| Author | Message | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4306 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi guys, today I went to the Northern Guitar Show in Liverpool and stumbled across a company called Iconic Sound who were showing an analogue optical instrument cable that they claimed would allow the guitar sound to be heard clearly without the issues of noise, capacitance, and all the other problems there are with using long copper guitar cable. Anyway I got talking to the two people on the stand and what they were saying seemed to make sense but personally I can't honestly say that I've heard a difference in the sound quality from using different brands of guitar leads. But willing to give it a try, we found a bass stall that would let us try it out and I played an old Shergold bass and also a Rickenbacker bass both with a standard guitar cable and then with this new Optical cable. I wasn't expecting the difference to be as profound as it turned out to be and I have to say the difference was actually incredible. There is so much more body clarity, warmth, fidelity, volume and punch in the sound when using the optical cable. I was quite shocked to be truthful. Anyway I'm thinking of signing up for one of these cables which should be out in about 6 months or so but just wondered if there would be any difference in what I'm hearing with the low impedance output of my alembic basses since they also are designed to remove problems relating to capacitance and noise issues with guitar leads. I will be in contact with the company again soon and hope to be able to try the cable with one of my alembic basses at some point. http://www.iconicsound.com/home/4587275578 I'd be interested in what you think before I part with any cash. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 1245 Registered: 3-2004 |
"If it's optical, isn't it digital? No! We use a patented optical analog technology, there's no encoding, digitization or modulation. The signal travels down the fiber as light." I'm very skeptical about this claim, but I would be interested in a technical explanation. | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 202 Registered: 7-2007 |
Interesting. I looked through the link and it seems a Limited edition one is £99!! It does sound a little similar to the claim that Monster made about punch etc and I did buy some at the time. The difference was subtle and the cables were bulky so I have relegated them to spares. I use Van Damme from Mike Hills leads in Milton Keynes and they come out at about £30 and are wonderfully flexible. Do you think this new lead is a bit gimmicky? A battery in the lead? - more to go wrong? I am sounding very negative and suspicious - why pre-order? If they have such faith then why can't you buy them now? BUT - you did try them and you have a good pedigree as a musician so maybe! Finally, I thought the video was irritating and no sound samples to prove their points. Glynn | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 203 Registered: 7-2007 |
My Post disappeared - will try again | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 3173 Registered: 6-2002 |
If it's not any sort of modulation then surely it's a good old optical compressor coupled with an enhancer at the other end. I'd be interested to hear a quality recording of a grand piano through it, A/B'ed with a direct signal of the same - a test I remember to bring out the artificiality of dBx noise reduction back in the 80s. And no, you really did not want to listen to classical solo piano repertoire that way. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3741 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hello , Adriaan , DOLBY SR did a better job in my opinion. I still need to use that system on the Dolby SR encoded tapes that I have to transfer . I use the cat. 280 cards in a 361/360 frame. I also keep a few dBx units around for those tapes that used it . As far as this optical instrument cable goes I believe that I would like to see and hear a measured comparison between various other options of an instrument interconnection (copper, wireless, etc ...) . That would be a comparison of other means of connections measured with test equipment with finite results in numbers and a response graph with a clear indication of frequency response, signal loss , capacitive reactance, etc. In other words , a nice screen shot to claim bragging rights . Like Jaco said , " It's not bragging if you can prove it ". | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2111 Registered: 2-2005 |
There are many things you can measure in a lab and show something is better than another. You can also take someone with a trained ear in a pristine double blind test and they might be able to hear a difference. But when the rubber hits the road most of these things make no difference in what a musician hears as our ears just aren't that sensitive. Add in the normal environment we play in along with the equipment we use and it further obscures any advantage most of these things have over one another. Keith | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4308 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was very sceptical and had a good chat with them before I even picked up the lead to try. I thought like you Adriaan about the optical compressor type thing and wondered if there is any audio enhancement at either end of the cable which would make the sound " more exciting" but they assured me there is no enhancement to the tone merely converting to light then back again. Murray, the 6 month delay is because they are not in production at the moment. There are apparently only 3 of the cables in existence. As I mentioned earlier I'm hoping to get to try one of the leads with my Alembic bass to see if there is anything to be heard on an active bass. I do get to do gigs on the South east coast with Musical youth and as the company is based in the London area, there may be a chance for them to bring a lead for me to try out on a gig. The batteries are also a worry since they last currently 18 hours of playing so this would be another thing to think about especially if you suddenly lost sound. I'm a very cynical person but the difference was really impressive. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3743 Registered: 5-2009 |
keith , we are all here because we can hear a difference  . That is why we love our Alembic instruments . I can hear a difference . | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2270 Registered: 9-2002 |
