| Author | Message | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 467 Registered: 12-2002 |
johnny:prostate cancer @ age 55. rick: @ age 56 diabedic. legends of the music game, anybody got any take on these two 'hall of fame' artists careers? im old school and thought both cats we're pretty groovy. | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 286 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'll say the same thing I usually say after these types of announcements: These men died WAY too young, and God Rest Their Souls. But . . . how long might Rick James have lived had he not done cubic yards of cocaine? The music business is just SOOO woefully short of positive role models. Cats have been dying from consumption since the dawn of the Jazz Age, thru the beat generation, the Sixties, disco, punk, metal, country . . . . I just get so tired of so many talented people throwing their lives away for booze and junk. It just happens again and again and again. It may strike a nerve here in this particular forum, and I mean no disrespect, but do you REALLY think Jerry Garcia is grateful now? Want to be cool? Live to be really old, and die in bed with your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren at your bedside. . . . not from a coke heart attack before you can even join AARP. Friends, believe me: I've seen human beings ingest everything known to man. IF I could have found the first user of whatever who really was cooler, better, sexier, etc., I'd have worn them out to make them tell me the secret. I'm still looking. I HAVE found their OTHER secrets: rehab, failed marriages, broken homes, arrests, convictions, crashed carrers, failed lives . . . When will we ever learn? J o e y | ||
| kungfusheriff
Intermediate Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 152 Registered: 8-2003 |
The autopsy results are in...according to the AP Rick James had cocaine, meth, Valium, Xanax, Vicodin and other drugs in his system but not at life-threatening levels. The official cause of death was a heart attack brought on by an enlarged heart and aggravated by pneumonia and the residual effects of the drugs in his system. Sad. | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 143 Registered: 3-2004 |
"Cocaine's a hell of a drug." Rick James. The man gave us some great grooves. I thought he was cleaned up. I guess I was wrong. How cool was it that he posed with a "Rick" on his album! So do we need any more proof that drugs are destructive? "Drugs are bad... don't do drugs... mmmmkay? MMMKAY!" Mr. Mackie Danno | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 862 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey, since you asked. And I'll try to be very brief. Not every one tries drugs just to be "cool". For some it is an escape from the suffering they experience in their lives. Each person's path is unique, and none of us can know what another experiences. For instance, for a kid who lives each day with an abusive parent, whose life seems to be one of constant suffering, the few hours of bliss drugs offer can be very attractive. For others, it may be on some level part of a spiritual search; the experience of a meaningful change in perception. Again, each person's life is different. For some, there is a strong desire for a spiritual experience, or spiritual understanding of life, that the religious path of their parents, or lack thereof, did not provide. For them, drugs may provide the first hint that there are indeed alternative spiritual paths. And then there are those, as you have stated, who only try drugs because their friends do and they think it's "cool". In the sixties, LSD opened the "doors of perception" to many people who found the experience of perceiving the world from such a totally different perspective to be a spiritual awakening. As a result, many of them soon found spiritual paths to follow and left the drugs behind. Others did not. Mushrooms, peyote, etc. have been integral to various spiritual practices throughout history. Under the guidance of a spiritual advisor, as for instance in the American Indian peyote cults of the nineteenth century, they can provide that glimpse of the "sacred". Personally, I would not advise anyone to use drugs. For those who seek spiritual experience, there are many spiritual practices and teachers whose guidance will lead to a spiritual path deeper and more profound than that of drugs. For those who wish to escape the suffering of their lives, there are also paths available; a change in environment, counseling, spiritual teachers, etc. I guess my point is that for some, drugs may be a valuable teacher, a signpost along the way. For some others, drugs may be a warning sign of serious problems in one's life that need addressing. In the interest in being brief <g>, I'll stop here. | ||
| hollis
Advanced Member Username: hollis Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2003 |
This thread seems to be calling my name…. I too shall be as brief as possible. All in all, I tend to agree with Dave's points of view on this subject. My life has been shaped by every experience, some good, others not so good. The skill has come in the balance. Sadly, I’ve lost family and friends to many forms of abuse. Abuse of power killed several dear friends in Vietnam. Substance abuse has taken many others. Does this mean that all power is bad? Should I have avoided all mind-altering substances? Too late! Can’t turn the clock back. The truth is, I wouldn’t change one heart wrenching moment any more than I would change those filled with blissful perfection. I am the sum total of all these experiences and I feel pretty damn good inside my own skin. I try to stay as far away from generalizations about drugs as I do about anything else. There have been many tragic losses. There have also been paramount achievements, both spiritually and artistically. End of sermon Take good care. -Hollis | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 289 Registered: 9-2002 |
