| Author | Message | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hello all, in a few days I will receive my first ever Alembic in the mail.I bought it on Ebay a few days ago for 761.00 and its a bit beat up and needing some TLC. I dropped the serial number off at the history request board so I can learn more about this bass, the seller said it was a 1983 model. The way I see it, if I want this bass back in its original shape I'll need to replace/fix a few things. Namely the control knobs,the pickup selector, take the jack plate out, steam or sand out the dings or nicks, shine up the brass, and probably refinish the body. I attended a lutherie school after messing around with guitars and basses for years.And had practical experience working for myself and later at McPherson Guitars, so fixing up this bass will be a fun challenge. Im really happy to be an Alembic owner, I have lurked on these boards for a few years now and its nice to post and be a part of it! Heres a few pictures off of Ebay,Ill get new ones once it arrives:       (Message edited by billty on August 07, 2007) (Message edited by davehouck on August 09, 2007) | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 659 Registered: 9-2005 |
Congrats on the Spoiler, Bill! It saddens me that the previous owner(s) messed it up and didn't take good care of it. Hopefully you'll be able to fix it up and get it closer to original condition. It still looks pretty! Welcome to the club! | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 609 Registered: 5-2006 |
+1 I can reccomend a solid color refinish :-) These are great basses! My '83 Spoiler (no 2674) is my absolute favorite. Super player, super sound (must be the solid Koa) Hope you get the electronics sorted out ;-) Congrats! | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2007 |
Thanks King! I agree,I don't understand why people jack up their instruments when they are perfectly fine. The road to bringing this bass back to normal will be long, but I have the time.I wish I could afford to have the folks at Alembic do it,that way its a factory repair. | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2007 |
Well, I got the bass this afternoon before leavng for work and pluged it in and I thought it sounded pretty cool.It played very well, probably the best feeling on a neck I have ever experienced. So I decided that since its going to need some work I might as well get the hardware taken off and so forth. I knew the electronics were in need of restoration and I will post picks of that. I will probably need some help in figuring out what I need to aquire electronic parts.The body had dings and nicks and rash here there and everywhere,I expected that from the pictures.A refinish will have to happen.The part that horrified me was when I removed the square jack plate and discovered a hole my thumb could easily fit in!I can only assume that someone over zelously pluged in the bass and put too much pressure on that spot. So the two ideas Im thinking of is: 1.Fill the holes with koa dowel and live with the non matching grain. 2. I have some higly flamed koa from a previous guitar project,and I could make a small"pick guard" to fit over the area of the control knobs and input jack. I will post pictures and get opinions from the forum,and if anyone at Alembic has thier 2 cents to put in on how they might tackle this project I would love to hear from you! =) FC:Thanks! I have thought about the soild finish,but Im a sucker for the natural look.By the way, I too am a big Burton,& Newsted fan.The solid finish will be my last resort,if I cant restore this bass to original. I will post a ton of pictures when I get home from work. Cheers! Bill (Message edited by billty on August 08, 2007) | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 169 Registered: 1-2005 |
Congratulations on joining the Alembic family. I kind of like the koa plate for the electronics idea. Is your bass just missing the Alembic electronics? At least it looks like they left the original electronics... | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2005 |
Congratulations on joining the Alembic family. I kind of like the koa plate for the electronics idea. Is your bass just missing the Alembic electronics? At least it looks like they left the original pickups... | ||
| lowlife
Advanced Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 288 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bill, welcome to the club and congrats on your eBay score. If I was in your position, I would fill in the hole as you suggested and live with the non matching grain. I have no doubt that other opinions will be forth comming, perhaps some that you hadn't considered. Good luck Ellery (Lowlife) | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1508 Registered: 2-2006 |
Welcome Bill, I agree I like the natural finish too. Shouldn't be too tough to this bass back to par. I always wonder what people are thinking when they do things like this to an instrument. Olie | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 280 Registered: 3-2004 |
Maybe something along the lines of the Kit Guitar would be cool: http://www3.alembic.com/img/inst/13325_45viewL.jpg Here's another vote for natural finish. | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2007 |