For me, it would have to be OMG, night and day difference to put up with having to CHANGE BATTERIES in my CABLE . . . especially doing a gig or recording, because I can utterly guarantee that it would go out on me at EXACTLY the wrong time . . . . . probably stick with my Mogami/Neutriks. This is another one of those things where you can go broke / drive yourself crazy to be as perfect technically in your own rig, only to be mic'd up thru the crappiest system or recording setup, where all of that is reduced to AM radio quality in a heartbeat. I can't wait to see the endorsement ads for some guy using these and saying what a difference it makes in his rig that includes 27 pedals and a vintage amp that sounds just like a welding machine. J o e y | ||
| peoplechipper
Senior Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 508 Registered: 2-2009 |
Coming from passive guitars to an active bass I wondered about the hassle of instruments with batteries; as I now know it's no hassle really as it lasts hundreds of hours; changing batteries in your cables(!) every 9-18 hours IS a hassle...if it works as well as they say I could see them having a studio market for it but it seems to be impractical for live use unless the artist is allergic to wireless and has an electrocution phobia...Tony | ||
| peoplechipper
Senior Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 509 Registered: 2-2009 |
Coming from passive guitars to an active bass I wondered about the hassle of instruments with batteries; as I now know it's no hassle really as it lasts hundreds of hours; changing batteries in your cables(!) every 9-18 hours IS a hassle...if it works as well as they say I could see them having a studio market for it but it seems to be impractical for live use unless the artist is allergic to wireless and has an electrocution phobia...oh, and it wouldn't work for vintage style fuzztones and such, as they need that direct interaction...Tony. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2112 Registered: 2-2005 |
Wolf, Yes but with Alembic the difference in comparison to other basses is very noticeable. Even my wife can tell the difference when I play something other than my Alembics. She is one of those that everything is right in the world as long as the radio plays music so she can sing along in the car. Unless they are processing the signal which means they are coloring the sound I would have to see the results of a double blind study to be convinced. I also wonder about how well the optical cable will hold up to road use. Based on my limited exposure to optical I think wire will hold up better and is definitely easier to repair while on the road. Keith | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2264 Registered: 11-2004 |
Joey..exactly what I think these days, you have a million dollar bass into a trillion dollar amp set up then it goes through an adequate(and I mean that with some optimism!) to which the end result is something sounding like Edison had in his wax cylinders! You can have the most technically perfect setup in the world but if you do gigs where you are at mercy of the soundman and gear you definitely at a loss. On the other hand if you have all that gear and you turn up at a small gig where a) there is limited room to set up, b) your gear is going to be way too loud, then you will definitely get complaints from the rest of the band, the venue organiser and the crowd. Sometimes you have to leave all that 'I really need the ultimate sound' behind and play the music, okay, it is nice to have decent gear but hell, reading some of the posts on here it just seems over the top! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3744 Registered: 5-2009 |
Keith, I agree that " I think wire will hold up better and is definitely easier to repair while on the road. " I have Fibre Channel/Fibre Optic interfacing on a 14 hard drive storage array that I use for mass storage of digital files . The cable is differently more fragile than any of the other types that I use for other external storage that are wire such as SCSI, FIREWIRE & USB. For instrument use I think that I will stick with a premium wire cable. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2272 Registered: 9-2002 |
I mean if you really wanted to trip the light fantastique, why not have a wireless with an ADAC in the transmitter and a reverse on the receiving end, and skip fibre optics or whatever else would be involved in any kind of cable? Or could you Bluetooth it like a phone app, Wi-Fi into an amp and the board or anywhere else it needs to be? J o e y | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3746 Registered: 5-2009 |
Bluetooth technology is offering all kinds of new possibilities .I think with that technology range of distance might be about 33 feet or so but I would think 20-25 feet might be safer to prevent" drop-out glitches/artifacts " . | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2114 Registered: 2-2005 |
Wolf, I have dealt with optical busses in computers. My reference was more what I've seen in consumer A/V optical cables used to interconnect home sound system audio. While they are meant for heavier use than computer cables they still lack robustness for musician use. Not to mention the Iconic Sound introduces two additional external connections which means more potential points of failure. Something needs to be done in the wireless audio arena as the FCC continually takes away spectrum and will not reserve a band specifically for audio equipment use. Bluetooth or WiFi are possibilities but with the potential for so many other devices to share the spectrum at a performance the results might not be ideal. Keith | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3748 Registered: 5-2009 |
Keith , I concur with you on both issues . The FCC deals with pro-audio as such that is of no consequence of theirs . Wireless spectrum allocation between in ear monitoring and wires less mics for the talent is NOT a bowl of cherries at this time on a large scale event . | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1600 Registered: 5-2006 |
Imho digital wireless is the best for connecting an instrument to an amp/rig (I use the Line6 Relay G90) These optical cables could be useful for breaking ground loops, but there are other (inexpensive) options for that. Also I wouldn't want a battery powered cable in a rig, so that would require modification so it can take juice from a power supply... |
