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murray
Member
Username: murray

Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 1:44 am:   Edit Post

This is only my opinion and one I have expressed before - how can ordinary old Fender basses attract such high prices? Here is a picture of one (1969) that is up for sale in a shop for £3750!! Who in their right mind would pay that money for a bass that has not been looked after and been knocked about - I don't buy the 'oh, it's been played a lot and has a unique sound etc' theories. It will have been an ordinary bass guitar that we all had (I bought one new in 1968 - subsequently stolen) and it was a good working bass that did me many happy gigs BUT it was ordinary - a bit like saying now that the Austin Mini was a fantastic motor. I had one of those as well - it was fine BUT ORDINARY- everyone had one. For £3750 you can buy a new Alembic - I rest my case. We should stop encouraging these stupid prices by not buying them thinking that one is buying a bit of history. Rubbish - they were ORDINARY basses and there were loads of them. That is my Monday morning rant over. Glynn
dela217
Senior Member
Username: dela217

Post Number: 1073
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 2:36 am:   Edit Post

I agree completely. To me the bass pictured is worth $300.00, tops.
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2881
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 3:32 am:   Edit Post

Glynn, your Mini analogy doesn't work as prices for 80's mini's has skyrocketed. A 1980 mini 1000 is currently going for £3500 in lancashire! Wish i'd kept my clubman estate - it would be worth thousands today.

Graeme
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 1679
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 4:52 am:   Edit Post

Speaking of Austin. I drove a 1970 Austin America (essentially an export version of the Austin 1300) during high school. Last I looked at prices they are $1500-$2500. Not much more than the new price in 1970.

Keith
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1532
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 5:17 am:   Edit Post

I agree murray, old basses & guitars are ridiculousy priced, okay the exceptions would be the first ten strats/p & j basses, first ten Les Pauls etc but all the 1000's made after that is just a 'rose tinted glasses' ideom.
It is a known fact that pick ups diminish in power as the magnets become weak, the pots deteriorate with use, the finish can crack or come off, the necks can warp.
I know one guy who says his old Strat sound better than the new ones then puts it through a BOSS processor! It could be a catalogue guitar as far as the audience is concerned.
I also don't believe in the mystique of artist owned instruments either, it's wood, metal and plastic and the only thing it absorbs is sweat off their hands.
dela217
Senior Member
Username: dela217

Post Number: 1074
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 5:44 am:   Edit Post

I guess I just don't get the whole vintage Fender thing. It seems to me you can pick up a MIM Fender for a fraction of these prices and they are nice instruments for what they are. Not my cup of tea though.

It's nice to see how this thread went from basses to Minis. I still have my 80's Mini 1000. Fun car. I live in the US so mini prices are unrealistic due to availibility here.
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 936
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 6:09 am:   Edit Post

Once upon a time there was a phenomenon where a really good instrument would be played so frequently that it was subjected to high levels of wear, and consequently showed it's pedigree in every piece of chipped paint and dings. Now people pay to have this simulated with belt sanders and shop tools. Frankly, I don't get it. Now every abused instrument is a "relic," and I can't help but wonder if you beat the crap out of it, whether the value improves. Fender made some nice guitars, but they also sold a boat load of average ones. You never know for sure until you try it.
hifiguy
Advanced Member
Username: hifiguy

Post Number: 270
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 8:02 am:   Edit Post

This has always puzzled me to the nth degree. A typical Fender is still a typical Fender even if it's 40 years old - no better and maybe worse for the wear and tear.

I've had a FOJ Jazz for more than ten years and it is hands down the best J of the six I have owned over the years.

Leo would doubtless find this frenzy both foolish and amusing. He was in the business of building reliable tools for working musicians to use, not collector's items.

I guess I get it a bit more about 1950s Gibsons, especially Les Pauls. There just weren't that many of them made back in the day, and they do sound special, but 1960s-70s Fenders are common as muck. Some are good, some are bad, many are indifferent.
white_cloud
Junior
Username: white_cloud

Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 9:49 am:   Edit Post

I guess any item that is for sale is worth however much a buyer is prepared to spend at that particular time.

I can only really comment on my own experiences - my 6 year old Korean built Lakland Darryl Jones is easily the finest jazz bass I have ever played (and I have played a few)...and that includes my now sought after 76 Fender Jazz. In fact the 76 is not a patch on the Lakland in any department.

Go figure!
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 2367
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post

I wonder how much an old and beaten up Alembic Series I from the 70's would go for? and..... have alembic ever made a new, beaten up bass or guitar for a customer?


