| Author | Message | ||
| joebassman
New Username: joebassman Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2009 |
What is the recommended brand of cable to use on an Alembic bass that is under $80? | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1516 Registered: 11-2004 |
Joe, Nice spoiler in that profile picture! I'm not sure there is a 'preferred' cable, though there are several threads here on the forum about Monster Cables being slightly larger than normal and 'stretching' out the input jacks. If I was buying a new cable, I think I would avoid Monster cable for that reason. | ||
| jcdlc72
Intermediate Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2009 |
I've been using the Planet Waves Pro cable (I think is he name), the one that has a switch on the "Instrument" end, and it works without any hassles on my basses. Plus, the switch makes for a very nice commodity when switching basses, if needed be, or plugging/unplugging on different situations. | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 617 Registered: 12-2004 |
I use Mogami Gold cables and could not be happier with them. Their cable is high quality and they use neutrik (or similar?) connectors. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1769 Registered: 2-2005 |
To be the contrarian I have used Monster cables in all of my Alembics without any problems for a long time. Keith | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1517 Registered: 11-2004 |
Keith- I may be totally wrong about the monster cable jack stretching thing. I know there is a brand that has been discussed as being slightly larger, but my memory may be off about it being Monster. I'd do a search for it, by my phone makes such things tedious, so I'm going to skip that for now!  | ||
| yogalembic
Intermediate Member Username: yogalembic Post Number: 120 Registered: 5-2012 |
@ joebassman....I read your initial Post, and have a question.... Where in the world did you find an Alembic bass for under $80.00??? LOLLOLLOL | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10800 Registered: 5-2002 |
ROFL!! | ||
| tncaveman
Intermediate Member Username: tncaveman Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2011 |
Actually, the cheaper Monster Cable that I have is ever so slightly smaller in diameter than a standard one from my local guitar store (Shilo Music). And the tip has a slightly different shape. The MC cable worked fine in my Rogue, Rick, G&L, and Fender guitars and basses. It was my '89 Elan that did not like it. So, I'm now using a Horizon brand - they are about 10 bucks for a 10 ft'er. No noise and a lifetime warranty though my guitar store. George at Shilo wsa telling me about a killer cable made by PRS that has a tangle free cable for about $40. He was out of stock when I got the Horizon cord. Stephen | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1891 Registered: 9-2002 |
I've used the Monster Bass cables for a long time, as they were the first cable I really could hear a difference after using everything else over the years. I've given up on them as they have absolutely NO strain relief, it's pitiful. I no longer play out and I've broken them several times just around the house. So I had the OEM plugs cut off and replaced them with Neutriks, but they're going out the back door soon next time I get by GC and get a couple of Mogamis. J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1892 Registered: 9-2002 |
BTW, regardless of brand, I always hear a difference in a 10' cable vs. the usual 20'. I know there's some technical/impedance reason for this, and I do hear it, and prefer the shorter cable length. J o e y | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1771 Registered: 2-2005 |
Toby, Mica has stated that they have seen issues with the Monster cables. I am just reflecting that I have never had an issue. I have been using the same two cables from long before I bought my first Alembic. I always loop the cable through the strap but leave it hanging from the amp. The main reason I went with the Monster was when I gigged more regularly I could always drop into a GC to replace it under warranty. Something not always possible with other brands although this has improved over the years. Keith | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 618 Registered: 12-2004 |
Mogami cables also have a lifetime warranty and are readily available at Guitard Center. Though the only time I've ever had to replace one was when I accidentally left it behind at a gig. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5180 Registered: 7-2004 |
The one time I had a Monster cable that failed (PA speaker cable), I brought it back for the "lifetime warranty" and was told I had to ship it back to Monster. So much for convenience. I now avoid Monster cables. Bill, tgo | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3005 Registered: 6-2002 |
I used to use planet waves straight jacks when I was touring a lot and found them to be good cables except for the jack ends didn't seem to be very durable. Whenever a cable failed it was always at the jack end. In the end I cut their jacks off and put neutrik jacks on instead and not had any problems. However for bass I have made up my own leads with Klotz cable and neutrik jacks and they are great, very flexible and quiet. jazzyvee | ||
