| Author | Message | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 929 Registered: 9-2002 |
took some time off not too long ago from playing in bands and playing out because it basically got to be too much like having a second job...too many commitments, too many other people depending on you, along with a bunch of other rubbish that I saw going on that I didn't care for..a big factor was also the fact that a lot of gigs were requiring more travel time than before, and after everything was split 5-6 ways there was barely enough money to cover gas.. Slowly getting back into it, but just playing for myself mostly...started out as nothing more serious than just jam sessions..but slowly and surely I am finding myself getting sucked into something that could loosely be called a "band". What I mean by that is these folks are asking for more of my time ( I initially told them once a month), and now want to play "gigs". Problem is the stuff they want to play consists of events (farmers markets, etc) that will not make anyone any money, requires some travel time (40 minutes to 90 minutes for me), and take place under less than stellar conditions..(middle of the afternoon, in the summer, no shade, no sound guy, etc)...and at the end of the day will not do anything for this group of players since the people in attendance could care less about music, or they are pretty far from what could be considered the bands home turf. Having done many of these in the past, I learned that they are really more work than they are worth..especially with the economy the way it is these days... My thoughts anymore are "fewer but cooler" gigs..meaning Id rather play once a month or every other month at a place where I know people would appreciate the music, as opposed to playing out often to people that could care less..better if there is enough money involved to at least cover gas expenses. Thoughts ? | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 994 Registered: 11-2003 |
Greg - I do open mics for fun, but I agree that there are things I just won't haul my stuff out of my house for, e.g., country, modern rock, blues ... and by that I mean three, four sets of the stuff. If gas money is covered, I'm usually good with most things, however. I'm not a professional musician (though when I do play I try to adhere to professional standards), so it's not like I'm going to starve if I don't make dollar X for each gig. It's when people expect you to pay for free ("oh, you'll get great exposure!" - look, if I want exposure, I'll lie out in the sun) that puts me off. It costs money to buy the instruments, amps, other equipment, a vehicle to haul it all in, gas, insurance, etc. "Exposure" doesn't pay for any of that. Now, if you're doing a benefit for something out of the kindness of your heart, that's one thing. But playing for free? There has to be some modicum of remuneration if you ask me. And I'd agree also that I'd rather play out once a month or so where folks would appreciate the music. Nothing like playing for folks who dig what you do (or don't do). | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2256 Registered: 10-2003 |
While I would like to say I'm turning down gigs left and right, I generally play whenever a friend asks. For the most part I've been fortunate to work with excellent musicians, which makes all the other details somewhat irrelevant. I've narrowed my attendance of "open mic" situations to a weekly jazz jam in town, and my first Newcastle is always free.. Pretty much the only thing that turns me off from a gig is having to share the bandstand with someone who simply can't play their instrument. There's a drummer in town, who is a friend of mine, who can't make any two beats the same size and as a bassist it kills me to work with him, so I don't. And I've driven hours to play free gigs, not for the exposure but because I knew they would be fun.. John | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2257 Registered: 10-2003 |
While I would like to say I'm turning down gigs left and right, I generally play whenever a friend asks. For the most part I've been fortunate to work with excellent musicians, which makes all the other details somewhat irrelevant. I've narrowed my attendance of "open mic" situations to a weekly jazz jam in town, and my first Newcastle is always free.. Pretty much the only thing that turns me off from a gig is having to share the bandstand with someone who simply can't play their instrument. There's a drummer in town, who is a friend of mine, who can't make any two beats the same size and as a bassist it kills me to work with him, so I don't. And I've driven hours to play free gigs, not for the exposure but because I knew they would be fun.. John | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 854 Registered: 6-2006 |
Greg - I believe in some of your other posts you have indicated that you and I are living double lives = very similar frustrations with bands/ band members. One of the absolute coolest gigs I picked up is playing in a small concert band at assisted living/ retirement homes - they are some of the most appreciative audiences EVER! And noone rushes the stage and spills beer on you! To answer the topic of your post - I have lost interest in the local bar band scene - there just seems to be too much baggage that comes along with it and the people involved with it. If I get the urge for kickin' out the jams I will hit a local open mic night. So I do the concert band thing, hooked up with the local police department jazz and concert band and put my name out there for any misc. 'project' work, which in the past has included live festival shows, pit orchestra work and studio work - all very fulfilling and maybe more importantly all of them have an end date - it's get in, get it done and move on to the next one. This all bodes well for me because these events have an established 'leader' and expectations and goals are laid out - this environment usually weeds out anyone who isn't 'on board' so that everybody is focused on achieving the same end result - professional and FUN! | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1252 Registered: 10-2006 |
