| Author | Message | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 533 Registered: 6-2014 |
Some of us play, and work on other fine instruments... lately a few of them have come up in threads that went off into fun but unrelated tangents, so I thought we could make a permanent spot for these musings. I love to see other peoples "baby pictures" too. I'll go first... Here's my newest baby, taken moments after the case was opened on the day she came in to Fret Mill Music, 5/19/2014 and a couple days later, in better light. What is it? Well, a couple years ago I had the C.F. Martin & Co. Custom Shop build me a 00-18 based on 1929-1932 specs, right down to the hide glue construction. The only exceptions to the vintage appointments are: a modern 2-way adjustable truss rod, instead of the inlaid ebony reinforcement of the time, and I had it fretted with standard tanged fretwire as opposed to the bar type fretwire in use until late 1934. To be completely technical, the shaded (sunburst) top is based on a 1933 Orchestra Model. Essentially, they built me a guitar they haven't made since 1932. I sold two vintage Martins to offset the cost, and haven't regretted it yet. Well... I do miss one of them, but it belongs to a good friend and bandmate, who knows I'll strangle him if he ever sells it or defaces it in any way. =) Comments? Who's next? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6206 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have a parlor guitar that's about 100 years old. The back is, I believe, quarter sawn oak. V shaped neck like 100 year old Martins. The maker is Eugene Howard and it was distributed by Wurlitzer. I have found little info about this guitar or the builder. Anyone? Bill, tgo | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1672 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wow...it's so bizarre seeing the old shapes with a pristine and glossy finish...and the burst...  Here's one of my mystery instruments. I'll post a link to a full album with big pics for the GSI(Guitar Scene Investigation) tonight. I'll get some good shots of the bracing etc. I think it's an old old body paired with a neck from the 40's-60's?? It sounds big and pure, with alot of punch with a little energetic playing. The neck needs a reset and the top is a little bowed. I have the steel strings tuned way low (C) until I have a plan for it's ailments. I'll have to find some nice low tension strings to keep things right. Here's some teaser shots. Does anything look familiar ?         | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 535 Registered: 6-2014 |
That body is reminiscent of Chicago-made Regal & Washburn guitars, but the neck is a puzzle. Most if the Regal/Washburn ones I've seen were braced laterally and had a lot of wood marquetry, but that looks like tortoise celluloid binding, which should help date it. I'd guess this side of 1930. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1673 Registered: 6-2002 |
This one has X bracing. There's the end of a truss rod hiding in there. I've got the inspection mirror out and am going to try to get some inside pics. Thanks for the input! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 537 Registered: 6-2014 |
Not much help Bill, but here's a link to a UMGF thread on Eugene Howard... I've heard of them and read a little, but never seen one IRL. http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/82475 | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Junior Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2010 |
The side shot seems to show more of a deviation from parallel at the 14th fret than the bridge, which indicates some loosening in the neck joint. A tiny crack at the heel cap translates into a major bow topside. Usually if the belly at the bridge is the bigger problem, there's some corresponding rotation of the bridge (a dip in front and belly behind, which is what X-bracing was invented to combat) http://tinyurl.com/o4bfuef One thing to consider is that it's the height of Summer, when acoustic guitars go wonky anyway, especially if you live someplace humid. My mentor sometimes told customers; "if the action is still too high at Christmas, then you have a problem." I've seen repairmen drill a small hole straight through the *heel and neck block, and bolt them together with a large washer and nut against the neck block. They had first cut out a plug slightly larger than the bolt head to countersink it into the heel. Once they trimmed the plug and glued it back in place on top of the bolt head, you simply couldn't tell it was there. It took him about twenty minutes, versus a couple hours for a traditional "fire up the teapot" neck reset, which requires pulling the 14th fret, drilling a couple of small holes in the fret slot and injecting steam (or solvents, depending on the glue) into the dovetail joint to loosen the glue. Then you have to saw through the fingerboard at the 14th fret so you can gently tap the heel cap with a soft mallet to remove the neck, clean the dovetail, reglue it and reverse the process. All to close a 1/16" gap at the heel cap. If you just don't feel like messing with all that right now, you can make it easier to play by tuning down a whole step and putting a capo at the second fret. (A lot of 12-string players do this, to drastically reduce the tension.) as a bonus, the position markers remain relevant. I did a bunch of research on acoustic sites to find low(er) tension strings to recommend. Martin silk 'n steel are popular with collectors, but not with players. Their sound is just too much of a departure for the phosphor-bronze lovin' aficionados, I guess. DR Sunbeams came highly recommended, because they use a round (as opposed to hexagonal) core, and because they make the winding a larger percentage of the mass, it increases their flexibility. (Good lord, I tried five different ways to put that, and it just gets more confusing. I hope you know what I mean.) Somebody said they're a lot "slinkier" than others. There. I should have just said that. Newtone has a new line of low-tension phosphor bronze strings specifically made for vintage guitars, called "Heritage:" http://www.juststrings.com/newtoneacousticguitarheritage.html Last but definitely not least are Rohrbacher strings, the world's first corrosion-proof titanium strings. http://www.rohrtech.com/ Two reviewers said that not only do they stay bright FOREVER, but they seem to be much slinkier than normal. (One guy said they bend as easy as the .009s on his Tele. Your mileage may vary.) Lastly, Stewart-MacDonald has an insane amount of free information on their site: http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/ (Click the first one, "action + setup." See what I mean? Holy batman, Toledo! Don't tell anybody, or it'll put us repair guys out of business! Jeff Beck on setups? Lindy Fralin on pickups?) Be sure to check out the DVDs and books by the Master Blaster of repair, Dan Erlewine, while you're there. It's a lot cheaper to buy a DVD and fix it yourself. Can't wait to see the rest of the pics. * an old Guild D-40, with the flat heel. I suppose it would be the same with a Martin-style pointed heel, but I've only seen the procedure once. (Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on August 20, 2015) | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1674 Registered: 6-2002 |
Great advice Ed, I'll start thinking about addressing the belly once summer settles into fall. I liked the Silk and Steels ok, but they did seem to lack some gusto. I might order some heritage strings,thanks. The Thomastik Infelds I use on electrics "drape"(?) nicely when held from one end,I'm guessing that translates into flexibility. The neck seems tight,but I hear ya about those angles magnified. If the top comes down it might be close to right. I noticed the nut slots are cut low,maybe too low. I can cut a new nut. I might even consider refretting it with something nice. Here's a link to some inside pics: photo album Gotta run now ...thanks for your time ! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 539 Registered: 6-2014 |
That is a very interesting guitar Elwood... I don't recall having ever seen one exactly like it, and that's saying something because I've been looking for a very long time!. I do agree, the neck is almost certainly a retrofit. A body that old, (I still think circa late-30's/early-40's though the unscalloped braces suggest later 1940's) shouldn't have an allen head adjustment accessed from the soundhole. And the J.G. quote inside is a pretty cool extra! My best guess is, somebody somewhere did a cool franken-guitar. I had to dig for it, but here's a picture of the similar Chicago-made Regal I had.  I sold it a while back to the fella on the right... he uses it for gigs where he has to fly, and sent me this picture of it with the manager of the Texas Rangers. Story was, the band he plays with was playing the 7th inning stretch at a game, the manager saw the guitar on the big screen, and being a guitar collector, inquired about it. Best info available dates it to the late 1930's. Here it is head-to-head with a 1934 Martin D-18. It never sounded this good when I had it... not sure why. =) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZPQic6HMEc | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Junior Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2010 |
