| Author | Message | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 2422 Registered: 4-2004 |
Haven't posted in a long time. Hope all my buds are doing well! So I am downsizing back into an apt. I have 3 egg crates full of albums dating back to 1963. They've made every move i have. They haven't been out of their boxes in about 25 years give or take. Neither has my turntable. Along the way i ditched my cassettes, my reel to reels- even though i still have my tandberg which actually still works after 40 years!- So i find myself at this crossroads- ditch em- sell em ( i don't even know what their worth) or take em with me- i really don't have room for them. they'll end up in the back of some closet. maybe go through them and keep the "classics"? i know- They're all classics! The other hard part is finding a store here in Ct that buys em. So I am up for suggestions. The floor is yours-lol PS- I am up to my eyeballs in dead cd downloads also. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3272 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey Jeff, it's been a while. Hope you're well and getting back on your feet. My opinion - make some space for your turntabel and start listening to your Vinyl again. It's guaranteed to put a smile on your face. Graeme | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2010 |
+1. Listen and then decide. Otherwise, try and sell then. You may not get that much, but its better than nothing, and if they're in good shape then someone else can enjoy them. P.S.- PM me if you need to drop the Dead cd's. (Message edited by Sparechaynge on October 13, 2012) | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 254 Registered: 9-2009 |
If your records are in good shape, resurrect that turntable (replace the cartridge) and you'll be in for some sweet sounds. From what my son has told me vinyl, like tubed amps, is making a comeback. There is definitely something that is lost in digitizing music. I state "from what my son has told me" because I made the mistake of giving him my Thorens turntable and all of my records. On those rare times when IU get to listen to them again, I really regret turning them over to him. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2005 Registered: 11-2004 |
Get a turntable..there is no way on earth that I would get rid of my vinyl collection, there are some dogs amongst them and some classics but that's the beauty of a record collection..it gives a history of how your music taste has changed throughout the years. There is always space somewhere in a house(I bet there is always space for the wife's clothes!!) | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 2423 Registered: 4-2004 |
lol terry- not married anymore!.YES!!! i do have a turntable and where i am moving has concrete floors so no bouncing. my 16 yr old cousin flipped out when he saw my moms turntable after she passed. we gave it to him. spare- send me your email address ps- i own a WHITE cover anthem of the sun album and the original mix of xoxamoxoa. the album is beat to shit,but its the first of the three mixes, If i am not mistaken didn't Ron Wickersham produce that album? | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 2424 Registered: 4-2004 |
look at what i found http://www.soundstagedirect.com/grateful-dead-dicks-picks-vol-1-180-gram-vinyl-records.shtml http://brookvalerecords.com/the-grateful-dead-dicks-picks-vol-1-vol-2-now-available-on-vinyl/ | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1309 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hey, Jeff, nice to see you. I lost all my vinyl in a sewage back-up in '96; I'd kill to have them back! Hang on if you can. Neil Young spake thusly: Imagine you're in a warm shower with the water flowing over you; that's analog recording. Now imagine the streams of soothing water frozen into tiny pellets beating on you; that's digital recording. Peter | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5248 Registered: 7-2004 |
Music reproduction is an interesting study in the "advancement" of technology. Recorded music seems to keep getting more convenient, but sounding worse. Keep the vinyl. Good to hear from you Jeff. Bill, tgo | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 879 Registered: 6-2006 |
Keep. Don't forget to open up those double disc albums carefully - I had a pleasant surprise when I opened up one of mine. . . . there was a rather substantial amount of residual debris in there. :-D A local band recently had a release; both digital and vinyl. Side by side listening - hands down the vinyl is the warmest shower ever! | ||
| artswork99
Moderator Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1796 Registered: 7-2007 |
+1 for keep "there was a rather substantial amount of residual debris in there" LOL | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 2425 Registered: 4-2004 |
i was in bed bath and beyond today. i saw a phonograph that your ipod directly connects to for downloading my question is do you lose the album :sound: when digitizing? you do get to keep the snap crackle pop! Gee i've been on the straight and narrow for nearly three years. i doubt there is any debris in my collection. im also wondering how flat they are after all these years (Message edited by flaxattack on October 17, 2012) | ||
| tubeperson
Advanced Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 388 Registered: 5-2005 |
Flax, if you box up the LP's and mark them as your property, I can save them for you in my office (no charge). We have storage rooms we rent in the basement. Although I am really tempted to purchase them from you, I believe you will regret selling them. Just e-mail me as I am not in mu office this week. | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 888 Registered: 4-2004 |
Jeff, (another) email on the way..... | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5252 Registered: 7-2004 |
