| Author | Message | ||
| 4u2nv
Junior Username: 4u2nv Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2003 |
I love rock n' roll, and i love playing, but recently in the past 2 years i developed a "shhhhhzzzzzz" sound in my left ear, i have to quit my gig @ the bar beacuse im afraid of having a more loud thing going in my ear. I always used ear plugs, and maybe is murphy's law that this happen to me. Does anybody here experience the same thing ? | ||
| serialnumber12
New Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 |
yes i've experienced that sound once or twice but i associated it with getting out of the swimming pool,my theory is that it could be that it's just a sort of vacuum due to a build-up of ear wax, there's a liquid you can purchace @ your walgreen's its called earwax remover,try that ,you probably just need a good drain,after playin very-loud music every day for the past 30 yrs my hearing is better than ever!. | ||
| dnburgess
Advanced Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 367 Registered: 1-2003 |
First you should have your problem diagnosed by a medical professional. It may or may not be tinitus. There is some useful information at http://www.tinnitus.org.uk There is a big psychological component of severity of the effects. The more you focus on it and stress out about it, the worse it will be. I have had it for many years but was not really aware of it until a friend had it diagnosed. When I learnt about his condition it became clear that was what I had and all of a sudden my symptoms seemed to get worse - simply because I was focusing on it. I'll often be completely oblivious to it for days on end. But if my attention is drawn to it (e.g. writing this) the symptoms become apparent. BTW an Australian clinic recently announced a cure, which involves training the brain to mask the effect (a bit like noise cancelling headphones). David B. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1156 Registered: 5-2002 |
I agree with David. Have your hearing checked by a hearing professional; not the family doctor. And I think David might have a point about the psychological effect as well; I too don't normally notice the noise in my ear anymore. I was playing in a loud two guitar band. When my ear started ringing, I had my hearing checked. I have significant high end loss in both ears and low end low in one ear. After they checked my hearing, they put molds in each ear and I had them order custom fitted ear plugs with interchangable filters. The type I ordered were specifically for musicians. The different filters have different levels of db cut. They were very effective with the band; those loud piercing guitars were under control. But the downside was that they significantly affected the tone I was hearing from my rig. The great tone I was getting from my Alembic and my rig was now flat and lifeless. So I told the guitar players I wasn't going to play anymore if they did not turn down. That worked much better than the ear plugs. At the lower sound level, I did not need the ear plugs, the sound was better, and the added bonus was that we could all hear each other better; thus the quality of our playing improved. I think the straw that broke the camel's back for me was feedback. One night the guitar player was EQ'ing the PA and let loose a piercing high end feedback that was physically painful. And a lifetime of such occurances takes its toll. I think that anytime you go to a concert, or to see a band at a bar, or to play at a venue or rehearsal, and subsequently have ringing in your ears, then you've mistreated your ears. When you think about it, it would seem to make sense that a musician would value his hearing. But then I subjected my ears to such abuse for a very long time and did nothing until the damage became obvious. So I suggest: have your hearing checked, be accepting of the current state of your hearing (the psychological factor), tell the guitar player that you will no longer be able to play with him if he insists on playing at unreasonably loud sound levels, and avoid putting yourself in situations where your ears could be further damaged. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1865 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think we called it "Meuničres desease". It is indeed pschychosomatic. If you emphasis on it it gets worse. What I herad of it is that it results from stress situations. My brother and I have it. My brother was treated for it but in the end he realizes that it went better the moment he get angry on the symptom and yelled at it to go away (NO joke)and ...it went away! I do it the same way. It comes when circumstances are going hard on me and than ...I try to take a grip and take control. PTBO | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 373 Registered: 7-2002 |
I just had my hearing checked last month as well. I was told that although I do have tinittus, my hearing is still okay except For a slight loss in the high end. I think what did it for me was standing next to too many drumkits and having cymbals blasting in my ears night after night. I now play with a drummer that has V-Drums, if he gets too loud, I can ask him to turn down. Now that's cool. I only notice it when I'm lying in bed in the morning in complete silence. It would be beautiful except for the ringing in 3 different frequencies. Anyways, white noise at a very low volume is always good to cover it up. And, remember to wear your plugs, especially if you're in the audience. Peace, Dino | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, I'm glad it's not just me. I've always attributed it to blood pressure. Most times I don't notice but right now it's roaring. Could be because this thread makes me conscience of it. Welcome back Dino! I hope your holidays were good. Sam | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 374 Registered: 7-2002 |
