| Author | Message | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 249 Registered: 7-2008 |
Played a last-minute, "First Friday" gig in Oakland last week in a drum 'n' bass duet that was total improv, mainly off spontaneous odd-meter grooves where I get to really dig in and hold the fort while this crazy drummer who's fresh out of high school just does his thing! My main rig was locked away at a friend's house so I played directly through my Radial Bassbone's dual outputs into my two KRK Rokit 8 powered studio monitors. These are the older 1st generation models biamped with a total of 140 watts apiece and this configuration worked like a charm. The gig was at a newly opened coffee shop/art gallery/real estate office (I kid you not) with bare walls and a concrete floor. The drummer used low-volume multi-bundled "rods" for his sticks and the balance between us was perfect. Aside from the rig's tiny footprint and ultra portability, my bass' tone was so true and uncolored it was a revelation in that regard. Just out of curiosity, how many of you have ever played your bass through home studio sized powered monitors at a small gig? Give it a try. And it sure beats moving back-breaking cabs and racks. If you do go this route, post pics of your miniature "rig". The opposite end of the spectrum from some of the monster set-ups I've seen here...    | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 786 Registered: 2-2011 |
Sounds like a fun gig Sam! At home I play through my Presonus Audiobox USB into my M Audio BX5a powered Studio Monitors. They sound great & as you said, really bring out the pure tone of my Alembic since there is no tone control on the Audiobox. Will you be playing the coffee shop again using this rig? | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 251 Registered: 7-2008 |
Hey, Rusty! Why don't you set your stuff up as though you were going to play at a small gathering or give a demo for show-and-tell at a school, then photograph the configuration and post it here? My usual "loud" rig (Bassbone into a Crest LT15000 and Aguilar GS-112/Peavey Tri-flex PA dual 12" woofer) would be serious overkill for any coffee shop and a real hassle to transport. I think the rig I'm showing here will be my setup of choice for anything except non-PA outdoor gigs. Besides, I can buy a few more powered Rokits or something comparable and gradually build a totally modular system in every sense of the word. Am thinking about integrating a laptop with efx and ambience as I mentioned on facebook. Endless possibilities.... | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2065 Registered: 11-2004 |
You know I may borrow my son's Alesis studio monitors and give it a try(not that he will let me use them live) I have a Zoom B3 which I could use as the 'pre amp'. Nice to see minimilism here instead of the usual massive set ups that grace these posts. My minimal rig is a Roland Bass Cube with an extension speaker I built - both 12" speakers and great for portability | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 252 Registered: 7-2008 |
Cool, Terry Let us know how that Zoom/Alesis combo works out and like I mentioned to Rusty, set everything up like you'd use it live and post a pic... | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1414 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sam, I love the sound of a clean Alembic. One thought: you might want to invert the top speaker to put the tweeters closer together (thus reducing interference issues). Probably not a huge deal, depending on where things get crossed over. Definitely continue vertical stacking, though! That will offer the best horizontal dispersion, and get things closer to your ear. Bradley | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 787 Registered: 2-2011 |
Hey Sam! Here's a picture of my studio setup that I play through at home. If I have a small venue to play I use my Hartke Kickback with a single 15. For most live gigs I'm spoiled with my Eden WT800 & Eden D410XST/D115XLT speakers with an SF-2 for added sparkle! It's a beast to carry, but the sound is oh so worth the effort!  | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2012 |
That's pretty trick. I always wondered if something like that would be viable in a live situation. So recently I took the plunge and started using this:  With the three channels programmed for "Fat Tube", "SVT" and "Slap". The FX loop is programmed to be activated for each channel and I run a Boss Chorus and a Dunlop Bass Wah in the loop, which I control manually. The Sans Amp XLR out feeds a mixing board which, in turn, feeds Mackie powered mains and powered monitor wedges. I ask to be set "flat" at the board and tell the sound person to set me where they want me for the situation and give me enough bass in the monitor mix so I can hear myself. It's been great to not have to bring a pile of bass gear to gigs. Bass case in one hand, pedal board and guitar stand in the other. Set up time is a fraction of what it used to be, no stage volume / turf issues and more room to move around. To improve on this, I thought about getting my own powered monitor wedge and feeding it from the Sans Amp 1/4" out. This would complicate things slightly, but would provide me with even more bass in my face. So - if anyone has a recommendation for a decent powered wedge monitor that can handle a 5-string low "B" - I'm listening. | ||