I LOVE Thomastik strings, in spite of the horrible things I have to do with strangers in dank, dimly-lit places to afford them. I found a set of Thomastik Spirocore double bass strings in a dusty music store that looked like a backdrop for a musical version of "Hoarders." They had obviously been on the shelf since God was a boy and were marked down to $150! My wife, the Foghorn, is from Scotland. Imagine the "conversation" (fling your cutlery drawer against a wall for realistic sound effects) before she proved yet again what lousy taste she has in husbands, and approved. (I think it was only because she and my ancient German upright "Brunhilde" are both European.)  Words cannot describe the incredible difference in sound (the strings, not the Foghorn). That was '96. They're still on there. Gotta love stainless flatwounds. So all this babbling is to say that I looked at their website and discovered that they make a new type of low-tension bronze strings called "Plectrum" especially for vintage guitar[ist]s: http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/family-detail/Plectrum "...a remarkable string that prompts comments like: “l never knew a string like this existed!” [note: that sentence doesn't appear in the German version, for some reason] The combination of lower overall tension, hybrid arrangement of flatwounds (a,d,g) with roundwound low e, and silk inlays (for precise overtone balance) produces a beautiful, almost classical tone, with the warmth of bronze and the easy playability of a fine set of jazz strings. and because of its low, evenly balanced tensions, plectrums can extend the playing life of many fine older guitar[ist]s with weak bracing or other special age conditions." What the heck is a "silk inlay?" Anyway, I'm getting a couple of sets, one for my pristine '57 Martin 00-15M and another for my *'39 D-45 *someday (sigh), if my line of barbecue-flavored personal lubricants takes off. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 542 Registered: 6-2014 |
I can personally vouch for the TI Plectrums... I've used them exclusively on my vintage parlor guitars for years now. Full sound, low tension... love 'em. They are available in at least three gauges that I'm aware of; 11's, 12's, & 13's, but yeah, Ed Zep is 100% right, they're expensive. One of my buds who also uses them on my advice, is running a comparison on the TI Spectrum set right now... report to follow. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1675 Registered: 6-2002 |
Great stuff guys!! thanks That Regal does look real close.That will help as I scour the web for info. I'll order some TI plectrums, and start thinking about fashioning(buying?) some clamps for the belly. Next up...my Alvrarez GY-1 prototype. I better double up on that string order. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2010 |
I've got an interesting Alvarez story. I love pre1980 (or so) Yairis. Here's a plethora of catalogs and info going way back: http://alvarezyairi.web.fc2.com/catalog/index.html#rare Coincidentally, I had an itch way back in my plethora just last weekend. If your GY-1 has a Modulus neck, wanna sell it? So anyway since that's the Jerry Garcia model, you'll really get a kick out of this (if you don't, I can come over and personally deliver one). I've got a '75 Yairi DY-76 herringbone 12-string that EVERYBODY says is the best 12-string they've ever played. And it is. It's got action like a Rickenbacker 12, with a slightly skinnier neck than most 12s I've played. Booms like a cannon. So I see an ad in the local want ads (this is '93 or so, pre-internet) for a 1965 Alvarez classical guitar. I thought it must be a misprint, so I call the guy. Nope, it's from the first year of Alvarez, made within months of Yairi leaving Martin to start his own company in Japan. Dude says the bridge is "funky," and he wants $200, period. I'm telling you this part in a little more detail than I normally would, so you can get a handle on what happened next and how it relates to this topic, in this hallowed place, and one of those rare "high water marks" in my life where I was able to prove that I'm a born bassist. Because I did something so damn DUMB - yet magnificent in its own weird way - that it could only happen to a bassist, and only other bassists would know what I mean. I drove up and he was waiting by the door. I said; "hi!" And without a word, he turned and entered. I followed. We make a beeline to the guitar. He said; "here it is." And it is a 1965 Alvarez classical guitar. He picked it up and instead of playing it, as I expected, he hugged it tenderly. "I got this at the PX in San Angelo, Texas on my way to the plane, the morning I shipped out to Vietnam." Wow. Talk about intense. I looked at his face for the first time. I was shocked. A stark look I can only describe as wistfulness radiated out of him, but his words were clipped and deliberate. "I kept it with me wherever I went, but the heat and humidity wrecked it." He showed me the bridge, which had rotated about thirty degrees. Everything between the bridge and the sound hole is ... Well, off. Behind the bridge is just a nice gentle arc. Suddenly a woman walked in and kinda barked his name. The guy cringed like a startled turtle, trying to wedge his head between his shoulder blades. "Hmm, somethin' going on there" I thought. He said "you want it?" and without even playing it or looking at it, I said "sure!" And dug out the dough. The woman barked again. We both cringed that time. I wanted out of there. He started to put it in the case, but stopped and said; "I just want to play it one last time." As a married man, I knew what that last bark meant, so I knew what a risk he was taking by being defiant. We could both feel the dragon nearby, and we both knew that particular roar meant that fire was next. He launched into a finger picked melody in D, a descending progression any denizen of this hallowed site would instantly recognize or crawl back to trolling knitting forums for lulz. A fat toddler waddled to the woman. "FRIEND OF THE DEVIL!" I cheerfully blurted, delighted that we had become pals by virtue of our common musical bond. I beamed. (For decades, that's the part I remembered the most: what I must have looked like to them, standing there with a doofus grin, my lone comment seeming to have issued straight from the pits of hell.) He instantly stopped and glared at me with pure fear and hatred. His jaw dropped. He looked at the dragon. Naturally, I looked at the dragon. There was a stout, furious woman glaring at me with the same enthusiasm a vampire has for *garlic bread. I did the startled turtle thing, and turned from the laser-like beam of some kind of off-the-rails CRAZY. I looked around me for the first time. There were crucifixes everywhere. Bibles everywhere. Huge, expensive family portraits. Bible verses carefully painted on cards on a tripod by the fridge. It was like I had come to right in the middle of a 700 Club demographic. I might as well have walked into their home and announced in a clear, cheerful voice; "LETS SACRIFICE THE BABY!" I left. I think of that every time I play that guitar. And let me tell you, it's wonderful. It's a shame I didn't get the chance to tell that story to Jerry. He'd have loved it. It had everything; an old Alvarez, Vietnam, bad choices of women... And an absolutely blessed guitar. The rotation put the strings in precisely the right position to give it superb action. Dead flat on a dead flat fingerboard - a miracle in itself, knowing the hell this thing's been through - and a gentle dip on the inside edge of the soundhole to slope upward into the leading edge of that wacky, wonky bridge to give it just a little "fight." Just perfect action. And the sound, holy cow. I looked inside it with a mirror once, and you can clearly see where Mr. Yairi started the fan bracing out as seven ribs, then changed it to five. The center rib (obviously made from some kind of Japanese willow, judging by how eagerly it bent under the bridge's trip around its axis) stayed where it was and he must have pried the outer three up (!) and eliminated two, splitting the difference in spacing among the remainder. I'm serious. Because of that, I think it could very well be one of Mr. Yairi's first guitars. How could he have known it would go to Vietnam, by way of Texas, and wind up in Massachusetts in the hands of a babbling lunatic? Pictures to follow, if I can talk somebody into resizing the pics for me (I'm on an iPad since lopping my big toe off, and iPad don't do that.) "I set out runnin' but I take my time..." * when the stakes are too high (Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on August 22, 2015) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2429 Registered: 9-2002 |
