| Author | Message | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 1000 Registered: 9-2002 |
Had a request from the guitar player I play with, bass player from another band in the area apparently asked him to ask me if he could sit in on bass. Thoughts on this? The guy can play, no question about that..I've just always looked at asking if you can sit in to be a little presumptious, especially when I don't really know the guy all that well personally. I also want to distinguish between being invited and asking. I've invited people I know personally and whom I know who can play if they want to sit in, but have always found the whole asking to sit in thing to be a little rude..at least it's not something I would ever do... I ended up contacting the guy also to talk about what song he would be playing...this is the response I got when I asked if he'd be ok with sitting in on a particular tune... "I hear you don't want to learn it..lol. Yeah "xxx" is fine by me. You only giving me one? LOL" as far as the not wanting to learn it part goes, its not that i dont want to learn, its just that between the time the setlist was sent out and the date of the gig I am just not going to have a chance to over it. | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 184 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'm a bit hard in this area,I'm afraid. Nobody uses my Alembic or my amp and speaker - is he proposing to use your gear? If so, then I think that is a cheek! If not then use him as a deputy if you can't make a gig and see how he gets on - might be useful. I'd be suspicious as to his motives. Ask him if you can sit in in his band and wait for the reply!! Glynn | ||
| oddmetersam
Advanced Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 369 Registered: 7-2008 |
Hey, Greg! I would personally never ask a band if I could "sit in" -- especially at an actual gig. I've been invited (rarely!) to hang out at a rehearsal and maybe jam on one of their numbers but not to perform with them live; the real key being it should be an invitation extended by the entire band in the first place. Not the other way around. In my book, if that's the extent of his response to you as quoted, he sounds too cavalier and (as you already noted) presumptuous rather than grateful and humble. That's a red flag in and of itself. Finally, it's not worth burning bridges on the local scene, but it's also sub-optimal to establish a green light for similar requests in the future. I think I'd also sit down with my bandmates to make sure they are all clear on my thoughts on this. | ||
| mtjam
Advanced Member Username: mtjam Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2011 |
At one of my gigs, we were in the middle of our set when two guys walked in carrying their guitars. This was not an open mic night, mind you. We know the guys, but not well enough to invite them to jam with us. The more outspoken of the two asked if they could play during our break. We informed them that we were hired by the bar, so it was not our call to have intermission music. The guy persisted, and even threw $20 in our tip jar (thinking that would get them up there). The level of desperation was ridiculous. When the gig was over, they still tried to play. They were finally told by the bartender that they would not play! As we packed up, we found them strumming their acoustic guitars on the sidewalk in front of the bar. Ugh! I would never expect any band to let me sit in. If they ASK me to, that's another story. On the rare occasion I get out to see another band, I am there to support them, not grovel for my moment in the spotlight! There's my .02 on the subject. I love to jam with many musicians, but I don't expect them to make me a part of their show. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 384 Registered: 6-2012 |
+1 on loving to jam - but I sit in only if the band asks me and I do so only if all of the members are agreeable to it. I respect the fact that the band has been contracted or asked to play and are therefore professionals who are performing a service. To me, asking to sit in would be like barging uninvited into a meeting in my office or crashing a wedding or private party. Specific to your situation, I think it's rude of the individual to not ask you directly and then compound that by insulting you ("...you don't want to learn it...") and being greedy ("...only giving me one?"). If playing the material in question is critical to guarantee a successful performance by your band and you are, due to circumstances, unable to learn it, I'd consider letting him do it as a favor to your bandmates. Otherwise, his attitude indicates that he may have ulterior motives. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 82 Registered: 6-2014 |
Yeah, I have to go with the majority here... Emily Post didn't include bass player's etiquette, but this is an easy one. =) I would never ask to sit in with a band, and would only do it if I were asked to. And only then, provided it was cool with their regular guy. Chances are, I'd know him and we're friends. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5861 Registered: 7-2004 |
I heartily agree, sitting in should be something one is invited to do. That said, I must confess to one serious violation in my past. When I got married in 2001, a buddy of mine held the guitar chair in JGB, so we wound up with Melvin Seals and the guys (and girl singer) as our wedding band. I admit that I "volunteered" myself to sit in with them. However, I was the groom and I was paying them. When it came time for my showcase, I was admittedly a little nervous and intimidated. I looked over at Melvin, and he was giving me "the look". You know "the look". Heck, I've given it myself. He had no idea if I could play or sing, but there I was sitting in due to the circumstances. I played the opening riff for "The Weight", sang a few lines, then looked over at Melvin again, who was looking right back at me with a huge smile. I immediately relaxed and enjoyed my time with JGB. One high point of the wedding, at least for me, was when my lovely wife went over to Melvin during a break to thank him, and he said to her: "Your old man can really play". But absent an unusual situation like the above, sitting in should be by invitation only. Bill, tgo | ||
| slawie