| xlrogue6
Advanced Member Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 252 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks for posting this, Sam. Suddenly I know what to do with a couple of orphan powered monitors that have been languishing in my shop! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1965 Registered: 9-2002 |
Sam, funny you should talk about yur usual rig: I've always wondered why no has tried a 'Bass 2.1' rig: http://www.peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/865/117536/TriFlex%20II Put an F2B or Dememter, etc., in line between you and that, I wonder . . . . J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1966 Registered: 9-2002 |
Sam, funny you should mention your big rig: I often wonder why there are no 'Bass 2.1' rigs: http://www.peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/865/117536/TriFlex%20II Put an F2B, a UA mic pre, a Demeter, etc., in line between you and this, or something like it, I wonder . . . . J o e y | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 253 Registered: 7-2008 |
Bradley, thanks for the tip. I was planning on comparing different stacking configurations to get the best sound. I'm not a fan of tweets in my bass cabs (#samsbasscabs -- just kidding) and I normally have them differentially set, volume wise, since it's my experience the bottom cab always couples to the floor for more bass and I tend to turn that tweeter up a little more. On these guys I start with them full up, then back off since I figure they may be the first to blow up. Still experimenting with all the gain staging options associated with the level/eq/boost/contour switch on the Bassbone. Nice setup, Rusty. I'm sure your main rig sounds killer. I'm 58 and my back sometimes feels like I'm 158. David, I checked out your earlier thread re: bass DI's. Yeah, your configuration looks to be awesome in sound and flexibility, especially with 3 channels. Kent, please don't forget to post pics once you get something cool going with those! Joey, I just have the subwoofer from the original Peavey Tri-Flex model, not the current version. A heavy metal band at my former rehearsal studio had to leave in the dead of night(!) and had two of just the subwoofers and gave them to me for free cuz' they weigh a ton. I gave the most road-worn cab to another friend. Don't know about the current versions, but this setup has a built-in crossover in the woofer cab set at 250Hz. In my big rig I run a full range dry signal from one channel of a Crest LT1500 to that cab and another signal that incorporates a Roland efx unit through the other channel of the Crest and into an Aguilar GS-112. A heavy rig, literally and figuratively. Here's the first page of a reprint of the owners' manual for the original Peavey Tri-Flex.  | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1415 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sam, I've found that most folks that "don't like tweets" in bass cabs actually just don't like the bad designs of bass cabs. You have a woofer that can't reach super high (and has some nasty effects in that region), coupled to a tweeter that isn't really designed to go that low, tied together with the cheapest possible generic first order crossover. It's a disaster. The fEarful/fEarless designs and the Thunderchild get this way, way better: properly sized boxes and ports, decent crossovers (amazing, in the case of the Thunderchild) with good components and killer speakers. The Thunderchild would be a good replacement for monitors if space and weight are at a premium. It gets "defy the laws of physics" loud for such a small/light cab. David: The f110/112/115 will handle that bill nicely, other than not being powered. They are basically kickback bass cabs, will handle low B like nobody's business. http://www.bnaaudio.com/products/products.htm Use a small Class-D amp and done. Bradley | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 254 Registered: 7-2008 |
Bradley, agree 100% on the Thunderchild. Got to experience one of those at the last Alembic Nor. Cal. gathering. Defying the laws of physics, indeed. If I could afford it I'd get one in a heartbeat. I don't consider myself a Luddite, but I remember the day when bass cabs didn't have tweeters, at least not from the mainstream manufacturers. I don't slap or pop and I remember playing through 4 single 15" Alembic cabs in the 70's powered by one side of a MacIntosh 2300 with a maple neck jazz bass and new Rotosounds and I got PLENTY of high end snarl and crack on top of a huge blossoming bottom. But also, just to fudge a little, I remember a long-ago interview with Les Claypool who mentioned he liked 15's because he had a lot of "sonic junk" in his high end that comes through loud and clear with smaller speakers but 15's seemed to mask it. Don't know if he still feels that way, but that explanation stuck with me.... | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2012 |