A guy I was doing sound for/sharing a house with was approached by his "agent" one time too many for a free appearance - his last words before hanging up? "Yeah, well, you can die of exposure." Then he sat down & wrote "Too Precious" with the refrain "It's too precious, too precious, can't be givin' it away no more". Peter | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 667 Registered: 2-2011 |
Pauldo, I have done some gigs lately at retirement homes & I totally agree with you! They are so appreciative that musicians would take time out of their work schedules to come entertain them for an hour & no one gets paid. The band I played with is led by fellow Alembic player Doc Green & has 2 trumpets & a sax player. I've always wanted to play in a band with horns, & to get to do for such a great audience made it that much more special! | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 481 Registered: 9-2004 |
I must be the exact opposite; if there isn’t any money, it is not worth doing. I think that when money is involved, the musicianship is often better and the gear usually is too. Not that there is very MUCH money, these days! Bands are like families, it just seems you have to put up with a lot to be in one no matter what. Hopefully you like the members and the toil enough so that when you get on stage, it is all worth it. | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 874 Registered: 4-2004 |
I recently started playing pedal steel w/ my cousin in a duo setting, and for the most part it's been a blast (farmers markets, vinyards, etc...). I appreciate that as a solo performer, he's been willing to bring me onboard and split the pay, even though he does the brunt of the heavy lifting~ I just follow along. That said, I passed on a freebie gig on Sat mainly because the weather was bad, and travel would've been twice as long as the set.... If it was a nice day the ride and the outdoor venue would've been fine by me, but I just couldn't justify it.... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10830 Registered: 5-2002 |
I haven't played a gig in a long time now (I can't play the tunes right at home, so there's no expectation I could play them right anywhere else). But in the spirit of the thread, here's some stuff off the top of my head ... - parking/load-in load-out; this needs to be easy, no stair carries, no worrying about where to park, etc. - I don't really wish to play someplace that can't keep their bathrooms clean and functioning properly - ventilation needs to be working and preferably there should be no smoking - no parties or venues where just anybody thinks they can walk up to the mic - I don't really want to play someplace where everybody in the room is watching the big screen teevee while you're playing - drunks; I don't really want to play someplace where drunks tend to disturb others in the room, start knocking stuff over, start getting angry at each other, and pull knives - pay; But I do think there is perhaps some value to be found in playing music for people who enjoy it, in a room in which you enjoy playing. If you and everyone else in the room is happy, that's a nice place to be. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 669 Registered: 2-2011 |
Dave, it sounds like you would enjoy playing retirement homes too, there is no smoking, no stairs, no drunks, no TV's, no knives, the restrooms are clean, & no one asks to play your instrument or set in with the band! I get paid in my regular band & would be very reluctant to play for free unless it was a worthy benefit or something, but it's nice to play for the senior citizens from time to time & give back to the community. | ||
| xlrogue6
Advanced Member Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 223 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm pretty flexible if the music is good and the musicians are people I enjoy working with. If someone is making money off the venue/event, then I want to get paid too. Also pretty insistent on shade in the summer. My prime directive these days, however, is the 3 Ls: I don't play Loud, I don't play Late, and I don't play Long. Got to protect my remaining hearing, nobody who comes to see any band I play with wants to stay out past 11PM or so, and 4 sets is just too much, unless there are big bucks involved, which there never are... | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 932 Registered: 9-2002 |
"I must be the exact opposite; if there isn’t any money, it is not worth doing. I think that when money is involved, the musicianship is often better and the gear usually is too. Not that there is very MUCH money, these days! Bands are like families, it just seems you have to put up with a lot to be in one no matter what. Hopefully you like the members and the toil enough so that when you get on stage, it is all worth it." the money thing is part (not all) of the bottom line for me anymore i think...Ive played all kinds of free gigs, retirement homes, farmers markets, street festivals, etc...they were fun, and it was good to get out and play, but after a certain point I just started asking myself why am i spending all this money in gas, giving up an entire day or evening, and schlepping my gear around for free. anymore my feelings are I just as soon get some awesome musicians together just rent studio space and have an awesome jam session, second to that is just be more selective in the places you play i.e. play at places whose primary purpose is to provide live music, and the people are there wanting to hear music, and hopefully dance to it, and where you will at least make money for gas. Hopefully the guys Im playing with now dont think im too much of a jerk for not wanting to do these "lower-tier" gigs.... Edit: Also agree with Daves criteria! (Message edited by glocke on July 30, 2012) | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 1129 Registered: 3-2004 |
