| Author | Message | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10412 Registered: 5-2002 |
A ran across mention of the Moonlight Sonata a little while ago, which brought the memory of one of my favorite scenes from one of my favorite movies. It's one of my favorite movies because of the soundtrack. And in this short scene, the emotional content of the song is supported by the emotional content of the scene, and the scene also underscores one of the most profound ironies of his life. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10413 Registered: 5-2002 |
And as an added bonus, another favorite scene; Saleri: these .. are originals? | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2124 Registered: 5-2009 |
Ludwig Van Beethoven , in his anguish and loss of hearing with the boundless passion that he was born with as his musical gift and thus the reactionary moods when interrupted in the flow of creation. I love the 2nd movement of the 7th symphony ,his sadness is obvious throughout the movement to my perceptions .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs5pH4GKYkI | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2125 Registered: 5-2009 |
Salieri, who worked so hard to create music that would resonate with the audience and stay with the listener ,while Mozart did this as a part of his natural inclinations . It seems that Antonio never achieved to surpass Wolfgang in his compositions to write memorable melodies like Wolfgang did even though Salieri was an important teacher and innovator of his time. (Message edited by sonicus on November 04, 2011) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10415 Registered: 5-2002 |
The 7th symphony is wonderful, and the second movement is very moving and beautiful. Listening to it now, thank you for the link. I love that Salieri scene; the idea that someone can be so moved just from reading a score. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2126 Registered: 5-2009 |
When someone shows that kind of reaction to the examination of a score I think that it is a indication of the extreme level of musical literacy that they have as second nature. I have a friend who is a classical pianist /Ph.D. music professor who reacts that way to a score that interests him . His level of musical literacy is incredible . He has a passion for performing the works of the likes of Milton Babbitt , Elliot Carter and such luminaries of 20th century classical works . Many of the these scores seem really intense and wildly difficult with constantly changing time signatures , just wild and just really in general are challenging for the best of symphony musicians and yet he is just as happy with the "Art of Fugue" ; Johann Sebastian Bach. All this demanding reading ability and musical literacy and yet he has a really difficult time at some Jazz improvisation . I guess I won't even bother to ask him to jam on "Dark Star "with me _ LOL ___ (Message edited by sonicus on November 04, 2011) | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1098 Registered: 10-2006 |
Interesting point, Wolf. I had a girlfriend long ago who spent a year at the Mozartium in Salzburg on the way to getting herself a degree in harpsichord performance; I think I'm safe in saying she was a pretty serious classical player. She came out one night to see the 60s pop/soul/rock cover band I was mixing for, and said "Man, Conrad's great - I could never play like that." Both great players, but different skill sets. Peter | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4974 Registered: 7-2004 |
The 2nd movement to the 7th symphony has been among my favorites ever since I first saw Zardoz, (in which it was featured), more than 35 years ago. That film, along with A Clockwork Orange, really gave me more of an appreciation of classical music. Many years ago a friend of a guitar-player friend came out from back east to attend a summer workshop for gifted violinists. My friend brought her to my studio where we miced her up, plugged her in, picked up our guitars and played. Without written music in front of her, she was completely lost. Couldn't improvise her way out of a paper bag! But put a sheet of music in front of her and she played beautifully! Bill, tgo | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2129 Registered: 5-2009 |
Peter , I think that is true. I think that there must be documented studies on this phenomenon some where that have been done . This could really make for interesting discussions. Perhaps I will start a new thread on this discussion topic soon .I will search for links to jump the discussion from. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2130 Registered: 5-2009 |
Bill, yes I know other classical players like that. There is so much dogma and discipline in classical music that when there is permission to "get loose" the brain might "freak out " "OH NO, where is the music map". | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1061 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've had the opposite experience as well. Back when I was at Berklee in the early 80s and collaborated with some New England Conservatory folks all the way up to the more recent past, I've had wonderful improvisations with people from a classical background. I've discovered that those that are open to it are much more willing to suspend all preconceived notions of musical style and put their full attention and intention into listening and creating a language of the moment. This can come from completely free improv to using non-traditional materials as scores. In contrast, with many rock musicians improv seems to mean rehashing blues rock licks without much attention to what's going on around them. I've had similar experiences with some jazz musicians. What people seem to fail to realize across many genres is that freedom is not license. Listening is far more important than playing. It's easy to categorize people according to stylistic pigeonholes and then apply stereotypes, but the truth in my experience is that in every area of music you will find extraordinary people who truly listen and live in the moment and are able to express that musically. It transcends genres and all social boundaries. I used to play in a band here in Boulder called Headgear which was led by a guitarist who had spent 20 years composing some highly idiosyncratic music with many through composed sections interspersed with absolutely free improv. Aside from myself, there was a classical violist and a drummer who halfway through the project abandoned the drum kit for a full-time commitment to tabla. It was an amazing experience to spend lots of time with them creating a common language, working on the written out parts and also working on conceptual improv (what does this picture sound like? How do we link concepts like ocean travel and an unmade bed in a musical piece?). One of my musical highlights was playing John Zorn's musical game, COBRA, which involves a very complex and delicate structure, requiring that the players be able to leap not only styles and genres but roles applicable to their instrument. One aspect is that in the course of the game, you might be called on to take over the musical role played by another. How do you play a drum part on the bass? A DJ part? A trumpet part infused with