Senior Member Username: slawie Post Number: 681 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bill I did the same thing at my sons wedding and also my daughters wedding. I paid for the bands and wanted to do a little tribute to my kids for their wedding celebrations. It went down really well on both occasions because there were quite a number of folks there that were unaware of my capabilities and have never been to any of my gigs. The crowd response was rather humbling. I have had one chap who asked to sit in as he was the old bass player from the last band I was in. The band leader said to him "You had your chance with this band! Go forth and multiply" (actually it was the colloquialism for the last part of the statement) Good to see the BL had my back on that occasion. I consider asking to sit in a musicians/performers faux pas. slawie | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 799 Registered: 9-2004 |
As far as the clubs we play in; I try to get everyone to show up at one of our gigs any way I can, and one of the good ways is to invite every musician and singer I know to come and sit in for a few tunes! It makes for a fun evening with some more variety and the bars and clubs like to see the warm bodies! For a corporate event, having someone go up that works for the company will guarantee that the crowd pays attention and has fun. It is a great marketing tool and you may need those folks in your band someday. I also am way more likely to go see a band with friends in it, if I can get up and play. However, never would I have a total stranger come up. If there is anyone well know in the crowd (famous local musician or singer), I always try to acknowledge them and get them to perform too. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 1325 Registered: 7-2003 |
I like to invite quality players and singers who I know to sit in - generally only for a song. I never do this in bigger venues or where I don't feel absolutely secure in our goodwill with management. We owe it to the folks who hire us to be the one who delivers the show. On the other hand, I've never said yes to anyone who asked to sit in, nor have I ever asked a band if I could sit in myself (notwithstanding Bill and Slawie's situations!). | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1789 Registered: 10-2006 |
My feelings, Greg? This guy is the drunk with the harp in the wrong key in the front row at every blues gig ever. Peter | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1316 Registered: 6-2006 |
Greg, I mirror what others say. (Peter- I know that guy!). A concern that popped into my head is the potential of a lack of integrity from your guitarist. Pardon me ass-u-ming, but it seems he should have said: "Greg, you know that new song, XXX? I really, REALLY, want to play it at our next show, I understand you won't be ready to play it by then. Do you mind if this other bassist sits in?" The whole situation as you describe it sounds shisty to me. Good luck! | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2104 Registered: 2-2005 |
What Paul said along with the other posts. Something doesn't seem quite right here. Keith | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 1093 Registered: 12-2004 |
when I sit in with cats my rule is to follow my ass...•••• your set list.... I came to jam dammit!!  | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1317 Registered: 6-2006 |
Keavin can sit in on any show that I play AND he can play my Distillate! :-D | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 1001 Registered: 9-2002 |
He will be using my rig, but not my bass. thanks for the replies...Glad Im not the only one who thought it was odd, especially since one of his posts just came across my facebook feed, claiming he will be sitting in for "a few" songs.. Really, I just can't imagine asking to sit in on someone elses gig. It's possible Im on my way to getting replaced I think as I don't see eye to eye with these guys in terms of gigs. They want to play anything that comes their way, no matter the distance even if its free (they recently wanted to play for free at a fest that had an entrance fee and was three hours away)...that type of stuff i just can't do As much as I enjoy playing, musicians and their egos/attitudes really just agitate me and based on what I know of him from his previous posts with bands he's pretty ego driven | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 185 Registered: 7-2007 |
I don't know what your rig is but you could mess around with all the settings just before he goes on (the more complex the better) so he gets a rubbish sound that he hasn't got time to correct. That said, I wouldn't lend my rig. Told you I was hard but gear is expensive and it takes a long time to get what we like. Glynn | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2105 Registered: 2-2005 |
Greg, Now that you've said it I'll give my full opinion. It sounds to me like the guy sitting in is a live audition. My gut tells me not everyone is in on it and the guitar player is trying to set up a "How about this guy" thing. If that is what's going on I don't have any respect for your band mates. IMO if they were decent folks they would be up front and say "Due to the gig situation we are looking for a new bassist". Keith | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1318 Registered: 6-2006 |
In addition to Keith's statement. Greg know this: you are not wrong by any means to demand a better gigging situation, I (and certainly many others here) have been down that path, been in THAT band, that plays nothing but free shows (anywhere!)and has ego issues . . . . Maybe take a break from it, clear your head and then start looking for other musical opportunities. Good Luck | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 1002 Registered: 9-2002 |
Still not sure what the deal was, but all I can say is never again unless it is someone I know personally and am good friends with, and I honestly really don't care if it makes me look like a ^$^& for saying no. I should have just flat out sound no from the start...The guy clearly wasn't happy with sitting in for one song, so ended up being there for three songs. Than theres the fact that he had six string, and kept overdriving either my amp or speakers when he would hit the low notes. Not sure if that can cause damage or not, but it didn't sound very healthy. @Paul...Yeah, don't really need a break. I have/had a good musical balance and get offers from other bands to play, and the money thing really isn't an issue for me until the gigs start getting further away (as in 40 minutes to an hour) from my home. I told them that for anything under 40 minutes away they can keep my share and just put it towards studio expenses. Its the things they want to play that are 1,2, or 3 hours away that I need reimbursement for. Those things just end up costing me way too much money | ||
