| Author | Message | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 425 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well, you all know that I am a die-hard John Entwistle fan. But what is this? Warwick is announcing the new Cruiser bass. A wanna-be Spyder? They are saying: "...with the full support of the JE estate...." It has a hollow mahogany body with a quilted maple or ziricote top. But who the hell decided to put such a headstock in it? OK, this is my personal opinion, but this is really far away from the true spirit. I am glad to own two of the original Spyders...... Oliver (Spyderman)  | ||
| eastcoastepic
Intermediate Member Username: eastcoastepic Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2003 |
Once again, it's all about the money. Warwick makes, the estate makes, the dealer makes. This bass does not look like any Alembic or Warwick that John had played in his great career. It looks like a Guitar Center special that would appeal to the budget of the masses, but upon closer inspection, it seems that it is one of the most expensive Warwick basses that you can buy. I am a little surprised that they would go this route, given their history of quality instruments, but business is business, and any new design will generate considerable interest in the industry. Gee whiz, give me an authentic headstock if you're going to charge me all that money............. Ollie, thanks for keeping the spirit alive.... Chris | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2004 |
What if they put a Fender bolt on neck on it? That headstock clashes with history. Like other companies will there be a Euro, Korea, Japan and China model? Inquiring minds want to know. Not really when I think about it. I don't want to know. Stay strong Oliver. Danno | ||
| byoung
Junior Username: byoung Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2004 |
It's just pretty much that nasty thing that marketing droids call branding. The Warwick headstock makes it a dead giveaway that the bass is a Warwick-- authenticity is less important to Warwick than having the bass be immediately recognizable as a Warwick. I'm not saying you have to like it, but I can understand their motivation (I don't really like the look of it). Brad PS- I don't speak for Warwick, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em. | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 223 Registered: 3-2004 |
I took Chris's lead and checked the price of it. Over $5000.00! I foresee a RockBass version for GC and Ash. Danno | ||
| beelee
Member Username: beelee Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2004 |
Nothing personal against Warwick but, I feel its in poor taste, there is only one Spyder bass and its made by Alembic.......I don't like the look of it either, I wouldn't buy one out of respect to JE and Alembic. If I wanted a copy of an Alembic, I would have kept my Ibanez Musician basses as well as the Ibanez Destroyer II I had ( looked like a Spyder with a nicer headstock shape than the Warwick), but there's nothing like the real thing......an Alembic Hey Oliver, I'm curious who originally made the Buzzard bass......Status or Warwick ? tho I haven't had the chance to try either one I like the Status design. Bruce (Message edited by beelee on March 06, 2005) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1945 Registered: 9-2002 |
Bruce, I CAN be wrong -and I am a lot of times- but I THINK it was Warwick who made the first "Buzzard" style bass. Though I don't know if JE ever played one. Paul TBO | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 427 Registered: 7-2003 |
Bruce, Paul, Paul is right. Warwick produced the first Buzzards after Johns design. He played them for some years and then had problems with the necks. Then he had some Warwicks fitted with graphite necks resp. thereafter a small couple of Modulus graphite necked Buzzards. And then there came the Status Buzzs. As for the cruiser, I donīt like the design. It is only a bad copy of the originals including the JE Tribute Spyders from last year. As for Warwick, I do own a Warwick Buzzard Limited with serial number 3 but I am willing to sell it. Main reasons: the neck is thick like a hockey stick and there is no possibility to get the strings nearly as low as on my Spyders..... I would rather stick onto a Dragon Wing..... (I know guys that I once spoke about a DW Cocobolo at BC. I let this go and rather I am currently investigating with BC and Susan on a DW with Birds Eye Maple top and back.....) Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| hb3
Junior Username: hb3 Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2005 |
warwicks blow...at least they have for quite some time. | ||
| jacko
Intermediate Member Username: jacko Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2002 |
