| Author | Message | ||
| klinkepeter
Member Username: klinkepeter Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hi Jimmy, check out this link, u might know this band, at least the drummer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2vgh6lxoH8 your bassplaying on the record ( A SPACE ODDITY) is so unbelievable innovativ and tasty, inspired me a lot for the live performances, Peter | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 371 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Peter! Thanks for the kind comment. Wow, small world huh? You sound great with this crazy concept of a band: odd meter interpretations of 60's and 70's tunes ... with string quartet? Sure, why not?! I know Chris a bit but never actually met Misha, only via email and telephone. They both seem like very nice cats. And it must be a fun band to play with - low volume wild grooving. Good stuff! Keep up the good work! Jimmy J | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 484 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hey Jimmy, I did make it to the Baked Potato, but unfortunately didn't have time to catch the band. We spent the whole weekend looking for an apartment in Culver City for my son, & got in late every night. I will make it a point to catch the band on my next visit! It was much smaller than I expected!  | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 372 Registered: 8-2008 |
Rusty, I hope your apartment search was successful. Excellent that you made it by the Spud! Yes, there it is in all it's glory! It is a funky little place but has a long history of great music. It was started as a place for LA's studio musicians to play for fun. And Don Randi, the original owner, happened to be playing the night you took that photo! He's a piano player who was part of the "wrecking crew" with Hal Blaine and all. Still plays with Nancy Sinatra on the road. His son Justin runs the club now and has another generation of players passing through, but Don still plays now and again... Next time you'll have to go in and get an earful. All the best, Jimmy J | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3135 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm hoping to pay the potato a visit towards the end of September. Graeme | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hey Jimmy, Unfortunately our apartment search didn't turn up exactly what my son is looking for. He is holding out for a one bedroom with a washer/dryer hookup, & they are hard to find! He works for Sony Pictures in Culver City, but currently lives a half mile from the Baked Potato, in Hollywood so the drive is pretty rough on him. I tried to go inside the Baked Potato when we took the picture, but they weren't open yet. I will definitely catch a show there sometime, hopefully one you are playing in! With my son living out there, we will be making many trips in the years to come! Thanks for the history lesson on the Baked Potato! Rusty | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3148 Registered: 10-2002 |
hey Jimmy. I found a mint copy of Tunnel on fleabay last week and I've been listening to it constantly since friday. What a great album. Lots of superb playing from yourself naturally but also from the rest of the band - I love the flute on Momentary truce - and some cool little slices of humour such as the intro to Man overboard. Hopefully more BB's work will surface . Interesting fact in the sleeve notes that the BB's were the first band to work in digital. I didn't know that! Graeme | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2008 |
Graeme, Thanks for that, glad you're enjoying some early bb's action. I've probably said it here before but we did have fun making those records and you can hear it in the music. The simulated throwing of me into the lake is a good example. Ha! Tom Jung liked to make hour-long records because that was a new possibility with CDs and he liked the value of including extra content. To me that always felt like one "side" too many and we'd usually run out of tunes by the end and have to cobble something together at the session - with varied results. So each record has some moments which I still enjoy and a few that make me cringe. Dick Oatts' playing always makes me smile. He was and still is a great musician and composer (Momentary Truce is one of his tunes). The whole premise of that band was to make test music for digital audio. Play soft and then REALLY LOUD, lot's of high bells, big holes for the reverb tails, etc. Things that showed off the dynamic range, lack of wow and flutter, and "crystal clear" sound of the new CD format. (The purists were all up in arms about the limitations of pcm audio - little did they know that mp3s were soon to come leaving CDs as the most "hi-fi" digital audio for years...) Anyway ... thanks for diggin' it. We were never really serious as a band so I can't foresee us making any more records. But you never know, stranger things have happened. Cheers! Jimmy J | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3150 