EdZ, you'll have to help me with some of the model numbers. In the mid-eighties, I worked in a music store in Florida that did business with St. Louis Music. Obviously, prior to my employment, evidently the store manager had gone to NAMM and must have had many, many drinks with the rep, as we had the entire A-Y collection from that catalog they published in those days. To die for classicals, the 'lute-back' guitar that seemed like a wooden Ovation, a D45 lookalike, even the double-neck 6/12 acoustic. We had a matching guitar of every page in that catalog ! He was embarrassed to the point they were all carefully stashed, as new. I explained we should put them out, and he reluctantly agreed. I sold the doubleneck later that day to a kid that had seen the Alex Lifeson ad. It was an amazing sight to see them all in a row, we advertised it as a 'catalog sale'. For me, back then Alvarez-Yairis were the most overlooked great guitars you could buy. SLM under the Kornblums was a stand-up bunch, sorely missed these days. Joey | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2010 |
Ah, grasshopper. The answers you seek are already yours. Click the link in my post: http://alvarezyairi.web.fc2.com/catalog/index.html#pacific ...and scroll up. There's every Alvarez Yairi catalog and price list one could possibly want. Second from the top: "St. Louis Music Supply Co. Alvarez by K.Yairi USA Catalog." Click thusly and butterflies will waft you heavenward, for within we find every catalog, price list and dealer info from the 70s on up to 2010 or so. Canada, too. And Japan! You will find the fabled DY-98 Lute Back, http://alvarezyairi.web.fc2.com/rare_models/dy92/index.html the double-neck DY-87 (Rush rocks, man), http://alvarezyairi.web.fc2.com/catalog/index.html#pacific even the oddball customs like the 9-string DY-58: http://alvarezyairi.web.fc2.com/cat1981/p27.html There is much to learn. When you can take the capo from my hand, it will be time to go. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1676 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ed, My Alvarez doesn't have a graphite neck (if ya find two, would ya sell ME one ?). This is from the early 90's,Lacewood , w/o any electronics (no extra holes for plastic preamp inserts ). DY98's and DY99's comes to mind when you mention graphite.Is that right? Cool guitars! A few years back I was without any guitars around so I went a little music store, pretty quickly identified an Alvarez that seemed the best sounding acoustic of what was on the wall. I came back later to get it, my mom was with me...with no clues from me she found the same guitar to be 'the one'. And a bonus,it wasn't even close to top of the line (225$ in 2006) . Probably not as durable as the 70's-80s versions, but maybe I'll get the bridge to rotate that magical 30 degrees a bit sooner. The top has already started to bow (no willow bracing these days?) I'll work on pictures of mine tonight. Ed you can send yours to *equortion at outlook .com* and I'll resize them. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1677 Registered: 6-2002 |
p.s. 30 degrees seems like a lot . | ||
| jcdlc72
Senior Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 438 Registered: 11-2009 |
My fretless bass is an Alvarez, I certainly think it is Korean, or otherwise Pan-Asian, from wherever the factory must have been at the time, silk-screened "Alvarez St. Louis, Missouri" logo and all. I bought it through eBay and had it sent to my country, which took about a month. Seems like mine was originally intended to be fretless, and somehow found its way to be a fretless one. If it was made by the previous owner, he didn't said anything about it, and if it was some kind of factory work, it was pretty well done anyway. (Eventually I ended up swapping its pickups for a couple EMG 40J's, and it sounds pretty nice actually). In the meantime, I had a gig - my Alvarez had not arrived yet, I played that with another bass - where I shared the stage with another group, and the bass player was playing an Alvarez (a six-er, with the same silk-screened logo as mine, BTW). I tried to make small talk with him, and commented I was having a Fretless Alvarez coming my way in a few days, and asked him about his experience with his Alvarez bass. My surprise came with his response: "Well, I' ve been doing fine so far with it. I had Mr. Alvarez personally make this one for me..." Needless to say, no more words were exchanged after that. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2010 |
The reason I asked about the Alvarez GY-1 with a Modulus graphite neck is that Jerry had three of them made. Last I heard, years ago, was that he had given one away to somebody. One of his main ones went for $102,000 at auction: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15537/lot/22/ I have no idea where the other two are. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1678 Registered: 6-2002 |
We just missed this one...darn! sold DY99 | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1679 Registered: 6-2002 |
...and one of those lute back Yairis- ebay link | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 545 Registered: 6-2014 |
I saw one of those Alvarez 9-strings once when I worked in a music store. (seems like a few of us here have done that!) I've never seen another since. I remember thinking it was a neat idea. Only remember working on one Alvarez... don't remember the model, but it was built to resemble a Martin Style 35, with a 3-piece back, and bound fingerboard. Anyway, it had survived a house fire, and stunk (yeah, it's a real word according to Dr. Seuss) something awful, but it had a lot of sentimental value to it's owner. Incredibly, it got so hot in it's case, that the bridge came off, relieving the tension, thereby preventing the guitar from folding up. Ball-ends pulled right through the bridgeplate and the top, still had the pins welded to them. I guess the only thing that saved it was that plywood bridgeplate being so worn out. Not a single loose brace, no cracks anywhere... just a little fret sprout and that god-awful smell. I wouldn't believe it either if I hadn't seen it. So, we replaced the bridge, shimmed the bridgeplate, filed off the fret-ends, and sent it on the way... it still stunk, but it was playable. AFAIK, he's still got it. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1929 Registered: 10-2006 |
My first guitar was an Alvarez 5014 (think 000-18 with -28 trim & a Gibson-style thumb screw bridge. 36 years later, it still gets >90% of my playing time. Is it as nice as a Martin/Guild/Santa Cruz/etc? No - but it'd nice enough to keep playing, and those divits under the first 5 frets are mine! Does need a refret & new nut, though. Peter | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2010 |
I buy and sell old music and humor magazines (Frets, National Lampoon, Keyboard, Guitar Player etc.) and sometimes I'll get some that REEK of musty basements, overly perfumed closets or homes that must be like living in a four-bedroom ashtray. I've found that most of the time, sealing them in a bag with the a cup or two of the cheapest powdered milk I can find (I buy it in bulk) works pretty well, except for really musty odors. In that case I use instant coffee (be sure to elevate the magazine on a cooling rack so it doesn't touch the coffee). Last but not least is the "nuclear option:" put the magazine(s) or charred instruments - as the case may be - in a big garbage bag. Punch a bunch of holes in the lid of a large jar (I use mason jars), fill it halfway with peroxide, mix in a tablespoon of baking soda and put it in the bag, and squeeze out as much air as you can. Do this where you want it to sit for awhile, because it's a real pain to move it afterward. The baking soda makes the peroxide release its extra molecule of oxygen, which attracts the volatile compounds in the stench. I read about it in an interview with a rabies researcher who was required to test roadkill to detect rabies. The skunks were so bad his wife threatened divorce, and the stench clung to him (and his car) like crazy. So he asked a chemistry teacher at the local high school, who told him about baking soda and peroxide. And it WORKS. It's the best way to de-skunkify a critter, trust me. We tried it when our pooch got sprayed. He taught me a valuable lesson. Here it is: when your dog gets sprayed by a skunk, DONT OPEN THE DOOR AND LET HIM IN THE HOUSE. Also, add a squirt of dish soap (not detergent, we use Dr. Bronner's "all one dog" soap) to break the surface tension on their coat and let the oxygen penetrate. It really is miraculous. O yeah, another lesson: TOMATO PRODUCTS DONT WORK. (Peroxide's way cheaper, anyway.) | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 3257 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ground coffee on a plate will absorb smells, especially in a fridge. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 548 Registered: 6-2014 |
I've used the coffee before, and baking soda too, but that peroxide idea sounds interesting. I've used fabric softener sheets on smelly cases before, with mixed degrees of success. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 549 Registered: 6-2014 |