Thanks for the welcomes,and your suggestions.I always think its good to consult before getting into the job.This is such a really cool community of musicians. I do want the bass natural,I was trying to figure out what kind of finish to apply.Does anyone know the brand of finish Alembic uses? I was thinking about nitro and then the idea of tung or danish oil finish popped in my head.The oil is pretty in the wood,but really doesn't protect the wood from dings.I thought there was a polyurethane that gave the look of oil but protected the wood better.Any thoughts? Any one else on my hole problem? When I get the pictures up of the electronics maybe you guys can tell me more about what I'm dealing with as far as if they are original. Cheers! (Message edited by billty on August 08, 2007) | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 |
As promised heres some pictures.  I believe these are original pickups   I disconnected the pickups and the "les Paul" style 3 way switch.SO I have the input,volume,and something else.Anyone care to elaborate,and what am I missing?   the horror..the horror...     one of these holes was not made at the factory. (Message edited by billty on August 08, 2007) (Message edited by davehouck on August 09, 2007) | ||
| kungfusheriff
Senior Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 615 Registered: 8-2003 |
Several of those holes were not made at the factory. God, that poor bass. The good news is, you're part of the way there -- my first Alembic, also a Spoiler, was "done over" and later resurrected so I'm confident you can do it. Those pickups look OK, and what's left of the electronics looks like an Activator system made for a Fender P. Since that's a one-pickup bass, it won't do. The control attached to the larger circuit board is a "Q" control, which is something like a wah pedal...there's an FAQ on the site somewhere you should read. You can get the bass back in playing shape by ordering a Spoiler electronics harness, which is volume and tone controls and a pickup selector plus a switch to turn the Q control on and off, or you can do what I did which is luck into a used Activator setup and hope for the best. Be advised that didn't really work, though. I like the idea of fabricating a koa cover for the boogered electronics...if you cut it thin enough it should do OK since the bass has a flat top, and it won't be the strangest mod I've ever seen done to an Alembic. Best of luck to you. | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2007 |
I think I will make a Koa cover for the bass,and fill in the big hole. I made a design up and I will be in my workshop this weekend so Ill show off the results of that later on Sunday. Ok so I need a Spoiler electronics harness,and that should be the last of my electronic problems. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 661 Registered: 9-2005 |
Hey, Bill, one other thing. (Disclaimer: I'm not sure about this, so get confirmation before taking my word for it) I sorta think -based on what I've seen/read here somewhere- that the hole/shaft size for the pickup selector is 1/8th of an inch, as opposed to the hole/shaft size for the volume and filter -which I think are 1/4th of an inch. If this is so, then it appears the whole for the pickup selector was enlarged, and you might want to take this into account with any plans, as the standard pickup selector might not fit any longer (assuming I'm correct about this in the first place). Another thought... if you're ordering replacement electronics, you might consider the "Elan" package -which is identical to the Spoiler package EXCEPT for/that the pickup selector is replaced by the more versatile pan/balance/blend control (which is the same size as the volumer and filter controls/shafts. Good luck with your project. Those pictures are enough to make a grown man cry. I salute your efforts in restoring this butchered masterpiece, and look forward to seeing the results. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5402 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hi Bill; welcome to the club! I agree with Mark; if you are going to order replacement electronics, I too would recommend the Elan package with the Pan control as a replacement for the Spoiler package with the selector switch. But of course if you prefer the selector, go with the Spoiler package. Also note, the pickup leads originally had modular connectors on the ends. A new electronics package will have posts that the modular connectors slide onto. Go here for pics and discussion. When you make your "cover", don't forget that it will need shielding paint. All of the controls are grounded to the shielding paint when they are attached to the body. | ||
| billty
New Username: billty Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi all, Good suggestions all around, I think the Elan package sounds nice, I will look onto pricing that. When I opened up the control cavity, the pickups were soldered,I didn't see any modular connectors except on the filter.I will have to talk with the folks at Alembic about what I will need to order to get this diamond in the rough playing again. Any thoughts on using a Nitro finish on this vs the Polyester? At this point the odds of this bass being "original condition" are history,so its going to look like a custom job now. (Message edited by billty on August 09, 2007) | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 616 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm a big fan of the Spoiler and you should be commended for saving this one. Perhaps they could incorporate your existing parts on your replacement package? If you can swing it, the Distilate/Rouge package is great. iprefer the selector switch because I move around a lot and the pan without the detent can get "readjusted" during the gig. Congrats and good luck. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 281 Registered: 3-2004 |
