| Author | Message | ||
| marco
New Username: marco Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi there, I really need help with a some major decisions, building my 6 string on paper, before it goes to the ‘boutique’ at Alembic. This is one problem: 1. Scale length My first major decision is the scale length. I like deep piano-string-sound with thunder bass. But please, no sloppy strings! And yes I like a warm tone… Mostly I play dramatic tango, jazz-rock or jazz ballads. So my guess is: go 36 inch. But there are rumours: 1. a 36" give the strings to much strength because the bass now day’s is very stiff already; 2. a 36" does not give you more deeper bass than a 35” 3. a 36” gives you zero choice in string-land... Q What is your thought about these points? And your experience? Like to hear from you. | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2002 |
Marco- If you're not getting the extended length for the "feel" of the string (longer = more tautness), then just put Ebony in the neck. The guys at Larry Morgan Music swear that my 34" Series Alembics have better bottom end than most any 35' or 36" bass. I personally cannot tell the difference in feel between a 34" and 35" scale. And remember, most Alembics are neck heavy to begin with....add more neck, and it just gets worse. If tone is trump, then stick with the standard 34", put Ebony in the neck and go out and shake some foundations. C-Ya..........wayne | ||
| bob
Intermediate Member Username: bob Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hi Marco, If you're trying to decide between 34, 35, and 36, then I definitely agree with Wayne that it's more important to stick Ebony in the neck first. All things being equal (which they won't), this will probably be the best way to move in the direction of deep, clear, bass, and something I might think of as more piano-like. But that's not cheap, of course, and you have other good questions regarding string availability, and tensions. Most 34" strings just won't fit a 36. Some might barely fit a 35, and if they do then they will end up feeling tighter, Whether they will sound better by virtue of being tighter is unclear, and may depend on the strings. But they may feel a little different, and that may fit your playing style, and end up sounding better. Or not. I haven't seen enough numbers to generalize, but at least in the case of TI Jazz Flats, the 36" strings (on a 36 inch instrument, of course) are designed to have slightly higher tension than a set of 34's on a 34. If you put these strings on a 35, you get tension in between, but still a bit more than 34-on-34 (I think). To make this a little more concrete, if you put a set of TI-JF34's on a 35" scale, the tension on each string will increase on average from about 38 to 40 lbs (i.e. an increase of 2 pounds, which is probably around the threshold of sensation). I have a bunch of these numbers on a spreadsheet, and could look them up if you're really interested. But I do recall that in the case of these particular strings, using a 34" set on a 35" instrument turned out to be about the same as having them on a 34" bass and tuning the low B up just barely over B#; by the time you got to the D and G strings, you could approximate the tension on a 35 by tuning them up sightly less than a half step. That's not very much difference. I think I'm pretty sensitive to tension, but most definitely do not have perfect pitch. When I take the strings off for some reason and put them back, I find that I can usually tune just by tension (no reference pitch) to within 2-3 whole steps (but not always...). So a half step difference is pretty slight. My personal opinion is that if your bottom string is an E, 34" is sufficient and there is little to be gained by going longer, plus you have a wide selection of strings, and tensions, to choose from. However, with a 5 string I feel you can do better with some extra length. So if you have a favorite set of 34" strings but would like them to be just a little tighter, you might try to figure out whether they will fit on a 35 - but I caution you that the answer is probably no, so you should check this carefully. Or if you know the strings you like are available in 36" scale, then just go for it. Overall, start with the Ebony neck lams at 34. If you're getting a 4 string, I'd stop there; if you're going for 5 strings *and* you know that you have a favorite string set that is available in a 36" length, I think you'll get some incremental benefit by going longer. -Bob (Message edited by bob on April 03, 2004) | ||
| dnburgess
Advanced Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 212 Registered: 1-2003 |
While on the subject of scale lengths - does anyone have experience with 32" scale 5 (or 6)-strings? | ||
| marco
