| Author | Message | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2004 |
Not for dishes...but for speakers... What are the different sonic properties of a 4x10 vs a 2x12 when used for guitar? | ||
| pace
Advanced Member Username: pace Post Number: 213 Registered: 4-2004 |
I always felt that an open back 4x10" had a bottom end that was more "in focus"~ whatever that means..... I guess its really all apples & oranges until you run the same head thru the same brand 10s" & 12s" with cabs of similar construction & materials.... I've never been able to A/B a silverface Quad next to a silverface Twin, so wtf do I know...... | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hmmm... Well, I'm thinking now about having Sultone build a 2x12 and a 4x10 with Tone Tubby speakers in them. Ultimately this will be used as a stereo setup with an F-2B. I'm getting ready to order the first of the two cabinets, and was just curious which one would be best as a stand alone until I can get the second one. I currently play through a 4x10 Fender Bassman, and have been pretty happy with it. Perhaps I'll go with the 4x10 to start. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3432 Registered: 5-2002 |
If you go with the Sultone's, what woods are you thinking of using? | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2004 |
I was thinking a mahogany/maple composite. Either that, or all mahogany. I had an all maple guitar once, and it was a little bright for my taste, so I imagine that an all maple cab would be similar...as much as a guitar and a cab can be similar.  | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3444 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think wood cabs just look good! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1095 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've ordered a custom vertical, convertible, (open/closed back), switchable, (4/8/16 ohms; mono/stereo), 2x12 unloaded cab from Cas at Tone-tools. I'm having it constructed with bubinga and a cane front to match my boogie. http://www.tone-tools.com/ Bill, tgo | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2004 |
Blast! Bill, that website just made me unsure of what I'm doing. Have to rethink the whole darn thing now... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3450 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bill; I'm puzzled. The cab will have 2 speakers. If they are 8 ohm speakers and you run them parallel then you have a 4 ohm load. If you run them series then you have a 16 ohm load. But the 8 ohm choice is different. I suppose the 8 ohm choice means that just one speaker is being used. Or it could mean that there are two inputs available and that the speakers are kept separate and are fed by two channels from the same amp, or even separate amps. Am I close? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1097 Registered: 7-2004 |
Cas at Tone-Tools told me there is an electronic switch that does it all. I'm going to load it with some old JBL D120s that I've had for years and forgot all about until I recently discovered them again. They are indeed 8 ohms each. I plan to run them as an extension cab for my Boogie 1x12 combo. The Boogie has both 4 and 8 ohm outs. The people at Boogie have told me that matching the outs to the speaker ohms isn't really critical. Essentially, on the Mesa, I can try hooking up the cab to either the 4 or 8 ohm out and just go with what sounds better! I know this sounds all wrong, but that's what they told me, IIRC. Bill, tgo | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1776 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bill (TGO): Just my $0.02. That electronic impedance switch sounds great, but I'm wondering how it can "add" impedance? Unless it has real big power resistors and/or caps/chokes (i.e., an impedance network that can simulate a loudspeaker load AND dissipate the necessary power inputed to same), there's no way you're getting an 8ohm load with two 8ohm (nominal) speakers unless, as Dave suggests, you're only going to use one driver at a time. As stated before, the 4ohm and 16ohm (nominal) loads are easy to achieve with two 8ohm drivers. Conversely, you'd also need that network if you had two 16ohm drivers (like I do im my 2X12 Sultone cab, wired in parallel for an 8ohm nominal load) AND you wanted a 4ohm (nominal) load impedance. See if you can get a link to the company that makes the switch so we can all see what it is, please. If it really is all the Cas says it is, I'd be interested in one or two for my Sultone cab(s). FWIW, I don't know if I'd be so cavalier about using the proper output taps on the amp. There's a reason they're there and that reason is that tube amps usually use an output transformer to roughly match the load impedance to the output devices (power tubes). If you use the wrong tap, and cause excess current to flow like our fellow club member in another thread did with his Mesa (Grynchin aka Brandon), you may be looking at a melted xfmr or two, tubes, resistors, caps, and maybe part of a board. He found out the hard way that fuses don't necessarily save your amp. Personally, I'd be real careful RE: impedance matching with any tube amp when using a satellite cab or two. As I said, just my $0.02. Cheers, Kevin (Message edited by kmh364 on March 13, 2006) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1777 Registered: 9-2003 |
