| Author | Message | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2123 Registered: 5-2002 |
In the ongoing challenge of making sense of the cabling in my rack, I would like to replace a couple of the AC power cords that came with some of the rack components with much shorter cables. In my initial research I have found that AC power cords come in both shielded and non-shielded versions. For this application, is there a difference? Also, initially I'll probably just replace cables that have plugs on both ends. But I'm thinking it might be a good idea to replace some of the cables that connect inside the components. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? Since I have no soldering skills to speak of, should I get someone else to do the work? Thanks. | ||
| tbrannon
Junior Username: tbrannon Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 |
Dave, I have a "moderate" amount of soldering experience. I've built my own crossovers in the past and have repaired a few cheapy amps. So take my advice with a grain of salt. You might consider using a salt lick if you have one of those handy. In terms of shielded vs- non shielded, I would always lean towards the shielded versions. Especially if you are going to have audio cables running in and amongst the AC cables. The likelyhood of you getting any interference or feedback from them is almost nil, but why take the chance? Especially when the cost difference between the two is almost negligable. In terms of do-ability, it's not rocket science. I would recommend taking apart something and working on it. Find an old broken down VCR or something and start your frankenstein projects on that. I would obviously NOT recommend trying your hand on your bass rig straight out of the gate. Wreck a few old VCR's to learn the tricks and I think you'll find that the process is relatively simple. If you can figure out the controls on a Series I or II bass and then run them through a pre-amp....tone shape and all that, I don't think you'll have much of a problem soldering an AC cable. Good luck. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2127 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Tobin; so far I haven't found shielded cables with connectors on both ends that are short enough. But I'll keep looking. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 918 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave, I'm assuming you're talking about IEC modular connector detachable power cords? As an old audiophile, I can tell you mostly all hi-end hi-fi uses 'em. Personally, if you're looking for the ultimate quality, I'd try audiophile sources. They have ultra-high quality stuff, with the commesurate ultra-high prices to match. Seriously, there are all price levels and the stuff is all high quality. Monster, AudioQuest, Cardas, MIT, Straight Wire, PS Audio, Kimber, etc. all make great stuff. Try audioadvisor.com and try all the above manufacturer's websites listed above. I'd also recommend a power conditioner, especially one with an isolation transformer and voltage correction for the cleanest sound possible. While it's not for rack usage, I tried my roomy's old Tice Power Block power conditioner w/iso. xfmr and voltage correction on my Eden WT-550 w 2-D2210XST cabs bass rig and you would not believe what it did for the noise floor and bass extension! Good hunting! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2129 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Kevin, I'll definitely check your suggestions. My primary goal is to clean up the rats nest of cables in the back of the rack. But since completely changing my signal path a few days ago, I am getting noise from time to time that may be the interplay of the various signal cables with power cables. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2130 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; I just looked at audioadvisor.com, and that is significantly more than I need to spend for a power cable!!! | ||
| jet_powers
Advanced Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 225 Registered: 2-2003 |
I had a rat's nest in the back of my rack too. Being cheap and lazy, I got some cable ties, coiled up like cables and wrapped them together. Perhaps not the best wire management ever but it ony took a few moments and I was back to playing... JP | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 919 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave, Understood. Nothing in the audiophile world is cheap...just varying degrees of expensive, LOL! I've been hemming and hawing over cabling for my guitar and bass rigs for some time now. It's hard to justify spending more on cables then you've spent on some instruments and/or amp rigs. Hell, the pricing of cabling for my (now) 10-yr old $10k hi-fi rig made me cry the blues, LOL! Even considering the "Law Of Diminishing Returns", i.e., monetary outlay increases geometrically as sonic improvement increases infinitessimally (LOL!), proper cables can make or break a system sonically. | ||
| gare
Advanced Member Username: gare Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dave You may also want to checkout electronic component places too, like Mouser or Newark, etc.. The shortest power cords I can recall seeing were about 3 foot. I also need to clean up the black spagetti in the back of my rack. The cable ties are a inexpensive solution, but using a power conditioner in the box, you still end up with a fair amount of wire hanging inside the box. Guess it's just enevitable with the sport. Good luck Gary | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2135 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks. I've been to the Mouser site and found some short unshielded cables; the shielded cables were all too long. I'll check the Newark site. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 590 Registered: 6-2002 |
Could it be that shielding a short AC power cable produces some unwanted side-effect? I guess when the rack is in use you might as well let the cords hang out from the back of the rack - probably better than coiling them up. | ||
| jacko