In this months (UK) Bass Player magax=zine, they have a tour of the Warwick factory. From an Alembic Players point of view, it's quite a scary article discussing how everything is computer controlled with photos of hundreds of bodys lined up waiting for a computer to fit parts. the funniest thing is that in the article, Warwick claim to be a custom shop. At 600 completed basses a month, even the article's writer has to take issue. I wonder if Alembic manage 600 a year. graeme | ||
| hb3
Junior Username: hb3 Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2005 |
"warwicks -- high action, poorly balanced, overpriced...buy one today!" | ||
| jacko
Intermediate Member Username: jacko Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2002 |
N0 thanks! graeme | ||
| hb3
Junior Username: hb3 Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2005 |
it would be interesting to know how many alembics they were producing when they had the guitar center deal...unfortunately, we probably never will know... | ||
| stoney
Advanced Member Username: stoney Post Number: 371 Registered: 7-2002 |
Well, it kind of resembles John .....in a Jack Bruce sort of way!!!! | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hmm. Interesting thread. I just recently saw a photo of one of these basses and thought wow, cool! But the photo didn't show the headstock, and there was no mention of the price. After seeing the bass with headstock, I cringed. I understand Warwick wanting to make the bass recognisable, but that really sucks from the point of view of aesthetics. Also the price is ridiculous if that's correct (although maybe over here in Europe they'll be cheaper, relatively speaking). I would buy an Alembic in a heartbeat before that. However I don't agree with the "Warwick bashing" comments. I currently own a Dolphin Pro 1 thru-neck, and its a marvellous bass, one of the best I've ever owned. The only thing I would consider selling it for would be another thru-neck Alembic (and even then it would have to be special, for instance another Triple O). I've previously owned another, and also a Dolphin Pro 2 bolt on and a Streamer Stage 1 thru neck. They've all been fabulous basses, in fact the Pro 2 was bought in preference (dare I say it) to an Alembic Epic I tried in a side by side comparison. They are not Alembics, they are different animals; some prefer them, some don't, some like both. For me they do different jobs, and I can't duplicate the sounds of either with the other. I think the problem I have with Warwicks is that many people's experience of them is via large outlet stores where the action hasn't been touched, rendering them unplayable(I have had SO many experiences of picking one up and being completely unable to play it). If shops took more care and got them playing at least in the ballpark then people might be surprised. The action on my Dolphin is around 2/32 on the 12th fret E string, so its pretty low, and it plays great (though not as well as my Triple O). However most Warwicks in stores have the worst set ups (in terms of high action at least) that I've ever seen. Why?????? | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2003 |
As a Spyder owner, I have to agree with the opinion of most here (and especially Ollie) - I too don't like the Warwick Cruiser. Nor do I like the Gibson Explorer-type basses Gibson made in the 80's. For me, John Entwistle played Alembic basses, and anything that attempts to copy them is just that - a copy. Does this make the Warwick a bad bass? Not necessarily. I wouldn't buy it, but someone else might. It's all personal taste, anyway. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't buy a Warwick if I could get one for a dollar. I've never played one I thought was worth a damn - horrible set ups, lousy tone, and the necks are like tree trunks to me. I do know that there are those that play them happily. To each his/her own as they say. I think the biggest knock on the Warwick will be its price. 5K? For that? I don't think so. My Spyder, Europa, and Dragon's Wing each cost close to that, and they are, IMHO, vastly superior to anything that Warwick makes or could make. I wouldn't waste my money on one - I'd go buy the real thing if I were going to spend that kind of cash. Bill notes that he's played Warwicks in large outlet stores that were horribly set up, and I too have experienced the same thing. This is why I avoid places like Guitar Center and Sam Ash - they're there to make money, and little else. Want that new Strat set up? Sure, no problem. Give it to some young kid who may or may not know anything about set ups. See him wield the allen wrench. See him adjust the truss rod, without knowing what it actually does. See him hand it back to you, playing worse than it was when you handed it to him. If Warwick were truly concerned about the playability of their instruments in stores, they'd do business only with those purveyors who represented them properly. As it is, they leave their reputation in the hands of sales personnel who may or may not know how to set an instrument up, how to adjust it, etc. It's no wonder, then, that so many who have commented in this thread had and continue to have negative experiences with Warwick basses, wherever they are sold. Me? I'm sticking with Alembic. My two cents, Alan | ||
