| Author | Message | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 401 Registered: 8-2008 |
Dave, That's all any of us are trying to do really, and being able to glance at the fingerboard (away from the music) can be helpful. Ha! Yes Brian, good story. The joke used to be: "Can you read?" "Yeah, but not enough to effect my playing". It takes a long time to be able to do all those things simultaneously. Just a couple more comments here as you already know my spin on these subjects. Interesting that our reading / not reading discussion is mostly between "readers". I have certainly used reading A LOT throughout my career and it would have taken a different path if I didn't have that skill. That said, my two primary jobs over the last few years; James Taylor and Allan Holdsworth are not reading gigs. Meaning there was no "book" for either band - for whatever that's worth. I made my own cheat sheets for both groups but the music is "transferred" to the players by listening as opposed to reading. My main point is to say that you should never judge any musician by whether or not they can read. The examples I named above should make that clear. I'll add Stevie Wonder and George Shearing to further my point. (Excuse my ignorance, there probably is braille music notation but we can assume these two didn't use charts during live performances.) I'm old school and still think of music is an aural art form (Lady Gaga aside). The creative results are to be enjoyed by simply listening. I don't need video of Yoyo Ma to enjoy his playing of almost any piece of music. And while we're talking Yoyo… That guy can play anything that is written down on the paper and make it beautiful. As with many classically trained musicians he does not ad lib. Don't invite him to your jam session unless you write out the melodies! And yet, if you ever see him touring either as a guest soloist or with one of his World music groups, chances are he has memorized the music involved. Why? Because performing music does not require reading music and it seems his choice is to be able to close his eyes and make beautiful sound. It would be interesting to know if there were ever any famous "European classical" musicians who didn't read… On the other hand, I don't think classical Indian music has notation, though I could be wrong. Gabriele, Vince Mendoza wrote very specific parts for all of us. As an arranger he "heard" his music in a specific way and our job was to comply with only a tiny bit of individual input from each musician. They were also long compositions not easily memorized even for the soloists, thus Scofield with his charts… Steve, Holdsworth's soloing style definitely has roots in Coltrane and that cross-instrumental influence is rare and makes for some unusual results! He's a one-off. I can't really agree with your book / movie analogy though. Written music might be our "script" but the audio performance that results is our "art" meant to inspire people's imagination. And for pop music the poetry of the lyrics might be the thing and the music just the "setting". You asked whether a transcription would help me remember something I had played? I'd be better off just listening because for one thing, most transcriptions aren't quite right. I mean you can notate absolutely anything including the player's mistakes ("rush these notes", "fret rattle here") but if it was a solo of mine then I would have the advantage of knowing what I was TRYING to play and could get to that much quicker by listening than by looking at it. My initial reaction to a transcription of one of my own solos is absolute shock. Really? I did THAT? So yes, you could transcribe a Van Halen or Hendrix solo (could either of them read music?) with every nuance notated and then study it and practice it until you could reproduce it almost exactly. Good exercise I guess but to what end? Those two guys probably never played the same solo twice…… OK, sorry for the lengthy spiel. All is swell, best to everybody, keep playing. Jimmy J | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1260 Registered: 10-2006 |
B.B King once answered The Question "Yeah, but just enough to confuse me." Peter | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 358 Registered: 5-2005 |
Good discussion and civil as well. My point is that if you read to get the basics, then it would be easier to get the feel (We all have duck notes some intentional some not). If you have a ballpark framework (transcriptions etc.), then you can "embellish" or input your own feel. I am sure you do not play the same solo exactly the same way every time. Certainly when I play, I am not always reading, but if you ant to broaden your opportunities, reading does help with that. One point of contention, how do you know if Yo Yo Ma can or cannot improvise? I would bet he could. He certainly plays with feel (especially when not reading the notes) How about Ron Carter, a classically trained bassist who pursued jazz due to the discrimination placed against him in the classical world. He may be one of the greatest acoustic jazz bass improvisers. Even James Jamerson had classical training, he just felt his way to Motown and thank G-d for that! | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1782 Registered: 2-2005 |