Bradley - Thanks for the advice, I'll check out Thunderchild. In the meantime, I did some quick research on Mackie and QSC powered monitors and found the Mackie HD1221 and the QSC KW122 - both 12" 2 way wedge-style designs that weigh about 50 lbs. These are similar to what I have provided to me in my current project, only they are better quality. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1416 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sam, Basses don't really have that much high-end in PA terms, which is why a single 15 can sound okay. One other problem that you run into with 15s is beaming, so all the high-end content (from something like 700-900Hz) comes out in a straight line from the cone. This is why having a mid in a bass cab makes a lot of sense. If you're playing an Alembic, I think it's highly desirable to just have "my bass, only louder". Some people want coloration from their cabs (SWR, Eden, etc), I think that an Alembic really deserves clean amplification. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1453 Registered: 5-2002 |
Also, the JBLs used in the Alembic cabinets have a lot more high end extension than most 15s. The only real problem with their frequency response is that it gets very beamy at the higher end. There are some newer cabinets coming out these days from boutique designers that are super small and apparently sound great. The Crazy 8 and Crazy 88 from Greenboy is apparently amazing sounding and there's a trio of speaker builders (Leland Crooks, Mike Arnopol and someone else) who started a business called Big E speakers that apparently do defy conventional speaker design wisdom. I haven't heard those, but I'd love to. Apparently super small and super efficient and super deep. It's a great time to be a bass player! http://bigeloudspeakers.com | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 255 Registered: 7-2008 |
Bradley, I hear what you're saying. I understand that there are different challenges and limitations to be overcome if we want the ideal live sound for our basses. There's a huge variety of high-tech, esoteric gear designs created specifically for that purpose. Many of these are large, heavy, only come into their own when cranked at loud volumes and/or are very expensive. When I had to resort to using my studio monitors for live bass amplification it occurred to me there may be other pieces of gear we possibly have but never considered serving double duty similar to this. Personally, I can more easily see where having a mid makes a lot of sense as you pointed out. Back in the days when I had an F1-X I once biamped my then 4 x 10" / 1 x 15" rig, crossed it over at the lowest point of the tweeter in the 4 x 10" cab and completely turned the 15" cab off. When I played it sounded like listening to the ocean in a seashell or a scratchy transistor radio and at a volume level that couldn't have possibly been audible over the other speakers had they been involved. I also notice when I see bass cabs mic'd on stage I almost never see a mic placed on a tweeter. I know the saying goes there's no such thing as a dumb question, but I will stretch the truth of that by asking this: How come 6-string guitar cabs don't have an array of tweeters and, say, a mid-range speaker in a kind of mirror image of a typical bass cab? Should I get ready to duck a bunch of flying shoes?  | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 256 Registered: 7-2008 |
Hey, Edwin Thanks for the heads up on the Big E's. One reason I have to go small is that I have no car at the moment... | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2012 |
Nope - good question. I also play electric and acoustic guitar and electric guitar is a totally different animal. Low-tech, lower output passive pickups through primitive (by bass standards) tube powered gear is usually much better for electric guitar, especially where overdriven tones are concerned. Overdrive tends to boost the mids & highs, which will sound harsh & brittle and tear your head off unless they are tempered by some speaker inefficiency. This is why those low-watt 25 watt 12" Celestion green backs and 15 watt 12" alnico blues are so highly regarded for overdriven guitar applications. They "warm up" the overall tone a bit while retaining just the right amount of high-end sparkle. This is similar to what you were getting at with your Claypool "sonic junk" reference above. Alembic-style electric guitars can get there through the right kind of rig, but the consensus among the guitarists I know is, they are better suited for cleaner, more articulate applications. If one is playing cleaner using this type of instrument, one could get away with a more "hi-fi" approach to guitar amplification, but IMO, they'd still have to be careful to tame the high end - which means no tweeters. Acoustic guitars, on the other hand, are more like electric basses. They benefit from smaller, more efficient speakers and tweeters and cleaner amplification with a lot of headroom. