| Author | Message | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1888 Registered: 11-2004 |
Okay Sunday evening, chilling out, watching some bass vids on YouTube and I come across this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nywZCDQoNU0&feature=endscreen&NR=1 Now I am not a Billy Sheehan fan but he has a great reputation of being a superb rock bass player but at 2.20 on the vid he explains that he has bolted a lump of brass at the headstock to add mass! Now what I want to know is that why would you do that! To be frankly honest I think it is a load of bull****. I am sure that Yamaha have spent a lot of time and money in their R & D dept developing there basses only for someone to screw a lump of metal on them. Can you imagine the nightmare scenario if we Alembic owners did that? Explanations please..however ludricus. (Oh yes, his bass sounds really bad too!) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10776 Registered: 5-2002 |
Terry; I think the fatfinger was developed for people playing basses (and guitars) with necks made of a single piece of wood that tended to have dead spots. The dead spots would tend to reduce sustain. The effect that the fatfinger had on the neck depended upon where you clamped it on the headstock. Of course another way to address the problem (and in my view a significantly better way) is to build the instrument with a multi-ply neck. And in my own somewhat biased view, the multi-ply neck looks a lot nicer than the single-ply with clamp attached. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10777 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh ... and yes; Billy can play. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1764 Registered: 2-2005 |
It actually works. The Fender style necks and head shapes, even on laminated necks I own, have dead spots. On my basses it is usually around the fifth fret on the G string and somewhat less on the 10th fret of the D string. It has to do with the mass of the head related to the neck. By adding the extra weight you hopefully move the dead spot out of the range of the neck. Keith | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1766 Registered: 2-2005 |
Meant to ask, "Are you staying cool up there Dave?". Definitely not down here. Keith | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10778 Registered: 5-2002 |
It's 88 here in the living room; a bit cooler downstairs in the kitchen. And it's a bit cloudy outside right now, so it's cooled to 88 outside as a result; there are distant sounds of thunder, and I'm hoping for some rain. The current forecast suggests that the next hour or so is the best chance we're going to get for some rain. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1768 Registered: 2-2005 |
What I wouldn't give for 88 right now. According to the thermometer we've finally dropped below 100 with the clouds moving in. Keith | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2243 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've carefully applied a C-clamp to the headstock of more than a few basses when recording. Sometimes it works really well and other times it's not so noticeable. The more strings an instrument has, in my experience, the more consistent the tone across the neck and up/down the fingerboard. I assume the extra tension has a stiffening effect. Only hit 101 degrees here in West-Central Indiana today, and it's dry enough that it's bearable. We haven't had any rain since mid-May though, and the fire danger is significant. We need rain. Might be in your neck of the woods next weekend, Dave, as we have a long weekend and will be in search of some cool mountain camping.. John | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1889 Registered: 11-2004 |
Sorry guys.. I ain't convinced about clamping/screwing metal to your instruments. It's like bolting a cheap 'go faster' body kit to a Ferarri.. I may be lucky but my 83 Squier P bass doesn't have any dead spots at all and it has an Alembic P/J pick up set up. On another note here in the UK our summer is dead in the water..literally!(rain, rain and more rain) Maybe I am the exception | ||
| flpete1uw
Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2011 |
That was Freaking Cool Dave!!!! Great Link | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10779 Registered: 5-2002 |
John; would love to meet up with you if you're in the area and your schedule allows! Pete; yeah, I've watched it several times; they tear it up. We just had a really good rainstorm (yay!)(it even hailed for a while), and it's cooled off pretty good; so I'm off to the grocery store. | ||
| yogalembic
Intermediate Member Username: yogalembic Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2012 |
I have a co-worker who a member of the American Guild of Luthiers. He's also an Electonics Engineer, and holds a number of patents in regard to circuits, etc. We had a discussion in regards to the dead spot/fatfinger combo. Bottom line is, what is being dealt with is a combo of physics/materials. I have a Peavey Palaedium. 34", (ebony board, w/2 graphite strips running the neck's length), and the whole thing rings like a bell. My Lakland 55-02, 35", graphite strips in neck, maple board, has the noticable dead spot. Not as much as my '77 Jazz (the worst of the lot), but still present. Lee Sklar uses/endorses the Fatfinger and, quite frankly, that's good enough for me. I don't use one, but if I spent alot of time in the studio, I would consider using one. But, NEVER on my '77---that thing weighs 12lbs. as it is! (but what a sound! lol ) | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 371 Registered: 6-2006 |