I no longer consider myself a reader. My skills have atrophied considerably due to playing covers by ear for these many years. I've decided it is not worth the work to regain those skills as, for me anyway, it cuts into the joy of playing. That being said I do still find a chart or transcription useful when I have trouble hearing an important hook of a song. There are certain tunes that need to have the hook played correctly or you lose the feel. Keith | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 359 Registered: 5-2005 |
I believe that both skills are helpful, but some can only use one. The more skills the more merriment. I just do not buy the argument that reading robs one of feel. You either have "feel" or you must try to learn it somehow. As Jeff Berlin might say ..... Feel this!!!! | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2012 |
An artist only needs to do what he or she feels advances their art. However, being a professional musician requires that you are prepared to work. How many gigs do you cut yourself out of if you don't read? Steve Vai got his gig with Zappa by sending him a transcription of "The Black Page". He also backed that up by being able to play like a "Mother" as well. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 402 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yes Steve and all, I am certainly not saying that reading makes you any LESS of a player. On the contrary, anything you do on the instrument is good for whatever else you might want to do on the instrument. The above joke is meant as a joke. Reading is a very handy skill which opens up many opportunities to expand your musical world - and WORK as a musician. I highly recommend learning how to read. I'm simply pointing out that there are many many great and inspiring musicians who don't have that skill and we should not judge them as any less accomplished or influential. So I don't consider reading mandatory to making music ... but I highly recommend it as a useful skill. I've worked with Yoyo Ma a couple of times with JT and my experience was that he is a "charts" guy. But what he can do with the dots on the page is simply ridiculous... If by "feel" we're talking about "emotional content" then this guy is overflowing with it. And this happens as he reads the written music so right there we have those two aspects working in harmony. Shall we dismiss him because if can't "swing" or blow over rhythm changes? I THINK NOT! Haha! If by "feel" you're talking about "groove" then that's a different animal. Those of us who have passed through classical training know that groove is not necessarily a part of that world. We're taught that the dynamics and pulse of the tempo should constantly be shifting - going somewhere or coming from somewhere - stretchy! So Carter and Jamerson didn't learn everything from their classical training, that's for dang sure. I understand that Jamerson and others in that rhythm section were jazzers too. It's so amazing how that all came together as it did! Best to all, Jimmy J | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1783 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, I haven't really lost any gigs due to not reading. I do not do this professionally and mainly play your typical bar and downtown festival stuff (Classic Rock, Beach Music, Blues, etc). Most of these require a set of standards that everybody plays and for those songs I don't know I learn from a recording. I also do some occasional session work for a friend that records regional gospel and country groups. These are quite often standards or the folks being recorded provide the chords and leave the bass part up to me. I wasn't trying to imply that reading was a useless skill but that it is not the holy grail, so to speak, of making music. That part comes from who your are in my opinion. I recall an interview some years back where Adrian Belew talks about not being able to read music and getting the guitar gig with Frank Zappa. I also know classical musicians some of which are reader interpreters and others that can also improvise. I think it really boils down to what gives a person the most enjoyment in playing music and what skills does one need to accomplish that. Keith | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2012 |
I understand completely. I think we're all saying the same thing. Different strokes for different folks. Great examples; Zappa hired Belew and Vai for their unique skill sets. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1906 Registered: 9-2002 |
For classical musicians (and I also count myself a huge fan of Yo Yo Ma), their 'improvisation' is really the interpretation of the piece they're playing. This is good and bad, as since the classical catalog consists of a lot of 'standards' so to speak for various instruments or ensembles or orchestras, one can 'judge' whose version is 'best', as if that's really possible or useful. And since these pieces are written and no improvisation is used, it can almost get like comparing lap times or quarterback ratings or RBI's: To me this is an absurd concept when it comes to music, but since these pieces are all written out . . . . . But then again, for all I know, YYM is home right now playing obbligatos over a recording of 'School Days'. J o e y | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2010 |
