that they do pickup selector switch with such an Activator setup though. I really like the idea of the rotating selector in the existing spot - I tend to hit the current switch by accident when I'm in the middle position. Are the old Raytheon style knobs different than the current witch-hats? Bridge & tailpiece would be cool too, but I kind of like the current setup with flatwounds and fretless. If it was fretted I would definitely be more inclined to replace the harp bridge. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3990 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hello Harry , In " old " Raytheon/ Hat knobs " I am just referring to the standard old non collet Alembic knobs . (Message edited by sonicus on March 20, 2015) | ||
| zomnius
Junior Username: zomnius Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2013 |
hi, great idea, nice bass! If you get the alembic pickups in, I would like to get your Guild humbuckers.  | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1482 Registered: 1-2005 |
zomnius, are you on the hunt for Guild humbuckers? People are really divided on these, some love them, most seem to hate them! I'm kind of on the fence - they are very powerful, but also kind of blah sounding. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4009 Registered: 5-2009 |
Harry brings out a " note-worthy" point here in my opinion as well . What really surprised me was that Guild is selling their re-issue Bi Sonics as our friend Taylor points out in thread above ! Like WOW man !!!!!! LOL __ I am really tempted to install two of those in a long scale Epiphone EB-3 that a friend of mine layed on me a while ago. I was thinking of also instaling an Alembic Strato Blaster ! Instant LESH 1970? That was a great sound . Add the Mcintosh 3500 amps , Alembic F2B ( or preamp out from Fender Dual showman) , Sunn Cabs with JBL K140 's and there we have it ? Peter is that correct ???? Calling Cosmic Cowboy our equipment historian ! (Message edited by sonicus on March 25, 2015) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1955 Registered: 5-2002 |
Add Pyramid Gold flats. But I think that the short scale adds to the tone. I have a 60s shell of an EB bass waiting for this treatment, but it needs extensive finish work before it's ready to start the routing and wiring. I have all the parts (including the Showman and Sunn w/JBLs) but not the time. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4010 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin , Yes indeed , The Pyramid Gold Flats . I have a few sets in my stash , Both Long Scale and Short . I think those strings added quite a bit to " That " sound to that we both know and can identify ! I know you like it too . Wolf . | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1961 Registered: 5-2002 |
I do, indeed! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1483 Registered: 1-2005 |
Wolf, I haven't done any digging but I am very suspicious of the new Bi-Sonic that Guild is marketing. $99 apiece apparently. I dug a little and came up with this thread from Let's Talk Guild. I don't like to be negative but I personally wouldn't expect much from them. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4013 Registered: 5-2009 |
Harry _____@ $99.00 a piece is cheap in deed , Perhaps in sound as well ! As you say . However my plunge router is already smiling to do some work ! They even offer a router template . How nice of them . The experimental cadaver body might be an Epiphone long scale EB -3 . Not a Vintage 60's Gibson. I have to sleep on this anyway . Wolf . | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4014 Registered: 5-2009 |
( wrong thread) (Message edited by sonicus on March 25, 2015) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4015 Registered: 5-2009 |
( server anomaly) (Message edited by sonicus on March 25, 2015) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1962 Registered: 5-2002 |
I say go for it! But you know me. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4016 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin , I think those new Guild BI -Sonics , must be at least, a bit better then those Epiphone EB-3 pickups , I would think ( hopefully). I seem to have so many irons in the fire ! LOL ___ If nothing else , Mr. Plunge Router will have had his dinner ! Wolf | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1963 Registered: 5-2002 |
And if nothing else, you'll have excellent holes routed for Dark Stars, Curtis Novaks, or even Alembics! My suspicions about the new Bisonics is that their resistance is so low compared to the old ones, but that doesn't really mean anything. You just don't know until you get them in there. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1484 Registered: 1-2005 |
Wolf, you would actually be doing everyone a great service! Could you record the bass with the current stock pickups, then record it under similar conditions with the Guild Bi-Sonics? I'll have to do that with mine b/n the humbuckers and whatever gets put in! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4017 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin , Yes I agree . Harry , Ok,I can do a before & after recording. I have a feeling that ," before" may end up to be much sooner then ,"after". Wolf | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1487 Registered: 1-2005 |
Despite teaching class in the morning and a dying car battery, I made it up to Santa Rosa today:  Details to be worked out, but this bass will be Alembicized to some extent! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1968 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ah, the infamous couch! | ||
| moonliner
Advanced Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 311 Registered: 12-2004 |
I have one of Curtis Novak's BiSonics in a Jerry Jones bass. It's very fat and warm sounding. I don't have much luck with it on tunes that need a quick attack, but for everything else it's pretty special. I'm intrigued to see Guild has reissued the BiSonic for $99. At that price it's very tempting to try. The Novak one I got has the coil tap to go from vintage to Dark Star specs. The lower output setting is the one I use most. I put anniversary electronics in my Starfire that Alembic finished for me a few months ago. It's a potent and versatile package for sure. I look forward to seeing what you do with this lovely bass! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1494 Registered: 1-2005 |
Hey moonliner - thanks for stopping in! Your Starfire is a sight to behold - definitely part of the road that I am traveling now. Your Curtis Novak Bi-Sonic sounds very cool! Would love to see a pic - I've never owned a Jerry Jones bass - is it the Danelectro kind of thing? Sounds like an interesting axe! | ||
| moonliner
Advanced Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Harry, Thanks! I'm really thrilled with how the Starfire turned out. Yes, the Jerry Jones basses I have are Danelectro longhorn remakes. Well built, lightweight, short scale… and weird looking! :-) My main longhorn is cooper burst. I found this aqua burst on ebay a few months ago and thought I'd use it to test the Novak Bi-sonic.  | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1501 Registered: 1-2005 |
I seem to remember seeing a picture of Jimmie Vaughan playing a 6-string Longhorn, maybe on the inside of the SRV double live album - I always thought they were cool - that one is supercharged! |