Dang You, Picture Gremlin!   Just for that, here's a picture of my little monster with an older sister, a "Golden Era" OM-18GE, one of the very few of these made to 1930 specs, right down to the rosewood binding and banjo pegs.  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4437 Registered: 5-2009 |
The worst case scenario of items as discussed such as old music/paper items /old instrument cases /items that have fabric , etc , is MOLD and MOLD SPORES . This can actually make you very ill! There are many scientifically documented cases with a large variety of illnesses and allergies that can be caused and triggered from mold and mold spores . People with respiratory , Asthma and sinus conditions are the most susceptible. Just random bad smells are the least of your worries . The mold microbes can do real harm ! The first thing that I do with every smelly old instrument case is physical cleaning and disinfecting . Chemical disinfectants and ultra violet light and vacuuming the interior is affective. Old magazines all paper and some fabric items can affectively be processed to eliminate mold spores and smells with an electronic ionizer. You will have to have a tank or chamber to seal the offensive items in with the ionizer. There are many arguments regarding various techniques regarding this procedure . http://www.ehow.com/how_5855484_kill-mold-ionizer.html http://allergyclean.com/article-youhavemold.htm Wolf | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2010 |
I can't find the original article (seemed like it was from way back in the early 90s), but here's a reference to it from 1995: http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/pestqtrly/oct95/sknkrmdy.txt The original article was hilarious, about this poor schmoo who had to go around picking up road kill. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2015 |
Forest asked me to resize and post these pictures of his vintage Alvarez... He explains - It's been in its case for about fifteen years, and apparently some strings decided to play "Let It Go."    | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 67 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thank you! I just realized that guitar is fifty years old this year! Wow, my bridge rotated more than that by the time I hit thirty. I couldn't really capture the degree of rotation. I shoulda got the end of the fingerboard, so you could see how those strings line up like ... a jet landing on an aircraft carrier? (See, I can't look at it without thinking; "this sucker went through a war!") ... I can't pick it up without playing "Friend of the Devil," come to think of it. I've always wondered what song he actually played, and by extension who ripped it off and tried to pass it off as a hymn. Like how our national anthem was originally a drinking song that invoked an obscure heathen deity. (Look it up.) A small but significant construction technique that shows Sadao Yairi's (the founder, Kazuo is his great-nephew) attention to detail: the rosette is made of hundreds of tiny colored sticks, arranged in a beautiful pattern (as seen end-on), that were then sliced off and inlaid around the soundhole. Every dot is the end of a stick, if you will. There is one infinitesimal variation - one little dot - out of place. See if you can spot it. (It's an ancient technique handed down to Spaniards from the Moors, by the way. Yairi didn't invent it, but probably went blind perfecting it.) I'll record it. You gotta hear it. It sounds so full and bold, without any of that nasal barking so common in classical guitars. It sounds ... like ordinance going off on a hot night in the jung... Oh, never mind. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2010 |
That Martin 00-18SC is really interesting. I know the basics about Martin body shapes and appointments, and part of the allure of pre-war instruments is because the X-bracing is different somehow. (I could never afford the Longworth book, is what it comes down to.) It also has rounded shoulders on the upper bout, and there seems to be a little more real estate between the end of the fingerboard and the soundhole, compared with newer double-otts (as an idiot, I'm fluent in "Jethro"). There's a theme here, I suspect. One thing your double-ott (what does "SC" mean?) and Elwood's no-name guitar have in common is a body shape somewhat similar to a Gibson B-25:  Your Martin has smaller upper bouts, I believe, and a little less real estate between the bridge and soundhole, I think. Fine with me. As a fingerpicker, I always thought B-25s were boomy in the 250k-500k zone, anyway. (Leo Kottke used them on his earliest albums, alternating with his Bozo guitars.) Gimme an old OM with a C-1000 condenser mic pointed at the neck block from about a foot away. Fingerstyle heaven, I tell ya. Maybe you can tell me why, since you own one. I've always wondered. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2014 |
Regarding the rosette on your Alvarez... that used to be the mark of a fine Spanish guitar. As you pointed out, tiny little pieces of marquetry arranged like a symmetrical mosaic. There are a few makers that still do this. On my little guitar, "CS" is the designation for "Custom Shop". "GE" is for "Golden Era", which is their line of vintage reproduction guitars. They also have a top-shelf line dubbed "Authentic Series" which are made as direct copies from scans of source guitars in the company museum. As I understand it, they are 100% handmade, not pulled off the production line and finished by the Custom Shop. Martin is nothing if not organized. Most of their styles and models (as written by Longworth and Johnston) were clearly defined by the late 1800's, the famous X-brace having been perfected by the mid-1850's. The next big evolution of guitars really began in 1929 when a (plectrum) banjo player named Perry Bechtel suggested they build a guitar with a longer scale, and more frets accessible. Martin responded by altering their 000 body, making the body wider at each bout, but shorter/squatter in length, producing their first guitar with 14 frets clear of the body, and a solid faced headstock. (as opposed to the slotted headstock which was the standard of the time) This also changed the location of the X-bracing on the soundboard, altering the responsiveness to a more focused sound. The resulting guitar was called "Orchestra Model" or "OM". The OM designation only lasted until late 1933/early 1934, and was re-branded "000". Simultaneously, in 1931 the Dreadnought guitar was developed from an old pattern used to make Hawaiin guitars for another company. (Oliver Ditson) In 1934, the Dreadnought simultaneously evolved from a 12-fret to a 14 fret body, and became what we now recognize as a "regular" guitar. All their models followed suit in the coming years, each getting the new 14 fret re-design. Though the 12-fret pattern never went away, it faded to somewhat obscurity until the 1960's... something about a folk boom, or so I read. =) Obviously, that's the short version of how/when/why the Martin body shapes changed. My little 12-fret Custom 00 is a throwback to a brilliant, very transitional time. I designed it very much with the same mindset as when I was deciding how to do my Custom Alembic. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1684 Registered: 6-2002 |
I had time to take some shots of the Alvarez GY-2T. (I'll make them bigger next time,they are compressed too much ).            The Lacewood really shimmers in person. It's got a pretty sparkly sound too...very Jerry . ...gotta run now, or nothing gets done ;) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4649 Registered: 6-2002 |
Now at the other end of the guitar scale, here is something high tech that I came across this morning. http://pursuingtone.com/fusion-guitar-iphone-integration-amp-speakers-indiegogo/ | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2437 Registered: 9-2002 |
The terrific thing about the Fusion is that with those DiMarzio X2N pickups, they're hot enough that on a 5-set gig, they'll recharge your phone ! Joey | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1685 Registered: 6-2002 |
I felt bad about the tiny porn. I think my new resizing method will be better...bear with me,   | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1686 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think I'm on the right track- one more, | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2014 |
What is that wood? Looks a little bit like quilted sycamore... | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1687 Registered: 6-2002 |
Lacewood... Now I need to google quilted sycamore. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1693 Registered: 6-2002 |
I see the gremlins ate the last pic. That's ok ...I have more  | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2015 |