I am now old enough to accept that there are many valid points of view in this big world that's full of many experiences and revelations I shall never realize myself. And I really dig being here with all of you. But speaking strictly and only for myself, I will never change my mind about this. I could never choose to grease the hinges on the doors of perception that way. Life is precious, terrifying, exciting, heartbreaking, bright as the clear blue sky and as dark as a coalmine at midnight. But this is a journey on the way to somewhere better, and I choose to do it the hard way. I wasn't built to be a tragic loss, and I guess I'll just have to sweat out my achievements, knowing full well they won't be paramount: But they'll be mine. You must understand this triggers such anger in me because I wonder what (Entwistle, Hendrix, fill in your favorite here) would sound like NOW. My mind simply doesn't understand dying early just to feed the monkey. J o e y | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 581 Registered: 11-2003 |
What I remember about the sixties and early seventies is the spiritualality and conscience opening virtues of acid and the like was hype. Tripping was about getting high. Yes, I did it to. Did it give me any great new insights or revelations? No, and if I had spent that time more wisely, say in studying, my mind would have be widened much, much more than 12 hours of riding out a chemical could have ever done. I'm still paying the price physically for those years of being young, wild, and free. Joey is right, do the research not only on the dead but the living with ravaged bodies and minds. My 2 cents worth of soap box. Sam | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1606 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi friends ...what I am going to write is highly personal ...it is not private so everybody may know it but ...well ...you'll understand. Some ideas: - "Drugs" is a VERY cultural "Loaded" word. I think the original meanings could be found in a "healing" way. Although that meaning was in a "control" mode: you have to be in control of what you do or try to achieve I think. When the "drug" gets out of control it is NOT a good thing. - Joey and Dave ...you are saying the same tings but approached from a different angle. The only thing that Dave added is: how to cope with the WANTING to reach the goal in life -the more spiritual side- and in no way able to reach it by means of your own. You are looking for help. A drug can help. - I think we ALL look for ways to soften the sharp edges of life. I drank a lot of alcohol. I was never dead-drunk, but the right amount of alcohol made life softer, easier to cope with, more sunshine, ...it made me feel more happy with the woos of everyday life. I stopped drinking the moment I felt that alcohol -and the urge for it- began to take control. On that moment I start to look out for ...more social accepted "drugs" = "life softeners". - Now this is interesting. Is sex a social accepted drug?? Is smoking (it WAS once!)?? Is playing music (you know ...bass guitar ...they come in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 strings and are sounding very low)?? Is violence??? Is television? Are computergames?? - You will not believe me but there are social accepted drugs that you even not know you take them. You want proof? Who wants to do an experiment with me and this is a challenge for all US people! From today BAN all nutrition that includes ADDED sugar, chemical, natural, brown, liquid whatever ...NO sweet taste. So ...no beers, no alcohol, no syrups, jam, chocolates. Read the notes on the packs, if it says SUGAR ...don't eat it. Even if it is a chemical sugar. Sugar is the most social accepted drug -and destroying drug- of life. Do the experiment for just 3 weeks. After exactly 4 days the de-tox signals will appear: you will have terrible headaches, you will feel highly incomfortable. they will last until the 10th day. After that period your body -the pancreas more specific- will have re-learned to get the so necessary sugar (you NEED sugar, your muscles do) out of the food you eat. You will feel more active and alert in mind and physically. Believe me ...I've been there. Sugar is one of the most hidden "life-softeners" there exist. And they kill ...a LOT! And they will kill a lot more. Did you checked the overweight-ratio of people?? The pancreas -who is out of work because people get the sugar "pure"- stores all the energy in fat for "time to come" ...HA! Do you want to live through a "De-tox" session. You are not addicted??? Do the test ...it will not harm you but it will prove the fact that you are "addicted" to someting you even didn't know. O ...nutrition scientist KNOW this already a LONG time but the foodbusiness-cartel is even more powerfull as the petroleum-cartel! Drugs ...very strange topic. Another 2 cents (yeah right) Paul the bad one | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 868 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hollis; I