Flax: If you copy LPs onto an iPod, you are converting the analog signal to a digital mp3 signal. The mp3 format compresses the signal into such a small space by throwing out lots of the information. If you think of the information contained in a particular song track as "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20", when it is converted to the mp3 format on the iPod, it will read 1 4 7 10 13 16 19. It will not sound as good as the record, it won't even sound as good as a CD. But you will still be able to hear pops and scratches. The worse of both worlds! But it will work better in a car than trying to put your turntable in the passenger seat. lol Bill, tgo | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 943 Registered: 9-2002 |
Give 'em a listen...if they do anything for you keep them...if not, there are plenty of people that collect vinyl so you shouldnt have a problem getting rid of them...I have a friend that is always adding to his vinyl collection, he probably has over a thousand albums at this point... Except for a handful that have some cool artwork or photos, I got rid of most of mine long ago... CD's are next as soon as I finish getting everything onto harddisks..(with multiple backups of course) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2659 Registered: 5-2009 |
If you digitize your vinyl , instead of mp3 , use 24 Bit /96 KHz .wav file conversion and it will sound better then mp3. You can store them all on an external hard drive. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1163 Registered: 1-2005 |
I once received advice for selling CDs - if it's something that's easily replaceable, like an Aerosmith CD or something like that, then just sell it - you can always acquire another copy later. If it's something that's harder to find, then consider hanging onto it. Then, if you haven't listened to it in the past year, sell it unless you have some emotional tie to it. I used to have probably around 1000 lps, as did my father (who do you think I got the addiction from?) - after my folks died and I sold the house, I got rid of all of them except a few that I thought I wanted to hang on to - two boxes to be exact. It's been ten years and I really don't regret it - I have other mementos that have a lot more meaning for me and that are much easier to cart around! | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 78 Registered: 6-2010 |
On digitizing LPs: If you use a good turn table, like a Stanton, and Audacity, which is quick and painless, you will have awesome sound quality. Set Audacity up to record in 32-bit float/48 khz/24 bit. this is the max most ipods can handle, and sounds as good as the lp. I have many records stored in this form and it is totally worth it. It only takes a little longer than the run time of the album, and you can remove some of the really bad pops and stuff if needed. (Message edited by Sparechaynge on October 17, 2012) | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2009 |
Speaking of audio quality...what do the more sophisticated electronic wizards here know and think about Pono? I read about it recently in Neil Young's new book, but don't know enough about the technology to determine if it's really any different from music heard via WAV or FLAC. Young of course is touting it as the savior of the music industry. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2660 Registered: 5-2009 |
To serve as a reference source to compare to the regular CD discs that you purchase at the store have an audio resolution of 16 BITS /44.1 KHz. Pono claims it can do 24 BITS/192KHz. WAV and AIFF can vary and are usually an uncompressed format for hard storage and archive work. FLAC or free lossless audio codec cannot store floating point data. Although I have not had a chance to really check out PONO it's technical specs seem really promising for the ipod type of application over other older formats such as mp3. For Hard storage archive work I use mainly WAV and AIFF @ 24 BIT/96KHz. | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 82 Registered: 6-2010 |
I have read that things like Pono that have claims of extremely high quality are actually less pleasing to listen to, because they incorporate parts of the audio spectrum that are difficult to reproduce. The low lows and high highs are on the fringes of human hearing as it is, and don't translate as well to recorded music as well as the middle. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2661 Registered: 5-2009 |
Everything is relative ! If you improve your resolution and don't like what you hear then Improve your reproduction system and speakers or monitors. The sound or lack of good sound and unfaithful reproduction from many mp3's is what I find unacceptable . What are you listening through ? That is the question ! LOL ______ | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2662 Registered: 5-2009 |
Also in order to incorporate high audio resolution you need really good AD convertors that can handle it well . Cheap stuff might not fly that well! LOL ____ You can spend big money along the way . | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2663 Registered: 5-2009 |
All in all , A format such as PONO might be long past due because too many ears have been sold and made accustom to mediocre sound for too long now . Perhaps it really could turnout to be the savior of the music industry ! | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 83 Registered: 6-2010 |
From what I read the problem stems from the system itself. Here is the article: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Just $0.02 | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2982 Registered: 6-2002 |
I rather like my new 1 Watt all tube Blackstar guitar combo, especially after it's been running for about an hour, and the sound warms up. (To my ears, anyway.) It has an analog control that sweeps from a ringing Fender tone to a crunchy Marshall drone, and the only real downside is the digital reverb. And, I should add, the 8" speaker is a bit boxy sounding, but it's excellent for home use. To return to the subject, I just finished reading the article that sparechaynge linked to and it sounds like the voice of reason. In the early days of the CD player, Sony thought that co-inventor Philips had it all wrong, and they pushed the use of analog filters for anti-aliasing. Not only did the analogue filters make the CD player run hot, the output sounded dull by comparison. You can't please everyone all of the time, but you can certainly try not to. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2664 Registered: 5-2009 |
