| Author | Message | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1369 Registered: 10-2006 |
On this date in 1965, Columbia Broadcasting System purchased Fender Musical Instruments. Almost as sad as the day AMF bought Harley-Davidson. Peter | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5306 Registered: 7-2004 |
And, stupid me thought only pre-CBS fenders would ever be worth anything. When I think of all the late 60's and early 70's Strats and Teles I could have had for a song - and their value today!!!!!!!!! Oh well, whoda thunkit? Bill, tgo | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1370 Registered: 10-2006 |
No, Bill, not their value today - their price. Crap is crap no matter how much fools pay. Peter | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1001 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Peter, I think that "Crap" is a relative term for Fenders. Old Fenders are ALWAYS a hit or miss situation. There were never two that were the same, that is, they had horrible quality control. When you found a good one though, it was a real gem. I have a thing for late 60s and early 70s Jazz Basses. Some play well and look good, others just look good and play/sound like Crap. I guess we can call them a "Crap Shoot"!  Rami | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5308 Registered: 7-2004 |
The 70's Strats with the three bolt neck were crap. Dig in hard and you're out of tune. But Peter, you hit the nail on the head: value v. price. Bill, tgo | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1371 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've always heard that, Rami, but I've got to say, I've played dozens of Strats, Teles, Mustangs, Jaguars & Electric XIIs from '59-'66 and every one of them was wonderful. Now, I also played what, if you could trust Fender serial numbers, should be the last Nocaster & 2nd Tele or 2nd-to-last Nocaster & 1st Tele, and thought they were awful - but I hate v-shaped necks & maple fretboards, so that may have been it. But as to QC, well, they weren't using CNC. And that's a big 10-4 on the 3-bolts, Bill. Peter | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1003 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think that the best Fenders are actually what they make today. Graphite re-enforced necks, string through body bridges, tighter neck joints, better pickups and so on. They sound and play great. I can't say enough about how impressed I am by how far Fender has come in their quality. In my opinion, even the best vintage Fenders don't compare. Their appeal is mostly nostalgic (in my opinion). (Message edited by rami on January 05, 2013) | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1372 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes, they've improved greatly from the '70s; what turns me off on the new ones is best captured by one of their product descriptions: "Classic tone and feel, updated with 10" radius, medium-jumbo frets, and new electronics". In otherwords, missing the 7½" radius, small frets, and unique tone that make me love them. Fine, use their current techniques - but the only design improvements you could make to a '63 Strat are an accessible trussrod, shielding, and star grounding. And don't point me at the Time Machine series; they do not feel like the originals. I'd love a new Fender, but it would have to be a Master Built - and I'd still probably miss the '66 Tele I learned on. Peter (who you'd never know from this thread actually prefers Gibsons most of the time) (Except for bass; there's this new company that makes these amazing instruments.........) | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 109 Registered: 4-2009 |
No doubt the early stuff was a crap shoot, but I will second that when you got a good one, it was amazing. Nobody was more skeptical about this than me, until I bought the '66 Jazz I currently own several years ago. I would not trade it for any new Fender, or anything else for that matter. I consider myself one of the fortunate ones. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5309 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've yet to play a new Strat that compares favorably with my '61 slab board. Admittedly, I swapped out those tiny little Fender frets for some larger ones 35 years ago. In the early years I also added a brass nut and bridge saddles, strat-o-blaster, Stars Guitars Startone EQ, Seymour Duncan bridge pick up, and shielding paint (trying for Alembic-type instrument). Later, I swapped everything back to stock, except the frets and shielding paint. On the other hand, I have a 50th Anniversary Tele (1996 - 1250 made) that is a great guitar and has one of the few maple fingerboards I like. Bill, tgo | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1004 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's really cool Will. I always wanted a '66. Mostly, they're way out of reach as far as cost (around 10K). 1966 was a transition year for the Jazz Bass: Fingerboard binding with dots and later that year transitioned to block inlays as well as the oval tuners ('66 to '69). I have a '68 which I really love. I actually found it just before the market went nuts. I paid 3K for it. It's all original with the case and accessories / tags. Near Mint.     It does play and sound great, but not as full or powerful sounding as a newer American Standard. I really do notice the benefits of the modern design and features. That can't be denied. (Message edited by rami on January 05, 2013) | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2009 |
