| Author | Message | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 121 Registered: 11-2011 |
I just picked up a 75 Series 1 Short Scale Bass and when I get any new (Or should I say new to me) Bass. I clean it, oil the fret board, check the neck, look over the electronics and put new strings on it. I have forever used Nickel round wounds 45-100’s. So there is a consistency on what I expect to hear. My Distillate and Persuader both acted as expected and with normal break in I pretty much got the sound I needed relatively quickly. These Series seem to be cut from a different cloth. Although I really enjoy the sounds coming out of her, I just couldn’t get the low end needed for what I do. This Bass is so clear that whatever it sounds like unplugged is what comes out of the amp. I kept trying to get the sound I wanted hoping when the strings finally break in I could work with it. Not so much. So I put the strings that came with it back on, what looks like D’Addario Flats and instant low end without losing enough highs and harmonics. The Bass seemed to be able to dial up these Highs better than boosting the lows with the round wounds? I guess this is a long winded way of asking the Bass playing Elite their experiences on this and if Flats are the way to go maybe a few recommendations? Thank You New to Series world Pete | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 905 Registered: 4-2004 |
Yeah Pete, flats are the way to go..... Somewhere in the archives you'll find a thread where Mica credits her father designing the series circuit with flatwounds as the benchmark A couple years ago Mica mentioned that they were testing strings from several manufactures and the results weren't too impressive at the time. I don't think the results of their in house 'shootout' were ever divulged. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1827 Registered: 2-2005 |
I hate to disagree with Mike but rounds are the way to go. I use the hard to find these days Alembic CX3's. What it boils down to is you are going to have to find what works for you and what you play. One thing I have found is I need to EQ my preamp differently for my Series and non-Series fretted basses. I think in part it has to do with the differences in wood. I've found with the Series I have to back off on the lows a bit and increase the highs slightly. My other basses need a bit more in the low mid-range and seem to have more high end. For some reason my fretless seems to sound good at either EQ with just a tweak here or there on the basses' tone controls. Keith | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2044 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well going back to 1998 when I got my MK I too noticed the lack of low end(as compared to my Alembic powered P bass). I never have liked flatwounds but the way around it was to use my Zoom pedal to dial in extra bass without adjusting the amp, especially when playing live. I had the early Zoom 506 but now have the latest bass version which has a huge choice of low tones but in the end it what suits you and your playing style. | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2007 |
Just a thought - how about approaching the problem from the amplifier end. I have an Alembic Orion 4 which I love. When I had MarkBass amplification, I had to boost the bass on the guitar considerably to get a sound which I was never quite happy with. I sold the MarkBass gear and now have a GenzBenz Streamliner 900 and two Bergantino HD112 cabs. I can now run the Orion without any bass boost on the guitar and get my best sound ever. Also I have gone back to Ceramic not Neo drivers so that may influence and the Streamliner has 3 valves. I have never had any other Alembic so can't really compare but it might be worth a try. I have always used Elites Stainless Roundwounds at 40 to 100. Is the gauge on your bottom string heavy enough? Glynn | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 3003 Registered: 6-2002 |
On my Spoiler, when I went from regular DR Hi Beams to the Marcus Miller signature set, Fat Beams, there was a noticeable increase in the lower frequencies. Now I dial in not nearly half as much bass boost on the amp. Going to a 45-105 set might help too. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1380 Registered: 5-2002 |
I really like the flat wound sound on my Series I shorty, but it's not the only way to go. Back in the day, when I had a long scale Series I, I had a problem getting decent low end out of it with rounds, but then I tried some DR Sunbeams. Holy moly! The low end was amazing. They also sound great on the shorty. So, I think it depends a lot on the string. Series basses are a different animal, so it does take some experimentation to get to what might be a previous comfort zone. However, if you start without trying to match previous conceptions, you might find yourself going to some new places only the Series basses go. | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2011 |