James: IMHO, You're right about the all-maple cab. Unless you have really dark-sounding drivers and/or amp or really want a super bright tone, I'd avoid all-maple. Mahogany is probably the most neutral (tone-wise) wood you can use. It'll impart warmth, but not overly so. If you want the best of both worlds (like a LP or some Alembics), use mahogany as the majority wood and add a little maple like I did with my 2X12 cab for a real nice sound. Be REAL careful if you're gonna order from Sultone. Bill is a great craftsman, but he's overwhelmed and takes forever if you don't badger him incessantly. I didn't and I'm still waiting for a cab I ordered (and PIF'd) a year-and-a-half ago!!! Don't PIF up-front like I did as well, LOL! I'm laughing, but I'm really p*ssed about the whole deal. Don't fall into the same hole I did. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1098 Registered: 7-2004 |
From the Mesa Boogie Mark III Manual: "SPEAKERS One 8-ohm and two 4-ohms jacks are provided. The Boogie is not very sensitive to speaker mismatches and will not be damaged by them except that very low ohmage loads will cause the power tubes to wear out faster." I agree this goes against what I've always been told, but it's their amp and they do seem to know what they're doing. As for the switch on my Tone-Tools cab, I'm not absolutely sure it includes the 8 ohms. When I talked to Cas he told me he had heard of such a thing and would pick one up for me. I don't believe he had used one before, so the info might not be 100% correct. Either way, it's going to be as flexible a cab as it can be. As for build time, Tone-Tools currently claims 30 days. We'll see. Bill, tgo | ||
| george_wright
Member Username: george_wright Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2005 |
Bill, since you're tgo, you probably didn't see the extended discussion of the ostensible impedance switch offered by Accugroove. When you have a spare weekend, start here. I don't know, of course, if the switch discussed at that link is the one you and Kevin are discussing above, but.... The 4/8 ohm switch hawked by Accugroove is found to be snakeoil. It affects DC resistance, but has negligible effects on AC at bass freqs---and, a fortiori, no effect at all at guitar freqs. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3456 Registered: 5-2002 |
George; interesting thread, thanks for the link! I did not even know that Accugroove had such a switch. I read about two of the eleven pages and figured I had the gist of the discussion (at that point, no new information was being provided by the posters). | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 |
Looking through the tone-tools website, I believe I'll probably go with them instead of Sultone. Kevin's story about Sultone's build time has sort of put me off. Bill, Let us know how your cab comes out, and if within the promised 30 days. James | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1784 Registered: 9-2003 |
It pains me to give Bill a black mark, as his work was excellent on my Straub cab. Thats's why I gave him the second order for the Twin cab. Unfortunately, I didn't realize until too late that Harry Straub had pushed Bill to deliver the cab all the way. Bill was confident that he would be done long before Harry had completed the amp, but it ended-up being the other way around. It was actually Harry's idea to use Sultone as he couldn't keep up with his orders and needed someone else to make me the cab. In subsequent conversations with Harry, it appears Bill has garnered a bunch of complaints due to the long lead time for delivery, despite promises for timely construction. I'm sure I don't know the whole story...Bill has apparently had some significant personal problems which has obviously affected his business...as well as a sharp increase in the orders he's had in the past. Regardless, no one should have to beg for their merchandise when it was paid for and promised (way) more than a year ago. I make this statement in confidence since Sultone has, at least according to reviews documented in Harmony-Central.com, made and delivered cabs in the period that my paid-in-full order sits unfulfilled. Too-numerous-to-count unanswered emails and wasted phone calls to a full voice mailbox have soured the taste in my mouth. The Tennessee BBB may be my next phone call. (Message edited by kmh364 on March 14, 2006) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 683 Registered: 9-2002 |
I really used to take the subject of the wood cabinets were made out of as esoterica beyond my understanding, aside from roadworthiness issues. Until I read an interview with Hartley Peavey regarding the development days of the 5150/Van Halen products. Hartley is hardly known for much respect for esoterica, but recounted as how he was utterly dumbstruck that Edward could hear the differences in wood type and bracing patterns and thicknesses in evaluating pre-production prototypes in blind tests where only Peavey and his deign engineers knew which were which. Guess I need more esoterica! J o e y | ||
| strangerones
Junior Username: strangerones Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2004 |
That's a good story Joey. I see that tone-tools work in Cocobolo. Wonder how well an all Cocobolo cab would work...or would you need to make it a composite of Cocobolo and some other tone wood... James |