share the idea that all of my life experiences have brought me to where I am right now, and that I can therefore accept them all. Joey; I am certainly not suggesting that you take drugs for whatever reason. And I am not suggesting that your decision to pass up drugs makes your journey any less relevant. Your journey is your journey and it is as relevant to your experience as anyone else's journey is to their experience. Sam; not everyone's experience of the sixties and seventies was the same as yours. While for you it may have been "hype", for some others it was not. One of the best known examples is Richard Alpert. LSD opened the door for Alpert, and from their he left drugs behind and found his spiritual path. The result was a lifetime of compassion and selfless service to countless others who are no doubt grateful that Alpert tried LSD early in his life. And there are many others who had a similar result. Does this mean everyone should try LSD? No it does not. Each person's path is different. Today there are many more choices of paths to spiritual awakening and/or fullfillment available to people than there were in the sixties. There is much more information available. And in my opinion there are better choices than LSD; but it's only my opinion based on my experience. My point here is that just because drugs were only "hype" and only about getting high for you in the sixties, that doesn't mean it was that way for everyone. Paul; nice post! I really like the part about the sugar. And I've done the ten day rice diet; your body does go through changes. Dave | ||
| hollis
Advanced Member Username: hollis Post Number: 367 Registered: 11-2003 |
God, I love this group of folks. I thank you all for your very interesting, thought provoking points of view. It's all part of the process.... I'm glad that we're in this thing together. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1609 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Hollis, it's time to consult a shrink ...you MUST be a bassplayer in denial!!!!!! hehehehehe.... Paul the bad one | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 582 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dave, fair enough, your point is well made and taken. Clearly we moved in different circles. I think I would have liked yours better. My circle seemed hell bent on self destruction sometimes. Hindsight, huh? I didn't mean to take away from your experiences or lessons learned from them. They are quite valid. You’re right, we’re all different and generalizing is rarely a good idea. It's just that where I was I saw more bad than good. Sam | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 147 Registered: 3-2004 |
Does experimentation transfer to the children? I teach ED special ed kids from horrid backgrounds. A kid chose drugs over the summer and hasn't returned to school. Kids aren't tuning in while listening to Jerry and the Airplane. They are dying on E, Meth, coke, herion and crack. Herb is the least of it. One man's opinion. Danno | ||
| hydrargyrum
Junior Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2004 |
There have been occasions in my life where I felt just about the lowest I could conceive of. Then suddenly I could conjure a sense of wonder and beauty that reaffirmed my faith in the majesty of the world around me, just by eating a piece of paper half the size of my pinky nail. I have had good and bad experiences, but I relate each one to being a part of my own consiousness revealed in dazzling glory. That said, these times are behind me now for the most part (I still enjoy a good wine, cigar, etc). What hasn't changed is the memory that my world is indeed intrisically related to my perception of it. We each are charged with the personal responsibility for our decisions, and the stakes are the highest possible. But before we condemn "drug" use as a whole we should consider that there would be no Purple Haze, no Lucy in The Sky, no Strange Brew, or any other myriad of incredible songs that were inspired by these substances, and there is no way to quantify the effect that they had on the people making the music. Just listen to the Beatles after Bob Dylan introduced them to marijuana, we see a change from I want to Hold your Hand, to She Said She Said (a song composed while John, George and Peter Fonda were tripping). Would their music have progressed, sure almost certainly, but would it have been as good? Who can say? | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 296 Registered: 9-2002 |
But yes it is a double standard, isn't it? Imagine the inspiration your Delta captain could have on your next trip to Cancun, doing a couple of barrel rolls after he hits the bong. Or the amazingly far out stitch patterns your surgeon could run right after he finishes your bypass surgery while he's amped up! I bet my CPA could make me a paper millionaire when he does my taxes (wait a minute, I may be on to something here..) I just can't wait for my root canal from my dentist, while he's more loaded on novocaine than what he's gonna give me. Turn up the nitrous, and Let's Rock ! ! ! ! J o e y (Yes, I KNOW I'm being a real pain about this.) | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 472 Registered: 12-2002 |
There are a lot of 'big stars' that are still "using" thats the thing about the music business (getting high) is a very big part of the entertainment business and it going away no time soon, it all boils down to supply & demand | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 878 Registered: 5-2002 |