Written music, once upon a time, was the only "recording" media. Since modern recording is possible, we can share music with no score at all. We will never know how Bach was improvising on his Cembalo, and he did a lot. But we can still play and listen to his music thanks to his scores. Writing down your solos, Jimmy, let me see a different perspective about how your brain and soul organized the notes into a musical concept. Then I can put aside the chart and play with some new knoweledge and inspiration. No matter what's the way you put down music into written symbols, we need a way to easily get into a piece of music without having to listen to it again everytime we don't remember it. And to leave the composition viable to anyone in the future. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1261 Registered: 10-2006 |
To tie the movie anthology & YYM to just knowing how to read, your local high school can put on Death Of A Salesman, and the kid in the lead can recite the part of Willie Loman perfectly - not missing a word or comma. Doesn't mean he's giving the same performance Dustin Hoffman did. Peter (who will read this after some sleep to see if it makes sense) | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 360 Registered: 5-2005 |
Joey, we should all be "Yo Yo ing over an obligato". Groove and feel are two distinct traits. I think of Rocco Prestia (funkier than most slappers, and he does not go slap happy) that reading is not enough, and I would argue in that case listening and trying to emulate works better. I've spent most of my bass playing life trying to really borrow and emulate his groove. I have also seen him in concert and watched videos (a must do for all bassist who want to funkify). Perhaps we all see the pros and cons of both. I just wanted to make clear that reading does not rob one of feel, and that as a musician, you may not have to read to get gigs, just you can get more gigs if you read (and desire to get those gigs that require reading). Jimmy, a special thanks to you, as a working bassist of the highest order, for participating in this discussion (I thought you would say it was unfair of me to bring up Ron Carter et. al. but it seemed fair to me). By the way, does (or did) your father read music? Just a thought. Please keep us in your loop, I cannot tell you how much we appreciate it. And as much as I look for the Arrowhead album, I also hunt down the first Flim and the BB's direct to disk album as well. I have all of the other releases on C (what's a CD? Vinyl rules!!!!! Cosmic Cowboy, think about how many performances one would have to listen to just to get the part down, then more time putting one's own spin (or the director's really) in order to play a part learned without a script. I am not referring to the closet actors that we all portray for our favorite movie roles. The real deal is much more involved, and can you imagine a movie without a script, except for Spinal Tap which was incredible when you think about it That is the exception not the rule. Once one learns "rules' scales' theory, cliche's, they then "forget" them to perform. Quite a concept reality?! I think that expresses what Jimmy J has offered to us, and I would absolutely agree with that. Otherwise, robots could make for a band (and unfortunately, unless we continue to innovate, they will). | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 212 Registered: 9-2009 |
I'd definitely agree that there are pluses (pros) as well as minuses (cons) to each of the approaches that have been discussed and agree with Steve about how fortunate we are to have someone as respected as you, Jimmy, providing us with your insights. Getting back to my original theses, I personally wasn't suggesting that, "reading robs one of feel," but only that, based on what I've been told by several individuals who have quite frequently listened to me play that, "reading robs ME of feel" as well as the ability to really listen well to my fellow musicians. I have no idea as to whether this is a result of my learning to read while playing a different instrument; hanging up my bass for many years before rediscovering the joy of playing with others, or the way my neurological circuits developed (I'm a research-based child psychologist with a social learning theory bent and we tend to be linear thinkers for the most part). Regardless of the reasons, it does have an impact on how I learn and play new pieces. While YYM may be able to sight-read a piece and play it with feeling, I simply don't have those capacities. The "feeling," at least for me, comes to the fore after I've played a piece a sufficient number of times to put the mechanics of playing on automatic pilot. Now please, don't ask me about whether I can rub my stomach and chew gum at the same time. I haven't tried and at this point would be fearful of what the results would do to my ego. | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 362 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hammer, I have several psychiatrists as clients (I am an employee benefits consultant), so I feel at home with how you think. Thank G-d for single malt!! Have someone else rub your tummy. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1266 Registered: 10-2006 |
Today (last night, whatever - I hate night shift when it ain't music!) I remembered an "Our Boarding House With Major Hoople" comic from the 1920s (no, I didn't see it new); lady is playing piano to impress a rich dude, and says "You know, I play by ear." Remarks the smart-ass kid "Why don't you try it that way then? It sounds somethin' awful when you use your fingers!" Peter | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1244 Registered: 5-2002 |