| 88persuader
Intermediate Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2004 |
Well I have to agree with Bigbadbill's comments about Warwick bashing. You need to put things into prospective including PRICE. I would NEVER put a Warwick up against an Alembic in regard to sound or build quality ... but then again you can get MOST Warwicks in most stores for around a grand. You can't touch the lowest priced brand new Alembic for that price unless you're very lucky. Before becoming an Alembic nut i played Warwicks and loved them. I had a Corvette 5 string pro and a Corvette 4 string fretless Standard and thought (and still think) for the money they're hard to beat. When you think Warwick you really should compair them to other same priced basses ... Fender, Ibanez, guitar center type basses. If you do that I think most people would agree they are a far cry better than most of the models offered by other mid to low priced guitar companies. In regards to a $5000 Warwick i have to agree it seems real pricy! I'd have to play one for a while before having an honest opinion of it's worth. But then again a few years ago I thought anyone would be crazy to buy a $5000 Alembic ... that was until I played one! I have no idea if the $5000 Warwick is worth the price but I definitely feel the $1000 to $2000 Warwicks are. PLUS .... Alembics are simply the best basses you can get ... but you PAY for what you get. There's no need to bash lower end basses. Not everyone can afford Alembics plus we've all used lower end basses and loved them on our road up the ladder. And I made just as much good music and MONEY playing my Warwicks and other lower end basses as i do with my Alembics. I just SMILE a lot more playing when I play my Alembics! And most people partying in clubs don't know an Alembic from a Dean ... and don't care. But occasionally you'll see a fellow bass player in the crowd with his jaw on the ground drooling ... HE (or she) knows! | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1948 Registered: 9-2002 |
Most of the Warwicks I tried sounded ok though I could'nt handle the neck dimensions. Even for a 4 string bass. I KNOW it is a habit but I had base-ballbat reflections. PTBO | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have to agree that the current Warwicks all seem to have large necks; why I don't know. But this wasn't always the case. My Dolphin has one of the largest of the old style necks, but it's still not as big as the current ones (it's a 96). My Streamer (a 92 I think) had quite a slim neck, and my Dolphin bolt-on had possibly the thinnest neck of any bass I've ever owned,much thinner than either of my Alembics, although with more of a Jazz bass style taper. And they're easy enough to set up; also some things about them are obviously Alembic influenced (adjustable nut -formerly brass like on mine - and sustain block). With regards to pricing, my Dolphin cost Ģ750UK used; a new one (though no longer quite the same spec as mine) would cost about the same as a new Epic in the UK. Bear in mind this is a thru-neck, exotic wood, heavily contoured instrument. I do realis e One thing bothers me though. Although I wholeheartedly condone being passionate about your favourite marque (or favourite anything for that matter), I've always found it strange that people feel the need to criticise other makes almost as a matter of principal (although I'm not saying that's what is happening here). I've never understood the "if it isn't (insert make as appropriate) it isn't worth a damn" mentality. I love Alembics more than any other bass (although I'm also passionate about Rickenbacker), and my Triple O is the best bass I've ever owned or played, but I really like Mike Pedullas basses too, and Martin Petersen's Sei basses, and Jaydee, and many others. Crucially, I would be VERY reluctant to label something I personally don't like or get on with as not worthwhile (we all know where that can lead). I recently had to defend Alembic basses at some length on another Forum; someone had posted saying that they were inferior instruments (and yes they had played them)which is patently absurd. You'll be pleased to know I put them straight! However if they had just said they were not to their taste, then that's fine, I have no problem with that. In Warwick's case, bear in mind the Ox (one of my all time favourite players) went FROM Alembic TO Warwick, so to imply they are not quality instruments seems rather strange (although it's the reverse of the route I would've taken!); it would certainly appear that John felt they were a quality instrument, as have players like Jack Bruce and Stuart Zender. Speaking for myself, I have personally never got on with Fender Jazz basses; I have never found one that I liked, could play, or could get a decent sound out of. But to dismiss them as invalid would be preposterous, given that they have been the favourite bass of such legends as Marcus Miller and Jaco, players I couldn't even begin to compare myself to. Personally I think the jump from "I don't like it" to "it is therefore bad" or "it therefore has no value" is a very large and dangerous one. As Alan says, each to their own. (BTW, soapbox aside, I really do wish they'd set them up properly though!) | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2003 |