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Jimmy. Thanks for the insight.Interesting that you think there are some cringeworthy moments on the record - I certainly didn't spot them. As for MP3, I refuse point blank to be drawn into that medium and spend at least one saturday afternoon a month trawling through the used vinyl shops in Edinburgh. My turntable easily gets as much use as the CD player. Looking at my comment "Hopefully more BB's work will surface" I actually meant I hoped more would appear on Ebay. I know you've said many times that it's unlikely you'll make any more BB's records. Two countries seperated by a common language :-) I saw Allan H had anounced some European dates. None in the UK yet but I live in hope even though it seems you won't be joining him. Graeme | ||
| slev
New Username: slev Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Jimmy, I have been listening to Planet X for a few weeks now, and I was wondering if you could share with us how you got the gig, how you approached the music and how was the overall experience with such amazing players. I realise this might not be the best thread to ask this, but i figured I would ask anyway! Thank you, Sacha | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 374 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Sasha, Welcome to the forum. This is exactly the place to ask this kind of question as it's the only place I hang out. And Spector guys are welcome too. A few weeks is a long time to be listening to Planet X, don't hurt yourself. Ha! Those guys do brew up some industrial strength fusion music, don't they? All technical wizards - and very nice guys. "got the gig" isn't quite right, I've only recorded with them and never attempted to play live. Even the sessions were always overdubs, with plenty of punches and repairs... The first time was for a couple tracks of "Moonbabies" in '02 (I think). I used to go to Virgil's or Derek's home studios but lately I've been working on things for them on my own home rig. Or in the case of Derek's latest "Oceana" I built all my tracks in hotel rooms on the road. I find the written bass parts very difficult if not impossible to play (at least for me, I know there are guys who can do it). Much of it is composed with sequenced synth bass so sometimes there are things that I just can't reach. There have been instances where I have simplified a part or even split the part into two pieces and given them two bass tracks to be used simultaneously. An example of that is the ending section of "Alien Hiphop" starting around 6:32. If you listen on phones you can hear that some of my accented notes appear slightly left and some slightly right of center. That's because there are 2 parts going at that moment, alternating notes (triplets). I'd need to do some pruning to make a part that I could play all at once at that tempo, and it wouldn't be quite so relentless. The recorded results are pretty cool though! Oh, I believe these guys knew me from my playing with Allan Holdsworth and maybe a couple other things locally - Derek and Virgil are both in LA. So they call me every now and again and I am both thrilled and frightened to hear from them. HA!! Be sure to listen to some nice slow ballads to balance things out! Best wishes, Jimmy J | ||
| slev
New Username: slev Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Jimmy, Planet X is indeed pretty tricky stuff to play. It must be quite the challenge to play a live set! And good to know I am not the only one that finds Alien Hip Hop's last part difficult stuff:P Thank you for sharing with us the recording process. Seems like it was both fun and demanding! Are you planning on coming to Montreal anytime soon? I'd love to go see you play. Sacha | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 375 Registered: 8-2008 |
Sacha, (sorry for my previous misspelling.) Montreal is a great town and supports all kinds of music with it's many festivals. I expect to be there at the end of July with James Taylor - music from the other end of the spectrum. That may not be your cup of tea but it's been a good touring job for me for many years and I enjoy this style of music too. Not a lot of call for two simultaneous bass parts, but it is heavy in a different way. You've got some nice two-handed things on your website, I can tell you are in a practicing stage. Keep up the good work! Jimmy J | ||
| slev
New Username: slev Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hey Jimmy, Thank you for the kind words. Still working very hard to push the enveloppe of bass playing...two-handed tapping has been around for a while now, but I am trying to get my own sound slowly but surely. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to any of my solo project material, but feel free to have a listen if you get a chance! And I will make to sure check out the tour dates of James Taylor. I enjoy music in any form, so I am sure I will find something interesintg in James Taylors (I'll actually check it out as we speak). I read somewhere that you did not have any formal musical training. Funny enough, I am in the same category, and it really is inspiring to see a player of your caliber play such great music. Thanks again, Sacha | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 376 Registered: 8-2008 |