rami, That's a really great example! You can find a really nice '66 now at just north of $6K lately. The vintage market is getting a bit soft (again) though things won't get silly cheap ever. I bought mine at the peak a few years ago, but I was at least able to compare it to 4 other 60's vintage basses, 2 older 2 newer. This was the one, hands down. If there's another player at a gig I always get a compliment on the sound - first question is usually, "Is it a real one?" When I say yes, they typically say, don't ever sell it. I got it from a friend that's a dealer who bought it from the original owner. He obviously played it ALOT, but he had a body guard on it and the back is nealy pristine. It is all straight and absolutely sings. I have 4 other Jazz basses in various states on modern-ness and although they are each wonderful in their own way, they just can't touch this one for what it brings.   | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1005 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nice example too! The version of the'66 that I'd like to find would be the earlier one with the dot inlays. Those are SUPER rare (and no doubt SUPER expensive). | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2009 |
Not as rare as you'd think and not that rich unless it's a custom color, and a rare one at that. Here's decent one for $6K. Not collector quality, but can be brought into player grade for just a bit more. http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-1966-fender-jazz-bass-sunburst | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1006 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks for the Link Will. That's the exact version of the '66 that I like. And it looks like the vintage market has softened a bit. That's definitely one to consider. | ||
| that_sustain
Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2012 |
Fender basses have always felt very nice. I just can't get past the 3 to 5 pieces of wood they bundle together for a body. Then they sometimes charge more for a special nitro laquer paint job. It's just paint! lol All these features Fender charges extra for that have nothing to do with tone, or even music. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1374 Registered: 10-2006 |
CME has a '66 body with a '63 neck - they want $11.5K. Probably charging more for the chips in the paint (Why not? Fender does.) Peter | ||
| peoplechipper
Advanced Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2009 |
Pay more for Nitro, it sounds way better than poly...unless the poly is put on really thin, which is rarely...I've had a couple of Fenders and own one now; I find that the bolt neck gives uneven tone from string to string, the E is often dead, but if you can work around that then you can be OK...but the market has gotten stupid for '70's fenders; 10 years ago they were crap, and they still are but they sell for three or four times as much...Tony | ||
| that_sustain
Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 90 Registered: 8-2012 |
I guess for $11.5K you're either super serious about tone..or you're a collector. I'd have to buy a Small Standard Series II with that much to spare. I was a bit harsh yesterday in this thread. Fender is imo the best of the assembly line instrument companies. They have the passive pickup thing nailed, too. The Fender Forum is full of super nice folks. | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 258 Registered: 12-2004 |
Beautiful Jazz basses guys! I have a '75 lefty Jazz bass that is great, I know I got lucky, as it is a 3 bolt but the neck pocket is solid and has never moved. The best part of my bass is the near one piece flame swamp ash body. Yup, a mid 70's Fender with the most beautiful (almost) one piece body (the second body piece is 1" by the controls), very light weight because of the swamp ash. It sounds and feels terrific. I also have a '74 P bass that is excellent, no issues, plays fantastic. I guess I got lucky on my mid 70's Fenders. I agree with Rami, it is hit or miss on any old Fender, they are assembly line products and not always consistent. Age does not mean quality...but when you find a good one, grab it! | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 259 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rami, your 68 Jazz is unbelievable! It looks brand new, the only thing missing are the hang tags. You really got a great deal on that one. I'm glad it landed in a good home. Feel free to post more pictures of your other Fenders. Bassilisk, your is fantastic too. Classic Fender mojo with the wear on the front and the bare neck. I bet that neck is as smooth as silk. I have the tailpiece cover on mine too but not the pickup cover, it gets in the way. I love the look of the big cover with the "F" on it and it makes a nice hand rest. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1008 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey thanks for the nice words! It's a dangerous thing to ask me to post pictures of my Basses as that'll open the flood gates! Here are some of my favorites:  '74  '78 Antigua Fretless P-Bass  '81 Gold Jazz Bazz  '72 Fretless Sunburst P-Bass  '72 Jazz Natural  '76 Fretless Natural P-Bass And I could go on and on!!! (Message edited by rami on January 07, 2013) | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1377 Registered: 10-2006 |
C'mon, Rami - group shot! (Is it possible?) Peter | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1009 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'd need one HELLUVA wide angle lens and a truckload of guitar stands! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1194 Registered: 1-2005 |
DANG! I see why the Fender Japan stuff doesn't appeal to you - you've got some amazing basses! Love that antigua fretless. And the '76 natural fretless! And the '68 Jazz, and the... | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1010 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks Harry! One of my all time favorites (I'll post a picture soon) is a BEAUTIFUL super rare '78 Sienna Sunburst Jazz Bass with a Maple Fingerboard with Pearl blocks. Totally ridiculous! Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread with my collection (especially one called "A Dark Day in History"). (Message edited by rami on January 07, 2013) | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 112 Registered: 4-2009 |