Keavin; I don't believe that it is accurate to say that it "all boils down to supply & demand". Read a biography of Miles Davis or Charley Parker. The life experiences each person accumulates, along with their genetic chemistry, leads to the choices we each make. Saying that it is merely a question of supply and demand, suggests that it's merely economics. Such a position ignores the mental state of a teenager who has been continuously beaten by his father or the musician who is the star attraction on the bandstand at the hotel ballroom but because of segregation is not allowed to eat or sleep in that same hotel. For many people, drugs are an attempt to escape from the suffering of the world in which they live. In some parts of the world teenagers sniff gasoline to get high and escape the extreme poverty they suffer. If they are sniffing gasoline then "supply and demand" doesn't seem to really apply. People suffer. And they want the suffering to end. Personally, for me the answer to the end of suffering lies along a spiritual path. Some folks, who seek an end to their suffering, do not see or are not aware of that option. For many, drugs are a quick and easy answer, though brief and destructive. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Junior Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2004 |
Joey: I guess I must be confused, I thought we were talking about people playing music, not performing brain surgery. I have torn life's throat and slaked my thirst from the salty froth. I've walked the razors edge, and been cut, but I still regret none of it. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Junior Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2004 |
Joey, Oh yeah, just imagine the inspirational path the drunk driver can take home as well. Being and adult means taking resopnsibility for your actions, and there are plenty of other temptations without the necessity of villifying an inanimate chemical due to societal stigmas. Anyone who endangers someone else with their actions is acting irresponsibly, and I would never defend them. However, I do believe that personal freedom does not mean having all the difficult decisions made for you in your life. And afetr all, it is their own body, let them do what they wish. These muscicians as happy as they make us, are not here to serve our ends, but rather their own. | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 148 Registered: 3-2004 |
Life alone is enough stimulation and inspiration for me, thank you very much. Each to their own but by all means, leave my life out of it. If someone is in a controlled enviornment like a studio or escorted around a stage that is one thing. If they are out among us that is quite another. It is a shame that some fans try drugs to emulate their heroes. Some to success in creating, more to tradegy in reality. If you believe that your experiences have molded and transformed in a way that you embrace, you are one of the lucky few and have accepted your choices. Like I said I also deal with teenagers. That is a paramount influence on my forming opinions. I found greater inspiration in making my music by listening to others and buying better gear. Hence Alembic! I never popped, shot, toked, smoked, snorted or swallowed anything thinging that it make me a better player. I did cop a lot of vinyl and plastic to help in that area though. Those of you who have no regrets are extremely fortunate indeed. I think most folks have tons. I have a number of them but never my Alembic aquisitions! One man's opinion, Danno | ||
| hydrargyrum
Junior Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I say I have no regrets I was referring to my choice to experiment with chemicals earlier in my life. I wouldn't argue that anyone under the influence plays any better either. I was just trying to say that the change in perspective for some people can provide tremendous inspiration. There is no denying that many people end up destroyed. There is also no denying the connection between drugs and culture. From Sammuel Taylor Coleridge with his opium to Van Gough with his Absinthe to Louis Armstrong with his "New Orleans Gold." Or, to consider religion, from the eucharist wine to peyote rituals to the sects of hinduism that employ marijuana. I simply object to the bias in our society that there are good and bad compounds, and that we are not individually responsible enough to make good decisions about whether to use them. A fact often excluded from drug abuse statistics is that perscription drugs kill several orders of magnitude more people a year than illegal drugs. I can understand why working with teenagers would present a new perspective, however, because as confused as they often are, objective decisions may be difficult to reach. There are many ways to enjoy life, and I don't think any person has a best way. Ultimately all I am arguing for is freedom for responsible adults. | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 150 Registered: 3-2004 |