Sacha, Well, no formal training for me on bass but I did study piano as a kid and then clarinet through high school. Mom taught piano, dad played upright jazz and in the Minnesota Orchestra, older brother played flute, organ, guitar and bass - so I couldn't escape if I'd tried! A lot of what I learned on clarinet, including reading rhythms, intervals, and hearing melodies, kind of transferred over to the bass and explains why I solo as I do - slightly odd for a bass player. Probably your background on trumpet does the same for you. It's all related, any instrument you play has an effect on the next one you play. Carry on. Jimmy J | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1845 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jimmy: I took piano trainng all through grade school, and I've always thought I approached bass differently having come from an instrument where with two hands and 88 keys you could play 'both' (or all) parts. When I took up the bass, it transferred: I likened to learning to type, inasmuch as I already knew how to spell, knew punctuation, etc.: I only had to learn the typewriter. I could not imagine playing bass without ever having played an instrument where I could make chords and see the relationships between the parts. How is it for you? All the Best, J o e y | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 377 Registered: 8-2008 |
J o e y, Well, now I really wish I'd kept up the piano ... but for me it served as a great starting point with rhythm, harmony, melody, treble and bass clef all together. Since bass lives between the groove and the harmony there are some guys who are much more on the rhythm side of things, more likely to also play drums. Their playing style, particularly soloing, comes out quite different. We're definitely the sum of every instrument we've played or any music we've listened to or been exposed to. It's what makes all our voices unique and the world keep spinning. Best to everybody, Jimmy J | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1375 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've always guessed that's why Hendrix sounds alot like a Sax at times (his Dad played saxaphone). have a good weekend, Elwood | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2851 Registered: 6-2002 |
I guess his dad listened to or played a fair bit of Coltrane stuff then. :-) Jazzyvee | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1199 Registered: 10-2006 |
You'll be with JT at Ravenia in July? Just looked the ticket prices, gulped, & e-mailed the soundman there (old roommate/roadcrewmate); if he can tighten me up, we'll be there. Peter | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hi JJ, last week me and Frank could make it to the new Allan Holdsworth trio, with Donati and Haslip, here in Milan  We had a chance to have dinner with Jimmy Haslip and his wife, and there we happened to talk about you. Haslip asked Frank why he didn't have lessons with you last year, and we had to explain him your reluctancy to give lessons at all... He was quite surprised! And...you know what he said??? LOL "I would take lessons from Jimmy Johnson too, I would love it." - Jimmy Haslip. Fullstop..... ;) All the best! Gabriele. | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 390 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Gabriele, It's great that you and Franco got out to "support the team", I'm sure you heard some amazing playing that night. That's a nice thing for Jimmy H. to say - he's such a gentleman! He's also another unique voice on the instrument with a really "deep" sound. I'm sure I could learn a lot from him! Is there such a thing as a two-way lesson? Ha! Thanks for the report. Jimmy J | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 281 Registered: 5-2005 |
It is always a two-way lesson between Teacher and Student, Jimmy! But you already know that of course. Ah Grasshopper! I agree about Mr. Haslip, a terrific player and easy to talk to at concert venues as long as there are pretty women around! | ||
| physics_doc
New Username: physics_doc Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2012 |