| flpete1uw
Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2011 |
This may sound a bit contrarian however I must have built, soldered, and constructed thousands of cables, harness and patchbays in my career in Audio Recording Studios. My question for you all is if you use a decent connector ( Switchcraft, Neutrix etc.) a decent well shielded cable, solder correctly and strain relief properly . If taken care of properly what could possibly go wrong? I have been using some of my cables for decades and never even thought of the cabling being an issue. I can see the length of the cable being an issue eventually because of capacitor signal loss though. Curious. Peace Pete | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10802 Registered: 5-2002 |
Pete; unfortunately for me, I have no soldering skills. I wish I did. At various times in my life, I've tried; even bought a book on soldering once a long time ago. But I've always ended up just making a mess of things. But I do agree with you. A couple Neutriks and some Canare, a few hits with a soldering iron; and your done. And personally, I would rather purchase cables from an individual who did the work themselves rather than buy mass produced cables. But yes, I would much rather make my own cables, if I wasn't so bad at it. | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2004 |
Pete, I agree with you that pretty much any cable if taken care of properly can last a very long time; if not forever. A friend of mine has had the same generic cables for at least 10 years if not more. He gigs/rehearses about as much as I do which is to say ~8 times a month both total. In the end you're 100% correct. If you have decent cable and put good connectors on it you're going to have a solid cable that will last. I've made a lot of cables as well. I sat for three nights and soldered speaker and XLR cables for an entire sound system for one band I was in. We never had a cable fail. For the money I've had really great luck with Mogami for off the shelf. I've used Monster Cable in the past and they have eventually failed at the jack. I had similar replacement experiences as Bill above (send it back to Monster). That's awful. I've also experienced the jack stretching pains that certain lines of Monster cable tend to induce. So for that reason I avoid Monster now as well. Can't have a cable fail and then have an emergency cable flop around in the loose jack. I'm rambling. I agree with you. If people don't have the skills to solder their own cables I always suggest Mogami because of the reliability. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1140 Registered: 1-2005 |
One thing I really regret is not learning soldering from my dad. But I'm glad that I was able to hang around and watch him solder the guts of my guitar when I found an article with an alternate wiring scheme in Guitar Player magazine back in the '80s & '90s! I've been using a Bullet Cable Coily Cable for a while - just bought it on a whim, thought later, hey, isn't this cable longer than necessary with all those coils? But it hasn't given me any problems and hey, Paul Gilbert uses them, so it can't be that bad can it? :/ (Message edited by hieronymous on July 08, 2012) | ||
| poor_nigel
Advanced Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2009 |
In the past I had problems with a couple of Monster cables not fitting my 1/4" jacks of my Alembic Anniversary bass. I called Monster and discussed it with them. They were aware of the problem. They sent me double the cables back for my hassle (4), and I was satisfied with the results received. These days I generally use Monster Pro 1000 cable to my rack and throughout my rack now. Zero problems - happy camper - this is a pricy venture, though. A couple of months ago I bought my friend a couple Monster 'Rock' cables off eBay for his birthday, to replace the ones his new puppy chewed into shreds. One came in with a dead end, so I called Monster (I would have to go along with Joey on no strain relief on these cheap cables - They are made well, but I was surprised when I opened the bad jack up and checked it out). I got some girl on the phone, Becky. She said they do not cover anything bought on eBay from non-authorized sellers. I told her OK, but if that was to be their attitude, I would have to stop using their products and they would lose a customer who has literally spent thousands on just cabling from them over the years. She that "That fine.' Wow, I am the nicest guy on the block until someone crosses the line with me. I went into bad customer mode and demanded her manager. She said she would connect me, but could not guarantee I would get him. Grrrrr . . . I ended up in his voice-mail, and was primed by them to rant his ear off. I left my number and went to their site to e-mail them. Before I could finish the e-mail the manger called, told me they were having a lot of problems on eBay with people and non-cable items, apologized countless times, and put two cables in the mail for me. A worker that