Nice accumulation rami! Clearly you've been at it for a while and had a chance to pick out some fine examples. Keep in mind that in the 60's there were no CNC machines. Even though Fender's were "mass produced assembly line" instruments they were much more labor intensive and hand's on than they are now. Sure there were crappy ones, but I feel their QC was actually pretty good overall. With all the current advancements in machining, assembly and bass technology as a whole it is still not that uncommon to get a brand new bass with a dead spot right in the middle of the neck, or some other flaw. You would think things like this are a thing of the past. Just for the record, I had a custom build '99 Rogue that was a dream in every respect - except for a dead spot right where I couldn't live with it or play around it. I hated to do it, but I had to sell it. Even an Alembic is not always manna from heaven. The one factor that is impossible to control in spite of everything else is the wood itself, and you'll never know what you'll have until it's actually done. peoplechipper said: I've had a couple of Fenders and own one now; I find that the bolt neck gives uneven tone from string to string, the E is often dead, but if you can work around that then you can be OK... Case in point - that sounds like one you should have passed on. These symptoms are not indicative of bolt-on's as a whole. Sell it and get a good one. | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2012 |
I thinks its bad karma to pass a known flawed instrument on to someone else. Shred it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5K_Kp50QvM | ||
| peoplechipper
Advanced Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 323 Registered: 2-2009 |
Wow, that shredder would be too much fun! but how long untill you use it to solve ALL your problems? My current Fender is a Squier '51 precision tribute, or whatever they call that single coil bass with the Tele headstock, which is actually not a bad instrument...Fender must have implemented a meal program at the labour camp or something...anyway, it's more even than some Fenders I've played, but the A is brighter and louder than the E; I just find myself hitting the E a little harder to compensate...I'm getting it refinished in nitro (my bandmate owes me and he paints guitars) and I'm curious to hear the likely improvement...Tony | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1951 Registered: 9-2002 |
Wow, Rami, what memories. I remember those maple/fretless Precisions, but I REALLLY love those gold Jazz Basses. #1 on my list when I get around to my Warmoth phase, w/white EMG's. Nice axes ! J o e y | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2009 |
peoplechipper - This explains a lot. You have what is basically a budget instrument. Sure you can find a good one (there are a lot of players that swear by their Squier, particularly the early ones from Japan) but realistically it is what is is. I would be very surprised if refinishing it has any effect at all. Good luck! | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 909 Registered: 4-2004 |
Good thread, "hijacks" and all... keep 'em coming!!!! Not for anything, but I am partial to my post-CBS '67 bandmaster, 3-bolt '72 Tele Custom and '76 hardtail Strat. They are a handful of "tools" I come back to time and time again. I've had several other pre/post CBS Fender items, and oddly enough, these are the three that I cant let go of! | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 260 Registered: 12-2004 |
Wow Rami, I remember you posting a few pictures over the years but it is always a pleasure to see your collection. A fretless Antigua, that is a rare bird. I can't beleive you have so many fretless P's, and your Jazzes are amazing. What a great Fender collection. I only have 2 Fenders, a '75 Jazz & '74 P. As I mentioned earlier, the Jazz is very light due for a 70's Fender. I will try to post a few pictures. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1012 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey thanks! I'd love to see your basses as well. I also have an Antigua Jazz Bass. It's been well loved and played.  | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 1066 Registered: 4-2005 |
AMF probably kept Harley from going bankrupt. I have a 1979 1/2 Lowrider (aka the 80/80) I've had for 20 years and I would not part with 'er. ----------- I'm a big fan and player/collector of Tacoma acoustic guitars. Fender bought this Tacoma, Wash., based company to shut it down. If you see a Tacoma languishing in a pawn shop for cheap, pick it up. --- | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1013 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here's one of my all time favorites: 78 Sienna Sunburst Jazz. 3 bolt neck and all! It weighs a ton!!! But it sounds as full and powerful, bright, punchy and H-E-A-V-Y as it looks. Check out that beautiful Ash wood grain.   | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1378 Registered: 10-2006 |
If you really want the full set, Rami, CME also has a '71 Antigua Coronado bass; under $3K. Peter | ||
| tncaveman
Intermediate Member Username: tncaveman Post Number: 151 Registered: 2-2011 |
WOW - I knew that a lot of fakery went on in the guitar business - for example trashed "relic" new guitars (can't stand them), faked old guitars, but this takes the cake. I was wasting time cruising the guitars on the local Craigslist and saw this beauty (yes, I did a Fender Japan search) http://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/3494174830.html And I thought "wow, check out that wood!" Then I did a little research and shazam!! (remember Gomer) - ITS FAKE FLAME MAPLE!!!! WTH!!! I guess it's kind of like a "wood grained" piece of furniture these days. Here's a nice site showing off a bunch of Foto Flame Fenders from Japan. http://xhefriguitars.com/page7.html The Flamed maple is actual a piece of photographic film laminated on the top of the guitar. This is then clear-coated, and you have an instant classic. Even the flame maple on the neck is faked! Buyer beware. Stephen (Message edited by TNcaveman on January 09, 2013) | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1196 Registered: 1-2005 |
Ah yes, the famous "Foto Flame" and "Hamburglar"! | ||
| that_sustain
Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2012 |
