| Author | Message | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 775 Registered: 6-2002 |
Last month's Baritone 12 string really blew my mind: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leo12.html I imagine a 6 X 12 string double neck with both necks 30" scale baritones. Same body style as that custom. Purpleheart body with Macassar Ebony top and back bookmatched to center, continuous wood everything (including pickups). Purpleheart necks with ebony laminates...... (Message edited by rami on March 21, 2008) | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2004 |
Do it Rami! Do it!! Seriously though, that would be incredibly cool and probably close to 30lbs I'd imagine. (Message edited by tbrannon on March 21, 2008) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 776 Registered: 6-2002 |
I want to...so, so, so badly!!!! I've never stared as obsessively at a featured custom as I have at this one: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leo12.html Nor have I ever been as tempted...... But there's the daunting thought of what it would cost! YIKES!!!!! (:0 P.S. I don't usually share my design thoughts out of a mortal fear that somebody else might actually build it - but since I know that It's beyond my means, hopefully someone will build it so I can buy it used sometime down the road! Um.... I think I'll just sit here and hold my breath waiting for that to happen.... ;) (Message edited by rami on March 21, 2008) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 |
Something like this? (quick PaintShopPro job)  | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 779 Registered: 6-2002 |
VERY NICE!!! But I'd make the necks more parallel with the headstocks as close together as possible. The 12 string on top and a 6 string below. Of course, different woods and other options and electronics. But that's a nice visual starting point! (Message edited by rami on March 24, 2008) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 |
It has a 5 degree angle between the necks. With that you get good clearence between the necks and the tailpiece can be made as one single piece. And the body gets slightly narrower. The necks should be closer to each other. (I said it was a quick job) Spent more time on this earlier experiment.  On this it's the pickups that dictates the width, they get close to each other. | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2005 |
Am am I I seeing seeing double? double? | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 272 Registered: 10-2005 |
Crap! No matter how hard I try, I can't get it to double post!!! | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 780 Registered: 6-2002 |
DAMN!!! That's nice!!!!! I think that's one of Valentino's babies. | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 |
Yep. It's indeed "Bird of Pray". A bit modified. I'm using that basic shape for a design I'm drawing in Autocad, but the necks are different, unlike "BoP" they are fretted. Upper neck is a 36" 6-string low F and the lower neck is a direct copy of "8 strings of Power". | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 |
Here is what I have at the moment, the pistolgrip needs some work, I'm not satisfied with the omegas, and I must finish the strings.  | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 |
I'm also designing a singelneck, based on the Essence 6 body, even more streched upper horn, and a flatted omega. The omega is possible due to the fingerboard having 31 frets, it's 70mm longer than the standard 24 frets. Thus the entire "system", (pups,bridge,tailpiece, etc.), is moved out that much making room for an omega. The strings are not finished and I think I'm gonna redesign the pickups.  | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 781 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wow. Just amazing! Are these simply concepts, or are you actually planning to build them? | ||
| briant
Intermediate Member Username: briant Post Number: 150 Registered: 12-2004 |
Cool looking ideas. That double neck 6 / 8 string bass would be amazingly heavy... wow. | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 273 Registered: 10-2005 |
Rob, Love the designs! Are you working in 3D in Autocad? Really nice renderings, great work. What version Acad are you running? I have some Acad experience and also some metal working exp too. Kris | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 529 Registered: 11-2005 |
I must add that after changing the strings on my guitarist's Gibson EDS-1275, having the headstocks closer together would prevent the use of a string winder which makes for a frustrating situation.....deep breath aaand go! I'd opt for a little bit of angle between the necks just for this purpose alone, kind of like Pete Townsend's aahem..modified Gibson. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 782 Registered: 6-2002 |
I like the EDS-1275. I considered buying one many times over the years, but I just couldn't justify its price. The Epiphone G-1275 makes more sense. It's based on Jimmy Page's doubleneck. It actually plays and sounds better than the Gibson at less than 1/3 the price. I think this is mainly due to the location of the tailpieces, much further back than on the Gibson resulting in greater string tension. Also, the necks are Mahogany like Page's rather than Maple on the Gibson. I like the necks to be parallel so I can reach the lower neck more easily. I play my Basses at the same level standing as when I'm sitting. To play the lower neck of a doubleneck with the necks angled apart would have the top neck right in my face. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2006 |