Advanced Member Username: jacko Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dave. Going back to one of your earlier comments about interplay between cables, one of my local Hi-Fi shops advised that where a signal cable has to cross a power cable then it should do so at right-angles to avoid any RF interference. You've probably already thought of this though ;-) Graeme | ||
| gare
Advanced Member Username: gare Post Number: 230 Registered: 11-2003 |
Try a quick search for electronic components. Just remembered a few more..Digikey and Allied | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2140 Registered: 5-2002 |
Allied has the same Volex 1.5' and 3' unshielded cables that Mouser has. Those are the only short cables I've found so far; so I may go ahead and order a couple. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 439 Registered: 9-2002 |
I crossed this bridge a while back. While the 'esoteric' high-end audio mains are fabulous, you'd have to pull a BIG gun on me to pay that kind of money for an AC cord. Monster and Planet Waves offer 'better than stock' AC cables at reasonable prices. Myself, I bought really good 3-conductor 12ga zip cord and hospital grade plugs and they have screw terminals and a pilot LED inside the clear housings. Cut it to my lengths, no problem. Saved enough over the cost of Cardas, etc. to buy a used car. I'd CERTAINLY agree that more $ better spent would be an isolation transfomer equipped power conditioner will yield a LOT more bang for the buck. ALL electronic equipment wants to see proper voltage and with most digital devices it's just crucial. Next time you're on a gig and three of you are sharing one wall socket, there's just no way you're gonna get clean 110v without help. Enough amps/plugs/wiring for a bandstand seems to be the LAST thing clubs think about. J o e y | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 920 Registered: 9-2003 |
Joey, I'll agree. I'm a music, equipment and audio nut. On top of that, I'm an Electrical Engineer and a Power Specialist to boot. All this and I still have a problem paying big bucks for cables. Personally, I'd rather spend it on upgrading my equipment (or buying better stuff to begin with) first. Having said that, I won't downplay the importance of proper cables. That old "weakest link" cliche' again is certainly apropos here. As far as power conditioning, you hit on the most important part: isolation from the crappy AC mains and the ability to buck/boost voltage. Electronics, especially audio equipment, are voltage and AC mains noise sensitive...the ability to not only isolate the power that your equipement sees from the noise and malformed voltage/current waveforms as well as adjusting for proper voltage is critical for good sound. BTW, did you ever get your new bike? As an aside, I am now FINALLY MSF (national) and NJ State (local) certified as a Rider Coach (M/C Instructor) and am now currently teaching and licensing newbie motorcyclists and getting paid(!) for it. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2147 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey; I think your suggestion of buying the chord and plugs is the way to go. It had been recommended to me that molded plugs were preferable. But your post and other correspondence I've received on this topic has me thinking the other way. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2148 Registered: 5-2002 |
The power conditioner in my rack is pretty basic. So what are some good examples of an "isolation transfomer equipped power conditioner"? | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 921 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave: You probably won't be happy with the prices, but Monster (cable) makes 'em for both home and pro audio usage. http://monstercable.com/pro_audio/pro_power.asp Or you could try Mark Furman's product line: http://www.furmansound.com/# There are others (audio advisor again), equally or more expensive. Personally, I like Tice Audio. They started this whole clean power, isolation transformer, energy storage, etc. nonsense. They are now, unfortunately, out of business, but their products are available on the used (audiphile market). I love the old Power Block. It's the size of a 18V truck battery (an equally as heavy), and is not rack-mountable (to say the least). It was over a kilobuck new, but can be had reasonably used. The difference in sound that it makes is incredible, but it was not designed for portability. Good Hunting, Kevin | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2150 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Kevin; I just looked at the Monster site you linked; and I guess that's too unthinkable <g>! I'll definitely be giving it some thought, and I'll check out the Furman stuff too. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 926 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave, FYI, Here's a review for the last iteration of the Tice Power Block, which was a huge cosmetic departiure from the original (and markII models) http://www.sdinfo.com/volume_3_1/v3n1p.html Here is a Canadian website that has what appears to be an original Power Block for sale: http://www.americansound.com/specials/used1.htm And a place in Princeton, NJ called Savant Audio that has Tice amongst other brands of conditioners: http://www.savantaudio.com/savant4.html#ticepwrb I tried to find more info, and a shot of the old-style Power Blocks, but I couldn't get much now that tice is OoB. Maybe I can talk my roomate into taking a pic of his Power Block (converted to PBII specs. with the "TPT" treatment, whatever that is, LOL!). Cheers, Kevin | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2151 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; I just returned to this thread and noticed my last post has an error. I meant to say that it's "Not" too unthinkable! Thanks for the additional info. I guess I have some studying to do! | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 761 Registered: 7-2003 |
I just checked Ebay for Furman units. Some of the upper end (controls both voltage sags and spikes) are listed used for dramatic discounts off the new prices (from good sellers). Looks like you could get a pretty fair deal to cover your own rig. I guess the used market for power conditioning isn't as sexy as, say, stomp-boxes (LOL). | ||