Do you ever do club appearances in the Nashville area? I've seen Keith Carlock at 3rd & Lindsley, and wondered if you've ever gigged with him outside of a JT tour. BTW, absolutely love Tricycle and This is A Recording (BB's). | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 396 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Doctor Bill, Welcome to the forum and thanks for the nice comments. I sometimes tour with Allan Holdsworth and there was a time when we could travel across the country playing clubs - but that's no longer a viable business model. Now it only works to do a short east coast run or a short west coast run. So the last time I played a club in Nashville would have been with him many years ago. Though I did play Bridgestone Arena just last Thursday with JT, a nice intimate setting... HA! I think Keith might live in Nashville now, or maybe part of the time? The tour he did with James was the only chance I've had to play with him so far and it was a treat. Great cat too. Jimmy J | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hi JJ, with Franco and the band, we're thinking to work on Lanyard Loop, I was hoping if you can point me to any transcription, or I'll have to do the work myself...and you know pianist "grapes" of notes are not beloved by guitarists... thanx for any help Gabriele. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1245 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, my buddy Norm, who does the sound at Ravinia, says he can get us in for JT Friday - but now I started a crappy new job & am on night shift. Oh, well - have fun Jimmy; wish I could see you! Peter | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2010 |
Well, JJ, I did it myself, I will post it if you allow me...but.....my god.........timing is unpredictable!!!....almost got it, but sometime it just has no scheduling! LOL | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2010 |
...anyway, JJ...there's something uncomprehensible when you and allan and chad play together....no band of allan I've listened to ever spread the uncomprehensible perfectness of you three together....my god......you never know what's going to happen, and when is chaos, it's perfect chaos......you three just fit together! ;) Gabriele | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2010 |
Anyone interested, here some of my public transcriptions on Scribd, including Lanyard Loop, both piano and guitar tab versions http://www.scribd.com/gabriele_bulfon | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 397 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Peter, Sorry you can't make it but "working" is the best reason. Good luck with the new job. Gabrielle, You picked a difficult tune! Some of the rhythms in this song are just played by feel - almost like the group "speaking" words together. I can assure you that none of us ever wrote the whole thing out so I have nothing to compare your transcription to. My bass chart is the usual shorthand scribble, I don't remember Husband writing it out, Allan's chart on this one is amazing and looks like Martian cave writing, and I don't think Chad wrote it out either. So you may be the first! I can't really tell by looking at it if your notes and harmonies are correct, I'm not even sure of the rhythmic mathematics... This is one of his crazier compositions. The track was originally recorded with Husband and I in 2000 but that version has yet to be released. So the one you're listening to with Chad (live in Japan?) is already a reinterpretation of the original. Very similar, but not exactly the same because of what I say above - some of it is just felt, and different guys feel it in different ways. For example, the 1/8 note at the end of the 5/4 bars is often part of a triplet, OR maybe just a stretched 1/8 note, OR somewhere in between. And where you write 3:5 or "3 across 5" and 5:9, well, that may be correct but I can't really say. I'm sure Chad could but I can't. I do know the tempo change is some sort of "metric modulation". The two tempos are related somehow but I don't know the formula. I'm glad you guys are having fun trying to figure these tunes out. It's certainly good ear training. Carry on! Jimmy J | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2010 |
JJ, yes I realized all that unwritable stuff was the result of your interplay, but that was the only way I found to write it down on Sibelius! And the fun part is that if you try to tap and don't be confused by your playing, it will happen to fall at a perfect beat at the end! Aliens I would really love to have a look at one of Allan's "Martian cave writing", one day or another. Would be interesting! And....btw.....I'm quite used to be transgendered by Americans, but..... I'm a man! With one "L"! :D Gabriele. | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 398 Registered: 8-2008 |
Gabriee, (I've deleted the "L" this time because I was ahead by one, sorry about that.) Some day I hope Allan will release Husband's version too so you can hear the variation. It's pretty interesting. Allan's own charts are only for the solo sections. And as you probably know his notation references the scales more so than the chords. He hand writes them but once we did a computer graphics version for laughs and below is a glimpse of the beginning of the solo section for this tune - which only makes sense to him... Enjoy! Jimmy J  | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2010 |
Wow!!!!! I still don't have written down the solo section, so I can't compare at the moment....but........I'll do it asap! It'll be soooooo interesting!!!! Thanks Jimmy!! | ||
| afrankie
Junior Username: afrankie Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2011 |