Thanks Sam, Yeah, the holidays were fantastic!!!! Glad to be home for a little bit. Hope yours were good too!!!! Peace, Dino | ||
| dgcarbu
Intermediate Member Username: dgcarbu Post Number: 127 Registered: 6-2004 |
4u2nv, Wow, I never heard of this before, I learned something new, thanks for the awareness of tinittus. Darrell | ||
| 4u2nv
Junior Username: 4u2nv Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, i thought i was kind of alone in this. I check my ears and i have a -15db loss on some high frequency, sometimes i dont notice the sound, but when i go to sleep its really distracting and frustrating. I dont have wax in my ears, so i think im going to try to shout and see if it goes lol , also i notice that my tv (a sony flat screen) has a high frequency that makes my tinitus louder...weird right ?, i gess no more tv for me, lol. Thanks dear alembicians. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 666 Registered: 3-2004 |
I get the sound about once every couple of months out of nowhere. I can ususally will it away in under a minute. It definitely concerns me, so I am more wary of how loud things seem to me at musical get-togethers. I think the guitar player in one of my bands had bad high frequency deterioration because he would play these head-splitting notes and not even know he was doing it. I saw the drummer's eyes cross one night on one of these when the amps were up on row of tables behind his head. The things kids do when they think they're invulnerable! Take care of yourselves. -Bob | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 569 Registered: 11-2003 |
Years ago I was playing in a way too loud band and felt I was sweating a lot. As I wiped what I thought was sweat away from my face, I realized that it was blood coming out of my right ear. I sold my amps within a week and didn’t touch an electric guitar for about 6 years. As time went by, I started to understand that there was a reason an amplifier had pots and didn’t have to be maxed all the way up in order to produce sound. Little bricks of wisdom have pounded me about the head until I finally understood. I still love to rock and roll, but always with earplugs and at less than skull crushing volume. I don't miss the headaches, but I kind of miss the back rubs I used to get from the bass players rig... Ringing in my ears? I’ll let you know as soon as it stops……. | ||
| serialnumber12
New Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Turn it Up & Tear it up, give the bassplayer some!!!" | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 617 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have tinnitus in my left ear as well, had it since 1996. I was aware of it (Pete Townsend story)already, and when I woke up one morning with a ringing noise in my ear and when it did not go away after 5 minutes I knew I had it. I went to see a specialist who put me through some tests and confirmed that I had tinnitus (he did too btw). What the graphs showed was that I had a drop of about 20dbs at 2000Hz in my left ear. I should go see him sometime soon to see where I'm at these days. Back when I got it I stepped away from music a bit, but then I realized it wasn't that bad and it really did not mess me up musically in any way, unlike with some folks I've heard of. Basically there is no cure so far, the only way to deal with it is not to think about it. And you're right, Sam, the more you think about it the more you hear it. I always hear it the most when I go to bed and all is supposed to be quiet; then again I've always gone to sleep with some music on, so that helps. Any loud noise can do it, even if you do not have a history of being exposed to loud noises. The people who have always suffered from it for centuries have traditionally been soldiers, particularly those who serve in Artillery branches and as gunnery instructors. Wearing plugs when playing in live or LOUD situations is definitely recommended. Ever since I've had it I've noticed that I find very high piched noises extremely annoying, especially if they are repetitive. Valentino | ||
| lembic76450
Member Username: lembic76450 Post Number: 76 Registered: 5-2002 |
4u2nv, Great post, truly a subject that we should all be aware of. No need to shoot the tv though, the high pitch is just a leaking capacitor. Val, like you my hearing showed a 12db dip at 4000hz. Any loud noise can cause it , jack hammers, table saws, and as my sister-in-law found out, sculptors are prone to it too. She had to switch to a different art form. At least we still have our Alembics. Turn it down and think hi-fi. Kenn | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2004 |
I noticed that I had unusually sensitive hearing when I was in my early teens. After loud concerts my ears would be ringing up to two days later. At the time I was reluctant to wear earplugs when doubling up on vocals. Again, cymbals were sometimes more than my threshold for pain could handle. I was lucky to have a mother who worked for a very good ENT whose roster of clients included Roger Daltry. At 14-15 I already had a dip in my upper-mid range. The audiologist cast some molds & made me some Westone plugs with 15db & 25db attenuating cylinders~ excellent investment but Im still uncomfortable singing with them... As Im approaching 30, I notice my hearing as a whole deteriorating. I operate heavy machinery & scrap metal sometimes at my day job & that has taken it's toll (I'll even have audio hallucinations after an hour or two of hammering). The things that really upset me are being unable to focus on distant sound sources over moderate background noise (radio, dishwasher, AC, etc etc). The only comfort I find is in surrounding myself with people far worse than me. We sometimes hook up the freq generator at the shop and Im happy to know that I can still hear 17k (my boss cant hear above 13k and he's the main mix engineer!!!!)..... -Mike | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1159 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike; 15s and 25s are what I have as well. | ||
