| Author | Message | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 240 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hello, for my next bass, I want a SC model, 32", exactly the same cotation (dimensions in french) as Stanley's model, Serie I, BUT with totally black wood (ebony or tinted vermillon) with maple stripes for body. For the neck, ebony and maple, brass and nuts specifications for tenor (085, 065, 045, 030) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1071 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think I asked the question about an alembic made almost completely out of ebony in here a few years ago. I was told it would be very heavy indeed. I imagine all that ebony would be horrendously expensive too. But i think it would sound stunning...!!! I look forward to seeing that being constructed. Jazzyvee | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 909 Registered: 12-2004 |
Don't forget African Blackwood (Dalbergia Melanoxylon)-- it is a rosewood, but looks similar to Ebony (and is hard and dense). | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 241 Registered: 11-2006 |
ok I will listen to rosewood...like the woman I'm loving to... | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Junior Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2007 |
An SC in Ebony should be fine if you opt for the hollowed body chambers as on a Series II | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2006 |
sorry, but in french? "hollowed body chambers as on a Series II" ? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2870 Registered: 7-2004 |
The core of the instrument has some hollow spaces in it to reduce the weight, as in an Alembic Series II instrument Bill, tgo | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2006 |
do you know the difference of weight ? Is it really important ? I think that an ebony SC is less heavier than my MK 5 strings 34"... | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Junior Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2007 |
Dave Houck can answer the weight question. He knows Alembics inside out | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5060 Registered: 6-2000 |
With all the Ebony you've mentioned in the neck, the SC will certainly be more massive. It's amazing what different woods can make in the finished weight. A typical 4-string long-scale Essence weighs about 8.5 pounds. Mine is 10.75 pounds. Mine also has a Cherry body, Kingwood top, and a 7-piece Maple and Purpleheart neck. We have a very limited quantity of black Ebony that is wide enough for tops. No bookmatch to center, but there is enough for maybe one or tow tops. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6032 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hah!!! I actually have no idea what the difference in weight would be between a chambered and a non-chambered Small Standard body bass. I don't recall seeing it mentioned before, and a quick search didn't find it. | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Junior Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2007 |
Dave, You are still the man!!! | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2006 |
senegal blackwood look nice...a little of tincture will be perfect. What is about price and weight ? | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6065 Registered: 5-2002 |
As a gross generalization, my guess is that African Blackwood weighs about 3/4 less than Ebony and Coco Bolo, and maybe 1/3 more than Maple and Walnut. From what I've been able to determine, it appears to be much more expensive than Coco Bolo. But I'm just guessing based on researching the web. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thank's Dave, and for sound, versus coco and ebony ? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5078 Registered: 6-2000 |
Since it's a Dalbergia, the expectation would be for it to sound similar to other Rosewoods, like Coco Bolo, Kingwood, Brazil, and Indian which we have used each with similar results. You never know until you build it, and the first person to try it gets to know for sure. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6077 Registered: 5-2002 |
After perusing the web for a while, this quote seems to sum up what I found elsewhere; "African Blackwood is a very responsive, excellent tone wood ... Mellow tone and attack." This wood is sought after for high end woodwinds (clarinets, oboes, flutes, etc.) and bagpipes. I've also seen it on a few high end acoustic guitars employed on the back and sides. In reference to it's use in acoustic guitars, I found a quote that suggests the tone is "not as deep as Brazilian Rosewood but not as tight as Mahogany". That quote combined with several others I ran across suggest to me that Blackwood is going to be similar in tone to Rosewood. All of this is to say that I have absolutely no idea. My guess is that as a top wood it probably doesn't add to the sound as much as Ebony or Coco Bolo would, that it wouldn't have the fundamental clarity of Ebony or the complexity of Coco Bolo; but I'm just guessing. I really have no idea. If cost is no object, it certainly sounds like an interesting idea. One post I read indicated that it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find Blackwood is sizes large enough to make a two piece back for an acoustic guitar. I don't know if any of this is helpful to you or not; but it certainly looks interesting. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6078 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wow! I can't believe how long it took me to write that last post; Mica beat me by 50 minutes!! Go with what Mica said! (Message edited by davehouck on January 23, 2008) | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2006 |
First problem (to Mica?): is it possible to tinct ebony or blackwood to give intense and regular black color, just able to see veneers ? For me, the best would be like vermillon veneers but black. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5080 Registered: 6-2000 |
We haven't done any tinting or dyeing of wood. As I mentioned, we have black Ebony wide enough for a top, but in very limited quantities. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2006 |
ok, I have time to wait... | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mica : is it possible to tinct ebony or blackwood or any wood to give intense and regular black color, just able to see veneers ? For me, the best would be like vermillon veneers but black. Thank's | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 956 Registered: 12-2004 |