What a weekend... I played Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, got home a little after midnight and still managed to get in to work on time this morning. =) The last leg of this road trip I got to play a show with my cousin, who is as crazy about vintage Gibson guitars as I am about vintage Martins and Alembics. Here's a couple of his go to axes... a 1943 Southern Jumbo, in correct, but restored condition, and an all-original 1944 J-45. I can't imagine two guitars made so close together and constructed so similarly to sound any more different than these... it's night and day, black and white, take your pick. Let's see who here has a guess why that might be.     | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1942 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, obviously, it's the inlays..... Peter | ||
| mtjam
Advanced Member Username: mtjam Post Number: 338 Registered: 11-2011 |
Neck woods? One is maple and the other is mahogany? | ||
| mavnet
Member Username: mavnet Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2003 |
72 years of cigarette smoke aging? | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1694 Registered: 6-2002 |
It looks like the rear brace on #2 is way closer to the heel than the usual place. ? | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1943 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Neck woods? One is maple and the other is mahogany?" In seriousness, I think you're close; IIRC, at least some J-45s had a mahogany top in those days - which I believe made them all-hog. The SJ would be rosewood & spruce. Peter (who would be much more certain if they were Martins) | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2010 |
The soundhole on A is bigger and slightly closer to the neck. The difference in picture angles makes it hard to tell for sure, but is the bottom bout larger on B? In my opinion, based on my extensive experience I'd have to say that B was made after lunch. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2010 |
Interesting National Music Museum display of a 1944 SJ http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/Guitars/Gibson/10867/SouthernerJumboGuitar.html "The Southerner Jumbo, or SJ, was Gibson’s replacement for the Jumbo "55" model in 1944. A very limited number of pre-War instruments with Factory Order Number 910 had rosewood backs and ribs, which on later SJs were made of mahogany. The SJ also had fancier trim than the preceding J-55, with multi-ply, celluloid binding trim, rosette inlay, and a celluloid heel cap. NMM 10867 also features a golden banner decal on the peghead, ONLY A GIBSON IS GOOD ENOUGH. This slogan was used on decals between 1944 and 1946, when it was abandoned because of a rather aggressive Epiphone ad campaign that touted its instruments for "When Good Enough Isn’t Good Enough." | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2448 Registered: 9-2002 |
I worked there for 18 months, during which time Henry the J ran that OAGIGE slogan as a classified ad in the Nashville paper seven days a week. Hmmm . . . . . I wanted to change it to 'Only Good is Gibson Enough', but like I said, having worked there for 18 months . . . . I wouldn't have taken an oath for that, either. IF I were to hazard a guess, and taking it that these really are very close blueprint-wise, there's always that 'If' factor with wood where 10 consecutive serial numbers will vary just because of the milled wood pieces. My real guess would be (looking at the lacquer finish on the restored one) is the re-fin is new, a different chemistry than they used back then, and probably thicker. But then, what the hell do I know? Joey | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2014 |
Good points all! Coz nailed it a few posts ago. Actually the pictures didn't sufficiently show the major difference between them, and the sunburst finish obscured what clue there was to see. It's the top wood... the SJ is a spruce soundboard, while the J-45 has a mahogany top. I'd never played them A/B before this weekend, but wow, that mahogany responds completely different. My cousin is primarily a fingerstyle player... he uses a thumbpick and three bare fingers to do what he does, which is a mix of ragtime, blues, and miscellaneous. Most of the time he's playing a 1942 L-00, but he's acquired a taste for these J bodies of late. The dry woody tone of that mahogany J-45 I think suits his style much better. As a flatpick player, the sparkly clear highs of the SJ suited me better. Heck - I like 'em all! On the "Banner" headstocks: I used to collect Gibson "Kalamazoo" branded guitars... one time as a spoof I made up some t-shirts with a picture of the Kalamazoo headstock stencil and added a photo-shopped banner that read "When A Gibson Is Too Good". (lucky for me, ol' Henry the J didn't hear about it) I might have mentioned before Joey, I tried my best to get hired on there at Elm Hill Pike one time, by most accounts, it's probably best for me that it never worked out. =) (Message edited by edwardofhuncote on September 15, 2015) | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2010 |
I played washtub bass with a street band in Seattle called "Jammin' Salmon" in the early 80's, despite the fact that I'd never touched a washtub bass in my life. I didn't want to do it. I'll tell you that right now. I had to put one together quickly because I was flat broke and a group of the most astonishing performers ive ever met virtually forced me to. They did stuff like Louis Jordan's "Ain't Nobody Here But Us Chickens" and Cab Calloway's "Minnie the Moocher" in TIGHT four-part harmony. The original arrangements, off the records. They said they needed a washtub bass(ist) and I fit the bill. I swear, I wouldn't have done it otherwise. But it's scary how close I came to missing one of the most greatest musical experiences of my life. Jammin' Salmon entertained the tourists at the Pike Street Market, and places like Pioneer Square and the Space Needle.(By the way, if you're ever in a situation where you're forced to busk for a living, don't suck.) Luckily, I knew someone who could make a washtub from stuff at a hardware store (instructions upon request) and about two hours later we were bangin' out insanely cool music in front of a huge throng of people. It happened that quick. It was SO cool. Bass at its most primitive, just you and that string. Watcha gonna do, monkey-boy? The best part was that we made a LOT of money because this music made people dance. They couldn't help it. It gave me a complete education in the FUNCTION of bass. Just yankin' and spankin'. It doesn't get any more fundamental than that. It's stupid simple to play, too, because nobody notices mistakes, at all. Ever. You watch. Everybody smiles at you and they dance, and give you money. The secret to a washtub bass is to prop the front rim of the washtub on something STURDY (<-please note that word) about four inches off the ground. Extra points if you con the hardware store employee into cutting two 6" holes in the rim. (Any more than that will make it too fragile.) It's like a sonic bass cannon. You can actually aim it. It's a 27-inch speaker cone and you're the driver. I'll let you chew on that for a moment. Yankin' is a whole new realm of bass. You're on your own, there. It's surprisingly loud, so you don't have work that hard. It has a unique characteristic of being seismic. It makes the ground actually move. Best of all, there's an amazing singing quality that's unique to the Washtub bass. We made the most money playing for the long lines of people waiting to see "The Empire Strikes Back." It was a cultural phenomenon. It just went on for weeks, block after block with people waiting for the next showing. Every night people lined up for hours in lines that went on and on. We'd play for awhile and move down the block.. It was like fishing. They were our captive audience. I'd be lying if I said I knew how much money we made (or spent at whatever dive we wound up in, to be honest.), but it was a lot. So what brought on this stumbling trip down memory lane was because Jammin' Salmon played for the huge crowd waiting to get into a music festival at the Seattle Center. We were banging away and two guys suddenly appeared, one with a fiddle and the other with this guitar:  Oh man. I don't know how I could possibly tell you what happened, musically. Martin Mull said; "writing about music is like dancing about architecture," and that's certainly true in this case. But for a few moments I yanked and spanked and made the ground move, and angels danced. The fiddler was Mark O'Connor and the guitarist was Tony Rice. That sweet, pure musical memory has been lying dormant in my skull for four decades. It was trying to ascertain the difference (if any) in the soundhole sizes between those SJs that must have dislodged it, because I remembered the soundhole on Tony Rice's guitar being significantly larger than normal (in my mind, the end of the fingerboard jutted into space like Wile E. Coyote's railroad tracks.) I've never seen another like it. In looking up that picture (about a half hour ago) I discovered the history of that particular guitar; http://www.guitarinternational.com/musicgear/acoustic_guitars/martin/hd28_lsv_vintage_martin.html "HD28 (serial #58957) owned by the late, legendary Clarence White in the '60s and later by bluegrass master Tony Rice. Suffering from scars caused by hard picking and cigarette embers, the original soundhole was enlarged to 4-5/16". A further modification entailed replacing the original fingerboard with a longer, bound Gretsch without position markers. " Ha ha, all these years I assumed that guitar was custom made by Martin to Tony Rice's specs. "A daring new design from a venerable maker..." Yadda yadda. Nope. Basically, Clarence reamed that baby out to the next rosette ring and started over with fresh wood. I think he would have loved the irony. Well, whatever he did, it worked. I've heard that guitar at its best. And I was yankin' and spankin' to make that twine whine. Sorry if you came all this way expecting a point to this babbling. I sure was. You can't imagine my disappointment. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1944 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm glad your cousin has found his match - and if the L-00 is lonely, he can feel free to send it my way! Peter | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2014 |