Reading and playing with feeling mostly takes practice. When it starts to flow, it's a great feeling. I used to have a minimal amount of that skill during my oboe playing days, but never totally got there with bass, although I enjoyed reading when I did it more often. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3243 Registered: 10-2002 |
Found some cool footage of Jimmy playing with terry bozzio at the baked potato in january this year while I was looking for info about the place. I'm amazed Terry got his drums on stage. graeme (Message edited by jacko on September 05, 2012) | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 404 Registered: 8-2008 |
Well, I'm not actually on the stage but standing in the aisle and need to move to let the waitress by. And that's Terry's "small" kit. The guy makes some music on it though! Once a month Jon Daversa brings his big band into this club. That's like half the room's capacity right there. Good fun. Jimmy J (Message edited by jimmyj on September 06, 2012) | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3255 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just back from seeing Bonnie Raitt and Mavis Staples at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. What a great show. HOWEVER, the night before we met up with Jimmy at the Baked potato and heard him play some fantastic Jazz with the Mike Miller allstars. Now THAT was a show! It was really good to meet up with you again Jimmy. You have a standing invitation to join us in Scotland anytime you want. Graeme. p.s. Jane Fonda was at the greek and took a dog... they wouldn't even allow US to take a small camera in :-( | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10897 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well, as long as the dog wasn't taking pictures. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 408 Registered: 8-2008 |
It was great to see Graeme and his Mrs. again. They got themselves a full dose of Hollywood: Ms. Fonda and her dog, Darth Vader on his coffee break, stuck in 8 lanes of traffic in an American made muscle car with the top down, and many notes played fast and loud at the Baked Potato. You experienced just about all we have to offer in Southern Cal! I look forward to your Bay Area report. Jimmy J | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1296 Registered: 10-2006 |
Bonnie and Mavis????? I can only imagine! Peter | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3165 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here are a few video's of Jimmy doing some funky disco grooves with Michael Ruff and friends. I've just been watching some and it's interesting the tone I'm hearing between the B- string and the others has a nice natural balance unlike some basses I've heard where moving to the low B string is almost like the string is alien to the rest of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs67ZHXj2vg&feature=relmfu Nice grooving Jimmy. :-) I'm saving these for reference tones for me to get on my SII. Jazzyvee | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1307 Registered: 5-2002 |
I know what you mean about a B string that seems like it's from another bass. When I got my Modulus Q6 all together (a long story, it was built from parts), I went through almost every string manufacturer I could find to get a good balance across the whole instrument. The two brands that worked for me were Fodera and DR. The Foderas sounded and felt great, but within 4 sets of music I had broken two of them. The DR Sunbeams sounded just as good and feel better to me and they last forever. It feels and sounds like the same bass from the lowest B to the highest C. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 694 Registered: 2-2011 |
+1 on Jimmy's tone! It is also my reference tone every time I set my amp up! | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 409 Registered: 8-2008 |
Wow, ancient pre-cell-phone-camera video. 16mm? Obviously not from my silent film era. Ha! That was a fun semi-organized jam band and I always thought Ruff was a talented guy who deserved a shot but just never quite caught it... Thanks for the comments on the bass tone. I know what you mean, on some basses the B-string sounds extreme and unrelated to the rest of the instrument. And it must depend on all the usual factors because my "live" bass has a stronger B than my "studio" bass even though they are almost identical. Same strings, same electronics, same general body and neck... Differences in the exact mass, the wood grain, and stiffness must be the factors. That said, I also think you learn and adjust to the string balance of your own instrument. If you have to start a run up high on the E string for instance, you know that note is going to leap out because the string has more mass over the pickup... I think you also learn the dynamics of the different strings and play accordingly just as you learn to avoid any dead spots on the neck. Experimenting with string types and gauges is always a good start. You want to begin by making it as even as possible and then let your ears control your fingers for the fine adjustments. Cheers to all, Jimmy J | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1932 Registered: 9-2002 |