I agree with many of the points made here. Personal freedom is to be cherished. But as you mentioned some individuals are irresponsible and intrude on the rights and lives of others. I chose my lifestyle on experiences and seeing the experiences of others. Being in a band years ago with an alcoholic herion user, and drummer who od'd after letting loose with some old "friends", and a guitarist I played with in High School dead at 41 because his heart wore out from too much "living on the edge" have left their marks. I also agree that certain substances are deemed tolerable and others not. I lost my mom to her choice to smoke for many years. She chose to smoke and ignore advice. I miss her deeply. For me not smoking, not drinking (most of the time) and not doing drugs makes sense and affords me more toys from Santa Rosa. Adolf Coors is probobly mad at me, Not to mention the cartels from South America, and don't get me started on the poppy growers in Turkey. Juan Valdez is none too pleased either but Thomas Lipton likes me. I never get a Christmas card ever from those other folks! We never Have to agree with one another on everything, but we do agree on some things. That would be that my life would be further enriched with a series 2 5er or 6er with custom inlays. Alembic, my addiction. Hi I'm Danno and I'm an Alemboholic. ( Hi Danno) It's just one bass at a time..... one bass at a time. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Junior Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2004 |
Don't bogart that Alembic! Seriously though, it is too bad that we all have to live by the rules necessary to govern the least among us. BTW, I always preferred home grown, no terrorist support there, just American tax payers. | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2002 |
Danno, "It's just one bass at a time..... one bass at a time." ...unless you're Michael Manring, then it's just three basses at a time (LOL)  Mike (Message edited by dadabass2001 on September 26, 2004) | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 151 Registered: 3-2004 |
Not to stear this in that direction, you are correct sir! I saw him and Michael Hedges at the Bottom Line and it was sick! Maybe this is the inspiration to have a triple neck built! Now it sounds like I'm on drugs! Good point about the least among us. Perhaps Alembic folk are the upper edge of the bell curve? Danno | ||
| lbpesq
Junior Username: lbpesq Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2004 |
Let's get real guys. American society is a drug culture. Every town has a big sign "DRUG STORE". Have a problem? Go to the doctor and get DRUGS. Heck, something like 95% of adults in this country are addicted to speed (can you say double mocha cappucino). Let's call a spade a spade. The government is conducting a "war on some drugs". It just makes no logical or scientific sense that substances like cocaine and morphine (schedule 2) can be used medically; substances that regularly cause death are sold over the counter, even to minors, (aspirin poisoning causes 1000 - 1500 deaths per year nationally); while congress is now considering a bill that could result in a ten year mandatory miniumum sentence for selling a joint, even a first offense. In recorded history there is not a single account of a death from cannabis overdose. Scientists have estimated that you would have to smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole in 15 minutes to receive a lethal dose. Hey, if you want to sit in your underwear, drink two sixes of Bud and watch the cheeseheads beat the hell out of the Giants be my guest. If you want to stop at a bar on the way home and chug a few, then get in your car on the same road as me, then I've got a problem. Same with cannabis, or any other substance, even allergy medicine. We are adults, we should at least be allowed the opportunity to act irresponsibly before we are imprisoned for it. That's how they do it in a free democratic society. Bill, the guitar one | ||
| son_of_magni
Intermediate Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2004 |
Wow, what a thread! Really guys, my head is spinning trying to digest all this. But there are a couple points I feel compelled to add. I personally cannot understand the whole concept of using drugs to 'get away' or 'escape' from our problems. I feel that if I was in a hellish situation like that of a teenager who is beaten by his father, taking drugs would tend to amplify my feelings about my situation. My experience is that if someone has the idea that he wants to 'trip', before taking that plunge the individual needs to put all his baggage behind him. Have a clear mind and be prepared to deal with any ugly thoughts that spring up. Know how to meditate. Understand about the 'internal dialog' and it's tendancy to encourage indulging in negative emotions. Make sure you are in a setting that is comfortable and that you are with friends or are very capable of being alone with yourself. Read Leary and Alpert. Drugs are not in and of themselves destructive. It's what we do with them. It's been said that LSD can allow you to see Jesus, but it's only temporary. Only a true, long, and difficult spirtual path can bring true enlightenment. But for some people, drugs can help show the path. Generally speaking, people that have not taken 'mind altering' substances cannot really understand what it means when we speak of 'experiencing the world from a new perspective'. So when someone says that they have never taken mind altering drugs and in the same breath that these drugs can have no value, I have trouble understanding on what they base their opinion. Many years ago I indulged in and abused some drugs. Maybe not the the extent that many others do. Today I feel that some drugs can be valuable tools for the right people in the right situation. But like with anything else, if they are indulged in and abused, they can just as easily be dangerous and destructive. - SoM |