While I, too, love Epiphones, I don't think you can lay any of their excellence relative to Gibsons (especially for the money) on the tailpiece placement. Tension is the result of tightening the SPEAKING LENGTH of the string mass to a particular pitch. The same mass string on the same scale length at the same pitch will have the same tension no matter how far you move the tailpiece (the same would hold true for tuning pegs). Peter | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 783 Registered: 6-2002 |
I disagree. String tension is a function of string mass, scale length, headstock angle, tuning peg location, neck angle, how far the strings are anchored behind the bridge, bridge height and neck relief. Anyone can tell you that there's a significant difference between the string tension on a Jazz Bass with the strings anchored through the body compared to one with the strings anchored through the bridge, or a guitar with a regular inline headstock versus a reversed inline headstock. You can increase the string tension without changing the scale length. Perhaps I don't fully understand the definition of "Speaking Length", but I know that string tension is constant throughout the length of the string from where it's anchored at both ends. The nut and bridge saddle do not hold the string securely. It's free to slide over them. The "Speaking Length" varies with each note played on the string without affecting tension. But then what do I know? Maybe my fingers and ears are just telling me what I want to hear. I'm sure that experts (such as those who build Alembics) can confirm or refute this. I'm no expert. ;) As well, the Epiphone has Mahogany necks with a flame Maple top, the Gibson has Maple necks with no top wood. I don't know what differences lie in their pickups or any other factor (other than tailpiece location) that may affect their sounds. The Gibson costs $3500, the Epiphone cost around $900. The Gibson is made in the U.S., the Epiphone is made in Korea. I'm not a particular fan or owner of either. The Epiphone sounds better to me. It "feels" like it has greater string tension with greater sustain - in my opinion. (Message edited by rami on March 28, 2008) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
New Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 |
Kris. I work mainly in AutoCAD 2002. I've tried the latest, 2008, because 2002 is VERY unstable in Windows Vista, but I don't like the way they've changed things in it. Rami. For now it's mostly concepts, an exercise in what I can do in Autocad, get some ideas out of my head. It would take very long for me to save the money needed, and I don't know how to play any instrument. I just have ideas. Maybe time to learn... | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 784 Registered: 6-2002 |
I also passed up the opportunity to buy the John Judge when it was up for sale. Something I'll always regret:  It was a money issue at the time. The cost of a new one would be astronomical. I hear it has a good home. It'll probably outlive us all. | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2007 |
Damn. Those heads are closer than what I draw. Scorpion body with omega and double points. Nice. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 785 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yeah, the necks have to be close together to make it playable. Here's another Alembic beauty;  But I can't imagine playing this (for my style of playing) simply due to the difficulty reaching the lower neck. The top neck would be almost across my face, my nose would be where the second cherub is located! It's more art than instrument. (Message edited by rami on March 29, 2008) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2007 |
Heh.... an idea fueled by beeing awake to long... Learn how to play both as a rightie and a leftie... Both necks would then be the upper one... (I definitly need more sleep).... | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2006 |
Steve Vai has/had a double-neck built that way - he'd play hammer-ons with both hands simunltaniously. A gimmick - but a very impresive one. Peter | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2007 |
Rami. If you get the neck dimensions from Mica, both for a 30" 12-string and for a 30" 6-string bariton, I can do a design suggestion in AutoCAD. I won't be able to simulate the BtC, but a macassar ebony top should be possible. Have to search the site for some good pictures. Purpleheart and normal Ebony have already been simulated (as seen in my renderings). | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2007 |
I also need the string gauges and -spacing. (sorry for doublepost) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 786 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's ok. I was just oohing and aahing over that 12 string baritone. I wouldn't want to see the Doubleneck too well rendered. It'll be too much of a tease! ;) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hmmmmm..... why do I get a really evil thought through my mind.... hehe.... maybe it'll be fun to tease.... temptation, temptation... | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2007 |