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1418 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sam, If I were trying to produce a hi-fi guitar, I'd be running exactly that: efficient 6" or 8" speakers, crossed over properly to a nice waveguided tweeter. This happens to be what "acoustic" guitar amps look like. Guitars running 12s is historical (only way to get enough volume, based on amplifier power), and then distortion came into the mix. Interestingly, the side by side design of a lot of guitar amps (e.g. 2x12) is terrible for dispersion (yay comb filtering!); they would do better turned on their side. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5363 Registered: 7-2004 |
They may make excellent speakers, but that Big E website is terrible! I just explored it and still have no idea whatsoever what their speakers look like or how much they cost. I sure hope they design speakers better than they do websites! Bill, tgo | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1454 Registered: 5-2002 |
The website is terrible. It's only been in the last few months that this Waveguide Vortex concept has been discovered and so they are spending all their time getting product built and designs refined. I have no idea how much they cost as well. There are a couple of threads at TalkBass that are pretty interesting for those who want more information. It sounds like they only have maybe a couple of dozen cabinets out in the world at this point. Here's the second thread with a link to the first one at the very top. Interesting reading. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/big-e-speakers-pt-2-a-963685/ | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 257 Registered: 7-2008 |
Thanks for your info, Bradley. I'll make a special note of the differences between stacking the KRK's with the tweets vertically opposite each other vs. with the 2 ports and the woofers vertically opposite. I always sit when I play and the top cab is approximately the same height as my armpit. These are near field monitors and I have no idea how well they actually project into say, a 30' room and how much an empty vs. room full of people will affect the sound. I'll probably have to enlist some helpers and maybe record the room sound from various distances to get a feel for how my system really performs. | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 482 Registered: 8-2002 |
This is my rig for playing gigs in small pubs, cafes, telephone booths and shoe boxes. Aguilar TH 350 and a TC Electronic RS210. One trip for load in. 48lb. cabinet and all the rest in my gig bag. slawie  (Message edited by Slawie on March 09, 2013) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1455 Registered: 5-2002 |
That cabinet is 48lbs?! That's what my big fEARful weighs! | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 483 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sorry fat-fingered the weight. Should read 46lbs. ;) I have a bit of Jonesing going on for a fearful. I know of a place that will do the material and cutting With Siberian ply. I will email you. >Hijack over< Back to your regular program. | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 259 Registered: 7-2008 |
Hey, Slawie! Not really a hijack if we're including examples of the smallest rig possible to actually get the job done. Especially when we're talking one-trip loadin/loadout. Per earlier comments, have you tried the cab oriented vertically at a gig? | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 484 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes vertically stacked for me is normal position sounds great. Saturday night provided a stage with very little room and the stand I had it on was very high so that I could get the projection over an obstacle. If I stood it on its side I would be deaf in one ear. Sideways like that exercised my kidney. I had a 30" x 30" place to work in. I normally stack em. I have a picture somewhere here with an array stacked 3 high. Correct me if I am wrong but a single two speaker cabinet would/sound the same vertical or horizontal. My understanding is when you stack multiple cabinets you avoid phase cancellation and combing artifacts. There are undoubtedly folks here who would have the right answers on those phenomenae. Slawie (Message edited by Slawie on March 10, 2013) | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 312 Registered: 6-2004 |
I use the tc electronics Staccato 51 in a combo with the 210 cab oriented vertically -it's great. For slightly more open sound i add a single 12 - even greater. And for gigs where they are providing a back line, I pop the amp out of the cab and throw it in my gig bag, and can almost always just use my amp with whatever monster cab is on stage so I always have my own sound (for better or worse). That is truly the most portable rig! | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 485 Registered: 8-2002 |