Interesting article. The fact is that 24/192 audio resolution has been used in major recording studios for a while now on the professional side of the industry. It's time for the consumer to reap the benefits . There will always be opponents with credible sounding arguments swaying consumers from progress as is the case with the oil and tobacco industry. There are conflicting agendas for various reasons. Perhaps if PONO does not make it another high resolution consumer format will . DVD audio already has 24/192 ! DVD audio link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio PRO TOOLS HD link: http://www.avid.com/US/products/HD-IO | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 262 Registered: 9-2009 |
One of my biggest questions is whether people (specifically younger ones) will actually be willing shell out the additional $$$$ for the Pono format. If one grew up listening to Mp3 music and never experienced hearing good vinyl (yes some vinyl was a LOT better than others) through a great audio system do they even know what they are missing? On the other hand, there are those of us from earlier generations who have lost the ability to appreciate a lot of lows and highs either because of the normal degradation of hearing that comes with age or the unwillingness to "turn it down" when we were younger. | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 84 Registered: 6-2010 |
I can't speak for your second point Hammer, but I can say that as a person with a ways to go before I see 30, it seems that my peers are quick to choose convenience over quality. Mp3's are the format of choice everyone I see regularly, and they see the promise of quality as a limitation on how many songs they can fit on an ipod (or whatever). The way I see/hear it, (and I speak for no one but myself) I embrace quality as long as I can tell the difference between formats. I don't like AAC or Mp3, and so avoid using them. My home setup is OK-sounding, and having experienced a superior system I can say there's a lot to be gained with a little extra cash. However, I don't know how many people will be able to appreciate the quality that a service like Pono offers. Why not continue to offer it to the enlightened public and let everyone else go their own way? | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 2426 Registered: 4-2004 |
i always envisioned doing a wall in nothing but album covers. but you have to own to do that! lol its all too technical for me. i'll report back after i set up my unit, see if the turntable works and then wonder why i went to so many loud concerts that i cant tell the difference anymore. | ||
| sparechaynge
Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2010 |
Ah yes the album wall, a dream of mine as well. Command hooks work really well for non-permanent fixtures like that. The frames can get expensive though. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1401 Registered: 12-2004 |
24/192 is not actually a benefit: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Bradley | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1339 Registered: 5-2002 |
This is the most pertinent part of the article for me (although it all seems to be right on target): "An engineer also requires more than 16 bits during mixing and mastering. Modern work flows may involve literally thousands of effects and operations. The quantization noise and noise floor of a 16 bit sample may be undetectable during playback, but multiplying that noise by a few thousand times eventually becomes noticeable. 24 bits keeps the accumulated noise at a very low level. Once the music is ready to distribute, there's no reason to keep more than 16 bits." The only reason to use high sampling rates and 24 bit reproduction is when the files are going to undergo more math. Then, the higher resolution, the better the result is due to less rounding and truncation (good dither is a whole other ball of wax). I absolutely notice this when I'm doing my location recording gig. However, good quality conversion and mic pres make a bigger difference than the numbers and even more important are good microphones and good mic'ing technique. Even more important than that are a good band with good instruments playing in a good room with good songs and good arrangements. When I am frustrated with a listening experience, very rarely do I blame that on someone not using the right recording sampling rate or bit depth (crappy mp3 conversion is a different story). I would even argue that with rock music, there isn't much reason to go past 44.1khz at the multitrack stage if the converters are good. The Nyquist theorem is really a fact of life and the amount to be gained by going higher will usually be lost in the noise of background amp hiss or other ambient noise. For some music where maintaining as much sense of the space in which the music was recorded is paramount, then I can see using a higher sampling rate. At the end of the day, CD resolution should not be a limiting factor. Side note: If anyone has Bob Katz' book Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science, which I highly recommend, the section on dither is mind-blowing! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2676 Registered: 5-2009 |
I have read Bob Katz' book. I also recommend it .Again , Everything is relative, If you are doing sessions with a high track count of 24 or more tracks a higher resolution of 24/96 and better will make all the difference in the mastering stage of the recording process. If you are ending up dithered down with a standard RED BOOK CD @ 16/44.1 , I would even recommend 24/96 on the individual tracks and use good mics - the correct mics for the application with good mic technique of course. Convertors must not be trash , Edwin is correct ! Everything is relative ! If you are doing sound for picture(movies , the motion picture industry) then higher resolution is ON order . |