Ebonized Ebony. huh. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mica ? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5123 Registered: 6-2000 |
We shy away from dyed or tinted wood. On a project we made for another manufacturer, they had ebonized Holly as an accent pinstripe. On the prototype, the black dye ran into the adjacent Maple - not a pretty sight. I'm not exactly sure by what you mean by "just able to see veneers" in your post from Feb 6th. Do you mean the grain lines as indicated by the "?" in this picture:  | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6204 Registered: 5-2002 |
Now that's an interesting picture. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2006 |
yes, something like that but darker and really black .. on this picture the "black" look like a dark green/gray... | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1794 Registered: 6-2002 |
Pierre-Yves - you have to realize that you're looking at a computer screen showing a compressed digital photo. The average computer screen is not of the same quality as one that a graphical designer would use. Plus if you're working at those standards, you would calibrate your monitor regularly. And then the compressed digital photo could have all kinds of weirdness going on regarding the truthfulness of the colours. It may well be that the black area in the picture is more like a dark green/gray, but your screen may also have something to do with that. ... I take that back, now that I've seen it on my own computer at home! It actually looks more black on a bad computer screen. (Message edited by Adriaan on February 12, 2008) | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 971 Registered: 12-2004 |
Adriaan, My guess is that the image is only a quick photoshop change, just to get an idea. Bradley | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mica, please may you answer to: is it possible to tinct any dark wood to give intense and regular black color ? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5156 Registered: 6-2000 |
As I mentioned on January 24, "We haven't done any tinting or dyeing of wood," and on February 11 I told you, "We shy away from dyed or tinted wood," and recounted a horror story of one experience of using a pre-dyed commercial product. Is is possible? Yes, I'm sure it is... many people who don't have access to Ebony dye woods all the time to mimic its appearance. Would we want to make a bass with dyed wood? Not really - especially because we have perfectly nice black Ebony available. My quick photo from Feb 11th was to try and ask you about the term "veneer" you used previously. It wasn't meant to exactly replicate a black color (which showed no grain line, and hence could not illustrate my point). Since there's a very good chance the dye would bleed into the neighboring Maple, it poses a huge threat to your continued happiness with such a bass. I don't think it's a good idea. Also, there is no way we would make a 32" scale Small Standard body. It's only available in 30.75" scale. You would need to select a different body shape to have medium scale. Another way to get the look you seem to want: make the top and back from Ebony, carve the texture (grain pattern) you want in the top and back, and use a combination oil/wax finish to emphasize it. There's always more than one way to do it! | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2006 |
many thank's Mica, I will translate with a friend. It's possible to have perfectly black ebony or near I understand, not with light (pale brown) veneers. have you pictures of them ? Clarke has a small body with 32" no ? I want a Clarke replica, possible ? he has really a 30,75" ? (Message edited by pierreyves on February 21, 2008) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5157 Registered: 6-2000 |
I'm not sure what you mean by veneers. Do you mean the wood joint like Monty had?  When we started Monty, I didn't have wide black Ebony, and prospects to locate more were low since we'd only ever made 3 other basses with black Ebony tops. Wouldn't you know shortly after we made Monty's body we lucked out and found an 8" wide board of deep black Ebony? This was the first bass we made from it:  This is a satin finish, which I don't recommend on any dark wood, especially Ebony since you'll never keep skin oils from marring the look. But you can see the color is uniform, dark, black, natural Ebony. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2006 |
I mean veeners the natural pattern in the wood, not the joint !! If you are able to have top and back with this black ebony, and a 7 pieces neck with 3 of ebony, It would be my dream ... You don't answer about Clarke's bass ? The finish will be standard finish. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5158 Registered: 6-2000 |
Stanley Clarke plays short scale, 30.75" just like the Stanley Clarke bass you own now. Can you see the back of the bass I posted with the all black Ebony? There are no natural patterns (your veneers), just all over black color. Stanley Clarke had one of the few Ebony basses. His had a Bird's-eye Maple body core and Zebrawood accent laminates. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2006 |
? on his web site (but the webmaster is a cake :o() it's write 32". ok I believe you. Have you pictures of this Stanley's bass ? Of course I saw your ebony bass without pattern. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5159 Registered: 6-2000 |
Sorry - we didn't take many pictures in the early days. I don't have any of this bass, but it's on the liner of my I Wanna Play For You record. Stanley's website is incorrect. | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2006 |
Ok I know it. Thank's Mica. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 265 Registered: 10-2006 |
More pictures of that bass, Mica, PLEASE! Peter | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 257 Registered: 11-2006 |
there is one on this forum but I don't remember where... | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 258 Registered: 11-2006 |
Please Mica I don't find the picture of this bass with vibrato on your forum, there is one .. I'm sure... | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thank's Mica, I find it on the web: http://www.spellbindercorp.com/index1.html  I don't understand ... how many Alembic black beauty are to sale ?? I saw on this link: http://live.bassplayer.com/Artist.aspx?name=stanley&video=stanley1 That Stanley has a new quilted coco bolo ?? How many bass he had ?? And he never play with the dragon ? This coco bolo is very very .. pretty, sweet, nice .. I will hesitate ... |