I've never played a big venue, and I wouldn't say people are beating a path to my door to book us, but my opinion is that if the venue profits from our presence, they should reciprocate. If our band brings people to someone's bar, who wouldn't have gone otherwise, I don't see why they shouldn't give some modest compensation for my time. I've also played for assisted living communities for nothing more than the joy of an appreciative audience. I once played a large outdoor festival for free, because I liked the headliner, and I simply wanted the experience. Heck, I play every week in my basement for free. I guess it all comes down to the fact that I love to play, and I'm friends with the guys in my band. I have no love for hauling around my gear, but I'll never make as much money as I do in my day job (modest though it may be), and playing for a good crowd of people who like what you are doing is it's own reward. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1902 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'm simply not interested in doing ANY gigs any more. I don't have the patience for it any more. I don't drink. I don't do any drugs. I don't run around on my girl. My head's on reasonably straight, considering . . . so there's just no place for me, as with a cluster of personality problems like that, I just don't fit in ! I've beat my head against that wall for over 20 (almost 30) years, and as I look back, I just didn't near as much fun as I should have. I'm 57, and while I have the time, I'm developing new interests and moving on with my life. I'm very happy to very occasionally throw on an old CD and play along with something I like: I'd be surprised if that happens more than twice a month. The thought of having to walk back into a club and play 4 or 5 sets . . . . let's just say it would only happen at gunpoint, and it better be a LARGE caliber. Oh yeah, did I say I'm DONE ? J o e y PS To tell you the truth, I almost feel like a hypocrite being in this Club. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1925 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well I have played in clubs, pubs, festivals, shows etc, in show bands, jazz, funk, C&W, rock 'n' roll, blues, pop, free and paid and I enjoy it all. The only thing I hate is a lack of audience as I like the feedback from them. Being in band is like being married to four or five(or more) people..you either get on or not but I hope to continue playing live for many years to come | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 428 Registered: 8-2002 |
I love playing in front of an audience. I love to perform. I stopped doing so for close to 9 years and there was something terribly huge missing out of my life, something that defines me and my space while I'm on this planet. I have only started to get back into it. However I play and whoever my audience is I want to share my musical experience with them. I realise that there is a sh!tload of folks out there that cannot do what I can and it gives my the biggest rush. The practise the pre-gig nerves the setup the performance the whole box and dice. I feel alive and valuable. I can give to these people something that can only come from me..........that's pretty special. slawie | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1926 Registered: 11-2004 |
I agree slawie..it's a buzz that cannot be replaced | ||
| lbbc
Junior Username: lbbc Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2007 |
I stopped playing in bars 6 months ago and don't miss it one bit! My band of 12 years folded due to not playing as much...but if I can't get at least $100 per man per night...not worth it! I started playing with a group of friends and we are planning to be an events/wedding band...great pay, still get to play and great money. We are all, or nearly all, 50 yrs old have a wealth of experience and small but effective pro gear. | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 801 Registered: 5-2007 |
You guys are blessed to have people want to hear you play. VMG | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10832 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey; there is of course no qualification for being in this club other than an appreciation for Alembic instruments and the people that make them. And we are fortunate to have you here sharing your knowledge, experience, and good nature with us. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2581 Registered: 5-2009 |
I agree with Dave ! Joey ,____we are lucky that you are with us here. Your Alembic Setup advice is awesome as well ____!!!! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1903 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thanks Dave, and Thanks Wolf. It just feels funny admitting it in this company. BTW, this is one of my new interests, and it made me very happy . . . . while they lasted . . .  I'll never eat canned biscuits again. Free at Last, Free at Last . . . . . J o e y | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 997 Registered: 11-2003 |
Recipe, please? ;-) Alan | ||
| stout71
Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2011 |