| andrewknight
Junior Username: andrewknight Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2004 |
My hearing was fine until I read this thread ;-) Thanks a lot! just kidding | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2002 |
No experience out in the field with these myself, but would not an in-ear monitoring system act much like a plug when it comes to loud volume? Provided you keep the volume low on the in-ear monitors, that is ... They may even be helpful if you can't sing with simple plugs, though you will probably hear your own singing better than before (so good luck with that). I think JE once commented how Roger Daltrey and Pete Townsend had their ears cleaned out from time to time, and how they had grown practically deaf - he never had his ears cleaned and his hearing was much better than theirs. Or so he said. Now about the effects of shooting on hearing, I read a book on the history of the Steinway factory. Like most immigrants in the US, the Germans kept up their favourite pastimes: daily visits to the gun club and all-day beer drinking. As a person will notice less pain when intoxicated or drunk, the noise from the shooting would not have bothered them much. Add to that the very noisy steel processing and loud hammering going on at the Steinway factory, and you basically have the reason why the design of the pianos changed over the years to increase the brightness - the designer was compensating for his loss of hearing. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 668 Registered: 3-2004 |
Adriaan- I'm not sure about in-ear monitors. They may protect on one hand and be dangerous on another. My mother was a police dispatcher for 20 years and was forced to retire on disability because of hearing loss caused by the headsets she wore to do her job. I would think that a speaker sealed into your ear would have a great capacity to create sound pressure that couldn't be dissipated before getting to the delicate bits. Of course, I've never used in-ear monitors, nor I have I seen any studies of how they impact hearing. I just have this concern based upon my mother's experience. I don't mean to be alarmist, but it seems something worth checking into. -Bob | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 669 Registered: 3-2004 |
Adriaan- I'm not sure about in-ear monitors. They may protect on one hand and be dangerous on another. My mother was a police dispatcher for 20 years and was forced to retire on disability because of hearing loss caused by the headsets she wore to do her job. I would think that a speaker sealed into your ear would have a great capacity to create sound pressure that couldn't be dissipated before getting to the delicate bits. Of course, I've never used in-ear monitors, nor I have I seen any studies of how they impact hearing. I just have this concern based upon my mother's experience. I don't mean to be alarmist, but it seems something worth checking into. -Bob | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 445 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bob - Couldn't agree with you more, like I said: "Provided you keep the volume low on the in-ear monitors, that is ..." | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2004 |
>>>>and you basically have the reason why the design of the pianos changed over the years to increase the brightness - the designer was compensating for his loss of hearing.<<<<< I guess that's the same reason I threw out my Fender & switched to a neck through Alembic!!!!  I think it's the Basilar Membrane in the human ear which preceeds the Cochlea & acts as a buffer, protecting the inner ear from high SPLs before they are actually perceived.... The only problem is that after you have a few drinks, it's response time is delayed~ thus you do more damage to your hearing when listening to loud music (or firing guns) drunk... go figure! I have yet to try in-ear monitors, but Ive been warned against them by several people. Ive been told that having a moderate SPL source that close to your ear drum is bad, bad bad. Plus, there is always the possibility of the soundman forgetting that the mix is pre-fader thus sending you a barrage of crackles & pops by mistake. | ||
| wideload
Member Username: wideload Post Number: 75 Registered: 6-2003 |
I finally went to in-ears 6 months ago, and I know I have them alot quieter than the sound in the room. I'm getting used to the clean, pure sound of my Alembic, unmolested by amp and speaker colorations. I do miss my pantlegs flapping, though! Larry | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2003 |
In one of the bands I play we're having volume issues. I have been using two 18" folded horn cabinets with 600 watts apiece and I have trouble hearing the bass over a 50 watt Leslie cabinet on the other side of the stage. Earplugs so far only make the Leslie seem that much louder. I don't know what's going on, but something's gotta give while I've still got ears. BTW, I've recently taken up target shooting with everything from a .22 to an 8mm Mauser to a Colt 1911, and the earplugs I picked up from the tool department of the local farm-supply store (yellow pointy things on a blue adjustable plastic band which sits on the back of my neck) work very, very well, but too well to use for music. John | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 670 Registered: 3-2004 |