Jazzyvee
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 1221
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post

In this thread, Dadabass2001 speaks of one...too bad there are no pics of the process....or maybe there is ?
tncaveman
Junior
Username: tncaveman

Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 7:24 pm:   Edit Post

A friend of mine has 3 late 50's strats that he has owned and played for the past 30 + years and they do play nice and have an awesome sound. And so do his Marshall stacks. A item is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

BTW, why do a lot of the Alembics go for way less than a new one? I paid $2000 for my Rogue. the guy I got it from payed $2800 in 98 for it.

Stephen
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1645
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post

Stephen, typically used ALEMBICs (and most 'boutique' basses) depreciate in big percents (thank goodness for me . . .) as the costs involved are way above what a Fender or Gibson runs as costs. There's often no two alike, aside from basic shapes/templates and electronic packages. The wood costs are much higher. There's fewer employees who are much higher-skilled who do a lot of jobs.

It's easier to see these companies more in line with a stand-alone Custom Shop. And like most very-specialized products, you're dealing with a small clientele who are nerds/techies for this particular thing. And like anything else, the further you move away from the mass market, the buy-in gets steeper just as does the depreciation.

You see this is all markets. You sell one Bosendorfer for every 500 Baldwins. You move lots of point and shoots for a handful of Leicas.
Way more Sentras than GTR's. And in most cases, they depreciate: Look at a one year old Lexus 460, low miles, and you'l wonder how did it lose 30 grand that fast ?!?!

And you throw a used Series One on the wall at Guitar Center, then try and explain to Beavis or Butthead about the filters, the power supply, the five-pin cable . . . after the room quits spinning, they want a Schecter or an Ibanez or a Fender. So it's a small market, and a store will pitch it fast and cheap to move it.

As you so correctly pointed out, anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Vintage guitars are their own scene, but as I always wonder myself every time I wander through George Gruhn's, why anyone would pay that kind of money for these things is beyond me.

I'm long past that wonderment stage: They're tools. I do like them to look nice and play well. Fender is easily making the best axes they've ever made, and the Custom Shop pieces can be exceptionally fine, if you're into Fenders. There's lots of Fender-ish choices as well. In every possible permutation imaginable. Would not pay that kind of cash for an old bass, but that's just me.

The great thing, they screw together. Just like being back in shop class! I'm gonna build me a Warmoth one of these days just like I'd want. Probably depreciate fast . . . .

J o e y
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 848
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 2:37 am:   Edit Post

I had a teacher years ago that got me into the vintage fender thing. He was a pro who had literally a room full of vintage jazz and P basses.

I eventually bought a beat up 72 sunburst jazz bass and a 64 lake placid blue jazz bass from him. The 72 was my primary bass for a long time, it played great, sounded ok.

The 64 I only played once in awhile, it played great and sounds fantastic. The 64 plays and sounds like no other bass. I've tried lots of the newer jazz basses being made these days and nothing comes close.

I do think there is something about some of these old instruments. It is not craftsmanship as they were (and are) basically mass produced pieces of wood screwed together. Some people say that they older instruments have unique tonal qualities because of the woods that were used, old growth woods vs "new" growth woods. Who knows.

I recently sold the 72, but still have the 64. I'll be holding onto that bass as long as possible.

As far as pricing goes, something is really only worth as much as someone will pay for it. Personally, Id never drop that much coin on a jazz or P bass ...
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 3:05 am:   Edit Post

I've got a 1975 Precision and to be honest it is just wonderful!
I set it up myself, and it plays and sounds like a dream-----Our own "White-Cloud" has played it and heard it in a live situation.
What I'm trying to say is, that next to my 76 Series 1, it is my preferred bass, simply because of that wonderful Precision "bark". On full treble, it sounds identical to the "Stranglers" bass. I would have gladly paid three times the amout I paid for it. So--It all boils down to the buyer!-What's it worh to them??

George

(Message edited by georgie_boy on March 29, 2011)
slawie
Advanced Member
Username: slawie

Post Number: 332
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 3:24 am:   Edit Post

I have a 77 Jazz bass that plays great because of the way I do the setup. Just the way I like it.
By installing Alembic pickups I have changed the way it sounds . Just the way I like it.
I was offered $3000.00 for it on the condition I had all the original hardware. Which I do, however
I wont sell it because it is.... Just the way I like it.

slawie
lidon2001
Senior Member
Username: lidon2001

Post Number: 456
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 5:52 am:   Edit Post

Fender Factory

Maybe they are treasured because, just like the instruments we come here to discuss, they were hand made back in the day. Many people prefer the CNC'd fast growth wood of today. I certainly do not, and think MIM's, Skylines, and others like those feel cheap and almost like fake wood.