And a bit of tweaking can help: Just looking at the sizes of the strings, it's obvious that the B and E have lots more metal in them than the D and G, so you may want to run your pickups lower in the body on the bass side and higher on the high side. This doesn't always help as it's string dependent to a certain extent, but it may be a strategy to try for some of you. Do this with NEW strings: Those you put on last Summer for the Keg Race gig are not 'honest' by now, you won't get a clean representation with those. And remember your Alembic height adjustment drill for all non-Activator (Series, FatBoys, AXY, MXY) shell shapes. Loosen the screw you can see FIRST, then reach through the hole and loosen the 'buried screw'. And when you tighten them, snug is enough. DON'T tighten them like an auto part, you may break the 'ears' of the shell ! J o e y | ||
| gbulfon
Junior Username: gbulfon Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hi JJ, Back to the Allan's chart you posted last july of Lanyard Loop solo section. I finally had time to go on transcribing, going through the solo section...........amazing!!!  The long solo introduction makes you think it will be the base harmony sequence of the solo......but.....once the solo starts, you end up with a modified version!! Grrrrrr!!! But hopefully it then continues with the initial exposition.... A good exercise for memory!! But. To the point. I really can't find any link between the chart you posted and the transcribed solo section........nothing!! Please.....please.....help...... The solo intro starts in Eb, while the chart starts with Cx/Fx...... Please..........there must be a way of reading!!  Gabriele. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 411 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hi Gabriele, Well you've certainly chosen a complicated ear training exercise. One of the crazier solo sections, with the metric modulation and all... If you've figured out the "long solo intro" you already have most of it. On the second time through the sequence there are alternate chords. I think of the main section as 22 bars in two sets of 11. Actually, 7+4 and 7+4 again. Once the solo starts (which is the second time through the sequence) the chord in bar 3 & 4 is different, a different bass note in bar 13, different chord in 14 & 15. Bar 21 & 22 are a 1st or 2nd ending with a different chord the 2nd time going on to the time change "link". So it's like this: Allan plays the chords the 1st time through and then starts soloing on the 2nd time (with the alternate changes above). We do the time change "link" and we're back to the 1st time through - the chords you already have. 1st ending at bar 22 and back for more solo over the sequence with the alternate chords again. Then Allan switches out of soloing and back to playing chords at the time change and we take the coda which links us back to the head. Now regarding the symbols I've posted above, as I said Allan's notation refers to the scale and not the chord which the rest of us would normally write. So although I think of the first chord of the sequence as a B-flat over E-flat (which may not really be correct) Allan writes Cx over Fx. That should give you a clue. My E-flat somehow equals his Fx... I don't understand why but that's his way. I don't think his charts account for how long we stay on a scale, but I'm not sure. The "2x" likely refers to the alternate chord on the 2nd time through ... but I'm only guessing. Working on taking down the tune is one thing but don't try to work out Allan's charts too or your head will explode! Jimmy J | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2012 |
Does Alan tune down a whole step? | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 412 Registered: 8-2008 |
John, Allan uses standard tuning but he did have a couple baritone instruments at one time. One of those may have been tuned in 5ths. And one was named "Boris". Ha! Jimmy J | ||
| gbulfon
Member Username: gbulfon Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hello JJ, I've seen you're gonna play with Billy Childs and Joe Heredia this weekend!! Can you tell me some more about this project? I'd love to be there, but...you know, I'm so far.......  Also, I've been listening to the latest Chad album: you're blasting here!!! You're more pervasive then ever! About this CD, I'd ask you a few clues: - the second piece, where you play continuous 4ths rythmic patterns, is it improvised or written? - one of the last tracks, the "kind of guitar" sound, that cannot be Allan. Me and Franco were trying to guess if it was Cox with synth sound or you with some kind of device! Great playing, as always ;) Gabriele. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 415 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Gabriele, I've worked with Childs on and off for many years including a few of his recordings. Challenging music! He has a strong left hand so he writes some wild unison lines. I don't always take the live gigs because it's a real commitment to relearn the bass parts. But it's great stuff and we should have fun tomorrow night. At least we will feel like we've accomplished something if we live through the set. Ha! I'm going to suggest to Chad that he post a pdf of his record's credits on his website. (I think ALL Artists should do that these days since music purchased online rarely includes credits... This drives me crazy, especially on jazz records with several players. End of rant.) As to your questions... I think you mean the 3rd track "Bent Bayou" with the funny 4ths bass pattern? Yes that was an ad lib. Without Allan's crazy harmonies it would be just a simple wobbly groove. Plus we are treated to some very unusual "clean" soloing from Allan. Cool! Several of the tracks on this record are improvs. Track 13 (of 14), with the envelope "kind of guitar" sound, is only Jim Cox (keys) and Chad. Two other tracks were built upside-down; they started as improvs with Chad and Jim and then I added bass later which made them almost sound like organized songs. It's a nice collection of things and I'm glad Chad was finally able to finish it. Thanks for the support. Jimmy J | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3219 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was wondering Jimmy, what were the circumstances that led to your choosing to play Alembic? I haven't read anything about that on the forum. Jazzyvee | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3220 Registered: 6-2002 |