And here is the big one. I can use in any combination and configuration depending on the room. 210, 212, 210+212, 212+212, 210+212+212. slawie  | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3366 Registered: 6-2002 |
What are you hanging your bass off at the side of the cab? Jazzyvee | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2290 Registered: 10-2003 |
Slawie, I love your rig! John | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 487 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jazzy, That is my patented; Slawie Hanging Instrument Tool 3000  | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1425 Registered: 10-2006 |
Very cool! And as a soundman, allow me to state that I've seen few things prettier than that plexaglass-in-front-of-the-Marshall trick. Peter | ||
| growlypants
Junior Username: growlypants Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2011 |
I was JUST going to say.....! | ||
| nnek
Member Username: nnek Post Number: 90 Registered: 8-2009 |
Tiny rig for my upright with a Fishman BP100 on the bridge and a sure SM98 on a boom inside the bass.  If it wern't for the upright it would only be one trip. The pre amp below the F2B is for the SM98's power supply... plus extra warm tubeiness | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2012 |
Here's what I used Saturday night for an outdoor gig with a fairly large stage:  QSC K-12 1,000 watt (2,000 peak) powered monitor w/horn and 12" driver. Weighs about 40 lbs. Here's the full rig:  SKB pedalboard from left to right: Sansamp Bass Driver Deluxe, Boss Chorus, Boss Tuner, Ernie Ball Volume Pedal and Dunlop Bass Wah. All cables are George L. And Music Man Sting Ray Classic 5 (soon to be replaced by EUROPA 5). The XLR output from the Bass Driver fed the PA mixer and the 1/4" output fed the input on the QSC monitor. Volume on QSC was about 1/2 of full volume. | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2008 |
Looks (and I'm sure, sounds) like a great set-up. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2012 |
It got the job done, but I'll be honest, this rig by itself was probably just a bit too small for the size of the stage (about 25' wide by 10' deep). Fortunately, the stage was partially enclosed in the back, so that helped contain the sound and throw it out to the audience. I ran the QSC volume at about half of the max. and I probably could have pushed it a little harder, but I didn't want to get greedy. Overall sound quality was quite good after I dialed back the output from the Bass Driver a bit. In hindsight, I probably should have used a traditional amp & cab for this gig, but I wanted to push the envelope a bit which allowed me to confirm that this small rig will certainly be more than enough to use indoors or on a smaller outdoor stage. And, I was encouraged enough by the QSC's performance with the bass that I'm going to use it along with an LR Baggs DI for my next acoustic guitar gig. I tried it at home yesterday for the first time and it killed. Crystal clear sound with a ton of headroom. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 832 Registered: 2-2011 |
I have been on a quest for a good sounding combo amp to use on small gigs where my Eden stack is too much. I tried TC Electronics, GK, Ampeg, Acoustic, & Mark Bass & none of them had the sound I was looking for, which was tight low end punch with good clarity & enough wattage to compete with acoustic drums & 2 guitar players with loud amps. They all had their plusses, but none had it all. I really wanted something I could kick back like a monitor so the soundman didn't have to deal with stage sound from me at all in the smaller venues. Most of the amps I tried had decent bottom end when they were flat on the floor but had poor clarity & sounded muddy. When you tilt them back they have great clarity but lost all the bottom end. I went to 2 different Guitar Centers a half dozen times trying out different amps only to be disappointed. It was fun bringing my Alembic though, it always drew a crowd with lots of questions! I was down to my last amp I wanted to try which was an Acoustic B450mkII. I had played through the same head into a 6X10 cabinet & it sounded great so I was hopeful the 2X10 combo would have a similar sound, but once again I was disappointed. It had amazing clarity & plenty of power, but lacked the bottom end I wanted even when it was sitting flat on the floor. Before I left, I looked over at a Fender Rumble 350 which I had seen every time, but never tried it because I thought Fender bass amps were for country bands & flatwound basses. Boy, was I wrong!!! This amp sounds amazing! It has the tight, full bottom & incredible clarity too, & that was with the bass knob at about 2:00, so plenty of more low end in reserve! One thing it has that none of the others had was that it has punch & clarity sitting straight up with me standing 4-5' away which is about where I stand at the smaller venues we play. Our next gig is one