says it is fine to lose a customer is one that does not want to keep their job long in this tight job market we live in. I hope Becky is doing fine at the yogurt shop or where ever she landed, as I could read in the manager's voice his displeasure in that bit of small talk she handed out. Anyway . . . I'm still using Monster cables until I do end up with a serious problem with them. Then I will switch to another brand I have heard good things about (I have read a lot of good stuff about Mogami cables). Pro 1000 cables are a bit different than Monster's others. If you play with one, you will instantly know the difference, even just picking one up. Some people may not like such a heavy cable that is hard to 'kink' and is not 'rubber' coated. I like Zaolla cables, too, nice and thick and have a solid silver core, but the price has gone up with the price of silver, so Monster Pro 1000's are cheaper these days, and Zaolla does not make rack length cables, just instrument ones. Maybe when I am done with the Zaollas, I can sell them for scrap silver? OK, I'm done yakking . . . | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 804 Registered: 9-2008 |
coils may impact an audio signal increasing cable inductance. that makes them more sensible to picking up magnetic fields interference (as RFI or AC hum) and can block higher harmonics due to inductive reactance. But seems that this undesired effects are being effectively controled by your series electronics and frequency loss isn't relevant or too far to be felt/heard | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 805 Registered: 9-2008 |
I make my own cables, you just need the thickest cable you can find (thick conductor, thick inner insulation and thick shielding). This reduces impedance, increasing signal level and reducing induced noises. It is also important to use braided shielding and opt for easy bending cables. Look for the lowest capacitance you may find to preserve lows of your bass and try using Neutrik plugs (or any top brand). Avoid foil shield, it is superior in insulating noises but they can break easier. This is ideal in a fixed instalation, like the one we use in studios, but not that good if you will be constantly unplugging, twisted and keeping it rolled in a gig bag (also being stepped in a dark stage). But let me warn you that cable isn't a thing that worth to save money. A top bass going trough a cheap cable will be leveled by the weakest element in your signal chain, like if you use a noisy cheesy pedal. | ||
| yogalembic
Intermediate Member Username: yogalembic Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2012 |
Belden #8412 mic cable (2 conductor + shield), solder one end of shield to neg. lead and lift shield on the other end, (2) Switchcraft #280 plugs, heat shrink 280 and cable, voila! Custom length instrument/pedal board cables, have used them for years and years and years. Had the opportunity to compare one of my 16' cables with the guitarists "oh-my-gosh-you-gotta-try-this-cable-it-sounds-incredible" $120.00, 12' instrument cable rip off. Mine was crisper, cleaner and had every bit the clear low end. "Pardon me, you paid HOW MUCH for this?" It's all subjective and, as always, comes down to personal taste. Meanwhile, I've heard great things and have read very positive reviews in regard to Planet Waves cables. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 806 Registered: 9-2008 |
Amphenol conectors can be a fine alternative to Neutrik. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5184 Registered: 7-2004 |
Doesn't the preamp in an Alembic negate the capacitance issue and allow long cable runs without loss, as opposed to a passive instrument? Bill, tgo | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 304 Registered: 5-2005 |
For new twist on cables, I was in Newington CT the past 2 weeks. I visited Upscale Music which is an authorized Fender repair shop. Mario Sousa is a fabulous technician with respect to guitars and electronics and runs a school to show one how to build and run a small home studio. He builds cables using Canare cable wires and Neutrik tips. An 18 ft cable ran less than 30 dollars. They are super quiet, and reveal the slightest noise in your chain which depending on your view is either excellent or a horror show. I want the details and if I have a problem somewhere else in the chain, I will address it. Very highly recommended for Fender repairs as well as the house cable. Really nice people to deal with. I think with Monster Cables you pay as much for their name and advertising as you do for an actual product. Same with Mogami (I am a nut job audiophile as well so both names although lower in that chain are well known to me). | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2007 |
I have been using Monster Pro Bass cable with my Orion for some time and all OK. The plug fit is tighter than others but works fine. I will stick my neck out and say that there is a slight (very slight but noticeable) difference in sound. The Monster has the effect of adding a bit more bass to the sound by removing treble. If I hadn't compared side by side though I probably would not have noticed. I have had to get used to the stiffness of the Monster. I have had good results with other basses from Mike Hill cables Milton Keynes UK who makes them up to order. I chose Van Damme Pro grade cable (coils beautifully) plus Neutrik silent plugs. I always am happy to pay £25 upwards. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1216 Registered: 5-2002 |