Terry, there is no doubt that changing the weight of the headstock will cause a dead spot to move, or disappear. I have read many anecdotes regarding this problem, which seems fairly common, though not universal, among bolt on, one piece necks. Some have devised crafty ways to hide the additional weight, without attaching a fat finger. I have had a real world example of this phenomenon. I purchased an 87 Japanese Precision bass, that someone had removed the original tuners and put on some very light weight replacements. This bass had a significant dead spot at the 7th fret of the G string. I wanted to bring the bass back to a more original condition, so I installed the Hipshot version of the original open gear clover leaf tuners, which were noticeably heavier. The dead spot disappeared. I can understand your aesthetic opposition, but the science is real, not snake oil. Of the 7 or 8 one piece, bolt-on necks I've owned, only two have had dead spots. The G&L ASAT was pretty minor, and I learned to ignore it. The 87 P bass I mentioned was really bad, and if the new tuners hadn't fixed it I would have replaced the neck, or maybe bolted on a fat finger, who knows.......... | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3205 Registered: 10-2002 |
I used to play a fender exclusively. I found the best way to cure the flat spot was to buy an alembic and never touch the fender again :-) Graeme | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 616 Registered: 12-2004 |
All that talent and such horrible tone. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7790 Registered: 6-2000 |
Just touch your peghead to the wall (or the sofa) and add lots of mass if you want to see how that sounds. Even changing how hard you grip the bass will change the mass, since it's coupling too. Since you change your fretting hand position while you play, usually dead spots aren't exactly where you are fretting, but there are exceptions. You don't have to move it off the neck, just to not exactly where you are playing. I even know a person that can make a dead spot happen when nobody else who plays the bass can. He did eventually teach James how to do it sometimes. It's not exactly a marketable skill, but it does help show that since the bass isn't playing itself, the player can make a difference. | ||
| yogalembic
Intermediate Member Username: yogalembic Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2012 |
@ jacko....made me LOL! Just buy an Alembic = problem solved. Too good! @ briant....tone is quite subjective. Billy, Jeff Berlin, et. al. Some might complain that Jamerson's tone sounds like a goose fart on a muggy day. All monster players, all have a nitch, all get it done. I love listening to all of 'em, not only for the tone, but the Spirit of the player.. And the world continues to turn...... | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1375 Registered: 12-2004 |
Mica, For my next neck, can I get channels of hot lead poured in ala Pinewood derby cars? Because, you know, mass? Wait, nothing so banal as lead would suffice... could I get a bronze-palladium-rhodium alloy? Oh wait, let's go whole hog and just embed a fuel cell in the neck-- that way no need for ds-5. Bradley | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1888 Registered: 9-2002 |
Sheehan's always been a conundrum to me. Obviously a talented player, nice guy, but it just makes my skin crawl that a) he had to add that EB-O neck pickup to his old beater Fender, and then b)had DiMarzio make a custom version of that beast to add to his Yamahas since then. They market it as a 'subwoofer pickup (!)'. Well, at least I know what a submarine woofing sounds like. I can only imagine what it sounded like when he was using those motor-driven subwoofers in his rig. Must have kept lots of Immodium in the bus . . . . It went to one-hundred nine degrees F here in the Peoples' Republic of East Nashville last Friday. I tried to fry an egg on the sidewalk, but it burned. Really bummed as it's TOO HOT to ride the moto-psychle. J o e y | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1890 Registered: 11-2004 |
byoung..I like your humour!! Okay the full 'no money spared' custom maple with three ebony laminates in the neck, AAAAAA quilt maple top & back facings with 7 piece hippie sandwich body(ebony and purpleheart laminates) Series II electronics with additional bass & treble controls, 24K gold plated hardware, elaborate neck inlay(dragon or planet or zodiac symbols made with gold wire, precious stones etc) Initials in gold plate or wire, solid gold Alembic logo with swarski crystal back. Cost: more than a house mortgage Oh yes the final custom touch...can you screw this rusty truck wheel bearing to the back of the headstock with some self tapping screws for me Priceless! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3206 Registered: 10-2002 |