of the small venues so I can't wait to try it out with the band! If you have never played on one of these, I highly recommend it! It has removeable casters which make it easy to move around & it doesn't loose any bottom end being raised off the floor on the casters. I ordered a tilt back stand for it so I can set it up like a monitor, but it may be just as effective standing up facing sideways beside the drum kit. It weighs 65 pounds which is much heavier than the TC & GK, but it has handles on each side so you pick it up with both hands, not one like the TC & GK, & the weight feels about the same. http://www.fender.com/series/rumble/rumble-350-combo/  | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Intermediate Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 113 Registered: 6-2012 |
Yup. We sell these at the small guitar store where I work on Saturdays. One of the best-kept secrets in the world of bass gear. Good value for the $$. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 833 Registered: 2-2011 |
I traded in a 12 year old Hartke Kickback 15, & got the Fender for less than $300, so it was a great value for the $$! | ||
| hb3
Senior Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 745 Registered: 2-2005 |
Sam...I would've loved to've heard that improvised drum 'n bass duet! | ||
| hb3
Senior Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 746 Registered: 2-2005 |
I may as well add my thoughts to the topic...I'm using a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6 and it sounds great (for what it is). My usual rig has been an Aguilar monster system with the now out-of-production tube power amp and the tube pre. It's always had a problem that I tried to get corrected when I first got it (over ten years ago), and it seems like it's gotten worse -- a subtle distortion laying over the notes as they sustain...kind of like a rattling snare drum when a frequency is rattling the snare mechanism. This is particularly bad when I'm playing piccolo bass with reverb and delay. And I don't know whether to even try to have this fixed again, considering that last time we swapped out the tubes and it didn't seem to make much difference. I think they said the tubes had become microphonic, and this is why it was picking up and amplifying this weird sound. So I'm pretty much playing the Genz Benz out of necessity. I'm thinking of picking up a second neodymium cabinet for it. The piccolo bass actually sounds pretty good through it -- the regular Alembic 4 string not as good. But it's simply no comparison to the giant (and incredibly heavy) Aguilar rig. Quandary. I'll probably keep the Genz for small gigs anyway, but.... Any tube experts out there? | ||
| jet_powers
Senior Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 550 Registered: 2-2003 |
I picked up a Rumble 75 last year and found they named it correctly. It does rumble. Highs are a bit sketchy but it rarely leaves my living room. I could use it for a "quiet" type of gig.... | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Intermediate Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 114 Registered: 6-2012 |
Hijack alert! Re: tubes - check out Fender's new Super Bassman. There's a 300 watt version and a 100 watt version. The 300 watt version compares favorably to an SVT, but has more versatility with two footswitchable channels. I realize that mentioning this here is the height of irony as this thread pertains to portable emergency rigs - but you since you asked... I now return you to the original thread. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1532 Registered: 5-2002 |
My favorite portable small rig is an Eden WXT500 with a fEARful 2/5/1. Some of the other Greenboy related cabs look interesting, too, like the Crazy 8 or Crazy 88. Also, are people around here familiar with B E speakers? They've got this vortex waveguide thing that apparently has the thing punching well above weight and size. I've yet to hear one, but I'm intrigued. I also really like my Fender Showman with a JBL K120 in a Joe's Thiele cab for a small rig. Very nice old school sound, although not the last word in small and light. | ||
| hb3
Senior Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 747 Registered: 2-2005 |
I am definitely going to check out the Fender amp mentioned upthread. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 834 Registered: 2-2011 |
I think you will like it Hugh! Unless you play in a metal band with triple stack Marshall's or play on a huge stage or outdoors, I think this is a do-all amp. My biggest fear now is that I won't want to use my Eden rig anymore! 65 lbs that will fit in the back seat of my truck VS a combined 300 lbs that take up my entire truck bed & back seat is going to be hard to resist!   | ||
| rjmsteel
Advanced Member Username: rjmsteel Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2008 |