Edwin, your right in that the Series sounds like no other and just experimenting with her I am finding myself in new places. This was my intensions in the first place, and even though I do feel that my previous conceptions will have to be rethought out I do need to get to a starting point for the sound that is expected of me and the rest will expand from there. I might try the Sunbeams Thanks for the input. I play through a Mesa Walkabout 12 and I did mess around with the settings some and it still wasn’t right. I feel this shouldn’t be necessary using these Basses. I’m all flat on the amp settings on my other Basses and use the settings on the Bass for all my needs. I’m most comfortable with the 45-100 strings but I can see why the fatter strings might help. I was blown away on the complete change in sound from the 2 types of strings. The DiAddario 170s round wounds just sounded hollow and no matter what I did they just fell short. I guess its back to the drawing board ~Pete | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1381 Registered: 5-2002 |
I hear you, it's an interesting situation. I also use lighter strings, 40-100, so I don't think the gauge affects the ability to get a deep tone and I do think that the stiffer the string, the less true the harmonics. | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Senior Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 485 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hey Pete! I still have the S1 1180 that Edwin sold me. I also have a SII shorty. The builds are different, but I have done some experimenting with the round and flat strings on both recently. First I will say that all the strings sounded good on the shorty. But by far, the best sounding string set was the purple wound Tomastik 43-100. the best rounds set was the high beams DR 40-100. The longer S1 liked the GHS flats. The lighter E string made the bass sing. The low end wasn't perfect but I made up for it by tweaking my amp. I think the lighter string resonated better with the purpleheart. I also believe the Tomastiks were better suited to the walnut in my neck. There is benefit to having dark strings with bright woods and vise' versa. Going dark/dark with strings and wood, I can only pull it off with SII electronics. But it is very powerful. I can come sooooo close to sounding like an upright, it's hard to tell the difference. I guess what I am trying to say is if you have a maple bass w/ maple purpleheart neck, you might need a string designed for more bass. I am stoked to hear you setting up your amp neutral. It is the way I figured out the SI controls. I still keep my amp set that way now. I love hearing the Alembic tone and attack. That's why I can't play anything else. I do hope my Hyak will sound more 'Alembic' after I get it back, but it probably won't. Only an Alembic sounds like that! | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 124 Registered: 11-2011 |
Man I Love all this Info! Nick, There is no doubt the Basses build is coming into play. The Neck is Maple Walnut (Bright/mellow) and the sandwich is Koa/Maple/Zebrawood (Again bright/mellow/neutral?) Short scale Series 1. I'm not even sure how this Bass would be described to look into Dark / bright string pairing with the Bass. At present the D’Addario flats are close but I’m not convinced. There are a lot of good suggestions I wish the strings were a little cheaper for the learning curve. ~Pete | ||
| willgunn
Member Username: willgunn Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2007 |
During the '70's (and for maybe a bit longer, but I'm not sure), Alembic basses (all of them being "Series"-type instruments during that era too) shipped out with Pyramid "Gold" flatwound strings installed - just to give some idea as to what Ron and the rest of the crew considered the "ideal" string at the time. During the 6 years I had "AC 76 405" in my possession, that's all I used on it, and there was no shortage of low-end response - or highs, for that matter....they were the brightest sounding flats I've yet to encounter! | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1828 Registered: 2-2005 |
Pete, With what I assume is a maple core and the maple in the neck I would think your instrument would be on the bright side. The other woods would temper that some but the maple will dominate. I don't know how old the Chromes are that you have on the bass but I found that they took several weeks to break in and mellow out on my fretless. At first they were just too bright and kind of tinny. I have not changed them since I received the bass and like the tone they have developed. Keith | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2012 |
Keith - D'Addario Chromes, correct? Question - How do they compare to Pyramid Golds, Tomastik Jazz Flats or Alembic CX eliptical wound? I've been thinking about changing to flats from the standard Alembic CX style. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1829 Registered: 2-2005 |
David, I can't say as I've not tried the others on the fretless. I started with the Chromes and was happy so didn't try anything else. On my fretted small standard body 4 string basses I use Alembic CX strings and am happy. On my 5 string Orion I've tried Alembic CX and GHS Brite Flats and have settled into Dean Markley NPS Roundcore. Keith | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2011 |