The Fotoflames were made with American wood if I remember right. I think they came with the chrome tuners, though. I kinda like nickel on Fender basses. Fender Japan does a better job with neck and pickup routings, imo. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2050 Registered: 11-2004 |
Japan seems to do everything better once they get to know how to do it, they decimated the british motorcycle industry in the 70's, the TV and hi fi market for general users, their guitars and amps were laughed at(as with everything else) but those Ibanez, Tokai and Squiers were so well made and the Roland Jazz Chorus is an absolute beaut of an amp! | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 261 Registered: 12-2004 |
All: What program do you use to shrink jpeg photos? My photos are from my cell phone at 2M and this site cannot exceed 116K. I appreciate the help. Thanks | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1014 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi, I set my camera at 1024 by 768 low res. | ||
| bob2
Junior Username: bob2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2009 |
irfanview is a free software, windows, i don't know if they have it for mac. you can size up or down by percentage. | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2009 |
"Ah yes, the famous "Foto Flame" and "Hamburglar"!" Ha! He achieved his own notoriety in Fender circles. An icon of the age!!   Mass production at its finest. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1197 Registered: 1-2005 |
I know that mine barely competes with Rami's choice collection, but I have a soft-spot for my early-'70s Telecaster Bass, especially since it's been outfitted with Alembic Activators, transforming it into the Telembic - this is actually the only Fender USA bass that I own - the other 4 (well 5 if you count the Strat) are all Fender Japan... | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1198 Registered: 1-2005 |
I know that mine barely competes with Rami's choice collection, but I have a soft-spot for my early-'70s Telecaster Bass, especially since it's been outfitted with Alembic Activators, transforming it into the Telembic - this is actually the only Fender USA bass that I own - the other 4 (well 5 if you count the Strat) are all Fender Japan (including, of course, the Alfembic!) | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1199 Registered: 1-2005 |
I know that mine barely competes with Rami's choice collection, but I have a soft-spot for my early-'70s Telecaster Bass, especially since it's been outfitted with Alembic Activators, transforming it into the Telembic - this is actually the only Fender USA bass that I own - the other 4 (well 5 if you count the Strat) are all Fender Japan (including, of course, the Alfembic!)  | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 1015 Registered: 6-2002 |
I really love those black blocks! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1201 Registered: 1-2005 |
Thanks - me too! I've been playing the Duck Dunn Sig more, but I really love the white one! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1202 Registered: 1-2005 |
P.S. rami - could you shoot me an email? It's in my profile. | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 262 Registered: 12-2004 |
My Fenders... 75 Jazz & 74 P  | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 263 Registered: 12-2004 |
Here are 2 pictures of the swamp ash flame on my Jazz bass. Of course the flaming is weak by Alembic standards but pretty cool on a mid 70's Fender.   | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 115 Registered: 4-2009 |
My other Fenders: '76 Precision - this is the lightest bass I own.  My '70 Tele bought new and just a few months mine, and its current incarnation- neck, tuners and covers on a Warmoth swamp ash body.   A FrankenGeddy I put together (neck & body MIJ)  | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 264 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bob2, thanks for irfanview, easy to use and it worked great! Bassilisk, your 76 P is beautiful and you said it is light weight, I guess the belief of 70's Fender being "boat anchors" does not apply to all of them. Your Tele bass looks cool, do you still have the original pickup in the new Warmoth body? | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yeah, I cannot believe how light it is - it actually suffers neck dive. I'm guessing it's swamp ash, but there's no way to be sure. I have spoken to other owners of extra light 70's P's so they did get through from time to time, though I'll say not very often. I got that Tele as a teen and it was a time when making changes to a guitar/bass was almost automatic. The first thing that usually went was the finish - what did we know from ordering different colors? So, to condense a long road at one point I broke the wire on the coil whilst making all these changes and the pickup was rewound at the original Dan Armstrong store here in NYC - I think it was son Kent that did it. I do still have it and it does work though I haven't actually mounted it since then. The Tele neck spent many years on a Koa Jazz body until I finally resurrected it with a fully loaded body I got on ebay. Right now it has a Duncan SCPB 1/4 lb'er and I'm real happy with it. | ||
| bob2
Junior Username: bob2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2009 |
glad to help | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 265 Registered: 12-2004 |
I don't want to forget the Frankenbass Geddy, very nice too. Exactly what Leo had in mind; interchangable parts for the working class musician. (Message edited by southpaw on January 11, 2013) | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 266 Registered: 12-2004 |
Ok Rami, I have a solution for you to share your Fender collection with us: I discovered the "panaramic" setting on my smart phone and it works terrific. So line up all your Fenders, set your phone camera to panarama, press the button while moving slowly left to right and share that wonderful collection with us. Oh and please do the same for your great Alembic collection, I know you have some amazing Santa Rosa Artwork too! Thanks |