Double post. (Message edited by jazzyvee on November 15, 2012) | ||
| gbulfon
Member Username: gbulfon Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2010 |
Well, how was the gig with Billy? Someone who could be there told it was awesome, and I'm sure he's right! But how did you feel it? Back to Chad album. The Fifth is wonderful, your bass solo is delicious, Allan follows you crying outstanding phrases. Overall, the album needs more listenings than any other Chad ones. Every time I get more confortable with the structures, identify themes, melodies and chords. And it sounds better every time. This time, it's like Chad got back to the Atavachron era, sounding more like an Allan work. I usually could instantly recognize Chad's way of writing and conceiving melodies and patterns. And I love it. This time is like he moved into Allan way. Still lovable. The only thing I miss, is Cox and his unbelievable organs we all know so well in forty reasons. They were totally a different direction than any other organist! Cox didn't play that much here, isn't it? I'm finishing: are you ever coming out with some work of yours?? GB | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 418 Registered: 8-2008 |
Should I double reply? OK Jazzyvee, thanks for asking. I'll try not to make this too long-winded... I was always a wire-head and had a rather dangerous (in hindsight) electrical shop of my own as a young kid... I know what 120vac feels like and yet somehow I survived. The first electric bass I ever tried was a Fender P owned by Wayzata High School and brought home by my older brother who I think was playing it in jazz band at the time. (Remember when schools had music programs?) The first bass I owned was a Kalamazoo by Gibson. The next seems to have been an EB2 though I don't remember much about that one. I think it was green... Then came a Gibson Les Paul with low impedance pickups... By that time I was doing some session work and on a whim had that bass modified with a built-in Jensen DI transformer feeding an XLR connector mounted on the bottom edge. I could walk into the studio and plug the mic cable directly into the bass. Apparently I was already out of my mind at that young age. HA! Then I was hanging out at the local music store, as young players tend to do, and remember saying to salesman Jim Harms "it's too bad nobody makes a bass like my Gibson but long scale". To which he replied "I know a company in California that can do anything!". So in '75 I ordered a Series 4-string through that music store and that was the start of my Alembic experience. The 5-string experiment started the next year, in '76. I've probably mentioned this here before but my dad played bass and was also a piano tuner. His tuning technique included hitting the piano keys very hard to help "seat" the strings. I recall sitting UNDER the grand as he tuned the bass strings and that may have been the sonic imprint that I went after as I looked for my own bass tone later in life. Once I got to Alembic I just stayed there. I still don't own any other brands. It may not be everybody's cup of tea but I guess it works for me! Best to all, Jimmy J | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 419 Registered: 8-2008 |
Gabrielle, (You posted while I was typing...) The Childs gig was pretty fun. No major musical train-wrecks and some nice musical moments. Heredia, Shep and BC all played great. Yes, Chad has put together another nice record, this is an interesting collection of tracks. Thanks for your kind comments we're glad you like it. Not as many "compositions" here and the band improvisations create some unusual musically twists. Candy for your ears! No JJ solo project. NO! I prefer to play for others! Jimmy J | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1335 Registered: 10-2006 |
(Remember when schools had music programs?) Yeah - now, I'm glad to say! At the HS I attended in SE OH 4 decades back we had a choir & a band; they shared a "stage"/rehearsal space that was a hole in the gym wall (and had class concurrantly with PE classes going on in said gym), & wore uniforms/robes 10-20 years old; the football team got new jerseys every year (and the art room didn't have a sink). The HS I subbed at the last few years has a SOTA perfoming arts wing bigger than my HS, with SR gear as good as most of what I used to make my living on. Yeah, the jock wing is bigger - but not by much. It's really pretty sweet. Of course, it's also not in SE OH. Peter | ||
| gbulfon
Member Username: gbulfon Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2010 |
LOL JJ, you did it again! The "double elle"! Would be nice to know what keeps you away from composing for yourself. Actually you compose everytime you play, but...you know what I mean Gabriele (one elle) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1355 Registered: 5-2002 |