New Username: marco Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks Wayne for putting in some extra food for thought on the neck of the instrument. And Bob for the interesting philosophy on the string sets you choose: we should make a topic of it! Wow… this is going to be a carefully picked bass. One element I am learning is that I am doomed to make decisions without knowing what the outcome will be. I have to trust other (heavyweight) customers. I am glad this forum exists! Thank you people at (the) Alembic (club)! Pointing out that 35” seems to be a trendsetting on 5 string basses in the market now day’s, I truly hope that strings come in longer standard sizes. Otherwise I like the Alembic strings with the steel-feel… So I am a lucky kid (I assume that they will fit o a 36”). Sorry “dnburgess”, can’t help you. I would like to measure the output from each inch-bass with a computer. I think that string-tension is the significant difference. But... | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2003 |
I really like Lakland's 5-string sets, which are for 35" scale. I suppose you could call them up and find out who makes their strings for them to get 6-string sets. Dan Lakin is really good about answering email too. As for the rest of the original question, I found that the more strings you have, the tighter-sounding the low B is. You've got a lot more mass to the neck, and the pull of the extra strings provides added stiffness as well. The Ebony neck laminates are only, what, $250.00? Ebony laminates and a 35" scale are well worth the money if you ask me. You really ought to pick Rami's brain on sustain and fundamental. If you're concerned about neck-heaviness (my series I long scale point isn't neck heavy IMHO), get a Rogue body, or an extended upper horn. ..Or a Scorpion (I always liked that shape)!! John | ||
| goatfoot
Junior Username: goatfoot Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey marco, I could feel the difference in tension between my 36" custom 5-string w/ Rogue body and the 34" Alembic 5-strings I've tried in the shops (I don't own a 34", however). The B string on my 36" bass is very well balanced with the rest of the strings. It's not like a 4-string w/ a low B as an afterthought like some other manufacturer 5-strings I've tried. I would describe the tone of my bass a "piano-like." I have no problems with balance - a fact I contribute to the Rogue's long upper horn. My bass came shipped with Ken Smith strings which fit perfectly. I prefer DR-High beams, though. I have a set of regular DR's on it now, not the "long-necks", and they fit "OK." The wrap on the B-string ends in the middle of the nut. I don't think this detracts from the tone. I was going to try Sunbeams next - to save my frets a bit. I haven't tried ebony-lams, but my impression is that they add more fundamental to the tone. 36" scale and ebony lams are two "must-haves" for when I have my custom 6 built -- before a fancy top wood. Kevin | ||
| marco
New Username: marco Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2004 |
John and Kevin, thank you for joining this discussion about the scale of an Alembic! The Rouge body is great! In fact I had one 5 string. But this one is stolen from me a couple years ago. After some thinking: The “string story” really helped me with the choice to hold on to my 36”dream because it can be a very rewarding job to try out different setups with different string sets. The discussion about the ebony laminates helped me a lot with the quest for tone: what are those tones inside me? I hear a lot of bass and also a melodic voice. It has a lite chorus, nose sounding growl but not to much away from that piano sound. I believe I get a lot of ‘feel’ with the bass when the strings have high tension. It provides me that piano tone, deep bass sound I am looking for. | ||
| goatfoot
Junior Username: goatfoot Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2003 |
Marco, I thought of another benefit of the Rogue body/36" scale combination. I can very the tone of my bass GREATLY just by changing my right-hand position. I believe that the Rogue body allows for wider pickup placement than most other body shapes. (Well ... I know that my Rogue pups are more widely spaced than my Brown Bass pups.) If I play near the bridge, I get a very bright sound. Play near the neck and I get a very deep sound without adjusting the tone controls at all. Of course the string tension is greater near the bridge, but one advantage of the 36" scale is that the tension is not floppy when playing closer to the neck. You said the "tone inside" you is a lot of bass, a melodic voice and a lite chorus. IMO, the "a lot of bass" would come from the ebony lams, the melodic voice from the maple in the neck and your choice of top/body woods, and the lite chorus from the 36" scale (the sustain on my 36" Rogue is just incredible) and your choice of strings. I can "hear" it already. Sounds great. Happy dreams, Kevin |