Er, ignore the "I do realise" bit, that was even more waffle that I thought I'd got rid of ...oh, and I still really don't like that headstock!!!!! | ||
| hb3
Junior Username: hb3 Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 |
I understand earlier -- non-mass-produced -- warwicks are an entirely different animal. I should've clarified that, but I stick by my evaluation, based on the high-end thumb basses currently offered, which aren't cheap: $2700 or so as I recall. You can get a much better instrument for a lot less money, IMO. Me personally, I LIKE the headstock...I've tried to talk myself into buying a thumb bass on numerous occasions, because I happen to like the way I look. But then I strap the thing on and think, God, you're kidding... The comments about set-ups in GC are right on. I don't think I've ever played a properly set up bass off the rack in GC -- just the opposite. The only time I go into those places is because the guy who smog checks my van is across the street! Denny's, Guitar Center...it's all of a piece. | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2003 |
I find that in almost every high street guitar shop in the UK these to be honest. Most of my basses I buy used anyway; obviously with my Alembic I kind of figured it would have a pretty good set-up coming straight from the factory  . If I was buying anything else new I would tend to go to a specialist shop such as the Bass Gallery, where Martin will set up to taste (and I very much trust his work). Got to say based on experience the Thumb is probably my least favourite high-end Warwick anyway, although I have played a couple of very good older ones, including a wonderful 6 string that was unfortunately monumentally heavy. And the newer ovangkol necks aren't to my taste either; I feel the wenge "spoke" much better, was crisper and more articulate. I should also clarify that I'm happy with the headstock on other Warwicks, just not the one above. Oh,one other thing,it's probably true to say you can get an Alembic thru-neck for a lot less in the US than in the UK, and Warwick may (?) be more expensive in the US than here, so the pricing would therefore be much closer for you guys. But still, my Dolphin is a useful tool with a unique tone, and I like it a great deal (the only thing I'd change is the weight; I wish it was lighter). However if anyone has a Triple O they want to swap... | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2003 |
(Message edited by ajdover on March 11, 2005) | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2003 |
I don't think folks are "Warwick bashing" as Shaun notes as much as displaying the passion that most of us here feel for our Alembics. I own 15 basses of different makes, ranging from a $400 Japanese made Fender Jazz, to my Alembics. I have three Gibsons (well, two for now - a '77 RD77 Artist is enroute to my house), three Fenders, three Alembics, a Pedulla, a Peavey, a Rickenbacker, a Musicman, an Ovation, and a Godin. All appeal to me in one fashion or another. However, I think I can honestly say based on experience that Alembics are the finest instruments I've ever owned or played, bar none. Each of my basses have their strong and weak points, but I find that the Alembics have far fewer weak points than the others I own. All of us, I think, like different instruments for different reasons, and this applies to me as well. However, if I were on a desert island and I could have only one instrument, my choice would unhesitatingly be an Alembic. Expensive doesn't necessarily mean good, nor does inexpensive mean bad. But I think that generally, one gets what one pays for. A used Epic or Essence that goes for $1500, say, is, IMHO infinitely superior quality-wise compared to a Fender, Warwick, etc. of the same price. Tone, playability, comfort, affordability etc. are also factors in one's choice of instrument, but I think the Alembic wins hands down every time quality-wise. If one is fortunate enough to be able to afford an Alembic, Pedulla, Fodera, etc., that's great. If not, there are other basses while not as finely crafted will fit the bill nicely. Again, it is all personal preference and financial werewithal. Alan | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 452 Registered: 1-2004 |