My high school had great music program. When I was there, it was run by an ex-Airforce sergeant, who was totally on him game. My whole school had 136 students for 9-12 and maybe 34 or 40 faculty and staff. Chris Carlson would recruit damn near the whole school for the choir and assembled a pretty good chamber orchestra to go with it. We played a wide range of material (admittedly from the classical tradition) ranging from the pre-Baroque all the way to 20 century pieces with tone clusters. One of the highest points of my life was performing the B-Minor Mass first oboe part with our school musicians supplemented with a few ringers. There is nothing like sitting in the front row of that orchestra surrounded by the choir and the pipe organ thundering away up in the reaches of the church, all with the majesty of Bach swirling all around you. Perhaps part of the ecstatic nature was due to the fact that the oboe is a bitch of an instrument to play and the part is crazy relentless. The next year, Carlson moved on (to drive a big rig for Digital Equipment Corporation. Dude had a weird career path but he was righteous. He'd come visit the school in downtown Boston or up at the school retreat in the back woods of New Hampshire.) His replacement was an alum of the school, fresh out of undergrad, who was all gung ho. That fall, we were preparing the Handel Messiah for the Christmas concert and at the first rehearsal she scheduled dress rehearsals for the final concert and told us that if we missed any of them, we'd fail (conversely, Carlson would schedule rehearsal and inspire us to do whatever we could to make it happen and be prepared, including getting charts months in advance). Now, the Messiah is OK for what it is, but it is deadly boring for the oboe. Rather than a voice with continuous commentary like the Bminor, it is always doubling a second violin, a flute, or third viola. It's essentially background color. So, I told her that my rock band had a show the night of the second dress rehearsal and was not movable. I told that I thought that she should let me off because I was a mere background in the Messiah and in my band, I was 1/3 of the action (a power trio! It was the 70s). She told me if I missed, I'd get an F. I missed it. I played the concert perfectly, I had perfect attendance for the whole rest of the semester. We had a meeting she told me she was putting an A on my transcript and that there was an F between. I lost all faith in her credibility and it renewed my sense that rock and roll was a lot more fun! Bass wins! I still miss that oboe, though. It was a Lorée, the Alembic of oboes. I never got that great at the oboe, but what great experience! There was also some really fun chamber music, especially the modern stuff. I often tried to instill my rock bands with the rehearsal ethic of the classical groups, but it was a losing battle. Oh, yeah, I remember one of Carlson's final exams. He sat us down and had us transcribe the Brandenburg #4, first movement, by ear. We hadn't done a single transcription all semester and I was totally lost. I thought it a bit unfair. I had never studied ear training or done a transcription. There were some big holes in my education. Jazz class was even more hopeless for me. I couldn't tell Parker from Monk from Herbie Hancock from Lawrence Welk. Hopeless. One of my classmates was Alex McCabe, a seriously talented player and another was Jeremy Berlin. The teacher was Jordan Sandke who had with a variety of folks, from Howlin' Wolf to Jaki Byard (who coincidentally was a jamming partner of my uncle and spent a lot time hanging jamming at my dad's house when he was 12, 13, 14.). I was in over my head and tried to bow out gracefully. I wish I could go back and do it now! OK, I apologize for the meandering. | ||
| jcdlc72
Intermediate Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2009 |
Maybe Carlson's replacement should have staged Bach's Magnificat afterwards, and then the Oboe would have a more prominent place. In my HS (first of the two I attended), there was a Choir and a "Estudiantina" (a students ensamble with Guitars, Mandolins, Venezuelan Cuatro, and... well, I entered as a guitar player, and on the second rehearsal I saw the double bass lying on the instruments room, and I fell in love with it instantly, I was 13 and had been studying music and playing guitar for about 4-5 years already. So, after a couple months the group had also a Bass Player in me). The repertoire was mostly Folklore and popular Latin American tunes, so nothing strictly academic here. Although in the conservatory I first studied there was an orchestra, I never joined it (I regret it now), and in the music school I went afterwards the staff were mostly young Berklee and GIT graduates (EARLY 80s, direct Diorio and Roberts alumni) which encouraged the formation of small groups, but with no formal School Ensemble. Anyway, on my HS the Jock wing was almost The Entire School, and the small space the Choir and the "Estudiantina" shared, had no facilities whatsoever, nor SR of any kind (The school's theatre, looking somewhat like a small Spanish Zarzuela theatre from early 20th century, had the likes of a mid-sized Home Stereo with a small microphone mixer. This in the early-mid 80s, at one of the biggest public schools in the very heart of an Oil Producing