Did someone say: "The fEarful/fEarless designs and the Thunderchild get this way, way better" (Bradley) and "Mike Arnopol and someone else" (Edwin); I own one of each both built by Mike (Arnopol) totally in composite materials. The top Cabinet is my Thunderchild 212 coming in at 38 pounds with two 3012LF Eminence drivers loaded and below that is my fEARful 15/6/1 at like 36 pounds loaded with a 3015LF Eminence a Eighteensound 6" mid and horn, (can`t remember brand) with waveguides. Oh, and of coarse my Elan six and '66 Jazz bass.  | ||
| hb3
Senior Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 749 Registered: 2-2005 |
Do those giraffes ever suddenly jump up straight in the air at random moments? | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 279 Registered: 7-2008 |
"Do those giraffes ever suddenly jump up straight in the air at random moments"...Hilarious! And you took the words right out of my mouth, Hugh. And sadly, that bass/drum duet thing is no more after just one freakin' gig. The young drummer has been tapped to play with a budding singer with major label backing (and who only wanted guys much younger than me in her band). And since I look like Methuselah's great grandfather I was odd man out. Oh, well. Meanwhile, once I get a job (I'm now semi-retired and selling photography and T-shirt designs online) I'm ditching my Crest/Aguilar rig and getting one of these Thunderchild enclosures and a GK MB 800 or equivalent. Killer in every sense of the word and I'm surprised I haven't seen more of these around. http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_thunderchild112.html Strongly recommend tracking one down to try it out, if you can. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1264 Registered: 1-2005 |
Isn't that the same as the one that Victor brought to last year's gathering? Very tempting! I ended up going cheap with a GK MB-112 II. | ||
| rjmsteel
Advanced Member Username: rjmsteel Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2008 |
The TC 212 is very smooth and round sounding where I can get a pretty fretless sounding tone out of my fretted Series custom. And the height of the cabinet is just fantastic as it brings the waveguide, (which is very smooth sounding and not harsh at all), up to ear level. Sometimes I tilt the cabinet back a little bit too. Reason I`m pointing this out is because I rarely use both cabinets on a gig as you see them stacked in the photo. It also keeps the giraffes in line from doing random actions too! The TC212 is a 4 ohm cabinet whereas the 15/6 is an 8 ohm cabinet. I really wish I had ordered, (or could have ordered) the TC as a 8 ohm cabinet so I could run both cabinet loads together with my Eden head. 2.67 running ohms is obviously not a good idea. With that said, running two heads or a two channel amp in Stereo is pretty awesome.... just not needed most of the time. The fEARful is flat out Low End power! I really have to tame the lowend in a lot of the rooms it goes in, just ask Edwin. In fact someone here recently has a thread going about a hollow wooden stage they are playing at where the Low G resonates out of control. Well that same thing happened at last Saturdays night gig with my 15/6, Superfilter and an Eden head, only my tough to tame note was the Low F! It took till the third set to finally dial in some control. Rich (Message edited by rjmsteel on May 09, 2013) | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 280 Registered: 7-2008 |
Yeah, Harry, same rig. Otherworldly volume, clarity and punch. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Intermediate Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 119 Registered: 6-2012 |
UPDATE: This past Friday night, I played the same outdoor gig that I mentioned above using the same "emergency rig" once again feeding the PA. A friend of mine was in the audience and took this bad cell phone pic of the band on stage. The QSC monitor sat just outside of the picture frame to my right.  The stage actually extends another 10-15 feet in either direction beyond where we set up - so it's about 30 feet wide by at least 15 feet deep, which is a little larger than I originally thought. We placed the PA speakers near the far edges of the stage. This time, I pushed the QSC to 2/3 of full volume and it helped to cover the stage area a little better. My friend, who is also a musician, said that the bass sounded great and cut through the mix nicely, sounding full, thick and defined. Given this review and the fact that I can carry everything in one trip, I'm strongly considering changing the name of this rig from "emergency" to "permanent"... | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 848 Registered: 2-2011 |