As George says, whatever floats your boat...
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4803
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 6:25 am:   Edit Post

When it comes to Fender, the line of demarcation, IMHO, is pre vs. post CBS. I've never played a post CBS (after 1965) that felt or played nearly as well as my '61 Strat that I picked up in around 1975 for $125 (those were the days!) CBS changed production techniques (one of their first changes was to eliminate dipping the pickups in wax - saved a few minutes of workers' time, but, according to everything I've read, had a serious detrimental effect on the sound of the pickups. I believe they figured this one out pretty quickly and at least started the wax dipping process again). But is my Strat worth the going rate today? Of course not, it's crazy - but if I can pay for a year or two of my kid's college with the Strat I ain't complaining!

Bill, tgo
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 938
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 6:30 am:   Edit Post

The CBS era definitely has its flaws. I've been considering for some time the possibility of "Black facing" my pre-master volume Pro-Reverb. It doesn't sound too difficult, but I like the sound of it pretty well as it is. It's a 1972 (I think), but it has incredible clean headroom, and the tone is pure Fender. I just wish I could get it to break up a little bit before it reaches a deafening volume.
tubeperson
Intermediate Member
Username: tubeperson

Post Number: 153
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 6:55 am:   Edit Post

A word of acution to those who love the current Fender Custom shop. I have purchased two basses out of that shop, a NOS 1959 Precision, and the 60th Anniversary Jazz bass. The neck of the Precision warped within the first year of ownership and had to be replaced, with a piece of lumber that did not have the figuring of the original neck.

For the Jazz Bass, there is a lot of discoloring on the neck, under the finish. Obviously someone was careless and did not clean their hands before applying the clear nitro neck finish.

What ever happened to quality control? That is why they prefer to make relics, so that the flaws are hidden. Sam Ash in Manhattan orders relics for that very reason!

Based on my experience, the Fender Custom Shop is producing inferior in quality instruments. Just my 2 cents.
benson_murrensun
Senior Member
Username: benson_murrensun

Post Number: 428
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 7:57 am:   Edit Post

Here's an example:
http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/2292573786.html
SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! I bet it plays great and sounds wonderful... but... SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS! Yikes.

(Message edited by Benson_Murrensun on March 29, 2011)
benson_murrensun
Senior Member
Username: benson_murrensun

Post Number: 429
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 8:21 am:   Edit Post

BTW, the same thing is happening (to a lesser extent) with older Japanese motorcycles. Late '60's and '70's bikes in good shape are being advertised for three or four times their original prices when new. Guess the old "dollar-per-cc" rule is long gone! Yeah, the Honda CB-350 was a very good bike (for it's time), but would you pay upwards of $3000 for a 40-year old example now?
jack
Advanced Member
Username: jack

Post Number: 289
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 9:46 am:   Edit Post

I wonder what the demographic is for purchasers of these instruments- whether this bubble is driven by a large number of folks reaching a certain age (ahem), have put the kids through college and paid off the mortgage, and have some disposable income to pursue the relics of their youth (no offense to anyone intended). Seeing the prices for not just basses, but parts, cases, etc., growing by such a significant amount over the last ten years, I wonder how sustainable that all is, and whether the market for these types of things will dry up.

On the other hand, it's probably safe to say there are a lot more bass players now as a percentage of the population than ever, and the market is globally accessible, and perhaps there will always be a demand for vintage fenders.

I guess what I'm asking is whether the bass players who grew up in the 80s and 90s will be more interested in vintage fenders or 80s Arias and BC Richs? Should I dig the ol Ibeenhad EX404 out of the closet?

I'm thankful I play 5 stringers exclusively- much less temptation.
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1647
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post

Yes Jack, playing fives only has saved my bacon more than once !

But IF I were gonna collect, you hit my nail on the head: I'd have an Aria SB (the 2 p/u version in that orange-y stain), the Ibanez Musician (the generation with the fat neck pickup and the skinny bridge, both soapbars), a BB2000 Yamaha (baseball bat neck!), a Daion XX, and a TUNE Bass Maniac (hopefully NOT in some 80's video color). If I had to find a Fender, I'd dig VERY deep and find one of the 'red neck' Tokai's, where they stained the whole neck in see thru red instead of clear, preferably one of the three-Jazz-pickup versions just to be even more unnerving to the uninitiated !

But . . . they're all four-strings, so I'm off the hook !

J o e y
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1648
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post

Oh yeah, forgot: A first generation ESP Horizon /PJ EMG's. Gotta love a carved top with that huge V-shaped tummy cutout and the Gumby headstock.

J o e y
george_wright
Intermediate Member
Username: george_wright

Post Number: 152
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post

I play saxophone more frequently than strings (at least until I retire, which is coming right up!). That means I see some pretty outrageous prices for saxes on woodwind boards.

The ridiculous prices are for Selmer Mk VI tenor saxes within a certain serial number range. The real reason for the prices is what several have said here: it's what the traffic will bear.