I can't really offer any insights with regard to the qualities of one finish versus another, but I might be able to speculate why most companies seem to want to avoid it. Specifically, nitrocellulose meets the EPA definition of a flammable solid. I deal with EPA regulations fairly regularly, and even a minor infraction of their frequently obscure and senseless regulations can result in massive fines. I am guessing that most companies just don't want to deal with the hassle, aside from the danger involved with the material itself. Here is a link to an Ed Roman discussion of the issue. I will add that Ed has a bit of a checkered reputation here on the forum, so caveat empor. http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/polyvsnitro.htm And another source from a GIS: http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/FinishOverview.htm (Message edited by hydrargyrum on August 10, 2007) | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 662 Registered: 9-2005 |
Bill, I think you should ask for advice on whether or not you should adjust the truss rods if you're going to have the strings (and the tension they provide) absent for a while. I'm no expert, but it may be the case that, if you're not going to have strings (and the resulting tension) on the bass for a while, you MIGHT (or might not) want to adjust the truss rods to prevent damage/issues. You might want to ask members about this/members seeing this might want to comment. While I tend to prefer the look of natural wood, fcspoiler//Flips suggestion of a color finish seems compelling -as it would eliminate concerns over cosmetic blemishes; properly done, the mutilation done to this bass by the previous owner(s) would not be noticable. Of course, only you can say what you would like/prefer. I also want to echo dannobassos thoughts... if/since you may require replacement electronics, it may behoove you to consider Distilate and/or Europa/Rogue electronics. Briefly (in case you don't know), Distalite electronics are the same as Spoiler (volume, filter, [2-position] Q switch, [4-position] pickup selector PLUS a pair of 3-position bass & treble boost/flat/cut toggle switches (which can boost or cut each frequency 6 dbs). Europa/Rogue electronics are the same... except the 4-position rotary pickup selector is replaced by a pan/balance/blend control. And again, the Elan package is like the Spoiler electronics -except that it DOESN'T have the bass & treble boost/flat/cut toggle switches... so it has a balance/blend/pan control INSTEAD of the 4-position rotary switch. For specific price info, you can use the "price quote generator" -on the "custom quote generator" and/or call Alembic for specifics. The Spoiler and Distalite models are no longer standard offerings, so the "price quote generator" will likely not offer info on these options. But have no fear, you can certainly get replacement electronics. In case you don't know, much of these issues are ususally taken care of by Mica -daughter of founders/owners Susan & Ron- who recently had a baby, and has been taking time off accordingly for several weeks. As a result, such requests/inquiries are likely to be a bit more delayed than would generally be the case... be advised. Again, best of luck with your salvage efforts. It doesn't look to bad, and with some effort and fortitude, you'll have an awesome bass. And this forum is a great resource, full of people who are generally inclined to share their experiences with you. Take care. | ||
| chuck
Intermediate Member Username: chuck Post Number: 177 Registered: 3-2005 |
Bill. As a builder of custom rifles and shotguns I have had a lot of experience in finishing and re-finishing gunstocks with a vareity of finishes. When working with a piece of wood that cost several thousand dollars the pucker factor can be high. The finish required on a hunting firearm made from beautiful and expensive woods must be very durable,waterproof and must allow the beauty of the wood to shine through. The same requirements apply to guitars. I don't meen to be a butinsky but if you would like I will be happy to help you with various products.there properties and methods of application. Chuck | ||
| aquaman
Junior Username: aquaman Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2006 |
Bill, Admirable. That's one word that fits your attempt to resurrect the Spoiler you bought. As a Spoiler owner, too, I'd like to put in my two cents: keep the Spoiler "real" by incorporating the Spoiler electronics package. Just my two cents, that's all. Look forward to the photos of the restoration project. Good luck | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hello All, Thanks for the help,your all awesome! To let you know what I have been up to today. I CAREFULLY sanded off all the poly finish on the Spoiler. Its in a humidity and temperature controlled environment,until tomorrow when I fix the hole in the top. I consulted a friend that repairs guitars and he said to make a fair amount of fine koa dust and using tape to cover the top side. Then flip the bass over and put the dust in the hole,and drip red label Hot Stuff super glue(water consistency)on it until its built up level. Once its cured I can sane the top even with the rest of the body. I am still putting a Flamed Koa plate over the area the control knobs will be, it is tasteful and to my eyes it matches well and covers some very deep gouges that I dont want to chase. I have lemon oil for the fret board ready and I am going to apply Tung oil (several coats) to the body and neck and buff it to a shine. I realize it wont protect like poly or nitro, but it will be beautiful, I have seen it used on some other instruments with this finish,and I liked it. All brass is being throughly cleaned and buffed to look new again. After this the electronics issue will be my next move. (Message edited by billty on August 12, 2007) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 832 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bill, Alembic actually uses a polymerized oil for their oil finishes. I've heard it was Watco at one time. I'm not sure what they use today. My Brown Bass is an oil finish and it has held up well so far. Keith | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 |