Coz, I'll post some more of my cousin's guitars sometime. He only has two Martins, the rest are Gibsons or National Resophonics. That old L-00 is pretty special... it's had some work done, but good quality work; neck set, refret, bridge reglue, and I personally fixed a pickguard crack that was threatening to break out to the soundhole, and that thin little piece of binding around it. Thanks for that Ed_Zep! Man I'm sure missing hearing Rice... He is in poor health these days, and hasn't made any public appearances for quite a while. He surely picked up where Clarence White left off with that old guitar. Many years ago, (say, probably 30) following a concert in a nearby High School, Tony saw 3 of us ogling that old D-28 in it's anvil case, and in his already gruff tone says "Hell, y'all pick one on that old thing, you can't tear it up no worse than I have." Yeah, we did. There are fuzzy pictures somewhere. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1945 Registered: 10-2006 |
In '04, my youngest spent the summer working on a farm in Bayfield, WI. We went to visit him, and, it being Bayfield, I asked who was at Bigtop Chautauqua (home of NPR's "Tent Show Radio"); quoth he "I looked & didn't see anybody". Fortunatley for him, Dad was wise enough to look for himself, hip understand the implications of a listing for Peter Rowan & Tony Rice, and nice enough to spring for second row center. Be advised, there was some pickin' going on that night!! (Billy Bright on mandolin - I could read his mind: "This is Peter Rowan; he's played with David Grisman and BILL FREAKIN" MONROE and he hired \me to play mando - my young ass is validated!!) & Brynn Davis (at that point Brynn Bright) - oh my yes - on bass. Great night; I'm more than a tad jealous, Forest. Peter (who couldn't have hung, anyway) | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2015 |
Here’s a guitar with a story… I only know the last twenty-five years of it. To start with, I found this guitar in a trash can on a Wednesday. I know it was Wednesday, because the guy who drove the town trash truck radioed me where it was... that particular address was on their Wednesday’s route. I was the town’s water meter reader, and I knew it like the back of my hand. The guys on the truck knew I worked on musical instruments, and brought me anything interesting, but this particular Wednesday, they were “packed out” and going to the dump. It was getting ready to rain, so the driver called my radio number, (cell phones hadn’t been invented yet) and sent me over to rescue it. I didn’t think much about it at the time, didn’t even look very close. I remember it was filthy and mildewed, and smelled very much like a goat barn. Don’t ask how I know what that smells like. Skipping forward, the guitar stood in a dusty corner of my shop for another couple years. Then I met this girl who said she wanted to learn to play guitar. I liked her a little bit, and since she could sing like an angel, I kinda’ wanted her to like me back, so in a fit of hormones or something, I totally went off the rails and set about putting the old guitar in playing condition. It was a mess, both inside and out… tuners were shot, many cracks, loose braces, plus the center seam of the back was separating. And it was still dirty, and still smelled a little like a goat barn. I knew that wasn’t gonna’ score me any points, with the cold-hearted singer with the beautiful voice, so I started by a good cleaning. What? You didn’t seriously think ^that^ part was gonna’ have a happy ending? (it kinda’ did, but that’s later... MUCH later) After cleaning the years’ worth of scuzz off, this charming feature appeared… someone, sometime had scratched the name “Peggy” into the top, and carved a heart shape around it. I thought - awww… ain’t that sweet! Dude probably had about as much luck with Peggy as I did with the singer, but whatever. Hint guys – never, ever scratch your love interest's name into a guitar… it doesn’t work, at least not the way you think it will. Anyway, that’s about when I started to realize just what a gem the trash truck guys had saved. This little guitar I had assumed was a run-of-the-mill, catalog guitar was actually a hand-made instrument, that didn’t bear much resemblance to any known maker. The back and sides were walnut, the back was even quarter-sawn and bookmatched. It had a spruce top, a mahogany neck, and a rosewood fingerboard, even rosewood binding, and an inlaid endpiece to hide the joint. It had the strangest bracing pattern I'd ever seen, something between a A-frame and an M... it was very rigid to say the least, but in all the right places. It had an odd shaped bridge clearly made to resemble a Stauffer style one but without points, and a straight uncompensated saddle. It even had homemade wooden bridge pins. Based on how sturdy it was built and how wide the string spacing was, I’m pretty sure it was meant to be played lap style, like a Hawaiian slide guitar. This much is certain - it was definitely not the first or only attempt at instrument building, whoever had made this had obviously advanced skills. Upon disassembly, I found the name I presume to be the maker, and a date scrawled inside on the treble rib, deep inside where it would never be seen… M. Jade ~ 1927. Don’t bother googling, nobody knows. So I fixed it, and gave it to the girl. She quickly gave up playing, and stopped talking to me after a lengthy discussion on how diverse our priorities in life were. I don’t think she ever appreciated what a cool little guitar it was, or how much love it took to put it back together. Whatever… I honestly missed the guitar more than her, but foolish pride won out, and I didn't ask for it back. Years passed, like maybe 12 or 13… the singer and I got on speaking terms again, and I got the “Peggy” guitar back. After a little tweaking, she was back in good order, this time with some new faux tortoise pins, and a brand new set of Stew-Mac’s “Golden-Age” vintage replacement 3-on-a-plate tuners, in relic’d nickel finish. I even replaced the tattered wooden pickguard with a faux tortoise one to match the pins. Peggy was ready for another home, so I gave her to the young man who plays fiddle in my band when he went off to college. Peggy saw him through a degree in Engineering from Virginia Polytechnic Institute. (better known as Virginia Tech in the world of collegiate sports) Recently he came into a very nice old Martin 0-21, made in 1921, which he was able to afford due in part to being gainfully employed by virtue of that Engineering degree - and sent Peggy back home for some bridge work. I’m almost done with her… glued the new bridge on last night actually. Might see if he minds me keeping her for a while… I’ve enjoyed looking back at some of my early work, and thinking about what Mr. M. Jade would think if he knew his guitar was still around. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2014 |
          | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2014 |
Couple shots of the bridge reglue. I had also shimmed the bridgplate inside, to relocate the bridge pin holes on the new bridge. Also note, I tightened the string spacing about a 1/4"    This view shows how the headstock is not square to the body. The neck has the smallest degree of twist. I planed it out of the fingerboard before re-fretting years ago.  | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 11926 Registered: 5-2002 |
Spelling correction: Bryn Davies, here with Peter Rowan, Tony Rice, and Sharon Gilchrist in a beautiful version of Midnight Moonlight. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
New Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2014 |
Good one Dave! Coincidentally, the guys I'm playing with this very evening almost always finish the last set with a jam-out version of Midnight Moonlight, inspired by none other than Peter Rowan. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2454 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think both you repair guys should start a sub-thread entitled 'Weird S**t Found in Guitars on the Bench'. Joey | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2014 |