But.... One seller claimed that his particular instrument really WAS worth that much. That's because it was made from brass recycled from spent artillery shells scavenged from the battlefields of France. Turns out artillery-fired brass has some magical tonal properties. Who knew?

So I'm thinking maybe if we could have guitars and basses made from wood salvaged from the flight decks of old aircraft carriers we could really be on to something! Well.... Maybe not.
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 939
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 1:57 pm:   Edit Post

Here's a Benedetto made from wood that was attacked by Ship Worms, speaking of recovered wood.

Benedetto
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 913
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 1:59 pm:   Edit Post

That Fender video is so cool! I learned my first chords on a '66 Tele, and since have played a goodly number of '59-'66 Fenders. I have yet to find a bad one (my cutoff is '67, Bill - there was some residual Leoness for about a year) but current prices, though lower than a few years ago, are obscene. The current ones are OK, but not worth what they want. More than $400 for a '70s Fender? They have yet to make the drug that would get me high enough!

Peter (who also loves any '50s Gibson with ES in it's name - but not enough to pay for one)
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4804
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 2:54 pm:   Edit Post

Recovered wood?

Jerry Garcia's "Bolt" guitar was made by Stephen Cripe out of wood that came from an old opium den bed. (Seems appropriate).

And a few years ago, Taylor made an acoustic guitar out of an old fork lift pallet!

Bill, tgo
crobbins
Senior Member
Username: crobbins

Post Number: 827
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Edit Post

If I had any of the guitars or basses that I owned back in the 60s and early 70s(before they were"vintage") I would certainly take advantage of this phenomenon.. :-)
precarius
Advanced Member
Username: precarius

Post Number: 340
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit Post

In 1977 I played a 1964 Fender Precision bass for a while. It sounded pretty good, pretty comfortable,but the maple neck was perfect.I always thought that the 70's Fenders sucked and now they are selling from $1500 to $2000. A few weeks ago I bought a 1983 G&L SB-1 and the neck is perfect. Just like the 64 P-Bass.If you ever get a chance to buy an early G&L. Do it.
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 914
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 5:58 pm:   Edit Post

Washburn made a series of guitars from the oak pews they took out when the remodeled the Ryman (new they came with a few nails from said pews) & someone - Taylor, I think - got some wood from the last Liberty Tree when it went down & made guitars.

Peter
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 940
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 6:45 pm:   Edit Post

I've always thought that if I bought another strat style guitar it would be a G&L. It's not like Leo stopped innovating just because he left fender.
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 1222
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 7:08 pm:   Edit Post

I love my G&L's (leo era) it's amazing that you can still find beaters for under $500.
Here's a G&L that uses reclaimed materials:

and a link to the thread for more info:
link
peoplechipper
Advanced Member
Username: peoplechipper

Post Number: 242
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post

I find myself drawn to 30+ year old instruments; not that age is what I look for first, but I always find myself gravitating towards the more 'experienced' ones...I've never been a real Fender guy but when I worked at a vintage shop I got to play some real old ones and they do feel different even from the best relics; you can't fake the aging of a maple neck, they have to absorb sweat!
Another example is my '60 Melody Maker...it's a transition one(had the lap steel pickups, just before they went to the skinny ones...)
Anyway, it was Gibson's student guitar but it's made of wood that we can't get now without paying huge...I've been offered three times what it sells for and turned it down; A. I didn't want to rip off a friend(and my drummer) B. it's one of those old guitars with 1000 songs in it...old guitars make you play new things and any rutbuster is good...

I do think that the prices now paid for '70's Fenders is stupid; those guitars and basses weren't that good 30+ years ago and aren't that much better now, unless lots of that plastic finish has fallen off and the wood dried out!

I could keep going, but I won't...Tony
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 942
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 5:46 am:   Edit Post

That's super cool Elwood. Talk about having absorbed some frequencies over the years.
precarius
Advanced Member
Username: precarius

Post Number: 341
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 7:38 am:   Edit Post

I have often heard about bassists wanting to acquire the "Leo trio". A pre-cbs fender,an early musicman, and an early G&L. For some reason I have always owned a P-Bass, just didn't play it very often. In the 70's I played a Rickenbacker, Gibson RD Artist, and a Gibson G-3. If anyone hears of a G-3 for sale, let me know.
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 1226
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 9:38 am:   Edit Post

There's a G-3 on ebay right now, honestly I don't see any quality there, and the seller is Waaayyy off on his pricing...probably because it says Gibson on the headstock.