Alright, here are some pictures of the bass without the finish sanded up nice and smooth,ready for oil.I'll secure the Koa plate down with some brass screws,after oiling and working on buffing it to a shine.The brass will be looking very good in a short time thanks to my Dremel tool and buffing bits. The next step is ordering the electronics,and I'm going to go with the Spoiler set. I wasn't expecting to have to buy new electronics, they are pricey. Side note:Would anyone like to buy the old electronics from this bass(not including the pickups)? Any reasonable offer will be taken.KungFuSheriff said that they looked like an activator system,the les paul style 3 way switch and the jack plate will come with it. Well thats all for today,several coats of tung oil and brass buffing and Ill show you guys more. Cheers! Bill    (Message edited by davehouck on August 13, 2007) | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 664 Registered: 9-2005 |
Thanks for the update, and again, I salute your efforts in resurrecting this beautiful instrument! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2573 Registered: 7-2004 |
Bill: Welcome to the club and thanks for the pics. I'd love to see a more close up pic of the repairs. And please keep us posted as the restoration proceeds. Mark: I personally find your postings using colors , especially light colors like yellow and orange, VERY difficult to read due to lack of contrast between letters and background. As a result, I often just don't read them. I suspect I'm not the only one who encounters this difficulty. No offense intended, just some friendly feedback as you usually have something interesting to say and I would like to be able to read it. Bill, the guitar one. | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2007 |
While talking to the help desk,I wanted to see if the electronics I have can be utilized with new parts to form up a vintage/new set for this Spoiler.They haven't gotten back to me on it but for now the electronics are no longer for sale. The first coat of tung oil has been applied and it looks great.I also have all the brass looking VERY shiny and nice.This bass looks nothing like it did when I first got it I am happy to say. Pictures to come... | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2007 |
The help desk got back with me,the components I have cant be used for what I need.So if for some reason you want them,let me know. | ||
| artswork99
Junior Username: artswork99 Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2007 |
I saw that on eBay and salute you along with many others here. A major undertaking and you are getting it done! Best of everything Bill. Art ps: Bill, the guitar one... a solution to Mark's light text (I've seen it in several places)... I highlight it with the mouse which makes it much easier to read. | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2007 |
Well,I thought I would post an update, I have 3 coats of Tung oil on the bass so far.I "sand" the bass with 0000 steel wool after every application of rubbing in the oil.The plan is to get 10 coats on this bad boy by the time I'm done.Enough to give a nice natural shine,I'm really happy so far as the wood is turning out to be not as plain as I first thought.There is shimmer and figure in the grain when it plays against the light,and bits of flame here and there. The more I work on this bass the more I like it, its had a hard life and with hard work Ill have it looking and playing awesome again.And don't worry I'm not going to post every other time I oil it, I just wanted to show some progress since being stripped of the old finish! =)   (Message edited by billty on August 16, 2007) | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 283 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks for the update. I really enjoy watching the progress. | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2007 |
more to come (Message edited by billty on August 21, 2007) | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2007 |
Well Its all done and put back together,except for the electronics,it still needs to get the Spoiler harness equipped. On kind of a sad note I will be selling this bass on Ebay,the reason is personal,I'd rather not get into it.Bottom line its got to go,I put a lot of time and effort into this bass and I hate to see it go. Since its not in working condition and the electronics need to be sorted out I'm not sure how much I'll see for it. | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2007 |
      (Message edited by davehouck on August 25, 2007) | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2005 |
It's in better condition than when you bought it! I think you did a great job - it looks great - bummer about the electronics. I hope you at least get back what you paid for it, if not what you put into it as well. (Message edited by hieronymous on August 21, 2007) | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2007 |
(Message edited by billty on August 22, 2007) | ||
| billty
Junior Username: billty Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2007 |
Thanks! I wish I could keep it. Heres the Ebay link if anyone is interested... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180151752286&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008 |