I agree with Pete. Making your own is always a good way to go. Soldering isn't that hard and if any of you are in Colorado and don't feel confident about your skills, get in touch, come on over, we'll spend an hour soldering and by the end of it, you'll be making cables like a pro. I wish my dad had taught me and I fully intend to teach Xander. Also, Bill is correct. With an active bass, 99.9% of the capacitance issues are moot for a cable less than 100 feet at least. I use Mogami cable and Neutrik ends. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10804 Registered: 5-2002 |
(Free soldering lessons! .. and a chance to meet Edwin! Let's see; how long would it take to drive from Asheville to Boulder?) (Oh; that long ...) (sigh) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5186 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dave: Perhaps you can stop off at Edwin's on your way out to the Northern California Gathering next spring. I'll even supply a soldering iron and some solder so you can practice your newfound skills!  Bill, tgo | ||
| yogalembic
Intermediate Member Username: yogalembic Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2012 |
Although I've not checked, I should imagine some excellant soldering instruction via youtube. | ||
| dlbydgtl
Intermediate Member Username: dlbydgtl Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2008 |
www.bettercables.com What i use. no issues. Just great sound. (Message edited by dlbydgtl on July 09, 2012) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10805 Registered: 5-2002 |
Except for the wear and tear on the car, and the gas, I would love to drive out next spring. Try to squeeze a foam pad and sleeping bag beside the speaker cabs, racks and bass, and a cooler in the front passenger seat. Oh, and the pedal board. Hmmm. Starting to get a bit crowded. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10806 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jay, you're right. I just checked youtube and there appear to be a number of videos on soldering. I watched the first one I came across and it was pretty good. | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 557 Registered: 5-2002 |
Interesting discussion! (This shows the nerd in me, if I think a discussion about cables is good). I whipped out my micrometer and measured a bunch of different plugs with varying use and age (e.g., they ain't gettin' bigger over the years). Standard Switchcraft = .2462 Ancient big Switchcraft = .2461 Mogami Silver Retail (Neutrik) = .2472 Monster Rock = .2473 ProCo Guardian Blackjack = .2473 The biggest spread was .001", which I doubt will make much difference. I do notice some differences in the tip shape which could account for connection issues. If there are differences in connection strength, it's probably differences in the jack more than the plug - it's amazing that guitar companies want to save $1.00 on a cheesy jack (this probably doesn't apply to the discussion here on the Alembic board though). I have a couple of fancy ProCo Guardian BlackJacks, which probably haven't been made for 10 years now. I liked the ends when I happened to try them out (don't know the manufacturer, but haven't seen them anywhere else). They're fat and have a strand of kevlar in the cable, which is cribbed from the unified wiring cables that are pulled through fancy new houses (the thin kevlar thread protects the conductor from being broken inside the cable if you pull on it). I also have a Mogami Silver, which is very thin and works well. I got some Monster Rock cables with right angle connectors for P-basses and the like. They seem perfectly nice, too I haven't seen them forever, but I loved those big Switchcraft brass plugs where the guts were milled from a brass rod and there was a plastic tube that slid over the connector and was set with a reverse threaded set screw. I still have my ancient Whirlwind Ultrasnake cables (over 30 years old now) and they're still great. I believe this was the connector used with the Alembic blue cables from back in the day. As has been mentioned above, with the active electronics in your Alembic, capacitance isn't an issue. Inductance isn't an issue with an instrument cable either (you need a lot more wire in a coil for there to be an effect). Soldering cables is actually pretty challenging, because the first rule of a good connection is to heat the plug enough to melt the solder. Getting a good ground connection is quite challenging because you need a very powerful soldering iron to heat up a big chunk of brass. The signal conductor is no big deal, but the shield connection is. I clicked on the YouTube video that Dave posted immediately before my post and this is a good example of how NOT to make a reliable cable! The guy in the video has the right equipment, but he