(...reminds me of the Sonex I bought to revisit my teenage years ...that didn't last long :-) )
precarius
Advanced Member
Username: precarius

Post Number: 342
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 9:58 am:   Edit Post

I wouldn't pay that much for 10 G-3's. I tend to be gravitating to the basses I had in my teenage years also. There used to be a place called Guitar Trader (used and vintage guitars) in Red Bank, NJ and in 1978 I bought 5 G-3's $100 each. And that included shipping and HSC.
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post

Gotcha...if I see a G-3 (or a time machine )for a few hundred ...I'll let ya know.
crobbins
Senior Member
Username: crobbins

Post Number: 828
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 2:45 pm:   Edit Post

DW drums was also making snare drums from maple recovered from a 100 year old ship wreck from the great lakes...
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 943
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 6:05 pm:   Edit Post

As much as I hate the shape of their headstocks, Langcaster and their 35,000 year old swamp Kauri deserve some mention if recovered wood and, "old" guitars are the topic at hand.
Kauri
tbrannon
Senior Member
Username: tbrannon

Post Number: 1310
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 6:23 pm:   Edit Post

I just can't get past the Langcaster headstock. When I was living in NZ I visited th shop and thought long and hard about having a custom P built by them, but I couldn't get past the headstock and he wasn't too willing to depart from their headstock design. I love the swamp kauri though. We have several swamp kauri sculptures and bowls around our house. They're gorgeous.
pauldo
Senior Member
Username: pauldo

Post Number: 593
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post

For what its worth:
I played a bass once in Madison that was made from wood that was recovered from a ship that had sunk in Lake Superior 100 years ago (or something).
Absolutely beautiful wood - absolutely crappy sounding instrument . . .
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 5:11 am:   Edit Post

Didn't the Craviotto Drum Co make some shells from timber from one of the ships sunk in the great lakes??...and they are expensive of course and limited edition
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 915
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 6:27 am:   Edit Post

A luthier named Laurie Willams also uses swamp kauri (which he calls "ancient kauri"); he does acoustics. If they sound half as pretty as they look, they must be amazing.

Peter Gerlach
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4806
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 6:33 am:   Edit Post

I just checked out Langcaster. I see what you guys mean about the headstock. Sort of looks like a Fender with a goiter! Yuuucchhhhh!

Bill, tgo
tbrannon
Senior Member
Username: tbrannon

Post Number: 1311
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post

Bill,

I noticed yesterday that he is now offering a very 'fender-esque' headstock with a small Koru inlaid in Paua shell. Much better choice-



I wish he has been willing to do something like that back in 2005- I had a very simple P bass in mind, but at that point Joh wasn't very interested in moving away from that headstock he uses. His basses played nice and sounded great.
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 2377
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post

What about this then for silly money?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Vintage-Stratocaster-PRE-CBS-1961-Strat-Guitar-/250785984723?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3a640270d3

Jazzyvee
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 919
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post

A '61 Strat in what looks to be superb condition? A wonderful guitar; I'd love to have it, and would no doubt happily pay 10 times its original price. 100 times its original price? That's not a Buy It Now I'll be hitting, thank you very much. But I have seen them offered for almost 5 times this price. As I commented above, obscene.

Peter
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4808
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post

The sunburst ones are actually the least valuable. $25K for one in 98% condition is the current Blue Book value. The Vintage Guide places it at $20-25K. The Vintage Guide further values "common colors" at $35-45K, and "rare colors" at $45-70K for a 1961!

And my Olympic white isn't even white anymore - it's yellow, but oh such a valuable yellow. $125 in 1975 - best investment I ever made and I didn't even know it was an investment! I'm certainly glad I never got around to stripping it and staining it dark like an Alembic, as I meant to do back then.

Of course, these are "listed" and "asking" prices. I personally don't know anyone who's actually paid such a price.

Bill, tgo
gtrguy
Advanced Member
Username: gtrguy

Post Number: 362
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post

I bought a Fender Tele new in 1971 and it was not that great a guitar. My cousin has a 57 Tele and it is amazing. It is amazing because of its flaws and its age. The pickups sound beautiful but a little noisy. I am sure that is part of what gives them the sound they have. The body is light and nimble. Would I pay $3,200 for a 71 Tele; no way.

I personally don't much like new guitars, as I feel a good guitar gets better with age and a poor one does not. I also am a firm believer n the Mojo Factor. I think an instrument takes on a personality over the years, just as we do.

The money we pay for them is just a medium of exchange. Its value fluctuates too. Is gas really worth $3.75 a gallon? Well, if we are buying it for that much, then it is. Is a 60's fender P bass worth more than a 70's series one? Not to me, but others think it is.

A little while ago a 60's Mustang convertible was worth way more than a 60's Porsche 911 targa. Which do you think is a better performer? However, a Mustang is an American icon. So is a P bass. It all comes down to public perceived value, utilitarian value, performance and upkeep value, and collector value.

The really good news is that Alembics are very low priced for what they are. Is a new P bass going for $14,800 bucks? No, but a series one is.