John- If you're new to shooting, be aware that most competitive traget shooters wear double ear protection. In-ear plugs are combined with the big ear-covering insulators for more protection. Note, also, that the latter are available with electronic cutoff circuits that will allow normal noises through (like conversation) and block harmful ones (like gunshots). With respect to your sound problem, I'd look to your choice of speakers. There's been recent talk about Schroeder cabinets and how they improve cut-through of the bass. Smaller drivers pointed at your head will probably help you hear yourself better. I believe you have to get a fair bit away from the 18s before the sound comes together. That kind of tone is a double-edged sword, because you don't hear it well standing close, but it can overwhelm your bandmate across the stage, so he turns his amp up louder. If you just love the way the 18s sound to the audience, then you might want to try adding a small bass monitor system to your package. Heck, you'r already carrying 2 18s, what's another cabinet? Something with 10(s) or 12(s) that can point at your head and cut through without having a major affect on what the audience hears. Otherwise, you might look at replacing one of your 18s with a cabinet based on 10s or 12s. There's a lot of great stuff out there right now, and a cabinet with smaller drivers stacked on top of the 1x18 should make a difference for you. | ||
| pace
Intermediate Member Username: pace Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2004 |
It might be worth investing in some molded plugs w/ replacable filters, John. While they're not perfect, they definitley provide a more even cut across the spectrum then foam or tissue. Im assuming that the high frequency horns on the Leslie are what's still coming through, while the foam plugs are attenuating more of your lower frequencies than you want?!?!... The only other thing I would double check is the polarity of your cabs compared to the rest of the band. -Mike | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 348 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bob, Good advice, all. I typically stand 15 feet or so from the 18's, so I should hear them pretty well. I CAN feel them. The keyboard player can't hear me on his side of the stage, because the guitar (which I can't even hear from my side) is too loud, or so he says. I have tried using an Ampeg 410, a front-loaded 18, a 412 and a Peavey 115BW floor monitor up close and pointed at my head with varying degrees of success. The floor monitor worked best. I'm not too loud out front (which I find hard to believe, but people I trust tell me it's so), and I know that my rig is in fact making power and moving air. I think it's an issue of one or two people (out of 5) simply not being comfortable playing at a listenable volume. They also are the least experienced and weakest musically, which both tend to lead to that sort of thing. They also don't think our overall stage volume is a problem. I'm considering running direct-only at our next gig, to give the P.A. owner/operator a vested interest in getting the levels under control. Good idea? Bad idea? John | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 349 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mike, I've got a pair of plugs with the aluminum baffle inserts, but can't keep them in my ears for more that 30 seconds or so. The foam plugs might be doing what you say, so I'll experiment. I check the polarity of my cabs against the P.A. at every gig and I have a phase-reverse switch to mitigate the seemingly inevitable dead spot. My preference is to keep my stage volume low and listen to the bass primarily from the mains, but with this particular group I can't even hear the mains.. John | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 574 Registered: 11-2003 |
John, It seems an undeniable given that the weaker they are musically, the louder they play...... I've never been able to figure that one out, but I know for a fact that it was true in my case, and it does seem all too common. Go figure huh? | ||
| davekoch
Junior Username: davekoch Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2003 |
ooops, I fat-fingered the post. Sorry (Message edited by davekoch on January 07, 2005) | ||
| davekoch
Junior Username: davekoch Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have it also. Dr. Andrew Weil says avoiding caffeine and salt may reduce it some. Relax the shoulders and neck through massage, meditation, etc. Ooooooooohms..... <gr> Our drummer had really bad ringing and his balance was also affected. I'm not sure if Tinittus and Meuničres are the same thing, or one leads to another, etc. At a Zappa show in the 70's, I once saw a drunk actually climb into a sub-woofer on stage and remain there for a few mintes before he was escorted out. Just a guess, but he may have a little ringy dingy now and again.... Dave | ||
| davr35
New Username: davr35 Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 |
I have a high end hearing loss also but i got mine from working around M1A1 tanks in the Army. I wear ear plugs and don't realy have a problem with ringing in my ears I'm not playing in a band any more but I still wear the plugs to pratice in my bedroom | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2004 |
I wear plugs always. I had custom molded Westones made with removable filters. I also keep extra sets of EARS in my cases. I had a set of Westone dual driver molded in ears made for when I start touring in earnest. I do sound a lot as well as playing in a very loud band. I also instruct marching band. I know I have some loss and occaisonally I get the high pitched whistle in the middle of the night so I cling protectively to what I have left. Dave I will try to take your advise on the salt and caffeine. Good to know, thanks. BTW my band's lead singer toured with Danzig in Samhain and got "T" real bad and had accupuncture for it. He swears by it. Danno |