has the wrong tip on his soldering iron and basically is sticking the shield in a solder pool on the surface of the connector. If the connector isn't heated enough, then you can't guarantee a full connection between the solder and the connector. The solder melts at a relatively low temperature in contact with the soldering iron, but if the contact isn't heated enough, then there will be a layer of oxide between the pool of solder and the connector which can compromise the sound and physical strength of the connector. He's using a $100 soldering iron which can generate a lot more heat than the $20 pencil that most people have. The cheapie soldering iron works great when you're putting a wire on a thin contact (like the center connector) or soldering small components to a PC board. To do a phono jack right, you want to use a powerful iron with a wide tip and put a lot of heat into the connector. You don't want to reuse the existing solder pad, you want to suck that off with a solder sucker, then create a new blob. The reason you do that is that the new solder has a rosin core flux which melts and cleans the metal surface (and makes that incense-like smoke that always floats into your face). Then you heat the connector again until the blob turns liquid, then stick the (already tinned) shield in there and hold it steady until the joint cools. David Fung | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10807 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks David! I watched a few more videos, and everyone did it differently, and one guy did it differently in different videos. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 807 Registered: 9-2008 |
Oh thanks David, I always learn a lot from your posts | ||
| flpete1uw
Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2011 |
Love all the passion on what takes the amazing tones of our instruments to its final destination. I guess we can take for granted certain skill sets we accumulate through the years. Soldering has become second nature to me only because of the volume of work completed throughout my career. Maybe open up a cable making shop? I digress. Like any skill, once you know what to look for it gets a lot easier. One of the keys is to have the metal of the connector hot enough to have the solder melt and flow towards it. Takes some practice in learning the right balance not to make anything to hot. The solder joint should end up shiny and smooth. When wire and connector becomes one. I try to do as much of my own work as possible, it gives me a sense of being more intimate with the outcome. Another part of the whole experience. Enjoy All, Peace Pete | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 558 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thought I'd burnish my nerddom by posting photos of plugs! It's mostly so young Alembicians can see what a "real" phone plug looks like! Here's some cables:  Left to right, a standard Switchcraft phone plug, Monster Rock, ProCo Guardian Blackjack, Mogami Silver, Whirlwind Ultrasnake. The left and right ones are Switchcraft plugs, the Mogami is Neutrik. I don't know who manufactures the two gold ones. Here's a close up of that old Ultrasnake jack. These were common as "the good stuff" back in the 70's and early 80's. I can't remember the special name Switchcraft had for these, but it had some sort of catchy name.  There's no bent metal in this plug. The body is a piece of solid brass rod with everything that isn't a phone jack milled away. The strain relief is a big, thick piece of steel that's crimped on. I had a bunch of these and never had an end go bad (it's not clear what you can do to these to damage them). I don't think these have been sold for many years. Here's a side view, too.  Enjoy! David Fung | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1907 Registered: 11-2004 |
Ok how nerdy can you guys get over wire and plugs! I tell you if I brought this up in the pub they would think I need counselling! A deep thread indeed! but interesting to say the least( I only read parts of it..yeah of course I did LOL) | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1238 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've always heard those (the Whirlwind) called "Switchcraft mil-spec" phone jacks, David - but that's the first one I've seen that didn't have a red sleeve (including, IIRC, the ones on the telephone switchboard my great-aunt operated in her living room). The only trouble I ever had with them is, being brass, they tarnish - you start to lose connection, then it's Brasso time! Peter | ||
| poor_nigel
Advanced Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2009 |
Hey David, I was in the military as a radio repairman during the early 70's and we had those brass 1/4" plugs in abundance for landline and headphones, and other speaker/signal connections. Since I was in a repair shop, I had boxes of em. Who knows who made em for the military, so might have been Switchcraft. I probably still have some in my old junk boxes in storage. I never thought of making a Play Plug fold-out of any of them, but I do have quite an obsession for old music gear, nonetheless. |