If we had to start paying $7,000 for a used series one we would not like it so much, even though they are probably worth it in terms of quality, playability, and sound. I suspect someday we might be paying that much. I remember when old Strats and Les Pauls started going for serious money. You either bought one or you thought it was crazy to pay that much. My best friend had a 69 Strat he bought new and then sold in the early 80ís in Seattle. He had people bidding against each other in his living room for it and sold it for $2,500. I never liked the guitar and thought it sounded like crap. It was just a bad sounding Strat for some reason. However, I now wish I had bought it!

Anyway, enough of my rambling!
skyboltone
Member
Username: skyboltone

Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post

I agree . Rubbish is a good word, and the proliferation of "relics" is absurd.

I had a Morris Minor 1960 model. I liked it but it needed a bit more motor. It was a much more "quaint" looking, but usable car than the mini. I would pay some silly money to get my 1967 MGB back. Again, not much motor but it was the last of the metal dash panels and was great fun. Bought new as a High School junior.

Dan
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4816
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post

IIRC, in '68 the MGB went from a 3 to a 5 main bearing engine. I always thought the '68-'72 MGs were the best, before the U.S. Smog and bumper restrictions hit in '73.

Bill, tgo
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 953
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 1:20 pm:   Edit Post

Speaking of relics, old guitars, etc. has anyone seen the Fender Snakehead Tele recreation? For $6000 you too can have a relic'd replica of a prototype guitar. I actually kind of like the aesthetics, but that price tag seems insane to me.
Snakehead
skyboltone
Member
Username: skyboltone

Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2011 - 3:29 pm:   Edit Post

IIRC, in '68 the MGB went from a 3 to a 5 main bearing engine. I always thought the '68-'72 MGs were the best, before the U.S. Smog and bumper restrictions hit in '73.

Actually Bill, I can attest to the fact that the engine changed to 5 mains in '67. That is what makes it such a unique MG. It still had all leather seats, the top was taken apart and put in the trunk in a sack, the dash was durable all metal with black wrinkle finish. The heater controls were simple knobs controlling valves and switches. The only thing on the steering column was a turn signal stalk. By '68 they came out with the pasteboard and naugahyde dash, the disastrous GT model, a more complicated and less reliable electrical control system and (somewhere after '67) paint that came off quickly etc. The '67 also had a synchromesh on first gear. The '65 did not, I'm not sure of the '66 in the transmission department.
The '67 and before had weird throwout bearings with stationary metal to metal contact. They needed to be changed after about 20,000 miles. This required pulling the engine and transmission as a unit. (radiator, oil cooler, crossmember, clutch hydraulics etc) I got it down to about 8 hours doing it alone. With help it usually took longer.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4818
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post

Ever seen an MGC? A BGT with a 6 cylinder engine. I always thought those looked interesting.

Bill, tgo
pace
Senior Member
Username: pace

Post Number: 697
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post

My father had a '69 MGC. "The one that got away"

He tracked it down a couple of years ago, and the current owner isn't quite ready to part with it.
skyboltone
Member
Username: skyboltone

Post Number: 100
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post

I saw a C model a couple of times. Never drove one. Too bad they weren't made in larger numbers. I got it in mind a year or so ago to look for a clean mid '60s sprite or midget to goof around with. Now I have a Harley Road King instead.
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 923
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post

Ah, yes, classic British roadsters! Loved my Spitfire; best-handling car I've ever driven - when it drove. Sometimes I think I'd like to have it back. Then I remember how many times I stood by the side of the road at 3:00 AM asking "What's the *&%# is wrong with this &%$@$%^* thing now!?!?!?"

Peter
pace
Senior Member
Username: pace

Post Number: 698
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 1:34 pm:   Edit Post

I had a 91 miata for a while, and it was all the fun with none of the problems.
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 924
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2011 - 1:53 pm:   Edit Post

My wife had a '99 Miata; it was, indeed, great fun & bulletproof - except it was too small inside. I'm 5'11". The Spit I could drive with my legs straight out, but in the Miata my knees were against the wheel & the top of the windshield frame was right at eye-level. Also, the Triumph went through anything; the Mazda was lighter & a lot more powerful - one snowflake 50' away & you were doing 360s down the road. When she was first looking at it I, based on the Spit, told her snow wouldn't be a problem - so guess who ended up driving it in the winter? The other big difference? Fewer tickets in the Spit. It felt fast at 55mph, the Miata was smooth at 120. Allegedly.

Peter
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4820
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 8:04 am:   Edit Post

I had a '61 Bugeye Sprite: the "gutless wonder". I wish I still had it. I also had a 2001 Miata Special Edition in BRG with tan leather and Nardi wooden steering wheel, shift knob, handbrake. Basically a British sports car that worked all the time! I could fit in it and it was a blast to drive, but once in it, I had little area to move around in. My Bugeye had more legroom. I sold it last summer and picked up a '93 Porsche 968 Cabriolet. Outstanding car and about 15-20% bigger than the Mazda.