I saw Mr Big in Glasgow last year and Billy's tone was fantastic during his ensemble playing, every note coming across loud and distinct. Trouble was he spoiled it all during his solo - kicking in way too much distortion to come across well. I have several Mr Big vids and the same thing happens on just about all of them. He's now endorsing and using Hartke and I emailed him straight after the gig(via his website) to ask why. Amazingly, he got back to me pretty much straightaway saying that He'd still be using Ampeg if they hadn't stopped making them in the USA (and obviously, a load of free gear isn't to be sneezed at either). Graeme | ||
| darkstar01
Senior Member Username: darkstar01 Post Number: 427 Registered: 6-2005 |
...why does this matter? i'm not a sheehan fan, but i don't think his tone is awful. no one is forcing you to bolt anything to your instruments. i don't get it. and it's really hot. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1892 Registered: 11-2004 |
jacko..china rules eh?? I wish it was hot in the UK..more rain to come | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2245 Registered: 10-2003 |
@Dave - Looks like we're heading to the U.P. instead to spend some time riding forest roads and soaking in Lake Superior. @J o e y - Moto-psychle is going to be my new word for the day. Excellent. And as for Sheehan, the one time I saw him/them 20 years ago I was not impressed. His tone was unbearable (to me) and he seemed to not care in the least where the bass drum was.. Of course, they opened for Rush and Geddy was completely lost in the mix as well. It may have simply been an off-night (in Lubbock, Texas) for all involved. Perhaps someone fat-fingered the some crucial knobs and faders out front.. John | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1889 Registered: 9-2002 |
Following the passing of ownership of St Louis Music after Mr. Kornblum's death, the new owners folded the production facility for Ampeg in Arkansas and shipped production to Viet Nam. Lots of retailers passed on re-upping with Ampeg as their net prices did NOT go down, and in some cases actually increased, in the face of this supposedly cost-cutting move to offshore production. The current Ampeg has resumed production of some pieces back here once again, but it's a hodge-podge. This is not uncommon, but probably was mis-handled vis-a-vis their dealer relationships. There's only so much mileage you can get out of free drinks and strippers after hours at NAMM. Didn't get lots of takers for the factory tours . . . J o e y | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1893 Registered: 11-2004 |
I guess old USA Ampegs will be come more expensive second hand and owners of such equipment will hang onto them and repair rather than sell. I am all for buying within the country but it is getting harder as manufacturers are moving production to China/Vietnam/Malaysia. But remember when the Japanese began selling motorcycles and hi fi, tv's, cameras etc..they took over the world but even they have production facilities in the aforementioned countries Sheehan..his style doesn't float my boat | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2010 |
I admire Billy as a player, his playing is what it is, and I personally dont dig that kind of thing - but he is an amazing talent none the less. I also think that, for the kind of circumstances that he plays in, his tone is absolutely killer. I own an old Yamaha Attitude bass that I dont really play...and it is built like a sherman tank. A P bass on steroids. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10792 Registered: 5-2002 |
In case any of you have never heard any Niacin, here's a live video. Niacin is John Novello on keyboards, Dennis Chambers on drums, and Billy Sheehan on bass. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1897 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well Mr Houck that was Billy Sheehan as I have never heard him before, pretty damn good, as the vid notes say Emerson, Lake & Palmer with steroids! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3210 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have a couple of Niacin CDs. They do a great version of Birdland. Haven't listened to them for ages so I know what I'll be digging out this weekend. Graeme | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3001 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have a Nacin live DVD somewhere. It was the first time I'd seen Mr Sheehan performing. Jazzyvee | ||
| smokinbear
Intermediate Member Username: smokinbear Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2008 |
Niacin is one badass group!!! I saw the Mr. Big\Rush thing way back when too and was kinda like ???? WTF? These guys don't belong opening for Rush, but now Niacin is a different story. They should have opened for Rush on their last\current tour! Niacin sound like Gov't Mule with out Warren kind of.....Hey now I think it out Billy would be a great fit in Gov't Mule, Just a thought. Oh yeah those eb-0 pu's suck big time too! -Bear | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 283 Registered: 6-2004 |
I don't have much to say about Billy Sheehan,but I can say that adding mass to the neck of a bass by adding some weight at the headstock is a time-honored fix for the Fender style deadspot. Many a session saved by nothing more sophisticated than a c-clamp to the headstock. |