Why not? I'll go first. =) I found an 8-track tape of the Eagles Greatest Hits Volume 1 inside a bass fiddle one time. I figure one of these days I'll find Volume 2 and maybe a player. I found a $5 bill in another printed in 1964. I have basically removed the entire bolt and screw aisle of the local hardware store from basses over the past 30 years. I have been known to leave notes inside instruments for some future hack like me to find. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1946 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks, Dave - at some point I realized that I had, in fact, misspelled both of Ms. Davies's names (well, 2 out of 3; got Bright, if ex-names count), but hadn't had a chance to confess my shame....... Peter (WHo hopes no body will tell her, for fear she'll think I'm not totally enamored of her) | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1705 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here's one that needs some TLC. I wonder what the ball park value is as it sits, any guesses? ebay 30's gibson | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2014 |
I'll check Spann's book this evening, but if memory serves, that FON (factory order number) should date that guitar to the mid-1920's. The headstock stencil supports that guess as well. Looks like an L-body flattop... given the extent of work it needs, I'd be surprised if it fetched much more than $100. I'd definitely do a fixer-upper on it. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1706 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks,I might toss a bid out. I have projects galore, still I can't resist looking at others ;). I have a Romanian classical that was rescued from the trash, I heard it before it's demise so I know it has potential. I'll post some pics as I start. Summers over; I see more time in the woodshop soon. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2014 |
Elwood, I think this is an earlier model of the same guitar. http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/90336#90336 In the ad, it says that A-frame bracing was in use until 1926-27. With Gibson of course, that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, but that inked FON is good as it gets for dating them. Good Luck! I have a soft spot for cool old stuff like that too. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1707 Registered: 6-2002 |
There's a clip of that one being played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53VDnZXg2Ew Do you think the ebay guitar had a birch back? I'll have to look closer at the sides. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2014 |
That could pass for birch though it looks more like mahogany... I've seen a handful of lower-end Gibson mandolins with mixed wood sides/back, but I'd guess they matched. It wouldn't be too hard to find another old guitar to salvage the back off of. FWIW, I have a 1914 carved-top L-1 with this same pattern... as far as I know, it's back and sides are birch, but it's hard to tell through all that purple varnish. =) I'll post that one here sometime... it actually belongs to my childhood sweetheart, and has been in her family since new, but I've had it since 1999. She just leaves it with me. | ||
| tncaveman
Advanced Member Username: tncaveman Post Number: 304 Registered: 2-2011 |
Edward - Loved the story about Peggy, the trash can guitar. My wife wondered if it was for Peggy Sue? LOL. But seriously, such a cool story. Stephen | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2014 |
Yeah Caveman, Peggy's a special little guitar. =) Barring anything unforeseen, I should be restringing it tonight. Dressed and crowned the frets last night, still have to make a new bone nut and saddle, but everything else is done. Elwood, I loaned that Spann Guide book to my Dad. I tore the house up looking for it yesterday evening, (hate when I can't find stuff) then suddenly remembered I had given it to him a couple months ago to look up an old Gibson banjo number. I texted him the guitar's FON, so he'll look it up for us this evening. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1708 Registered: 6-2002 |
I appreciate that...thanks. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2014 |
Okay, here it is according to Spann's Guide... 9317 is an L1. The next FON verified is 9323 Nick Lucas Special, both are 1929 manufacture. This guitar falls right between them, and I tend to think it's an L-1 as well. If you look through the lists, you see they usually made these in batches of even numbers. Good luck Elwood... hope you end up with it! I'll post some pictures of my old L-1 later today. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2014 |
Elwood’s ebay find made me think of this one; here’s a 1914 Gibson L-1 carved top guitar.         This little gem belongs to a lifelong friend, who left it in my custody back in 1999. It needed some minor repair… back when we were kids (and sweethearts… :blush-blush she used to play the guitar, but gave it up in college in favor of choir. It’s been in her family since new, her great-grandmother’s actually. Her Dad also played it, and it’s rumored he was the guilty party behind the telltale holes through the rosette where a pickup was mounted. Anyway, we met up in Lexington, Kentucky one time while I was on the way to play a show in Louisville another hour and change away. I brought the guitar home and fixed it up… I remember fitting a new bridge as the original one was sagging badly. Maybe there was a loose side seam too. Next time we got together, she sang and played a tune on it, then handed it back to me… I’ve had it ever since. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1947 Registered: 10-2006 |
Oh my, I do like that! Peter | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 103 Registered: 2-2010 |
I've been meaning to post links to the National Music Museum in this thread ever since the topic of Gibson came up: http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/collect.html#ndx (Note that guitars are listed in different areas, particularly under "plucked musical instruments") Here's a general listing of early Gibson acoustic guitars: http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/Guitars/Gibson/GibsonGuitarChecklist.html About 20 years ago, I read about a luthier who wanted to recreate the "lyre mandolin" pictured on Orville-era Gibson labels. He did a good job, considering he was working from a tiny photo. Within a few months, the real thing showed up: http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/Mandolins/Gibson/12000/GibsonLyreMandolin.html I saw that instrument at Mandolin Bros. in a display case. Everyone agreed that it sounded awful. EDIT- this Gibson collectors' page has tons of awesome pictures unique to the site (the owner is a professional photographer) http://www.oldgibson.com/ (Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on September 25, 2015) | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2014 |
Love that site Ed_Zep! | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 105 Registered: 2-2010 |
I meant to address a conundrum in your "Peggy" guitar, Greg. Do you want to get rid of the scratched heart and name?  The reason I ask is because I saw Dan Erlewine give a demonstration of his method at an ASIA symposium, and I'll admit I was very distracted from being surrounded by the most exquisitly-crafted instruments on the planet. Something to do with using something to break the surface tension of the damaged wood and injecting steam in (or more likely, at) the indentation made by Peggy's hapless suitor (in lieu of the indentation he had in mind, no doubt). Dan Erlewine said something about controlling the area where the wood swells so that it comes level with the surrounding wood, lacquer intact. Then a little [something] on the tippy-tip of a Q-Tip to "melt" and spread the lacquer back in place, at absolutely the correct tint. I think he used superglue somewhere, but I know he does that for missing finish. Can you fill in the pieces? I hate it when I almost learn something. Oh well, as a married man, I do that a lot. Here's my attempt at "finessing" Cletus' technique for regluing the bridge of a fifty dollar guitar.;  | ||
| peoplechipper
Senior Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 636 Registered: 2-2009 |
Oh, that is horrible...maybe the worst. Only thing close to that I've seen is an old Vantage 335 type guitar (although it had a pointy-strat type headstock) which developed a loose jack...rather than the owner fishing the guts out through the f-hole, they decided to open up that corner of the guitar with a JIGSAW...yeah, really. They fixed the loose stuff then epoxied the section back in with match packets to fill the gaps...I gave it to my old guitar player...and he used it for some time; something wrong with that boy... | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2014 |