I've been playing in cover and tribute bands for the last 10 years, with some sporadic original projects. Without a doubt, the original stuff (which I have done for the last 20 years), to me, is the most rewarding. It generally doesn't pay as well, but there are usually bigger crowds, as the venues are designed to showcase original music. I toured the southwest with some bands back in the late 90's/early 2000's and it was a total blast. These days, with a family, it's a lot harder to do those things, so my free time commands a premium. Gone are the days where I'll play a 3 hour gig + getting there and getting back with no help loading and unloading my gear for $100. Some of the higher paying gigs aren't much fun, but I can pretty much do my own thing and make it somewhat enjoyable. I played a $500 per man wedding gig a couple of months ago which was totally lame. A week later I played a $200 80's gig that was an hour long and we all wanted to keep playing because it was so much fun. I played a 5-night stint at Margaritaville in Key West in a Buffet tribute band in 2002. I think I made a grand that week and it was pretty fun, but if I hear Cheeseburger in Paradise one more time, my ears will bleed. I think there needs to be a balance of time, money and enjoyment and it's different for everyone. I don't need the money from gigs anymore, but my time is certainly more valuable than it used to be. | ||
| svlilioukalani
Member Username: svlilioukalani Post Number: 96 Registered: 6-2008 |
My philosophy is when I play music is always free. But, you have to pay me to show up on time in the right mental space to preform. These days I am only gigging at bars and parties. I live in Seattle. Nobody is paying that well.. We are over run with weak bands here. There is allot of competition for the good gigs. The venues don't have to pay well, because there is so much competition. Wish I was back in Columbia Missouri sometimes. Luckily my day job makes me enough money to support my bass habit. The day job free me as a musician. I'm not trying to make a living at this; so I can play the music that is true to my heart. Not like that cruse ship gig I had in the 80's. I do love it when I do get paid. But it does not matter. I practice daily anyway. Why not get out and gig. I travel light now; use the best light weight gear. My mates in my band are my best friends. What better way to spend an evening. It take many years for a local band to establish themselves to the point the can make money. Few bands can keep it together that long. Remember "you got to pay your dues." That goes for bands as well as individuals. Money will come in time if the music is all there. Which is why I rarely turn down a gig. I am even playing for the Seattle Police Dept next Tuesday night. Last year it took em 6 months to cut me a check for the same gig. And they will not fix parking tickets for us. Check out...... http://www.livefromdarylshouse.com/ This is the hippest thing in the music industry today. Totally organic. They all do this because they love it. He is not paying the band or the guests. That's what makes this completely unique in our business today | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3072 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm not interested in doing background music gigs anymore. Like at weddings and functions when people are eating or busy chatting. They do pay well compared to your average jazz, reggae or funk gig but they can be mindnumbingly boring. I did loads of them when I was in a calypso band. The music we played was great as it was a mixture of caribbean music and jazz but its not as much fun when you don't get any feedback from an audience. Jazzyvee | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 875 Registered: 4-2004 |
Gary~ Your philosophy on free play/paid setup is spot on! The gigs that always dissapoint me are the ones where I'm rushed prior to playing, or troubleshooting everyone else's gear. FYI Daryl's house was about 1.5 miles as a crow flys from where I grew up.... Watching the show I can't tell if it's the same place... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10835 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for the Daryl Hall link; that looks pretty interesting, and I plan to watch some of it soon. | ||
| gleech
Junior Username: gleech Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2011 |
Well put, Gary. Don't look threatening at the SPD gig. They tend to shoot first and question later. | ||
| gleech
Junior Username: gleech Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2011 |
In addendum, I played professionally from 1969 until 1979, toured the country supporting 2 albums and left to raise a family and get a 'real' job when the label dropped 200 acts, mine included. Something in me died at that time. Just absolutely love to play and couldn't get it together to do it until now. Work pretty much got in the way. I'd play anywhere where the music is enjoyed and the musicians are respected. I've been playing with my old high school band from 1965 doing the same set we did back then at benefits and class reunions. Once a year is not enough, though. I'll keep looking and someday I'll find the right combination of players. | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 933 Registered: 9-2002 |
"Well put, Gary. Don't look threatening at the SPD gig. They tend to shoot first and question later." Don't bring your dog either! | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 1130 Registered: 3-2004 |
"Wish I was back in Columbia Missouri sometimes." Well, I am in Columbia Missouri, and I can't help but laugh because I feel like we're in the same situation. There are a ton "up and coming" college students who are convinced that they're about to hit it big and go on tour. They're happy to play for next to nothing, and in a lot of venues people are too drunk or busy chasing the co-eds to care how they sound anyway. We're considering booking shows in Jefferson City and Lake of the Ozarks because they tend to pay better even if you do have to drive farther. | ||