harmonics? In the performance in which I was involved, the players ranged from hip hop DJs to classical and jazz horn players, to ethnic musicians (bazouki, tabla, etc.) to rock musicians to jazz players. Everyone was of a very high caliber and at the conclusion when we were packing up, I got perhaps the greatest compliment of my life. Ron Miles, trumpeter extraordinaire and frequent collaborator of Bill Frisell, came up to me and declared that I had "big ears." Bill, I remember seeing Zardoz at an art theater back in 1979 or so in a double feature with A Boy and his Dog. Great use of the 7th Symphony! I started playing classical music around the age of 3 or so and ended up with 10 years of oboe playing, so I got great experience doing everything from orchestral playing to chamber music, from renaissance to modern. Learning how to rehearse and perform in a chamber group does wonders for your ability to play in a rock band! My grandfather was a post 12 tone modern classical composer of piano music (and compatriot of Elliot Carter, Arthur Berger, etc.) so I grew up hearing some really weird stuff that I accepted as music. It's interesting to hear music that is incredibly carefully structured that sounds like improvisation! OK, enough rambling. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10416 Registered: 5-2002 |
This has been a delightful thread to read, but I really liked reading how there are those who "... put their full attention and intention into listening and creating a language of the moment ..." and that there are "... extraordinary people who truly listen and live in the moment and are able to express that musically ..." I just really enjoyed reading that. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2131 Registered: 5-2009 |
I started out with piano lessons at 8 years old moved to Trumpet at 10 and currently still play The Trumpet and various other Brass instruments and have had various Orchestral and classical experience as well as Jazz,Blues R&B ,Rock of course, etc... . I remember an incident a few decades ago when I was highly reprimanded from a conductor when I got bored just sitting and counting out over 100 bars until I played my part in the score , so I started to improvise variations of what the clarinets were playing. I played pianissimo so that I thought I might get away with it . When it was my turn to play I did so with accurate delivery and great tone. We finished the piece and the conductor walked over to me and just glared for a moment with a red face and then ask me to follow him to the corner of the room and he spoke" WOLF ___ what you played in your moment of rebellion and total disregard of discipline worked harmonically ,HOWEVER it was not as written because , you had nothing written in my score and I did not que you for a cadenza . If you do that again I will stop mid piece and point at you and that will be your QUE to put your Trumpet in the case and leave the room." I still have fun to this day " faking classical motifs" both on the Trumpet and Bass. I just can't help to feel what ever the music is in my soul regardless of style if it moves me. I think if you can feel it in your soul and you have " BIG EARS" as Edwin describes and can really listen and then interact musically in improvisation then that makes for chemistry that will gel well with more continuity with the other players . Yes I like "Creating a language of the moment" as well . Edwin's words work well to describe that. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1063 Registered: 5-2002 |
Right on, Wolf! The bummer of that scenario is that the composer of that piece might well have thoroughly enjoyed your moments of inspiration. Bach and Mozart were apparently just two wicked examples of improvisers amongst their many peers over the ages. There was much about classical music where improvisation was expected. Watching my grandfather realize figured bass on the fly was a great experience and he could also improvise in the styles of many of the classical composers. I just wish I had a handle on what I do now before he passed. PS. Kind of a lame conductor if he didn't know the difference between a counter melody and a cadenza! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2132 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin ,yes by correct description I was playing counter melodies but in his moment of disgust of what he perceived as my lack of respect he was being sarcastic in expressing that it was not my turn to "solo freely" nor was it a place where to do it. He was really trying hard not to raise his voice and completely scare me away , which happened anyway as a result. He later called me back with kind words about my tone but concern for my musical future due to my clueless escapades . Your Grandfather sounds like he was a fascinating person. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2133 Registered: 5-2009 |
Since we are chatting about a cross of classical inspiration , here is a surprise , I like these Ladies ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z56OJ0QcUYs | ||
| artswork99
Moderator Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1607 Registered: 7-2007 |
Great scenes, I really need to see these movies. Nice read too, wonderful connections to the muse. I have always enjoyed classical music since my early introduction. Last summer I had the pleasure and honor of spending a week in the wings admiring the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra and B.E. Taylor with Marvin Hamlisch conducting. From the rehearsals to the five nights of performance each night was another pleasurable experience, a most memorable week of my life. Mr. Hamlisch was unbelievable to watch during rehearsals as he translated these full scores, stopping when he needed to and making instant corrections for any part of the orchestra on the fly. I spent a great week with my friend Tom, who plays bass with B.E. Taylor's group and invited me to enjoy this wonderful experience! The mastery of a symphony orchestra is hypnotizing to me. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2136 Registered: 5-2009 |
I also can feel the magic of a symphony , that magic was planted in my psyche long ago . At the age of 9 my father wanted to share his love for Magnetic Tape Recording with me and gave me a reel to reel tape recorder for my Birthday . With that Tape Machine he gave me a Reel to Reel recording of Brahms Symphony number 3 with Herbert Von Karajan conducting the Berlin Symphony . The third movement is absolutely sacred to me and always will be ; .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84FEMDX29Y8 The recapitulated theme played by the 1st French Horn haunts my soul with memories of my Father; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCnExW2Pkos&feature=related | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2137 Registered: 5-2009 |
Here is Brahms Symphony #3 1st movement , much more turbulence ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvcg3fXV3rs | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10417 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for the Brahms! The theme of the third movement is beautiful. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2140 Registered: 5-2009 |
I am glad you like it, you are very welcome. |