| jcdlc72
Advanced Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 395 Registered: 11-2009 |
There is nothing I can really add to the topic, I heartly agree with everything that has been said here. I´ve been in that situation where someone unknown comes from the dark and says "Hey you guys sound really good, I will play some tunes with you" and I simply say: "No, pal, this is a rehearsed show -even if it is not- and we cannot allow changes to it". Then there´s the occasional guy that comes and goes "I wanna sing this or that tune, give me your guitar", who gets a blunt "NO" from myself, without any further word. I have seen - and suffered- one too many times all sort of accidents and mishaps in the middle of a performance, that I REALLY prefer to be seen a the ogre-like guy, rather than letting anyone screw my WORK. Of course, with a handful of acts I play with we DO invite other musicians we know, and they join us, not only for songs we perform, but in several cases we do know some of THEIR original tunes and act for a minute or two as their backup band. But that is very different from trying to "steal the show", which is what makes me think of this whole scenario. Now, if it was a Jam it would be a completely different situation (although I do think there applies some etiquette as well), but I try my best to NEVER let it happen on a gig. There go my 0,0002 parts of a cent... | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3598 Registered: 10-2002 |
Greg - a similar thing happened to me at the start of the year. The band's old bassist asked if he could sit in for a couple of numbers on a January gig - he'd use my rig but his own instrument. He had left the band early 2013 feeling burnt out but confided to me that he was missing playing. Cut to March and the singer and guitarist told me I was out due to "musical and personality differences". Lo and behold, their very next gig, the old guy was back in the band. The drummer contacted me to apologise for the rest of the band's behaviour and to let me know that they'd been rehearsing with the other guy for a few weeks before I'd got the heave ho and him wanting back in was the real reason for my departure. Still pisses me off that they couldn't have been honest. Graeme | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 1003 Registered: 9-2002 |
That sucks Graeme... I would have told those guys to choke on a bag of dicks... I'm still waiting on the fallout from this, and am still not sure if this was a live audition or not but I sent an email to the two guitar players who invited him that going forward under no circumstances will anyone be sitting in on my stuff again unless it is someone i am personally good friends with. Honestly, it takes A LOT of balls (or just plain ignorance) to invite a musician up to sit in on another band members spot, and I've had people who I know are good players ask if they can sit in on whatever band I am playing in at the moment and my response is always "you need to ask them yourself, it is not my call". FWIW, I really don't get the whole "can i sit in?" mentality. I've never asked to sit in with anyone, and while I've been offered the chance to sit in I've always declined for a couple of reasons. First off, if i am out listening to a band Im there to enjoy listening to live music, not to whore myself out, and secondly I simply don't want to interrupt the continuity of the bands show. Only exception to all of this is if it is an open jam. As for the guy who I had to deal with Friday night, he also had a significant attitude also when I shot him down on a couple of the songs he wanted to play...incredible. musicians...can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. | ||
| murray
Intermediate Member Username: murray Post Number: 190 Registered: 7-2007 |
I agree especially the bit about 'when I'm out listening....' I enjoy watching and am always complimentary to other bass players (if appropriate) and try to help them by telling them if their sound is good out front - it needs diplomacy or better still no comment if the sound is bad!! Hope your gear survived. Glynn | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3710 Registered: 5-2009 |
I remember one time that I had been hired as a substitute by the frontman in a band for one gig in a group where the bass player could not make it . All of a sudden that bass player shows up during the last 20 minutes of the final set and just gets up on the stage and tells me " let me finish on the last 20 minutes and last tune" . NEXT he just puts his hand on the neck of my bass before I even respond to his request! I noticed that he had many rings on the fingers of both of his hands, a chain around his neck and a large belt buckle. My response was " OK ___take off all of your rings , your chain around your neck and all of your rings and your belt with that buckle before you handle my bass " I said it in a low tone of voice and with a large smile on my face . Next with his eyes in disbelief of what he had just heard me say, he just threw his hands up in the air ,turned around and walked away off the stage. _____Needless to say, I was never called back for that sub job but that moment was priceless indeed , indeed ! ... ... ... | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5868 Registered: 7-2004 |
Great story, Wolf. If the guy was really about music rather than image, one would think he would understand your more than reasonable request and remove the hardware, no problem. And when I have been invited to sit in, it has always been in addition to the other guitar player(s). I've never replaced a band member in that no one has ever left the stage to make a spot for me. Of course this usually works better for guitarists than for bassists. (unless the band is playing Spinal Tap's "Big Bottom" lol). Bill, tgo |