UPDATE 2: David, I just played my first gig with my new Fender Rumble 350 & it passed with flying colors! It sounded amazing & had plenty of power! I played on about 1 1/2 - 2 all night & could hear myself very well. I put it on a kickback stand beside the drums facing sideways so the sound was in my left ear & I loved what I was hearing! I'm with you, I think this will now be my main amp except for the outdoor shows on big stages. The Fender is perfect for smaller venues where I'm no more than 10 feet from my amp, but my Eden will be better for the big stages. I too was able to get everything in one trip as opposed to 3 trips with my big rig. Now I'm thinking about splitting my rack from the 6 space with everything in it to (2) 3 space racks so I can have my power conditioner, tuner, & SF-2 seperate to use with the Fender. That will make it much lighter to set up my big rig too, my current rack weighs 85 pounds & is very hard to lift chest high to sit it on top of my speaker boxes. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1540 Registered: 5-2002 |
I played at the Oriental Theater in Denver last Friday. As an experiment, I brought my recently refurbished '67 Showman (Mercury Magnetics output transformer and power supply upgrades with Philips 7581A output tubes) and a small Thiele cabinet with a JBL K120. I had the usual QSC/fEARful 15/6/1 under it, as the main rig. The bass went into an F2B->Grace M103 preamp section. Well, during soundcheck, I fired up the Showman and it sounded so good I ended up never even hitting the power switch on the QSC. I kept thinking that I would run out of headroom and start hearing distortion, but it remained clean for as loud as I wanted. I think it's time for a significant downsize. The Showman/JBL rig will probably be my new club rig, leaving the big one for outdoor and very big venues. I'd love to put together a JBL 15" cabinet. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Intermediate Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 120 Registered: 6-2012 |
Mercury Magnetics, baby - that's the shizzzit! Bet it sounded amazing. | ||
| that_sustain
Intermediate Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 188 Registered: 8-2012 |
I'm starting to check out keyboard amps for my bass. The one's I'm seeing are all in pretty good shape, probably came from a school or church. There's a Peavey KB300 400w online in near mint shape for only $350!! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1576 Registered: 5-2002 |
OK, well a Sunn 200S dropped into my lap from Craigslist. The price was right (~$300) but it only has one JBL. However, it sounds amazing with the Showman. Big and clean. Last night we had to scramble to get on stage with very little time to get organized. I had told the soundguy that I wanted to mic up the cabinet with the RE20 I had brought with me. He was skeptical, but in the confusion to get going, my DI never got a mic cable. 3 minutes into the set, he came up to the stage and flashed me a sign saying "Where's your DI signal?" At the end of the set, I told him that it never got plugged in, but he didn't care. He told me he wouldn't even use it even if there was one, because the mic sounded so good. So, the next step is to get another JBL happening, fix up some of the infrastructure issues (it's missing the original screws for the back, the washers and the bolts holding the speakers in and maybe get a Courtenay Pollock for the front. It's so weird to go back to basically the rig I had in the 70s in high school and realize it's what I wanted all along! I think maybe if I had known about flatwound strings, I would still be playing my original set up. | ||
| that_sustain
Intermediate Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 189 Registered: 8-2012 |
Do they still make parts for the Sunn? Most Peavey's never get maintenanced. I've got a few days to think and look for the right thing. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2954 Registered: 5-2009 |
The Sunn 200S is a fairly simple tube circuit with two 6550 output power tubes . I had one many years ago as well as the larger more powerful 2000S powered by four 6550's . Those tubes are easily available along with the preamp and rectifier tubes. Where things starts to get expensive is if you have to replace transformers both power and output . The rest of the parts such as caps and resistors should be accessible as well . " Back in the day ", I also had a Dual Showman back then (4 6L6 power tubes) . It is interesting that I liked the combination of the Fender and Sunn amps as well. The combination seemed to work well for me at the time . I had them pushing 2 JBL k140's in Alembic A15 cabs and a JBL K155 in a dual throat folded horn design cab. I made the liquor bottles all the way in the back of the venue rattle from the folded horn and the dancers up front would grove and feel the bass by the stage from the A15's. Under some circumstances the combination might be considered taboo sonically ,_____but it seem to work in this situation. lately there are inexpensive GK 800RB's popping up and I find these to be a good catch on the cheap . (Message edited by sonicus on June 16, 2013) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1873 Registered: 2-2005 |
Wolf, Sounds similar to my speaker setup back when I had a stronger back and a lot less wisdom. Two Acoustic 301's with two single JBL K140 loaded cabinets on top. Still have the K140 cabinets. I've always preferred solid state for bass so I drove mine with an Acoustic 370 on the 301's and a Yamaha B100 on the JBL's. Keith |