Keith, That's correct my Bass has a Maple core, Koa top and Zebrawood back. The neck is Maple with Walnut Laminates. So if I’m reading this correctly the Maple is the dominate player making her a bright gal. My other Alembics have Coco Bolo tops with Mahogany bodies. The necks are 1 all Maple the other Maple Purple heart laminates. So there is a substantial difference among many others for comparison purposes. All these Basses sound so different from each other even when not going through an amp. There’s no telling how old the Chromes are, they came with the Bass. I just ordered a new set of Chromes so I can have at least a known relatively inexpensive starting point. She’s slowly starting to reveal her secrets, and for now at least I’m heading in the right direction. ~Pete | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Senior Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 486 Registered: 7-2009 |
Pete, your bass and mine AC 76-405 are very close.they were made within mere months of each other. The only difference being your top is Koa and mine is Zebra. Not that different in wood density. Yours being closer to walnut and mine to maple.It's interesting Will and I both found the flat's to be the right string for that bass. Thanks by the way, Will, for ordering such an awesome bass for me 35+ yrs ago. Every day I am excited to play your first Alembic. Anyway, Pete, I am sure you will figure it out cause you got the disease. Alembimania. Snap! That should be a wiki definition. Nick | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2735 Registered: 5-2009 |
HI Nick ! Yes Alembimania ! I love it too ___ Perhaps a catalyst for the closest known cure is to have two Series Bass's ; one strung with flats and another strung with round wounds ! Perhaps this could be the answer to the thread topic? Wolf | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 553 Registered: 9-2004 |
Interesting stuff. I find my series short scale has plenty of low end with round wounds and I personally hate the feel of flat wounds. I kind of agree with the changing the amp theory. I played a fri/sat outdoor gig this summer using my Fender Deluxe Precision fri and the alembic short scale the next through another bass players great big rig (we were the opening band) and felt that the Fender was too rumbly on the first night and that the series was perfect on the second, with no flub at all. Another theory I have has to do with the fact that as soon I get a new instrument I subconsciously immediately try to make it sound like the one I was just used to playing. I have done this a lot without realizing it and it takes me a while to really appreciate the unique character of the instrument I just acquired. I wonder if anyone else does this too? Enjoy your bass; some pictures on this thread would be cool! Dave | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 1125 Registered: 6-2002 |
~Pete I owned a bass very similar to yours. It had a zebra top, maple core, and walnut back. It was also a 1975 short scale. That bass had more low end then my other Alembics! Right now I am using another 1975 short scale Alembic with a zebra top and back and a koa core. It too is very punchy with a tight bottom end. Both of these basses have the same neck woods as yours. As far as the Chromes and Thomastic comparison, I find they are night and day different. The Chromes are stainless steel and the TI's are nickel. To my ears the Chromes sound more mid scooped compared to the TI's. Also I find the TI's much louder in output and sit better in a band situation since the mids are more pronounced. Try splitting a set of strings by using a couple from the Chromes set, and 2 strings from the TI set. It will make up your mind which are better suited to the series bass. To me the TI's win. The Chromes are great but to me work best with a passive instrument. Also I find that the Chromes last a lot longer and actually sound better as they age. The TI's also last long but lose their zing as they get older. I have not tried Pyramids since the 70's. Michael | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 126 Registered: 11-2011 |
Alembimania!! That¡¦s it, I knew I was driving under the influence! Wolf if I buy another one at least now I might go bankrupt. David, there is wisdom in what you say in regards to trying to make the Basses sound the same. When I had the round wounds on my Series I found some Beautiful tones coming out of her. My concern wasn¡¦t so much duplicating all the tonal nuisances but to at least have enough low end fundamentals to branch out from there. The rounds in this case couldn¡¦t give me a starting point to work with. Nick, my Bass is #75-215 they are Beautiful aren¡¦t they ƒº ~Pete  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2736 Registered: 5-2009 |
Pete, A fine family of friends ! | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 555 Registered: 9-2004 |
That is one pretty Series bass!!! | ||
| flpete1uw
Intermediate Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2011 |
Well Alright!! I Am now officially stoked! After finally getting the chance to install a new set of D’Addario Chromes ECB81M strings on my Series. I now can get the starting sounds that are expected from me for my gigs and so much more! I can’t wait to introduce Her to the Gang. Some learning points are 1 – on a Short Scale Alembic you need to use Medium length scale strings And 2- at least for now the “Bright Flat strings” seems to work best on my Bass. It’s hard to put to words how much I value all the input found here at the Club. Except in saying Thank You all, ~Pete |