Bill, tgo
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2892
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 4:35 am:   Edit Post

Still got my 'spridget' bill. Took it off the road to restore it in 1997 and I'm starting to see some progress now. Finished all the welding last october and I'm just waiting for some warm weather so I can get it painted...

midget

Hopefully have it on the road for my 50th this July.

Graeme
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1544
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 5:26 am:   Edit Post

chassis & bodywork looking nice in basecoat jacko, still a lot of work though to get ready for your 50th.
Isn't there anywhere near you where you can hire a workshop to do the final spray then you can finish the job without coating the neighbours cars or the rest of your garage with overspray
jbabies
New
Username: jbabies

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 8:32 am:   Edit Post

In high school economics they teach a very important principle of commerce. That price is not a function of worth, it's a function of demand and supply. Old Fenders are worth a fortune because they have become a speculatable collectable. A lot of old guitars are now being snapped up by people who will never play them. They will sit in a closet or under a bed until the price of vintage guitars sky rockets again to be sold to the next generation of investors. The main reason Alembics do not appreciate like a vintage Fender is that only the intelligencia of the music industry even know they exist. I have a suspicion that this will not always be the case. The markets in china and india are opening up and there is lots of money being spent on cars, boats enormous houses and items of conspicuous wealth. It's just a matter of time before these buyers come online seeking the most elite products from the west.
skyboltone
Intermediate Member
Username: skyboltone

Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2011 - 5:47 pm:   Edit Post

Looking good Jacko: I hold all who do full restoration in high esteem. Too many wonderful bits from the past are melted down and now contain dog food.

Here's an odd bit of trivia. Fiat (with Alfa) and Ferrari both used Soviet Steel for a number of years from the late '60s through the '70s and most of those cars succumbed to rust in short order. Not in the UK or the US though. The Fiat 124 would eat my MGB for lunch though. They were no where near as much fun to drive though. At least for me, the MG would track straight and true at 100mph but the Fiat was hard to keep on the road at speed.

I assume you've mostly replaced the floor pan eh Graeme? Hard points all solid?
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2893
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 1:12 am:   Edit Post

Daniel. Once I'd got through stripping the filler and old paint the car was like swiss cheese. i ended up replacing alot of panels (luckily all available from specialists). It's had (in no particular order) a new floor, new inner and outer sills, new rear wings, a new rear panel, inner front wings, outer footwell panels, footwell kick panels, new doors, replacement bonnet (hood) and bootlid (trunklid?) and new inner rear bulkhead, not to mention lots of patches I had to fabricate myself. In the long run it would probably have been cheaper buying a new car but it wouldn't have been as much fun. I have a week holiday coming up so I'm hoping to get as much of the body prep done as I can. Then I can get it back on it's side and stonechip the underside before I start on the painting.

Graeme.
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1659
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 3:16 pm:   Edit Post

Just think: You could do a really proper restoration, use all NOS Lucas electric parts . . . and you could walk home. THAT would really be period correct !

My dad bought a 'fixer-upper' Mark II Jaguar saloon (black, oxblood hides, wood dash and trim, real knock-offs with the rawhide hammer), brought it back to life beautifully, but could NEVER get a replacement electric fuel pump that would leave him stranded instead of my mother ! Did get her a new Buick for her trouble though . . .

J o e y
crobbins
Senior Member
Username: crobbins

Post Number: 844
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 6:20 pm:   Edit Post

Mike, here is a G-3 at Elderly..

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/55U-4623.htm
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4823
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 - 9:07 pm:   Edit Post

Q: Why do they drink warm beer in England?

A: Lucas refrigerators!

hehehehe

Bill, tgo
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2896
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 1:20 am:   Edit Post

One of life's great misconceptions Bill. I've been drinking beer in England for around 34 years (started my underage drinking at 16) and never yet had a warm pint.
As for Lucas? well there are other options these days ;-)

Graeme
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1550
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 2:45 am:   Edit Post

Okay, the description of 'beer' in the UK is different in the states.
Your beer is lager in the UK(light yellow coloured liquid), this should be served cold.
Beer in the UK is referred to as ale and this should be at room temperature..now that I have cleared that up I will be drinking ale tonight.
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2897
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 2:49 am:   Edit Post

"Beer in the UK is referred to as ale and this should be at room temperature"

...or marginally under.
Unlike Guiness extra cold that has been chilled so much it's lost any semblance of flavour.