;) ... more temptation.....  | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5286 Registered: 6-2000 |
Now you've got me thinking! | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 728 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, wow, the DDW (Double Dragon Wing) is cool. Mica, I need an estimate on this (4string and 8string) Rob, you made my day..... Oliver (Spyderman)   | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2007 |
It's nice when some of my strange ideas can be useful for someone... | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2007 |
Btw , the angle between the necks is 2.5 degrees. | ||
| speicky
Advanced Member Username: speicky Post Number: 277 Registered: 3-2005 |
Congrats, Robert, your "strange ideas" are such a tempting brain food... I need more and more and more. The double DW made my day also, I wonder what you will come up with next  Christian | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 729 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, would it be possible for you to "build" me a DDW with your computer program? Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1004 Registered: 2-2005 |
So Oliver when will we see the pictures of you and the Double Dragon? :-) Keith | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 730 Registered: 7-2003 |
Keith, at first I need to raise some funds.... :-) Maybe I should open a donation to save the DDW´s..:-) Well I must say this thing is really growing on me.... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 731 Registered: 7-2003 |
Guys, btw here is a small video excerpt from our last gig. Unfortunately only exactly 37 persons of audience. Sorry for the bad sound; taken with a normal video cam. What do you think? http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/senmen/?action=view¤t=Viersen105.flv Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007 |
Oliver, I could try.... It won't be perfectly accurate, cause I only have the pictures to get the bodyshape from. Very few of the pictures are straight from above. Maybe Mica can give me something better to work with. And I need the correct string spacing for both necks. 4-string upper and 4+octave lower neck? | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 732 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, 4 string fretless upper and 8string (4+octave lower) Can you work with this?  Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2007 |
I found a good picture on FC January 2004, it will do... I hope. (I've straightened it up a bit) I use the pickups to get the right scale.  | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2007 |
Early preview. (Ignore the strange shadows in the pickup pockets)  | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 733 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, wow you are fast mate. Would it be possible to change the tint to an amber maple and have each a hum canceller installed? Wow... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2007 |
Step two. I used a texture that's in AutoCAD, named Light Ash for the top. How do You like the P-heart lams in the necks? Middle one is .25", next 2: .125" and the outer ones: .0625". The 4 pieces of Maple in between are all .25".  (Message edited by Rob_the_fiend on April 24, 2008) | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 728 Registered: 11-2004 |
I really like those purpleheart lams the way you have them. The DW body style isn't my personal favorite, but this is certainly cool. | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 734 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, fantastic!!! Could you put on the bridges and knobs like on my DW TFJ? Maybe an additional selector switch for the both necks? What about the necks? 4string fretless on top and 8string below? Maybe the 8string with a longer DW headstock to fit the 8tuners. Maybe 4 big and 4 small? You are great man... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 793 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wow Rob, Perhaps you can work part time for Alembic. That looks exquisite... and very, very expensive! The Doubleneck actually makes sense with that body style. That upper portion of the wing would help with the balance. I'd go with a fretted 4 lower neck and a fretless 4 upper neck. I'd also try to get the necks still more parallel. It should be player friendly as well as being a beautiful work of art. My 2 cents, | ||
| rob_the_fiend
Junior Username: rob_the_fiend Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2007 |
Oliver. Work in progress... patience. How about using the standard(DW) headstock on the upper neck, and a mirrored on the lower. That would put the bass tuners on the outside, then the smaller (shorter) guitar tuners end up on the inside. Skip the bevel on the side of the lower peghead. No difference in size for the -heads. Can someone give me a blueprint for the knobs and dials? | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 735 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rob, sorry, didn´t want to push you. I am really happy about your skills With the headstock will not work as we need e/E a/A d/D g/G so I think we must mix between small and big ones. Oliver (Spyderman) |