Wow thanx JJ, fantastic :-) | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 660 Registered: 2-2011 |
Looks like the formula for transparent aluminum! (from Star Trek - The Voyage Home!) | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do you mean Lanyard Loop solo section with "this tune", or are you inviting me to solve the mistery? | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2010 |
....btw, I just uploaded my transcription of Jimmy bass solo on Dodgy Boat.....I love that solo! http://www.scribd.com/doc/101210808/Allan-Holdsworth-Dodgy-Boat-Bass-Solo-by-Jimmy-Johnson Anyone can read it online, but to download the pdf, Scribd requires you to create a free account, and then share something in change of a download. | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 399 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yes that's the beginning of the Lanyard Loop solo. Just to help out (or not) my first 3 pitches are E-flat, D-flat and B for two bars each. Keep in mind that sometimes two "chords" might be the same "scale" so he wouldn't indicate a change... I think I've also said this before but in my opinion transcribing and reading music are not the same as playing and creating music. Transcribing is a good exercise and reading is a handy tool but they are skills which you don't actually need to MAKE music, if you know what I mean. If you're having fun with it by all means carry on. The time spent on intense listening and writing won't hurt. Just remember to put the music stands away and jam occasionally. Cheers, Jimmy J | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2005 |
Interesting distinction you make Jimmy, I think Jeff Berlin might have strong views that diifer from yours, but I cetainly can see your point. One reason to transcribe is that there may be composers in training among us. Thus, skills learned in transcribing may be most useful, in particluar in sharing the roadmap with others. Why limit one's options and skill set? It reminds me of the great debate, to read music or not? If you have creative tendencies, I think you keep them even if you can transcribe and or read music. For seesion work this is critical. Perhaps these skills can even expand creativity, on a different level than just "feeling" music. Not that "feeling the music is a bad thing" of course. That is why we have Festivus! Seriously, I buy as much vinyl, in duplicate and more of any recording you appear on. CD's as well. I want to contact Wayne Johnson to load up so to speak. G-d bless ebay for that! I still remember your NYC Bottom Line concert many moons ago that I have mentioned in another post a while ago. The fact that you share so much makes me really want to dig your playing even more! I wish there ws a Transcription of "Sky Pirates" for example. a wonderful solo, simiar in mood changes to Alex Lifeson of Rush, "La Villa Strangiato" I think. And you tone! Oooh Ahhh, Oh Baby Oh baby!! | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 662 Registered: 2-2011 |
+1 on Jimmy's tone! It is the referance I use to set my amp! | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 400 Registered: 8-2008 |
Steve, Thanks for the kind words regarding my playing history, I appreciate that. I'm not saying that transcribing and reading are a waste of time. Anything you do relating to music improves your own playing / writing skills. Playing another instrument is a good example, very good for your musical brain. But in our side of the biz (non-classical, with apologies to any classical Alembic players) reading does not necessarily make you a better player. George Benson, Allan Holdsworth, James Taylor and many other of our favorite musicians consider themselves "non-readers" and it clearly doesn't their talents. That said, I encourage everybody to learn to read simply because it opens up more opportunities to play, and work. Transcribing... Everybody who plays an instrument copies somebody in the beginning. That's kind of audio transcribing I suppose. Holdsworth tells a great story about this which I will paraphrase: When he first started playing guitar he really dug Charlie Christian and took it upon himself to learn one of his recorded solos. He then got the opportunity to play that solo with a jazz group and did so - two times around the changes. But then the band wanted him to keep going and he had absolutely nothing. Ha! We've all been there!! It's the realization that learning what that guy played has absolutely nothing to do with where the ideas CAME from. But this is all part of learning and it's all valid. The next step of transcribing is analyzing. And while it's all good ear training, and you might actually find some inspiration in the analysis, does it get you any closer to where the ideas CAME from? I'm not sure about that. There was a guy here in the forum who did an exhaustive analysis of one of my solos a while back and all I can say is I was NOT thinking about any of those findings when I played the solo. I play by ear....... So again, never a waste of time, all good skills to have and they make you a more rounded musician. But art is not necessarily a science and creativity and inspiration are hard things to learn. Just my opinions guys, all views are welcomed. Jimmy J | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2005 |