I'll be rehearsing tonight so will be drinking water ;-(

graeme
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 930
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 5:43 am:   Edit Post

Yes, Terry, the major national-brand beers that all but destroyed the brewmaster's art in the US call themselves lagers, and must be ice-cold to get them past your lips. In the last 25 years or so, however, there has been a massive (and quite welcome) resurgance of not only quality lagers, but also of real ales; I actually prefer (and only brew) the latter. And, though I drink them colder than you do, they do not become undrinkable as they warm, like MBC (that's a beer-snob term for Miller/Budweiser/Coors - which are indistinguishable in their vileness.)
I was about to ask if the sportcars could count as substitute for bikes, when I remembered Daniel mentioned his Road King - the thread is complete.

Peter

(Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on April 13, 2011)
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 959
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 6:30 am:   Edit Post

Why do all good threads here come back to beer? :-) On the topic of cold beer, let's not forget the virtues of a high gravity, highly hopped India Pale Ale. An extremely spicy hot dish of thai food, and a nice cold flowery pale ale make me a happy person, and anyone who cares to tell me it's wrong can stick both in their pipe and smoke it.
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1551
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 7:13 am:   Edit Post

Hydragyrum..Cobra is a great pale ale, a great compliment to Eastern food.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4824
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 7:21 am:   Edit Post

Personally, I prefer to put something other than ale and Thai food in my pipe! lol

Bill, tgo
skyboltone
Intermediate Member
Username: skyboltone

Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2010
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 10:16 am:   Edit Post

Can we talk about Whisky now?
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 960
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post

Thanks for the advice Terry, I'll definitely check it out. My long standing favorite is Bell's "Two-Hearted Ale," with the trout on the box. From their website:

"Two Hearted Ale is defined by its intense hop aroma and malt balance. Hopped exclusively with the Centennial hop varietal from the Pacific Northwest, massive additions in the kettle and again in the fermenter lend their characteristic grapefruit and pine resin aromas. A significant malt body balances this hop presence; together with the signature fruity aromas of Bell's house yeast, this leads to a remarkably drinkable American-style India Pale Ale."

Is anyone else getting thirsty? :-) I'd have to agree with Bill as well. There are better things to be put to that use (although I've been clearing my head for quite a while now, and I'm feeling surprisingly good for the change).
benson_murrensun
Senior Member
Username: benson_murrensun

Post Number: 437
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post

That description of Two Hearted Ale is DEFINITELY making me thirsty!
musashi
Intermediate Member
Username: musashi

Post Number: 153
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post

Bill, tgo

"Q: Why do they drink warm beer in England?

A: Lucas refrigerators!"

The Prince of Darkness... Too funny.

(I've had a couple of Jaguars over the years...)
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 1682
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 1:03 pm:   Edit Post

I haven't tried Two Hearted IPA but am rather fond of the IPA brewed at the Front Street Brewery in Wilmington, NC. Whenever I get down that way I always pick up a couple of growlers (1/2 gallon) to take home. Of the various styles I'm like Kevin with a preference for IPA's and I won't pass on the spicy Thai food either.

Keith
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 961
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 2:03 pm:   Edit Post

If you ever make it to Columbia Missouri, stop by both the Flat Branch and the Broadway Brewery. They both make a fine beer (although the Flat Branch isn't as good as when I was a college student), and they sell growlers as well.
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 1754
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 2:16 pm:   Edit Post

Columbia is not far from Glasgow , I have friends and family there . I had lots of fun the last time I went for a visit.
precarius
Advanced Member
Username: precarius

Post Number: 346
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 3:46 pm:   Edit Post

Mike, here is a G-3 at Elderly..

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/55U-4623.htm

$1000? That's getting close to Spoiler or Persuader money!
Mike
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 1683
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 3:48 pm:   Edit Post

I was born not too far from Columbia in Warrensburg and lived in Marshall for several years when I was younger. I still have family in that area so it would actually be a place to stop on the way there or back.

Keith
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 962
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 7:22 pm:   Edit Post

Wolf and Keith,

If you ever get down this way drop me a line. I would be more than happy to point out some of the best local attractions. I graduated from Mizzou, went to work on campus shortly thereafter(where I'm still employed) met the woman that would become my gracious and tolerant wife in my buddy's dorm room, and we were married on campus. Needless to say, I have some strong attachments to the area.

(Message edited by hydrargyrum on April 13, 2011)
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 1755
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 8:02 pm:   Edit Post

Thanks Kevin, I will.

My Wife's Mother was born in Glasgow who's brother ( my Wife's uncle )now has the old family farm there. I felt really good hanging out there and all the people were so real and friendly. They had a big jam and party and one of the locals handed me his old Fender P Bass( look like early 70's maybe ) when he found out that I was a fellow Bass player, he told me sit in as long as you like ! Good memories from about 2007,_____not that long ago.

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