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glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 991
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 3:08 am:   Edit Post

The 1968 to 1977 era of the GD is without a doubt my favorite, and what I listen to 90% of the time when I put any GD music on.

One thing that I've noticed from recordings in this era compared to the later eras is how prominent and upfront in the mix Phils bass is...Much of the time it sounds like he is in front of or just slightly behind Jerry in the mix...

For those who attended shows in that era, is Phils level how it sounded in the venue?
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 5653
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 7:49 am:   Edit Post

I wouldn't say Phil was as prominent as Jerry, certainly not as loud. But you could easily hear him without straining. Heck, with "The Wall" you could hear everyone distinctly. The big difference, IMHO, was the character of Phil's tone. Back then, on his Alembic instruments, Phil's notes were clear and piano-like (duh!). In later years he seemed to be going almost for a sub-sonic tone that you felt rather than heard. I also preferred the early/mid 70's Phil tone. Bobby's too.

Bill, tgo
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3210
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 8:06 am:   Edit Post

Hello Greg ,
Yes __ The time frame" 1968-1977" that you mention, is also my favorite era of __"The Dead" . I was in attendance as a listener and fan in the early part and in the later part of that era also as an employee of concert promoter ; Mr Bill Graham.
I heard Phils live sound through various instrument and equipment changes. I think that your statement ;
"..Much of the time it sounds like he is in front of or just slightly behind Jerry in the mix... " , would be close to my perception. I remember at the "Sound Test" shows at the Cow Place , the low frequency resonance was clear to the ears and also capable of producing transmission through the concrete floor of the structure simultaneously ! It was AWESOME !!!____in simple terms ____ The in person visceral aspect was definitely a part of it _______.
5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member
Username: 5a_quilt_top

Post Number: 254
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post

+ 1 on early 70's Phil tone and Bobby tone.

IMO, Bobby nailed it with a 335 into a Twin Reverb.

Wish I could've seen some shows from that era.

When I saw the Dead in the late 70's and early 80's, their live mix was very close to the mix on their records - nothing stuck out as being abnormally loud or prominent in the mix, but everything was audible.

For one of these shows, I was seated fairly far from the stage and in the center of the mix. I remember saying to my friend that the sound was so clear it was like listening to the stereo in my living room.

It was quite different when I saw them in the early '90's at Giants Stadium - the mix was good, but dominated by rumbling low end from the bass & drums that seemed to be separated from the rest of the band. Phil's bass sound was physical, but not as distinct.
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 992
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post

So, this is a perfect example of what I am talking about..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMgO1TCBih4

Phils bass is really pretty far out in front of the mix...

For you guys that would have been at shows during this time period, is this how you recall it sounding ?
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3219
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 5:56 pm:   Edit Post

Greg ,
Like that ___and even more so at times . Sometimes he drove the improvisations and cleared the path with harmonic direction , clarity and structure, GO Phil !
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 993
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post

ooops...not the link i wanted to post. this was the one i was thinking of..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am0VgJdyAQA

as a side note, what an awesome era...However I find it strange that amongst my circle of friends, I am in the minority when it comes to favoring the 68-77 era. Most of the people I know who are into the GD favor the 80s, not that there is anything wrong with that of course..
mtjam
Intermediate Member
Username: mtjam

Post Number: 140
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 3:52 am:   Edit Post

I didn't see the Dead until 86 at RFK with Dylan and Tom Petty. Saw many shows between then and the end. Many great moments, especially in 89 and 90. Even though I didn't see them in the 70s, my favorite era is 72-74. Those Playin' space outs are the best! Can't get enough of that Boston Music Hall 12-2-73 Playin'/He's Gone/Truckin' sequence. Check it out!
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin

Post Number: 1713
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 5:07 pm:   Edit Post

I'm with you, when it comes to my favorite era. But 68-77 covers a lot of territory, sound wise. Up until at probably '71, most of Phil's sound was coming from his Fender/Sunn rig without PA support. At least, that's how it went down in places like the Fillmore. So, that would have been about 350 watts and 8 JBL 15s carrying the whole room. I can't imagine that it was as dominating at is was from the Wall on. But, I didn't see any shows prior to '76. I wouldn't say the shows I saw in the 70s had dominating bass. In fact, by the late 70s, it seemed like the bass was noticeably quieter than I would have liked. It was there if I listened for it, but it wasn't what I would call visceral. The clearest, biggest bass I heard, from '76-94, was outdoors in '88. Oxford Plains.
ed_too
Junior
Username: ed_too

Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 4:20 am:   Edit Post

Edwin - I'm with you on that. I saw them from '72 onward. Take the Boston Music Hall show that Rob noted in the post just above yours, for example (I was there celebrating my birthday - it doesn't get any better!). The part of Morning Dew that Phil plays the "pipe organ" the balcony shook and the legs of your pants would vibrate around the legs of your body. That's pushing a whole lot of air!
My recollection is that Phil was quieter in the mix after they returned from the hiatus after the wall of sound. IMO that is when some fans started to gather in what became known as the "Phil Zone" - in an attempt to get that visceral aspect.
5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member
Username: 5a_quilt_top

Post Number: 255
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 8:23 am:   Edit Post

That was my late 70's - early 80's recollection, as well. The bass was present, but not inordinately prominent in the mix.

Of course, I wouldn't have minded hearing a bit (or a lot) more...

And I just remembered this from a show I attended in the early 80's:

A group of fans were standing in by the stage in front of Phil holding a hand-made sign with "Thank God for Phil Lesh" written on it. I'm guessing that this was within the above-mentioned "Phil Zone"!
ed_too
Junior
Username: ed_too

Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 9:45 am:   Edit Post

"A group of fans were standing in by the stage in front of Phil holding a hand-made sign with "Thank God for Phil Lesh" written on it. I'm guessing that this was within the above-mentioned "Phil Zone"!"

Exactly
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 1665
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 7:16 pm:   Edit Post

Uptown Theater, Chicago; Dec. 5, 1979 - I was in the meazzanine. They're cooking along on "The Other One", and go through the line where, were Bobby singing, it would be "...that's when it all began" and, just kicking the downbeat, Phil hit this chord - no, that's wrong; I mean Phil hit this CHORD - and I swear to you, every molecule in the entire freakin' universe resonated!!!! Man, you should have felt that floor! Really, the last time I heard him loud enough.


Peter

(Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on February 14, 2014)
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 5657
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post

We called 'em "Phil Bombs"

Bill, tgo
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3224
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post

Yes , " Phil Bombs" ___ A Very effective dynamic tool as the explosive report at the top of the dynamic maximum quadruple forte (FFFF) of a crescendo ! __ cool stuff ! I like those alot _____

KABOOM __________! (lol)> with Low brass and tympani in a symphony within the mentation of a classical composer ___!!!!
jzstephan
Advanced Member
Username: jzstephan

Post Number: 228
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 8:52 am:   Edit Post

Not ffff, sffff (scrotissimo)
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3225
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

Scrotissimo ?? = LOL (laugh out loud) not musical dynamics marking ____

sfff=sforzando ! ffff=FORTISSISSISSIMO !!!!

http://www.music.vt.edu/MUSICDICTIONARY/appendix/dynamics/dynamics.html

(Message edited by sonicus on February 16, 2014)
jzstephan
Advanced Member
Username: jzstephan

Post Number: 229
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 9:41 am:   Edit Post

With balls
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3226
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post

Yes , With Balls! I got that ____ Das ist kool !!!! lol___ ___ ___

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