Jimmy, see how I layed out the ground work for your treatise? I knew you could give an expanded explanation on behalf of the wide range of members we have here, with a little prodding. When I was a lad, I played the clarinet and reading was mandatory and everything. In my teen years, I taught myself quitar and bass, and I very rarely read when I play those instruments, (or I use chord cahrts and chord boxes) although I can still sight read bass lines fairly well. Go figure. Ultimately creativity is exactly that, not to be constrained and maybe enhanced with a strong reading and music theory foundation. Jeff Berlin has a new column in Bass Player with a kinder and gentler approach about a formal proccess for the playing musician. Creativity will rise to the top either way, formal training or pure inspiration. That is how we get innovation. Each one of us processes data in our own way. At this point in my life pictures are easier on my brain than books, whether it be music or gazing at the ladies!!! So I guess I kind of "hustled" you to speak further, and I am glad I did, but in a good way. After all I am a profesionoal Schmoozer (and I am told a very good one at that). In the end, your contributions to the forum are immense, and I meant what I have said about your tone and influence on me. I take full credit for idolizing the ladies, however. Keep inspiring us!! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1900 Registered: 9-2002 |
Only speaking strictly for myself here: Reading/transcribing and all the tools are a great thing to have in your toolbag, but there are lots of situations it will never be used. I was trained in classical piano for years as a kid and once (a long time ago!) was able to read both clefs like the newspaper. It was only once I transitioned to playing by ear and making crude attempts to improvise and invent that the many things I learned made sense: I never made the connection, nor could hear truly well, as long as all I had to do was read what was in front of me. And once I began to play by ear on these gigs for all these years did I ever make anything my own, good or bad, as it could only come from inside me. It was not until then that I felt like I owned my skills, and was doing something uniquely personal, good or bad. Now, I was a 'club' player, never walked into sessions or live dates with any real charts to speak of, so in my case, those skills weren't needed. Music is a huge world, and every person is in a different situation, so you can never know too much or have too many skills in your toolbox. J o e y | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2010 |
So many aspects here.... Sure, JJ, jamming and playing by ear and memory is one world we must live. Though it is not always possible, when the music is too complex, long, arranged. There is a pic of you playing Mendoza new album, with extensive charts in front of you. Even Scofield had charts of Mendoza music when playing live with the orchestra at North Sea Jazz. I think it's normal when the themes and parts are too long to be safely in your memory. Everyone get comfortable in different ways while playing. For example, my reading is so natural to me, that having all the grapes of an Alan Pasqua piece in front of me, instantly give me an idea of the possibilities and phyisical positions I have all around my piano. Transcribing your solo, is not aimed at playing it as is all the time, but expand my possibilities forcing myself to play and understand stuff I wouldn't do by instinct. Often, playing by ear, our muscolar memories win, and we tend to do what we're used to. It is when you exercise someone else's music and ideas, that you force your body and brain to move on and expand. I am not analyzing why you did that notes, by transcribing, but what and where. Not even Keith Jarret is aware of why he does when he starts his solo improvisations....but it's nice to get into what happened later. Be sure I'll come out with some other of your solos, Duncan Terrace will be the next. I love it! BTW, tubeperson, where do I find SKY Pirates? I may transcribe it for you Gabriele. | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 333 Registered: 5-2005 |