Where do you find this stuff Ed?! That's pretty bad, just... awful. FWIW, I think we got a few of Cletus' relatives running around this neck-o-th'-woods too. But that bridge job... that's 1st prize there man! =) I took Peggy back home yesterday, good to go for a few more years. Next up, the guitar I loaned the young fella while I had Peggy in the shop. You vintage guys will get a kick outta' this one. :teaser: | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2282 Registered: 2-2005 |
I think things like "Peggy" and the pickup mounting holes are what make these older instruments interesting. To me these are the things that showed they had/have a life and story to tell more than some closet queen will ever have. I have a couple of antique instruments where I know some of their backstory and what I've done is write it down and placed with them so it doesn't get lost. Keith | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 1111 Registered: 12-2004 |
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| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1713 Registered: 6-2002 |
I don't think I'll bid on the gibson, I'll feel better if I finish a few before I take on more. Any opinions on the old gretsch New Yorker F-hole acoustics? I have one in pieces (I think I have it all). These are the ones with a stenciled sprayed logo. Here's one for Ed Zep:  ebay link | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 107 Registered: 2-2010 |
I know the signs of a Magic Marker "paint job" when I see one. You can tell which strings were on when he did it. Being fluent in moron, I know he did that because the hunk of metal he stole from his neighbor's chicken coop to splint that headstock was black, and he didn't want his workmanship to stand out. Humility, or just wanting to avoid those pesky "explanations?" You decide. My favorite thing about those horrendous repairs is imagining the sounds. What does it sound like when your headstock snaps off in the middle of the 135th chorus of "House of the Rising Sun?" ("Uncle dad threw a half-empty beer bottle at me an' tol' me t'play some Ernest Tubb, 'bout the time the floor slapped me upside the head.") What did it sound like when the bridge splits in half while you're driving a screw midway through it - he left the strings on, no doubt - and you just shrug and yell; "mee-maw! Fetch the boat glue!" And leave the damn screw sticking out? ("Ah buttered that bolt real good and started to put another screw in the other end, but Judge Judy came on...") The reason I like these monstrosities is because of the careful planning and attention to detail it takes to repair an instrument and leave no trace that I've done so. I like showing them to you guys, here, because Alembic strives for perfection in a similar manner, to combine disparate elements together so that it seems they were never apart. And because I like laughing at morons. Especially the one writing this. Here's one of my all-time favorites. I could look at it for hours. I'm not sure if it's genius or idiocy - or both - but I think it probably sounds AWESOME. (If it works at all.) like putting your fist through a box of cornflakes, I imagine.  I love how everything wound up being off-center. Was it planned, or was he just wingin' it? | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Junior Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2014 |
^LOVE IT!^ Confession time - I too have covered a multitude of sins with nothing but a brown Sharpie pen. Doh! I always wanted to ask Keavin, (serialnumber12), does Ol'#12 ride in the trunk of that fine machine, or the backseat? | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 109 Registered: 2-2010 |
>>>>Only thing close to that I've seen is an old Vantage 335 type guitar (although it had a pointy-strat type headstock) which developed a loose jack...rather than the owner fishing the guts out through the f-hole, they decided to open up that corner of the guitar with a JIGSAW...yeah, really. They fixed the loose stuff then epoxied the section back in with match packets to fill the gaps...<<< That reminded me of Lloyd Loar's Vivi-tone instruments (he left Gibson to devote the rest of his life to electric instruments) The guitar originally had the pickup in a drawer that pulled out from the side. http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/ElectricInstruments/LoarInstruments/10811/LoarGuitar.html The same for his wildly popular electric violin: http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/ElectricInstruments/LoarInstruments/57/LoarElectricViolin.html I think it's a terrific idea. His "convertible" guitar bridge, where you can choose between full-acoustic, half-acoustic/half-electric or full-electric by flipping a switch, has never been duplicated, to my knowledge: "...The design offered a player the option of switching between electric and acoustic amplification, or combining both, with metal posts through the bridge that transfers vibrations from the strings to the bar-armature. With the posts raised, the bridge comes in contact with the soundboard for exclusively acoustic amplification; with the posts lowered to contact the metal bar-armature, both acoustic and electric amplification is engaged, and with the posts lowered completely, the bridge is lifted off of the soundboard and supported only by the bar-armature for exclusively electric amplification. ..." | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1949 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've seen pix & write-ups on several Viva-Tones, but never a side shot or mention of the electronics; that is just the height of groovosity! Peter | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1734 Registered: 6-2002 |
A DY-98 was just listed: ebay | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 747 Registered: 6-2014 |
Thought I'd revive this thread with another specimen from my vault of weird, but cool old stuff. This little guitar has been on loan to a co-worker to record with... he's been working on a finger-style guitar project featuring his own compositions using a variety of guitars. I have volunteered several of mine to the effort, but I am particularly glad to have this little fella back!     So, it's a George Washburn Model 1897, made almost certainly at the Lyons & Healy factory in Chicago around the turn of the century. (the *last* century that is...) From what I understand, the Model 1897 was replaced by Model 1905. The serial numbering system was particularly jacked-up on L & H or Washburn instruments, it’s like they just made up a numbering system that didn’t correspond to anything production-wise, and ran with it. Consequently, it’s near impossible to tell exactly when this guitar was made, but for what it's worth this one has the Model and Serial numbers stamped into the end of the headstock (familiar, huh?) and also penned onto a paper label inside.   As you can see, Lyon & Healy made fairly high quality instruments, not quite on par with say, C.F. Martin & Co., but you can clearly see this guitar was meant to be direct competition to Martin’s popular Style 1-21. Brazilian rosewood sides and back, with a spruce top, cedar neck, ebony appointments… even the purfling and trim are very similar. The biggest structural difference is inside – this guitar is braced laterally rather than X-braced, but even so, the work is meticulous and neat. Also note the carved bridge, with bone or ivory pins, and the higher quality tuning machines.     Maybe my favorite detail, check out this engraved inlay:    This little guitar’s story… I got it at the Old Fiddler’s Convention in Galax, Virginia probably 15 years ago… just a lucky find. It needed only some minor work to get it back to playing condition. No, it’s not extremely valuable, because the reality is that not many people play parlor guitars anymore, but what a totally cool little guitar in a well-preserved state. Don’t see many like it anymore. | ||
| peoplechipper
Senior Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 649 Registered: 2-2009 |
I have this old Harmony someone gave me. When I got it it had some horrible reddish finish on it and someone had cut the dovetail against the body and used a big-ass bolt to pull the neck back to lower the action...I could see it was all solid wood and thought it may be worth trying to save or at least I'd learn a lot trying. I removed the finish and redid in laquer, flattened out the bellied-up top, filled in the HUGE divots in the fretboard (whoever that cowboy was, I pity the wife-rough!) So I intended to remove the bolt and replace with a dowel to fill the hole and stabilize the neck...until my drill hit another dowel inside the neck heel which EXPLODED the heel and dovetail, breaking the fretboard at the 15th...so neck off, carved a new heel with dovetail and set the neck...alas, it still only would play cowboy chords as the action was still high even after shaving the bridge. I did however learn a lot in so doing this guitar and one day I might actually make it playable by 'slipping the block' as I ain't gonna touch that neck! it's hanging on a wall now, maybe one day...Tony |