| keith_h
Intermediate Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 144 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm not sure a voltage controller/power conditioner is one of those things I would buy used. Since their job is to protect the equipment from power problems you just don't know what abuse they have seen. I have put MOV's into some of my amps (properly designed) over the years and had to replace a few due to them failing under extreme conditions. This was usually at outdoor gigs with generators but once from what I think was a miswired power distribution panel. It might be worth a try if it is cheap enough and can be repaired inexpensively but I just don't know. Sometimes it is worth paying extra for the warm and fuzzies. Keith | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 762 Registered: 7-2003 |
Duh...Point very well-taken, Keith. I must have forgotten why (unlike most of my gear), I still have the new product tags and owner's manual for my current power condition! Used is probably not such a good idea. Is it? Bill | ||
| kevin_k
Intermediate Member Username: kevin_k Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2003 |
Quick question, I have a Furman device in my rig. Not sure the technical name. It might be a conditioner or a regulator. The one I have makes sure that the rest of my gear gets a constent 120V from the wall socket. That means if the power dips, the Furman will make the necessay adjustments so that the gear still gets the correct power. Is this a conditioner or a regulator? Thanks, Kevin K | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2154 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; I'm at the Furman site now. They have a section for their conditioners and a section for their regulators. One unit, the AR-15 II, is listed in both sections and is both a regulator and a conditioner. From what I gather reading that page, as a regulator it "delivers a stable 120 volts"; and as a conditioner it "filters and purifies AC power, reducing line noise and ensuring optimum performance". So it sounds like you have a regulator. | ||
| gare
Advanced Member Username: gare Post Number: 231 Registered: 11-2003 |
Looks like power conditioning is a good subject for another long/seperate thread. ( I love reading those) I agree with Dave, Joey's idea seems most viable when you calculate in the cost factor. I've always tried to run power cable on one side of the box and audio on the other, at least try to get some sort of isolation. Gary | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 440 Registered: 9-2002 |
KMH MANY congrats on your MSF certification. Friends, just let me repeat, they don't just give out Instructor tickets, you must truly be REEAAALLL qualified ! I just wonder how many of these nitwits (even NFL players!) who just had to have a GSXR or some other earthbound SST as their first bike wouldn't have been better off with MSF courses and GS500s . . . well, only their widows and beneficiaries know for sure. No, I wasn't able to move on my KLR for now . . . but I hope I've only postponed it for a while. Geez, if only Honda would bring over the TransAlp or that 600 single that Yamaha sells in Europe . . . But I'll tell you this: After a close encounter with an FJR1300 and a terrific owner who gave me the lowdown, If I had the money and the experience, I'd be riding one tomorrow. Talk about R1 meets Venture Royale ! ! There's a terrific piece about its design and development in the 'Design Cafe' at Yamaha's European (moto) website. By the way, do any of the computer IsoBar type devices (TrippLite, for instance) work well for music gear, providing that the capacities match up? A lot of times you can score this stuff from the usual 'Computer Liquidators!' type joints for pennies on the dollar. Any experience with these? BTW, did you make if to the Left Coast to see Nicky win at Laguna? J o e y | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 927 Registered: 9-2003 |
Joey, Thanks much. It's taken my many months of hard work, money and personal sacrifice (i.e., lots of volunteering and personal vacation time-off from work), but I am 100% legit now as a RiderCoach. I'm actually getting paid and am teaching on my own (I'm currently teaching a class of 12 beginners this weekend as I write). Don't give up: save your money and firm up your resolve and you'll eventually get the bike you want. Don't forget to take the MSF course! I don't know about the data power conditioners. I guess as long as it can handle the current demands of all your electronics (especiallly power amps), I don't see why not. BEWARE: Surge suppression and noise filtering vary widely with different equipment...not all are created equal. Cheaper price usually means cheaper designs and less protection. The units that offer an iso. XFMR and voltage regulation are vastly superior to the "Home Depot" style outlet strips and other similar devices that have simple voltage clamping circuits ans/or rudimentary "filtering" circuits. That's why they are considerably more expensive. In my opinion, the only way to eliminate power line noise (not noise added via external RFI, spuriae or harmonic power contamination, i.e., via digital equipment w/switched power supplies you have plugged-in) is via an isolation transformer. Voltage regulation will also ensure that voltage sags or overvoltage won't affect your sound and/or damge your voltage-sensitive electronic equipment. I missed the MotoGP at Laguna. I saw the boys (Colin, Nicky, KRJR and Hopper) race at Phillip Island in Oz in '03. I was actually at a private party in a Cowes, Australia (Phillip Island) at a seaside restaurant/club called the Jetty with Nicky (and Dad Earl), Sete, Marco, and a bunch of the MGP teams! I couldn't get the flagroom tickets I wanted (I called all day the day they went on sale and could not get in!) and I didn't wanna sit in the stands or the dirt for three days. I've spent alot of time in Monterey at the track (two 500Gp's and two World Superbike races), but I haven't been there since '96. I'm spoiled (and old) and will only do the private catered flagroom w/ CCTV deal at World Championship races, LOL! |