Gabriele, well-stated support of transcibing. Yes, it is challenging but very useful. Most good things in life are. For many, they feel writing music and music theory can or does inhibit their creativity. How would we have art or books without these counterparts in those fields? I would think with an embracing approach, it would actually increase creativity. Better technique enhances actual results in just about any human endeavor. Others may not benefit though and that's fine, but I bet most of those non-believers have not really tried hard enough. I will firmly agree that listening and imitating yields great results, just ask Jaco, if we could, Pat Metheny, Alan Holdsworth etc. In fact, look at how Wes Montgomery influenced Pat Metheny's playing or any great sax player has influenced Alan Holdsworth. That one should be close to JJ's heart. Every time I hear Alan's playing, I hear Coltrane and Bird etc., but with his own spin on those influences. But a more structured technique leads one to consistency, and a foundation for further creativity. One can listen to a lot of influences but make their own distinctive "sound". Wouldn't it be nice (sorry Brian Wilson) to leave that "sound" in a structured approach for the future stars, who need to listen and study the past and current greats to feed our collective minds and souls? There is terrific 3 book series of transcribed Paul Chambers solos and walking bass lines. The series details the types of notes, rhythms, and changes used by him over the chord changes. How would that stifle creativity, by being able to read and process that data? In fact, I strongly believe it furthers one's reference and technique, thus increasing creativity and the pathway to get to your sonic destination. You can always "not look" when you want that creative boost, if you choose. "Sky Pirates" is featured on The Wayne Johnson Trio album "Arrowhead". Recommended disk! It is for sale on ebay in the LP section, but if it is unopened or mint, I usually grab it. This particular recording is not on CD as far as I can tell. "Grasshopper", another recording with the same trio , including JJ is on CD. If you can prepare the transcription, that would be quite amazing. Check out JJ's solo. When I was taking some bass lessons a few years ago, my teacher and I attempted it. We got as far as 20 bars. I must admit, for an insomniac like me, this forum serves a wonderful purpose. Big Red makes great point about the use of one's ear. Especially for improvising, and group playing this is mandatory, as is having a great sense of time. But why only use some tools? Why not expand one's universe (sorry Timothy Leary) and unleash even more understanding of one's craft? Joey, why lose out on session work, or substituting for another player on a gig, where Fake books may be needed to play the set, or wherever reading is necessary? Why shy away from the challenge, the testing of one's skill set, etc?. Ever wonder why most people who read a book, then see a movie based on that book, feel disappointed more than satisfied? And we are not talking about the special effects, here, it is the content I am referring to. It is the prodding of one's imagination, and using reading and transcribing as some of the tools to do this. Playing by ear is very useful, but often those who rely solely on that cannot integrate easily with the rest of the band. They are so consumed in themselves, they forget they are in a group. Remember the old joke about the "way too busy" bass player jamming with a band, and another member says, one of us needs a bass player? | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1901 Registered: 9-2002 |
Why? Because it was too personal for me to be playing somebody else's ideas. For me, it was the challenge of doing it right here / right now. And I'd come from years of playing what was on the page, not the other way 'round. So I 'shyed away from it' as I'd already been there / done that, and I'd had quite enough. IF you're playing someone else's charts / tabs / sheet music, there's always the implied suggestion to play it the way THEY heard it: I didn't always agree. . . . by the time I walked away from my classical training, I respected the tradition, but had grown to hate how rigidly it crammed interpretation into a narrow funnel of playing things the way they'd always been played. I found this strangling, as if you could only view a famous painting only by everyone who ever saw it standing ONLY on the same 'X' painted on the floor in front of it. But I played almost exclusively dates where it was not required. And again, this is just me talking about my experience, different from amyone else. J o e y | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2005 |
First Joey I love ya man. You are a major contributor here and I am grateful to you for that. I would not have attempted to adjust my Alembics without your posts. So I am loving the fact I will use that forum post "against" your why and give you the "Because", but first a break from the action. Ok Joey, first, remember Jim Bouton's book about baseball - "Ball Four"? The next one he wrote which was a follow up on the same topic was "I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally". To steal from Shakespere - "Too personal or not too personal"! Since you ask why, let me respond: Because! I have thanked you on this very forum a number of times for your most awesome post about setting up the Alembic bass. And what form of communication did you use? Written aka transcription, so to speak. Your own validation of my point. Certainly I did not limit my digestion