| gleech
Junior Username: gleech Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2011 |
right on, Kevin. Living in the middle of everywhere it's a drive to get to anywhere. Lots of road time. I'd vote for the Lake, more tourists with disposable income. Too many rednecks and politicians in JC. Ha! | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 1131 Registered: 3-2004 |
Rednecks are an inevitable fact of life around here. Just toss them a Natural Light and keep moving and you'll be fine. I don't mind the drive too much, at least it's all interstate. | ||
| hammer
Intermediate Member Username: hammer Post Number: 192 Registered: 9-2009 |
I don't mean to hijack the thread but you must have a bigger vehicle than I did a few years ago when I needed to make numerous trips over a 6-month period ( I think it was just about every other week) from St. Louis to Columbia and Jefferson City for my real job. Because of University of Minnesota policies all I could rent was the cheapest car and I vividly remember getting blown from lane to lane as the big rigs towing two trailers behind them flew buy. I tried flying from St. Louis to Columbia but on several occasions all I was able to rent for a vehicle once I got there was a pick-up truck. On one trip I ended up taking several big wigs (very proper older women) from the Missouri State Department of Education out to dinner in the pick-up and it was all that was discussed that evening. A little more on track with the thread, it's now easier for me to articulate where I desire to play as opposed to those venues in which I'm not interested...any place where people come with the intention of really listening to the music. | ||
| mtjam
Junior Username: mtjam Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2011 |
Not very interested these days in low-paying gigs that last from 10-2 A.M.! Those are killers anymore. Definitely prefer gigs that start around 8 or 9. Afternoon is even better! | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 1132 Registered: 3-2004 |
Actually, I drive a 1991 Honda Civic hatchback. The back seats fold down, and I can get all my gear in without any trouble. I've owned it since 1996, and aside from a new radiator, alternator, and the usual maintenance stuff, it has been my faithful chariot all these years. For at least three years I spent two hours a day on I-70, but never had much trouble. I'm a bit surprised about the car rental stuff. We've got about ten car rental stores or dealerships who rent here in town. The airport is pretty backwoods though. Back on topic, our next gig is playing outside a music store. No drunks, no smoke, and the people who stop to listen always want to know about our gear and seem to care about the music. Not too bad. | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 985 Registered: 12-2004 |
smokin ass bassplayer sits in on open mike night and the band wants you (me)to play the entire set sweating & funky then the fuckers dont even buy me a beer or even smoke a joint wit a bro for my troubles.........then ask me what kinda bass was that? | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1932 Registered: 11-2004 |
Smoking is banned in public places in the UK(since 2007) and I welcomed it!. Some of my old leads in my spares box still smell of stale smoke so that is a bonus. Old guitar cases seem to want to hang onto nicotine no matter how much they are left open in the air | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3076 Registered: 6-2002 |
Cold places, they kind of make your fingers forget what you have spent years teaching them. jazzyvee | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2258 Registered: 10-2003 |
Keavin, I know exactly what you're talking about! I tend to not revisit those places if they won't at least show some appreciation! John | ||
| peoplechipper
Advanced Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2009 |
I love playing live and have rarely made money from it; at best it covers the bar bill and more...this is the lot of the beer leagues, unless you're a cover band...I am okay with this as I play heavy music and don't expect to make my living with it...my bandmates have families and such so touring is surely a losing proposition...I've done that in the past; fun but spending money to play for few folks is a bit deflating unless you know you can follow up on the word of mouth... Tony | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3083 Registered: 6-2002 |
Assuming you are not a full time pro, would you take a day off work unpaid to do a gig where you were not getting paid or would get significantly less than you would get from your day job ? Jazzyvee | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 674 Registered: 2-2011 |
I take vacation days to play all the time. I don't loose any money, as I get paid vacation, but I loose time off days for myself tht I could be enjoying with my family. I work shift work, so the only way I can play regularlay is to use vacation days, & I'm OK with that. I didn't play at all for 12 years after I started working shift work & honestly thought I would never play again, but now I'm loving playing more than I ever did before (Playing an Alembic now might have something to do with that!) so I want to play as much as I can & don't mind using vacation days to do it. Rusty | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2007 |
Agree that smoke stays in things. I don't use my JD bass these days but when I open the case it reminds me of the smoky dance halls. I never smoked but I kinda like the memories the smoky smell brings back - like well-paid gigs and plenty of them ! Glynn |