There are more opinions about bass guitars than people who play them. It makes this world just a bit more exciting. I happen to like Warwicks, but I don't think I will ever buy one. But many people love Warwicks and have several fine specimens in their collection. IMHO Warwick shouldn't be compared to Alembic in the way that has happened in this thread. Playing in a different league doesn't automatically make you a bad player. We all love our Alembics, but many of us will recognise the frustration of someone bashing Alembics for being too expensive, to sterile sounding, too heavy, too fancy looking, too much knobs etc. etc. on the internet or in real life. We have all thought: "They don't know what they're talking about, if only they knew what they are missing". On the other hand few people here would appreciate it if Alembics would pop up on every streetcorner, every shop and every stage around the world! Alembics coming from Indonesia, China, Japan, Mexico and several series from the USA to fit every player and budget you could think of? No thanks! Alembic is a permanent member of the Champions League, but luckily they're not the only player and luckily it's not the only league. And we shouldn't forget that without any competition the constant stream of progression, creativity and top quality instruments coming from Santa Rosa would inevitably dry out. Therefore we must be careful about expressing a strong opinion about other people's (or maker's) instruments. Don't get me wrong, this is the Alembic Club. We are allowed to be a bit prejudiced & very enthousiastic about our instruments, but we shouldn't consider ourselves members of an elite group of people simply because we love Alembics and are lucky enough to be able to affort them. And believe it or not, there are other, equally great luthiers out there. My Benavente has made that perfectly clear to me. But I'm not yet tempted to state that my Alembic Orion is better than the Benavente or vise versa. Why try to make a comparison that really can't be made at all? I'm very lucky to own two great instruments that couldn't be more different from eachother! Just my $0.02... Regards, Wilfred | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wilfred, well said. That, I think, was really the point I was trying to make. Vive le difference! (Just wish I had a few more different Alembics....) | ||
| hb3
Junior Username: hb3 Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2005 |
oh, you guys are way, way too reasonable.... | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2003 |
LOL!!!!Try telling that to my missus!!! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 519 Registered: 6-2002 |
More detailed pictures from Bass Northwest - this is definitely the closest that Warwick have come to plagiarizing Alembic: http://www.bassnw.com/New%20Exotic%20%20Basses/warwick_cruiser_4_st_ziricote.htm | ||
| jacko
Intermediate Member Username: jacko Post Number: 136 Registered: 10-2002 |
even down to the walnut? pinstripes in the neck. and oval MoP fingerboard inlays. graeme | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 521 Registered: 6-2002 |
Plus a maple neck and mahogany core, which is a strange combo for Warwicks. And then the maple pinstripes under the top and the back ... But how come they can't even manage to make the backplate flush with the surface? MSPR $5599.00 - that's a lot of money. So I wonder how much a ziricote top+back Exploiter-shaped Essence would cost - Quote - so that's an MSRP of 8900 USD. Well, okay that price includes 3300 for the ziricote (no idea why the back laminate is 300 USD more than the top laminate). And did you see the "deluxe Warwick gigbag" in the back-ground? So you spend 5599 on an awkwardly shaped bass and you stick it in a gigbag ... (Message edited by davehouck on March 16, 2005) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 1496 Registered: 5-2002 |
Adriaan, I hope you don't mind. While the link you posted was itself quite descriptive, it was a bit wide, causing quite a bit of scrolling. So I shortened it a little. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 522 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave, No problem. I tried to edit for the same reason, and saw the "fake hyperlink" with the whole URL, a comma and then the whole URL once more. In a regular hyperlink, the first item would be the "display" title, so I tried replacing that - but unfortunately it still came out showing the whole URL. Not sure how you did it, but thanks! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 523 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave, Did I manage to ruin your URL? Aargh, I honestly wasn't trying to. Here's a shorter one: Quote Addrian, I couldn't get your shorter one to work; so I fixed my original edited version and replaced your shorter one with the edited version as well. You didn't mess up my first one, I just made an error in formatting. I hope that we haven't completely confused anyone who may have been trying to actually click on one of these links! (Message edited by davehouck on March 16, 2005) |