of your post as the only data available, it would have been great to speak with you while I was adjusting away, or have a video of the process. Not that I am invalidating yours, if you read my post carefully, most of my learing on guitar and bass has been through listening and imitation. Let me offer that if you had "posted a video" instead of your written post, it may have gotten me to the same point, perhaps not. The written language is more useful, since it is repeatable and consistent as a reference. I can deviate that as I "feel it" but it gives a terrific starting point. Let me give you another example. As a younger ruffian learning our craft, I aurally transcribed or better yet derived "Donna Lee" the Charle Parker tune that Jaco made so famous. Many years passed by. If I tried to recall the visual memory of the listening as a means to play the part, at that later point, it would have taken longer than if I could (and still can) read the transcriptions available. I like to think that if you can read the notes, it gives you a better foundation to feel the inflections of the player being imitated. Reading music does not rob one of feel, despite the excuses we hear against reading music. You either have it, develop it or don't get it. Now I could just say "Feel this" but only in person over single malt (just a joke don't fret about it)! Seriously, I have used your own words to illustrate my point, and then given a further example of how the reading can help recall the lost physical technique of the playing. Here is one to ponder - I had asked JJ if he had a transcription of his solo on Sky Pirates. He was kind enough to reply, but it was not available. I guess my question to him, and all of us to ponder (the situation) is - if he could read a transcription of that solo, or even the arrangement, after not playng it for let's say 10 - 15 or more years, would he recall it quicker by aural memory, or written reading, then enhancing it with "Feel This"? I think it is a fair question and each of us might differ on that, but in my eperience, if I can read, I can "travel" more efficiently. Otherwise why would they make GPS units for us to read if we could feel it? By enabling reading, I can get back to a reference point, then listen for feel and inflection. Therefore, one may be a feel player, and not use the written form, and be a great player, but you cannot then particiapte in a gig where reading is needed. Gigs are hard enough to get, why limit your possibilities. Respectfully submitted, your Tubeeness Joey, still love ya man. And JJ, you are quite the inspiration, no negativity given, just a passing thought as I run out to see my son compete (as opposed to reading about it in the newspaper or see a video. Live experience does rule. Reading counts. Have a single malt, on me. Sorry for typoes gotta go!!!! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10839 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm still trying to increase the percentage of occurrences where my fingers actually land cleanly between the frets. If I can get that percentage up to some acceptable level, then getting those occurrences in an order that sounds musically interesting will hopefully be a more pleasing listening experience. | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 209 Registered: 9-2009 |
I’ve got to get my two cents in here and agree with Gabriele's first statement... "So many aspects here..." There is reading, feeling, and what might be most important, listening. Add to that recent information from research cognitive psychology suggesting that while there is some commonality, the neural circuits that we develop over time that allow us to engage in a variety of behaviors, including playing the way that we do, are NOT exactly the same. Rather, there are subtle differences in them between individuals. Those subtle neurological differences may make it possible for the best to read, feel, and listen at the same time. Unfortunately, that’s not me. I can only engage in one or two of the three with any degree of competence. When playing with my son (a guitarist who at 22 years of age is a lot more capable as a musician than I ever will be) I typically start out playing new pieces via the reading route. The comment I all too often hear from him at the end of a piece is, “Dad you got the notes and timing right, but everything else is missing.” In order to force his old man to listen and feel, he’s taken to hiding charts after the first couple of times we’ve been through a piece. Initially, I thought it was his imagination. Until of course he recorded some of our sessions and asked me to identify which tunes (that we both knew well) I had played in the presence and absence of music. I was surprised at the difference because it wasn’t subtle as I might have expected, but quite clear. Of course, he now feels he is justified at hiding charts after one or two times through a piece, not yet clearly understanding that as one ages, some aspects of cognition, including one’s memory, start to go. |