Country's capital city, mind you!). This group reunited earlier this year, 26 years after the last time we played together (which was in 1986) for a school's anniversary event, and had the opportunity to play again under the baton of our very same conductor back then, a renowned local Choir conductor and composer. It felt nice not to have forgotten the tunes, the feel... but most of all to compare the "Then and Now" feel of it, with all the water passed under the bridge. It was my start as a bass player, too, and therefore was significant. The old double bass is still there, but WAY TOO BEATEN OFF even for me to be played (It's hard to describe, broken headstock badly fixed, cracks on the sides, replacement bridge unadjusted and therefore WAY TOO HIGH for playing anything on those (yuck!) RUSTY STRINGS!. I swallowed hard, and got ahold of my trusty Gallien MB200 and one of my basses, and did rehearsals and the show on this. At the second HS I attended, there was a Marching Band only, no other music program whatsoever, and those guys insisted more on military formation than the music being played. The Band's storage room had several trumpets and trombones, even an Euphonium and a couple marching Tubas, which nobody played, since nobody seemed to have the slightest musical education. It was mostly drums, three girls playing xylophones, and the two instructors and a friend of them, on two trombones and a trumpet. Then it happened what had to happen... As I entered the storage room (again...) I fell in love with the Trombone, and I found myself learning Trombone, and the basics of Trumpet (and LOVED the Euphonium! I still want one!), and devised a way to teach the oh-so-basic tunes to a couple friends, by drawing the piston's positions, so we grew a little in the Horn Section. The instructors knew I was a formal music student, and so they drew me out of the military formation practice every time to help me improve on the instrument, and we ended up always talking about Jazz (It was the 80s... these guys were the ones to introduce me to some part of the fun I was missing, until then I was all about DiMeola, Metheny, Ponty, Corea, or more traditional sounds like Brubeck, Davis, they game me loads of cassettes with Spyro Gyra, Watanabe, Bob James's and GRP Big Bands, Ritenour, and of course... FLIM AND THE BBs!). I ended up quitting the marching band after a year, when I got tired of the older guys trying to "get military" on me. Heck, by then I was already earning money making music, and was not interested at all in following nobody's orders, when I could be enjoying the music I made ... and its benefits. . And to think I wanted to play Bob James's "Touchdown" with the marching band... :P | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 420 Registered: 8-2008 |
Sorry Gabri-L, I never could speL very weL... (are we even now?) Good stories my friends. Those musically formative years were, well, formative for all of us! The way we play and listen is directly connected to every musical experience we've had along the way. My HS band director was a great and inspirational character. Jimmy J | ||
| klinkepeter
Member Username: klinkepeter Post Number: 84 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hey Jimmy, check the series II showcase, i got a very nice series II shorty recently, a good bargain so i couldn´t resist..., but it´s worth it, this bass is awesome! By the way, sketchy conquers russia in december, this time not with a quartett, we do it with some different orchesters, i´m looking forward to! it was really a pleasure to meet u at the potatoes, Peter | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 714 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hey Jimmy, I'm finally going to get to go to The Baked Potato next month! I'm flying in Dec. 14 for the weekend to take my son to a Chargers game & we are going to see John Daversa's Big Band that night. I see you are playing with Terry Bozzio on Dec. 1 & Allen Hinds on Dec. 11. I wish I was going to be there to catch one of your shows! Maybe someday! Rusty | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3294 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rusty - You should change your plans by a few days. It would be well worth it to see Jimmy play at the potato. The sound there is excellent and you can hear every note perfectly. I still can't imagine Bozzio's drumkit in that place though - there'd barely be room for the audience never mind the rest of the band :-) | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 715 Registered: 2-2011 |
I wish I could Jacko, but my oldest son just made Head Band Director at a brand new school this year & he is having his Christmas concert Dec. 13, so I can't come out before the 14th. I don't want to miss his 1st concert as a Head Band Director. I'm flying out to take my other son to the San Diego Chargers football game on Dec. 16, so I can't change my plans & go a different weekend. The band we are seeing on the 14th is a 17 piece Big Band, so I imagine it will be a VERY intimate setting!! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3295 Registered: 10-2002 |
17 piece! That's going to be a really tight squeeze. Hope you have a really great trip anyway - and congrats to your other son on his promotion :-) | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 716 Registered: 2-2011 |
Here's a picture of them, it is John Daversa's Progressive Big Band.  Thanks for the congrats! |
