| Author | Message | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5312 Registered: 7-2004 |
So I'm sitting here at work listening to the Grateful Dead channel on sirius/XM radio and they are playing a show from 11/14/71 in Ft. Worth Texas. MY GOD Phil's tone is just AMAZING!!!!! Totally blows me away! Clear and distinct in the mix. Much preferable (at least to me) to the almost subsonic tone of later years. I HAD to post this! I assume he's playing "The Godfather". Boy, did Alembic get that one right! Bill, tgo | ||
| sparechaynge
Intermediate Member Username: sparechaynge Post Number: 106 Registered: 6-2010 |
Oh, yes they did. Phil didn't hurt it any either. | ||
| cje
Intermediate Member Username: cje Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2009 |
It's even more astounding when you put that tone up against other 1971 bass recordings. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1200 Registered: 1-2005 |
Oh yeah, I knew there was a reason I liked that guy! ;) Actually, I think there is a whole lesson in "bass" embedded in Phil Lesh... | ||
| moonliner
Member Username: moonliner Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2004 |
Amen to that! I remember first hearing that tone when someone played me Europe 72 back in my formative years... My high school rock band "Mind" did about 90% Grateful Dead. It was quite the schooling, listening so intently, trying to figure out the bass parts.... that tone seeped into my subconscious and I've been on a quest ever since. I understand tone mostly comes from your fingers and approach, but I'm finally trying to get Phil's bass from that era recreated... within my limited funds :-) | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Senior Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 499 Registered: 7-2009 |
Well, Bill. I am hooked too. I bought Mikes stereo Starfire, and I am going to try to make it sound like that. Here we go again! | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1713 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nick, That was always my goal for it, but I never had the funds to complete the task... (sigh). Good luck in the quest,  Mike (Message edited by dadabass2001 on January 29, 2013) | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2012 |
Lesh and Casady were the first bassists whose tone(s) intrigued me. Their complex and distinctive tones were integral to the music they helped create because their innovative melodic basslines were able to stand out in the mix. In the same way cranked amplifiers, fuzztones and overdrive pedals allowed guitarists to "step out front" as featured instrumentalists (largely replacing the sax), Lesh and Casady's landmark bass tones helped pave the way for bass players to become more than just producers of indistinct rhythmic "thuds" used to reinforce the drums. | ||
| bassilisk
Intermediate Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2009 |
I've always been blown away by his tone (and playing) through all these years. This is what really boggles me - despite the various basses he has used, including the Modulus 6'ers, his tone has remained constant. You can sell "it's in your fingers" up to point. Widely disparate gear, and he still has the signature Leshness working. I'd really like to know how he does that. (Message edited by bassilisk on January 31, 2013) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2778 Registered: 5-2009 |
"We have all been here before" http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/85333.html?1298407199 And it is an interesting topic ! | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 309 Registered: 9-2009 |
I've noticed that about a lot of other bassists who have used a variety of equipment through the years but still have that distinctive tone. One who comes to mind is Peter Cetera who was a pretty darn good bassist for Chicago until he started writing and singing nothing but ballads for the lovesick. His tone remained the same even though at various points he used an EB-3, other Gibson basses, and a Fender Precision or Jazz bass. Tends to reinforce the idea that its the fingers and technique that produce the sound as much as the equipment. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2012 |
Re: "fingers" - yes, they are a part of the "tone equation": Ears, head, heart and vision to fingers to fingerboard, pickups, cord, amp and cab to PA / room or to preferred method of recording. IMO, all great players have a very clear vision of how they want to sound and they manipulate the gear they use (or are forced to use) to achieve it. That having been said, Phil's tone was entirely different in the early days of the Dead when he used a Fender Precision through Fender amps, as was Jack's tone with his Jazz Bass prior to discovering the Versatone amp. And - I believe we could all agree that both of them achieved their most distinctive and arguably "best" tones after interacting with the wizards of Alembic. Why? Did the excitement of finding a piece of gear that allowed them to hear the tone that that was in their head(s) spur a sudden burst of creativity or did it just allow them to feel more confident that they were doing what they THOUGHT they were doing? For me, if my ears are telling me that something doesn't sound good, my fingers are going to hesitate to execute what's in my head / heart and creativity takes a back seat to frustration. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1412 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't ever recall Phil using a Precision. He had a Jazz for a while in the 60s. His first bass was an EB-0, though. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 62 Registered: 6-2012 |
Re: Precision - I'm probably mistaken, I'm not much of an authority on early Dead gear. The pix I've seen are not real clear, but it looked like a Fender of some kind. Regardless of what he used early on, my point was he sounded different after receiving his Alembic intervention. And to my ear, something approximating that tone is the tone he has most often achieved since then, although he seems to have strayed a bit from that in recent years. Same guy, same fingers, different tones. I attribute the difference to the influence of the gear he has used and is currently using. | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 310 Registered: 9-2009 |
Or to the influence of what could be hundreds of other things including changed (some might say improved, but I won't) recording techniques, playback technology (once again I won't claim an improvement here), different acoustics in live venues (this is one thing that has certainly improved over the "old" days), and Phil's 70+ year old hands, head, and ears. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2781 Registered: 5-2009 |
Double P Bass Doug Irwin neck through  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2782 Registered: 5-2009 |
 | ||
| pasewark
Intermediate Member Username: pasewark Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2003 |
I always thought Phils Erwin sounded like crap. But that's just me. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1440 Registered: 5-2002 |
That's not just you. I think it's true and I wouldn't be surprised if he might agree. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2798 Registered: 5-2009 |
Doug Irwin lent me one of his Irwin Bass's to try out at a gig once with the option of purchase. The one that he lent me had HI-A ( early bartolini) pickups) It was a coffee house gig so I seriously needed to keep my dynamics in check and as a result was not able to really do all I would have done at a louder gig, I took it to a jam later and was abel to push it a little harder .The one I had was a nice instrument , response wise and the Hi-A 's were OK, but NOT Alembic . I ended not keeping it. In retrospect perhaps ; I should have purchased it and gotten Alembic Pickups and electronics, however as I recall at the time Alembic Activators did not exist yet . I do know someone who has an Irwin Bass with Alembic Series I pickups and electronics and that bass sounds great . I played it not that long ago. It has sliding pickups ! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1442 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm not trying to knock Doug's basses in general. I just don't think that particular one was all that successful. I've gotten to check a few of his guitars and they've all been wonderful | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2800 Registered: 5-2009 |
Edwin, I did not think that you were knocking them in general . I agree that one ( double p pickups) was the not best one in the batch sound wise. Wolf |
